Why are there so many young women with low self-confidence

I am a friend

Where are we going wrong??

There are 100's of posts on Boards.ie alone where girls are putting themselves, over and over again, in situations where they are handing over their power to guys..

I have been around the block a few times :rolleyes: and it just breaks why heart to see girls, whose partners have told them they dont want them, chasing these guys, sleeping with them when they click their fingers and worse again those who have been cheated on, just accepting it...

I am proud but I also am confident enough to know that if people treat me badly that sooner or later they will be removed from my life....

How do we show young women that they deserve more than chasing a guy who doesnt want to know / only wants to use them for sex or also 'forgiving' an unrepentent cheating partner....

fghijkl

Personally i think it's because everywhere women look, tv, film, celebrities, etc etc everything revolves around relationships, women secretly lusting after the hot man next door, every bloody plot line ends up with her getting said guy. Celebrities breaking up with other celebrities and immediately jumping from one relationship to the next.

Like it or not society deems that women must marry a man by a certain age, or there is something wrong with them. Being in a relationship means they're "of value" it's like a status thing. Being single is seen as a negative thing, Heaven forbid a woman would actually want to be single:rolleyes:

But honestly i think the biggest driving force of this 'women must be in a relationship' attitude is other women tbh especially other women in relationships. As a single woman it's most definitely other women who put the pressure on, trying to set you up with their single friends, constantly asking if you're seeing anyone and almost pitying you if you say you're not None of my male friends would ever ask me if i was seeing someone.

I think a lot of women eventually just buy into it and cave in and stay in awful relationships out of fear being alone or seen as being seen as 'the one who can't get a boyfriend'. It's a vicious cycle, these women stay in bad relationships for above reasons and put pressure on their single friends to conform because they resent their friends being happy while single as it doesn't compute by their logic, these friends then start to question their reasons for being single, is it because i'm unloveable etc etc, cave in and the cycle starts again.

How do we show young women that they deserve more than chasing a guy who doesnt want to know / only wants to use them for sex or also 'forgiving' an unrepentent cheating partner....

There are 100's of posts on Boards.ie alone where girls are putting themselves, over and over again, in situations where they are handing over their power to guys..

In honesty though there are just as many secure woman both single and in secure proper loving relationships, the difference is that you don't hear about these secure people because, well they're confident in their lives and don't need to inflict their views on other people (women). The insecure women are therefore unfortunately being influenced by their insecure friends/family and willing to accept crappy relationships because their peer group accept crappy relationships...it's all they know.

Even among my own friends, if one is having relationship troubles (guy cheated on her whatever) my friends in the healthy relationships (and me) will tell her look you're worth more than this dump him etc etc, bit the friends in unhealthy relationships (and those 'bitter' singletons) will automatically stick to the 'give him one more chance he's sorry, it was a drunken mistake blah blah' or the 'i forgave my bf when he cheated and we've moved on, i trust him, we're happy now' (even though this is very rarely true) and it's easier for the friend to heed the second type of advice (it takes a stonger person to walk away than stay) as the advice from the secure people is seen as patronising or it's seen as" easy for them to say they're not single"**

** This post contains HUGE generalisations, and is based only on personal experience.

Mc Kenzie

In my opinionthe only wway you learn is to meke these mistakes and if you dont learn the first time it will keep happening untill you do.

I know that i wont maake the same mistake again.

Eve_Dublin

fghijkl wrote: »

But honestly i think the biggest driving force of this 'women must be in a relationship' attitude is other women tbh especially other women in relationships. As a single woman it's most definitely other women who put the pressure on, trying to set you up with their single friends, constantly asking if you're seeing anyone and almost pitying you if you say you're not None of my male friends would ever ask me if i was seeing someone.

I think a lot of women eventually just buy into it and cave in and stay in awful relationships out of fear being alone or seen as being seen as 'the one who can't get a boyfriend'. It's a vicious cycle, these women stay in bad relationships for above reasons and put pressure on their single friends to conform because they resent their friends being happy while single as it doesn't compute by their logic, these friends then start to question their reasons for being single, is it because i'm unloveable etc etc, cave in and the cycle starts again..

Yep. This has a huge amount to do with it, unfortunately. Particularly for younger women. I've got a friend over here who seems to be in a very happy relationship and was constantly at me about finding someone, "Oh well...you'll find someone soon" when I never even expressed the desire to find someone. I've a friend at home in Ireland who ends every email with, "How the love life?" and it grates on me. I was perfectly happy single, probably having a better time than most but for some reason they didn't like that. I've recently started seeing someone and grand, I'm personally happy with the situation (no high hopes because of previous experiences). If it doesn't work out, fine. However, if it didn't work out, the worst part would be telling certain friends who think I've finally met "The One" when I've only known him a few months. I feel they'd be wondering what the hell was wrong with me when they can't accept that I was truly happy when single just because they weren't.

I imagine it's a lot worse for younger women although that's not how it was with my friends. I never cared whether I had a boyfriend or not...it seems as if it's getting worse.

Malari

I haven't noticed this at all. Are you saying this is a phenomenon that is currently more prevalent OP?

EverEvolving

I am a friend wrote: »

How do we show young women that they deserve more than chasing a guy who doesnt want to know / only wants to use them for sex or also 'forgiving' an unrepentent cheating partner....

I think in a lot of situations individuals need to learn from their own mistakes. It's one of life’s tough lessons and me and quite a few of my friends have been though it and came out the other end, hopefully not too resentful!

I guess the only thing that could be done per say is to ensure young girls are raised so they have a high sense of value and self worth and know how to handle self esteem issues so then if these situations do arise they are more well equipped to deal with them.

monkeerina

Honestly? I don't believe so. I'm am 99% sure that 99% of men have cheated/would cheat if given the opportunity, no matter how much they love and adore their partner.

Anyone got any contradictory evidence/opinions? Nearly ever single bf/husband I've ever known or heard of, even if they seemed completely 'devoted' to their gf/wife has cheated at some point, or has tried to. I seriously wish I was a lesbian.

And yes I completely agree with OP, so many women do have low self-confidence. Although to be fair at the end of the day, as I've said it really is a choice between a dickhead and a worse dickhead.

Edit: okay I completely withdraw the lesbian comment, it was a sporadic stupid and ignorant comment. Although I wouldn't mind trying for other reasons completely unrelated to trust issues

Malari

monkeerina wrote: »

Honestly? I don't believe so. I'm am 99% sure that 99% of men have cheated/would cheat if given the opportunity, no matter how much they love and adore their partner.

Anyone got any contradictory evidence/opinions? Nearly ever single bf/husband I've ever known or heard of, even if they seemed completely 'devoted' to their gf/wife has cheated at some point, or has tried to. I seriously wish I was a lesbian.

Yes, I have a contradictory opinion. I can only think of two people I've known my entire life who have definitely cheated on their partner (ie; I've seen them with someone else) and one of them was a girl. A repeat offender in fact.

Edit to your edit: That's a horrible, warped opinion you have of men.

Dilynnio

I think it is more an issue of low self esteem than low self confidence.

Self esteem is your opinion of yourself. High self esteem is a good opinion of yourself and low self esteem is a bad opinion of yourself.

Self esteem depends on many issues such as:
- how you see yourself
-are you comparing yourself to others
-what do you think of your social status
-can you make your own decisions

Low self esteem comes from a poor self image.

Self confidence on the other hand is having belief in ones own ability and being self assured about things that you do.

So I think in order to have high self confidence a person needs to work on their self esteem and to become more comfortable of themselves and to love and respect themselves more.

I dont think it is their self confidence it is their self esteem issues.

Self esteem is constantly being mixed up with self confidence and this is where the problem arises.

A person can go out and get drunk and then appear to have loads of confidence but still have a low opinion of themselves therefore just keep on repeating the same behaviour that they know and are comfortable with.

That's my input for you! Hope it helps

monkeerina

Malari wrote: »

Yes, I have a contradictory opinion. I can only think of two people I've known my entire life who have definitely cheated on their partner (ie; I've seen them with someone else) and one of them was a girl. A repeat offender in fact.

Edit to your edit: That's a horrible, warped opinion you have of men.

I have never even seen people cheating on their partner (except when I was younger, people in immature relationships) but I know that it happens. Do you honestly believe that most other relationships you know of have always been 100% faithful and that neither party, no matter how drunk or horny, would refuse sex on a plate with an attractive person if they knew/thought they'd never be caught? Human beings are not programmed to be monogamous, and ultimately, yes, I do believe that in extreme circumstances the most educated and 'trustworthy' people will revert to animal desires and instinct. I sincerely believe that you're very naive. Perhaps the 99% of men is exaggerated but over a life-time (a man's lifetime) it is certainly not far from 90%. At the very least.

monkeerina

Dilynnio wrote: »

Self esteem is constantly being mixed up with self confidence and this is where the problem arises.

So so true. And I used self-confidence having known the above. Doh!

Irish Fire

It's that bloody scrawney plastic Cheryl Clole types protrayed on the T.V. everyday of the week!! God be with the days you'd turn on the T.V. and see real women instead of these walking talking barbie style dolls!!!!

Jesus I wonder sometimes if I was sharing the bed with one of these women if I rolled over in the middle of the night would I kill them?

BRING BACK REAL WOMEN WITH REAL FIGURES.

Malari

monkeerina wrote: »

I have never even seen people cheating on their partner (except when I was younger, people in immature relationships) but I know that it happens. Do you honestly believe that most other relationships you know of have always been 100% faithful and that neither party, no matter how drunk or horny, would refuse sex on a plate with an attractive member of the opposite sex if they knew/thought they'd never be caught? Human beings are not programmed to be monogamous, and ultimately, yes, I do believe that in extreme circumstances the most educated and 'trustworthy' people will revert to animal desires and instinct. I sincerely believe that you're very naive. Perhaps the 99% of men is exaggerated but over a life-time the it is certainly not far from 90%. At the very least.

Having the potential or inclination to cheat is not cheating! I can only judge relationships on what I know has happened, not the extreme scenario you propose above. I didn't say that if I never witnessed cheating it didn't happen, but you are doing the opposite - assuming that everyone either has or will cheat. I don't think that's healthy or realistic.

ger vallely

From a very young age we are conditioned to strive for the perfect life. As a playschool teacher I read alot of stories to the little ones. Most are geared towards finding prince charming and settling down with him for life. Cinderella(also makes us unsure of fellow women!), Rapunzel, Snow White- they all chase after the guy. There are not too many kids stories out there that suggest a happy, fullfilling single life. The early years are our foundation years, though and identity forming. It is so important to reinforce ones own strengths and self esteem and confidence. Also many of my age were mothered by fairly strict catholics. This brought it's own sense of shame and female put down. sure we didn't stand a chance!!Years ago, generally speaking, the women put up and shut up.They were to be greatful for what they had. Obviously there were exceptions. Those scars will take time, help and trusting to overcome. Maybe.

monkeerina

Malari wrote: »

Having the potential or inclination to cheat is not cheating! I can only judge relationships on what I know has happened, not the extreme scenario you propose above. I didn't say that if I never witnessed cheating it didn't happen, but you are doing the opposite - assuming that everyone either has or will cheat. I don't think that's healthy or realistic.

I didn't talk about having an inclination or the potential to cheat. Yes, obviously the potential for an act to happen has to be there for the act to occur. What I am saying is that if the opportunity presents itself that over 90% of men will act on it.

I am a realist. It helps to be pragmatic about the reality of what can, and often does, happen. So many women are living in the clouds and have the Disney fairy-tale view of relationships which, unfortunately, very rarely exists. Due to this view and the Catholic church's influence in this country many people have turned a blind eye to cheating and to this day it is rarely spoken about openly in society, and, as the OP has pointed out, women simply ignore/let men in their lives away with it.

fghijkl

I have never even seen people cheating on their partner (except when I was younger, people in immature relationships) but I know that it happens. Do you honestly believe that most other relationships you know of have always been 100% faithful and that neither party, no matter how drunk or horny, would refuse sex on a plate with an attractive member of the opposite sex if they knew/thought they'd never be caught? Human beings are not programmed to be monogamous, and ultimately, yes, I do believe that in extreme circumstances the most educated and 'trustworthy' people will revert to animal desires and instinct. I sincerely believe that you're very naive. Perhaps the 99% of men is exaggerated but over a life-time the it is certainly not far from 90%. At the very least.

You see this is the very attitude that leads to women staying in bad relationships and allowing themselves to be treated badly.

I'm not going to argue with your view on men because it's obviously not going to make you change your opinion (there's clearly a lot of baggage there) but surfice to say i don't agree with it. At all.

But i think your post really highlights the point the OP was trying to make. Even if you truly believe 90%/99% of men are sex driven, primal beings with no morals... is that a reason to stay with a man who cheats on you/treats you badly?? Surely if a woman loved herself enough and had enough self worth, she'd rather hold out and wait for that 10%/1% of men who would treat her the way she deserved to be treated? (presuming she wanted a relationship in the first place)

Even if a woman believes all men are cheaters/liars whatever, that still doesn't mean she has to accept it in a relationship. She has the choice to walk away.

It's that bloody scrawney plastic Cheryl Clole types protrayed on the T.V. everyday of the week!! God be with the days you'd turn on the T.V. and see real women instead of these walking talking barbie style dolls!!!!

I think it has very little to do with looks tbh, women of all shapes and sizes stay in bad relationships. And even cheryl cole dumped her husband who cheated on her...eventually...

gargleblaster

It seems to me that this is most often caused by the environment the girls grew up in, more specifically whether they saw examples of healthy relationships or not. If not, then they are more likely to accept the kind of thing they saw growing up as normal.

There is also the matter of expectations. If someone internalizes messages which portray men as being unhappy to be tied down in a relationship, always eyeing and fantasizing about being with other women, etc. - if someone adopts that mindset as being the norm, then it might not seem that bad to them that their partner acts in ways which conform to those kinds of messages. It would still hurt and some of them would still complain, but others would simply accept it as the status quo, and go around with the opinion that all men cheat (or don't help around the house, or don't help with child rearing, or whatever the case may be) and that's just the way it is.

This attitude was fairly common in the past, and it still is very common in some cultures. When you talk about women handing over their power, keep in mind that that power has only been theirs to hand over for a very short span of time, historically speaking.

fghijkl wrote: »

You see this is the very attitude that leads to women staying in bad relationships and allowing themselves to be treated badly.

Exactly. If it is the norm, why would they expect to find the supposedly extremely rare exception?

monkeerina

fghijkl wrote: »

You see this is the very attitude that leads to women staying in bad relationships and allowing themselves to be treated badly.

I'm not going to argue with your view on men because it's obviously not going to make you change your opinion (there's clearly a lot of baggage there) but surfice to say i don't agree with it. At all.

But i think your post really highlights the point the OP was trying to make. Even if you truly believe 90%/99% of men are sex driven, primal beings with no morals... is that a reason to stay with a man who cheats on you/treats you badly?? Surely if a woman loved herself enough and had enough self worth, she'd rather hold out and wait for that 10%/1% of men who would treat her the way she deserved to be treated? (presuming she wanted a relationship in the first place)

Even if a woman believes all men are cheaters/liars whatever, that still doesn't mean she has to accept it in a relationship.

I never said I would consider it a reason to stay with a man. Certainly from my perspective, any guy who cheated on me would never be given a second chance. I'm merely pointing out why many women do end up staying with these men, and shedding more light on what the OP said.

And yes, I am holding out for the 10%/1%, as I know I'm worth it

rainbow kirby

monkeerina wrote: »

Honestly? I don't believe so. I'm am 99% sure that 99% of men have cheated/would cheat if given the opportunity, no matter how much they love and adore their partner.

Anyone got any contradictory evidence/opinions? Nearly ever single bf/husband I've ever known or heard of, even if they seemed completely 'devoted' to their gf/wife has cheated at some point, or has tried to. I seriously wish I was a lesbian.

And yes I completely agree with OP, so many women do have low self-confidence. Although to be fair at the end of the day, as I've said it really is a choice between a dickhead and a worse dickhead.

Edit: okay I completely withdraw the lesbian comment, it was a sporadic stupid and ignorant comment. Although I wouldn't mind trying for other reasons completely unrelated to trust issues

Monkeerina - this sort of generalization falls below the standard of posting expected in this forum. Please read the charter.

fghijkl

monkeerina wrote: »

I never said I would consider it a reason to stay with a man. Certainly from my perspective, any guy who cheated on me would never be given a second chance. I'm merely pointing out why many women do end up staying with these men, and shedding more light on what the OP said.

And yes, I am holding out for the 10%/1%, as I know I'm worth it

glad to hear it:)

but do you see how a strongly "men are cheaters" attitude like you've just displayed can have a huge influence on the other women in your life?

sometimes when all women hear from their friends/sisters/mother is this "men are ba**ards" attitude it makes these women more likely to accept staying with these men.

If more women instead chose to focus on the 'good' men they know that are out there (however few they may chose to believe) instead of the 'bad' men they know are out there women would be less inclined to accept being treated badly.

monkeerina

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Monkeerina - this sort of generalization falls below the standard of posting expected in this forum. Please read the charter.

I gave a percentage! I never said that all men would cheat, just expressed my view and opinion, from my experience (as I stated in the post) that 90% of them would if given the opportunity. Sorry, the title was probably a little emotive. And perhaps I should have mentioned the 50% approx of women who might do the same.

monkeerina

fghijkl wrote: »

glad to hear it:)

but do you see how a strongly "men are cheaters" attitude like you've just displayed can have a huge influence on the other women in your life?

sometimes when all women hear from their friends/sisters/mother is this "men are ba**ards" attitude it makes these women more likely to accept staying with these men.

If more women instead chose to focus on the 'good' men they know that are out there (however few they may chose to believe) instead of the 'bad' men they know are out there women would be less inclined to accept being treated badly.

Knowing the reality/worst outcome makes me more cautious. I obviously have a different way of looking at things than most people (ok fine, I'm a bit of a pessimist) but I am speaking from experience - mainly people I've known as I myself have been relatively lucky, something I attribute to my cautious attitude.

I do get your point though - women with low self-esteem might be more likely to settle if they genuinely thought that there was nothing better out there.

Insect Overlord

monkeerina wrote: »

I gave a percentage! I never said that all men would cheat, just expressed my view and opinion, from my experience (as I stated in the post) that 90% of them would if given the opportunity. Sorry, the title was probably a little emotive. And perhaps I should have mentioned the 50% approx of women who might do the same.

I would love to know where you came up with the percentages you're using here... Hint: your imagination doesn't count.

monkeerina

monkeerina wrote: »

I gave a percentage! I never said that all men would cheat, just expressed my view and opinion, from my experience (as I stated in the post) that 90% of them would if given the opportunity. Sorry, the title was probably a little emotive. And perhaps I should have mentioned the 50% approx of women who might do the same.

Women are as likely to cheat as men are.

monkeerina

Insect Overlord wrote: »

I would love to know where you came up with the percentages you're using here... Hint: your imagination doesn't count.

In fairness this entire thread is based upon a generalization. And you're right, I have not done a statistical analysis. Stats are not from my imagination though, they're rough approximations based on personal experience.

monkeerina

Deleted User wrote: »

Women are as likely to cheat as men are.

I believe they've an equal inclination to do so, but that when it comes down to the act itself are less likely to due to the way society is structured and the way in which men and relationships are presented to us from an early age as alluded to by another poster

Silverfish

Deleted User wrote: »

Women are as likely to cheat as men are.

A mod has already dealt with the post, so can we avoid turning this thread into a debate on who is more likely or just as likely to cheat.

Thanks.

greengiant09

I am a friend wrote: »

Where are we going wrong??

There are 100's of posts on Boards.ie alone where girls are putting themselves, over and over again, in situations where they are handing over their power to guys..

I have been around the block a few times :rolleyes: and it just breaks why heart to see girls, whose partners have told them they dont want them, chasing these guys, sleeping with them when they click their fingers and worse again those who have been cheated on, just accepting it...

I am proud but I also am confident enough to know that if people treat me badly that sooner or later they will be removed from my life....

How do we show young women that they deserve more than chasing a guy who doesnt want to know / only wants to use them for sex or also 'forgiving' an unrepentent cheating partner....

i completely agree with your post. i have thought the same thing myself and i'm a male. it seems to be very prevalent these days and i have come across it regularly enough.

i'm not sure why this occurs so much....but a lot of the theories mentioned by other posters probably explain a lot why.

i do disagree with the poster who tried to shift the blame on men being bastards theory. that's really just a cop out....i know plenty of women who are strong and confident and would not put up with the crap that other women do......

milkycoffey

monkeerina wrote: »

In fairness this entire thread is based upon a generalization. And you're right, I have not done a statistical analysis. Stats are not from my imagination though, they're rough approximations based on personal experience.

So, essentially, it is just a dressed up "All men are b**tards" view?

I hadn't realised people still though like that beyond the angsty teenage years.

Ickle Magoo

milkycoffey, please note that monkeerina has already been warned against making lazy generalisations and fantastical statistical claims.

Can we keep things on topic please - this thread isn't about one poster and their extreme views on men.

I am a friend

I think this thread has really gone off on a tangent with the whole focus on cheating...

Some men cheat, some women cheat and most dont....

The problem as I see it is that the 'rules of engagement' have changed. When I was starting dating, my scene was not to sleep around. There is nothing wrong with that if you are ABLE FOR IT but a lot of posts Ive seen are from girls who have slept with guys early on and now they are confused about the relationship / if he likes her/ where its going etc

I guess life was much simpler way back when. If a guy wanted to talk to you he had to call you so no confusing texts... Sleeping around was not such a badge of honour and there was not the same pressure on girls / guys to jump into bed early and again there was very little living together.. I guess I think a lot of young couples want to grow up very early and are living together very young. A lot can handle it but it seems a lot cant... People are acting all 'married couple' without the security a mature relationship, between 2 experienced adult can bring...

I am not trying to sound like a granny or patronise people but I think the changed 'rules' can leave people (male and female) not really understanding where relationships are at and whats expected of them and maybe this is the basis of the problem.

monkeerina

greengiant09 wrote: »

i do disagree with the poster who tried to shift the blame on men being bastards theory. that's really just a cop out....i know plenty of women who are strong and confident and would not put up with the crap that other women do......

That would be me. I did not say men were bastards, nor think the same. Many many men (and women) will cheat though. Women (and men) need to be aware of this and speak about cheating when it when it happens and not stand for it, unlike what has been happening in Ireland for many years where many marriages and relationships often continue despite an affair due to the fact that keeping a relationship going for the sake of having the one partner for life is often seen as the way to go about things and what must be done in order for one to fit into society.

greengiant09

monkeerina wrote: »

That would be me. I did not say men were bastards, nor think the same. Many many men (and women) will cheat though. Women (and men) need to be aware of this and speak about cheating when it when it happens and not stand for it, unlike what has been happening in Ireland for many years where many marriages and relationships often continue despite an affair due to the fact that keeping a relationship going for the sake of having the one partner for life is often seen as the way to go about things and what must be done in order for one to fit into society.

i don't think you're really getting to the heart of the problem. this isn't simply just about people cheating on one another.....it goes a lot deeper than that.

monkeerina

greengiant09 wrote: »

i don't think you're really getting to the heart of the problem. this isn't simply just about people cheating on one another.....it goes a lot deeper than that.

A person's self-esteem is a measure of how big they perceive the gap between their self-image and ideal-self to be. It's obviously fairly complex, but ultimately the society in which we live has a huge impact on this. Therefore if we all expect people to be inherently monogamous, as is not the case but is what is projected by society, there is a very real danger that we may get very hurt in the process due to the widening of this gap if we do not find our perfect 'prince charming'. This is what contributes to low self-esteem and the vicious cycle as life does not live up to our (unrealistic) self-ideal.

Unfortunately cheating is rampant and tolerated by many people in our society, so what I am saying is that we need to be more aware of it, and it needs to be challenged and discussed. I believe that many Irish women (and possibly Irish men?) are overly tolerant of it.

Stheno

monkeerina wrote: »

Unfortunately cheating is rampant and tolerated by many people in our society, so what I am saying is that we need to be more aware of it, and it needs to be challenged and discussed. I believe that many Irish women (and possibly Irish men?) are overly tolerant of it.

Monkeerina,

You've already been asked once in this thread to lay off the sweeping generalisations, and read the charter. Please take the time to read the charter before posting again in this thread.

Thank you.

gargleblaster

I am a friend wrote: »

I think this thread has really gone off on a tangent with the whole focus on cheating...

Some men cheat, some women cheat and most dont....

The problem as I see it is that the 'rules of engagement' have changed. When I was starting dating, my scene was not to sleep around. There is nothing wrong with that if you are ABLE FOR IT but a lot of posts Ive seen are from girls who have slept with guys early on and now they are confused about the relationship / if he likes her/ where its going etc

I guess life was much simpler way back when. If a guy wanted to talk to you he had to call you so no confusing texts... Sleeping around was not such a badge of honour and there was not the same pressure on girls / guys to jump into bed early and again there was very little living together.. I guess I think a lot of young couples want to grow up very early and are living together very young. A lot can handle it but it seems a lot cant... People are acting all 'married couple' without the security a mature relationship, between 2 experienced adult can bring...

I am not trying to sound like a granny or patronise people but I think the changed 'rules' can leave people (male and female) not really understanding where relationships are at and whats expected of them and maybe this is the basis of the problem.

I see what you're saying, but this wouldn't explain why it seems to be mostly women who are desperate to find a partner or stay with one, despite the poor quality of the relationship.

I think fghijkl and ger vallely really summed it up well. Relationships and having a family are the two penultimate goals for women as defined by society from very early on, and that's in addition to our instinctive drive to procreate.

After thinking about what fghijkl said, it really has hit home. Women often put so much pressure on each other to find a man. I wonder why that is. I have been thinking about conversations I've had, and from my experience, it sometimes seems almost to be a competitive thing.

ppink

I dont think it is just young women. I think a lot of women stayed with men over the years through fear of leaving. I know even in my family several aunts etc who put up with awful things.

Personally speaking when I was growing up and reached the age of 13/14, when girls are very sensitive about their development, the lads around my area pretty much constantly commented on my appearance. They were very fast to tell me "god you've put on a LOAD of weight" or your legs are ok but your XYZ are awful......all such thing like that. They would blatently tell you they preferred your friend to you etc etc.

If others experienced as I did then I have no wonder they have little self esteem. combine this with the percieved necessity to have a relationship and you may get people "settling" for what they can as deep inside they think they may never get any better.

Logical Fallacy

A lot of the time it can be as simple as people put up with stuff in an effort to gloss over it. Being cheated on is neither sought after nor pleasant...when the act itself occurs you might find yourself in a place where trying to move on from it and forgive becomes the better option to ending a relationship because then you have to explain to people why it's over, what went wrong etc etc.

No one wants to be the "cheated on" person simply because there can be a subconscious thought that you were unable to make your partner happy. Kind of sucks when your mind does that to you but hey, that's the human mind for ya.

There is also the old saying "love is blind". It my experience you can change that to "love is stupid". It's a very tempting option to just write off indiscretions as a once off thing, that they were drunk or lonely or you had just had a fight or whatever the offered excuse will be...that the very fact that you are in love can sometimes offer it's own validity.

And that's only relationship mechanics.

Low self esteem is a whole other ball game encompassing society, family, culture and the media.

Jack B. Badd

gargleblaster wrote: »

I see what you're saying, but this wouldn't explain why it seems to be mostly women who are desperate to find a partner or stay with one, despite the poor quality of the relationship.

Maybe I'm being a bit dim but how is this relationship issue (for want of a better way of putting it) focused primarily on women. The vast majority of relationships involve one woman & one man. If there are a large number of new relationships forming, does that not indicate the willingness of on the part of both the man & woman? Equally if both parties choose to remain in a relationship of poor quality, is that not the decision of both the man & the woman? It's pretty difficult to believe that a relationship can only be of poor quality for one of the participants but fine for the other, in the same way as it's difficult to believe that large numbers of men are being kept in these relationships against their will by their women.

Maybe women are more vocal about wanting to be in a relationship than their male counterparts, but if bad relationship choices are being made, it seems silly to lay it at the feet of roughly 50% of the people involved.

I am a friend

I put emphasis on the women's side of things as the thread is in the Ladies Lounge...

Tonto86

monkeerina wrote: »

Honestly? I don't believe so. I'm am 99% sure that 99% of men have cheated/would cheat if given the opportunity, no matter how much they love and adore their partner.

Anyone got any contradictory evidence/opinions? Nearly ever single bf/husband I've ever known or heard of, even if they seemed completely 'devoted' to their gf/wife has cheated at some point, or has tried to. I seriously wish I was a lesbian.

And yes I completely agree with OP, so many women do have low self-confidence. Although to be fair at the end of the day, as I've said it really is a choice between a dickhead and a worse dickhead.

Edit: okay I completely withdraw the lesbian comment, it was a sporadic stupid and ignorant comment. Although I wouldn't mind trying for other reasons completely unrelated to trust issues

I'm a man that's in a long term relationship that has never cheated. I was in another relationship for 5 years and I didn't cheat there either, I must be one in a million, am I?

In general, the above attitude is wrong and sexist.

I also don't recall ever letting my penis call the shots.... your post in general seems a bit irrational and angered, are you sure your vagina didn't write it?

Silverfish

Tonto86, the poster was already dealt with in relation to that post. If you have nothing to add to the topic, please don't post. If you have an issue with a post, report it. Please read the charter before posting.


This is the final warning to please keep this thread on-topic.

Ickle Magoo

Hmmm, I don't think Jack B. Badd was talking about the perspective, rather that a miserable relationship has two miserable parties staying put...

In saying that, I'd have to say I know of several relationships where he's happy and she gets a pretty miserable deal due to him suiting himself most of the time - and never stops moaning about it despite not wanting to change anything. Very frustrating.

On the general topic, I don't think it's just regarding relationships - when self-confidence or self-belief is lacking it sabotages not only their chance at happy, equal relationships, at education, in employment, friendships - every facet of life.

Tonto86

Silverfish wrote: »

Tonto86, the poster was already dealt with in relation to that post. If you have nothing to add to the topic, please don't post. If you have an issue with a post, report it. Please read the charter before posting.


This is the final warning to please keep this thread on-topic.

Sorry, didn't notice, just say her post and off in a hack.

Cheers :pac:

gargleblaster

Jack B. Badd wrote: »

Maybe I'm being a bit dim but how is this relationship issue (for want of a better way of putting it) focused primarily on women. The vast majority of relationships involve one woman & one man. If there are a large number of new relationships forming, does that not indicate the willingness of on the part of both the man & woman? Equally if both parties choose to remain in a relationship of poor quality, is that not the decision of both the man & the woman? It's pretty difficult to believe that a relationship can only be of poor quality for one of the participants but fine for the other, in the same way as it's difficult to believe that large numbers of men are being kept in these relationships against their will by their women.

Maybe women are more vocal about wanting to be in a relationship than their male counterparts, but if bad relationship choices are being made, it seems silly to lay it at the feet of roughly 50% of the people involved.

Sorry, you're right that it could apply to either party. I was simply staying in line with the topic as stated by the OP.

banshee_bones

Insect Overlord wrote: »

I would love to know where you came up with the percentages you're using here... Hint: your imagination doesn't count.

Don't you know? 69% of statistics are made up :pac:

I would be inclined to agree with the poster who said that the only way you learn is to make these mistakes yourself and if you dont learn the first time it will keep happening untill you do. The vicious circle.

Eventually the women in question (hopefully) will see a pattern and snap out of it, or at least someone close to them will and sit them down and tell them when they whine on about being in a shoddy relationship or accepting a never ending stream of crap, that theres a reason why it keeps happening, because they are seeking out the same type of person and repeat the pattern over and over again.

I also agree with the poster who said that alot of women stay in a rubbish relationship rather than be single and be "afflicted" by the "stigma" that is attached to it.

floutingmaxims

My friends are too hot, so my average looks rarely get a look in when it comes to the fellas. I need other friends

booboo88

I personally must have a sign on my forehead, invisible to me. "wierdos apply here"
i always kinda suffered with my self confidence, but im getting better, but i have given the wrong people a second chance in the post.


never again

Eve_Dublin

There seems to be much more than in my day. I got into a bit of a kerfuffle last night in After Hours (sorry ).....my temper got the better of me after hearing yet another rant about Irish women. But anyway. There seems to be a lot more miscommunication and outright contempt between the genders than I encountered back in my late teens, early twenties (the 90s, early 00s). There's threads up here about plastic surgury and it seems to be the young women who want it the most. That never even crossed my mind back then and it still doesn't now in my early 30s. Why would a woman in her early 20s want botox? What's going on? What's happening? Botox is for aging women...women in their early 20s believe they're aging? It'll just keep spiralling like this but when will it end? It needs to be addressed. I genuinely pity young people nowadays (both men and women). Seems like there's so much pressure on them and I think the root of the pressure stems from adult media. We're to blame, not their peers. That's what I reckon anyway.

Dudess

fghijkl wrote: »

I think a lot of women eventually just buy into it and cave in and stay in awful relationships out of fear being alone or seen as being seen as 'the one who can't get a boyfriend'.

The more I hear of stuff like this, the more I'd advocate being the square peg in a round hole and staying single/shagging around. :pac:

Nah, a loving relationship is wonderful - and something to be strived for - but a relationship where you're "kinda" into them just seems like hell IMO. And you want fire, passion (well I do anyway - maybe some people would rather gouge out their eyes? I dunno...) The latter generally dies down eventually, but if it's not there initially, I don't see the point tbh...

bget

I think the whole direction this thread has taken is precisely the problem.. Low self confidence or low self esteem in young women can be cause by so many different things but yet the only thing anyone here has focused on is relationships and cheating etc.. Can anyone tell me why that is?? Young women (and I am one myself) need to start putting themselves first and stop tying their self concept and self worth to their success (or lack thereof) with men but focus on being happy with themselves and address their own individual reasons for having low self esteem..

not sure how well I articulated my point here but I hope I have made some sense...