Abuse of position by Brian Hayes(FG)?

Ald

Today we've had our first ever Dáil éireann envelope to our house. In it was a letter from Brian Hayes to tell us our local bus route 54A would not be scrapped as was envisaged by Dublin Bus. In it Fine Gael's logo is prominantly displayed, as is Brian Hayes' Facebook and Twitter accounts. It's in colour too. This letter is to every household in the area. It would be thousands of houses.

In my opinion this is abuse of Ministerial office. The Dáil éireann envelope ensures people will open and take notice of this 'positive' decision. This could have been communicated much more effectively cost wise. It could have been delivered by a leaflet in black and white. Or, as I think would have been best, Dublin Bus could have delivered a leaflet with the proposed changes, which in the letter Brian Hayes says they will anyways.

So, to all you taxpayers out there are you happy your Minister is charging D.é. for his constituency advertising? I'm not. FG promised to stop this wastage of money...

P.S. Brain Hayes should go back for some English classes. In it he says: "Dublin Buses decision today is a victory for common sense and for maintaining a key bus service for the community." That should be "Dublin Bus's decision..." Brain and common sense could be used regarding use of your Ministerial position!

Im Only 71Kg

"Brian Hayes" brian.hayes@oireachtas.ie you can reach him here. i've sent him numerous emails,he will respond promptly.

Nijmegen

Though you may disagree in spirit, it is not a contravention of position to use Oireachtas stationary for this purpose. Indeed, the purpose of such stationary is to allow a member to communicate with their constituents.

He is, after all, a public representative. The trick is in quantifying where representing becomes electioneering - an incumbant has a big advantage over a newcomer as the incumbant gets a full term worth of state aid to communicate with constituents - something it's logical for a public representative to do - and only has to account for such support in election expenses when used in the four weeks preceeding an election.

Using Oireachtas stationary is not wrong. But the rethink might be in how the existing parties have sown up all advantages of state funding to incumbants.

later12

I agree with you OP, although I have a feeling that technically BH is entitled to issue communications in this way. Certainly, I received similar post from other Ministers in the past.

What I find intersting about this, is the point that parish pump politics is not restricted to rural Ireland. You get just as much parish pump politics in Dublin and Cork and Limerick, except in Dublin, Cork and Limerick, it is seen as acceptable.

I remember being at a political meeting in Dublin South East with John Gormley in attendance a while back. Gormley was a Minister at the time. Everybody in the room was outraged at some parish pump/ independent Lowry-esque deal that had just been done and were all very disparaging of their rural cousins and of parish pump politics. And yet the only thing anybody could talk to Gormley about was his position on St Lukes hospital and the local glass bottle factory, and what was he going to do about these now that he was their local Minister? Nobody seemed to have found this in the least contradictory.

Ald

@I'm Only 71Kg, I have written to Brian Hayes. Here is my email and his response. Says it all really regarding F.G. and wastage - they don't see it as wastage therefore it is not wastage... Brian misses the point in my letter. I wanted to make the point that the mission of informing the area as to bus changes could have been done by Dublin Bus and only one lowcost leaflet was necessary. He is missing the bigger picture.

My letter:

Dear Minister,

I'd like to express my opinion about the use of your office to communicate the news of the retention of the 54A. I think it's an appauling waste of money that you colour printed and enveloped a letter to such effect from Dáil éireann. In the recent election your party made issue of such wastage and now you're doing worse as far as I can see. I never once got a letter from F.F. to similar effect (I'm not a FF supporter by the way). In an era of IMF/EU oversight I think it is actually quite stupid, forgive me for being so crass but that's how I see your action; stupid. I feel you could have had Dublin Bus make a subtle leaflet to notify of any changes at a very reasonable price.

I would like to know your thoughts on my issue with your wastage of money. Also, you might tell me if there is an authority I can complain to in Dáil éireann about this if I feel abuse of office has occured or if change with regards to this is needed.

Thanks for your time,
Templeogue Constituent.

Brian Hayes' Response:

****,

I'm sorry you think that. I am entitled to communicate with those
people who elect me. This was a very important issue in the community.
I have no authority to demand Dublin bus or anyone else to send
letters on their behalf. I reject your charge on wastage of public
money utterly.

Brian hayes td

Nijmegen

Ald wrote: »

@I'm Only 71Kg, I have written to Brian Hayes. Here is my email and his response. Says it all really regarding F.G. and wastage - they don't see it as wastage therefore it is not wastage... Brian misses the point in my letter. I wanted to make the point that the mission of informing the area as to bus changes could have been done by Dublin Bus and only one lowcost leaflet was necessary. He is missing the bigger picture.

My letter:


Brian Hayes' Response:

Whilst I do agree that incumbants get too much advantage from the state through such efforts, you are asking a fundamental question of public representation: How can a member of the Dail represent their people if they cannot communicate with them?

Ald

Nijmegen wrote: »

Whilst I do agree that incumbants get too much advantage from the state through such efforts, you are asking a fundamental question of public representation: How can a member of the Dail represent their people if they cannot communicate with them?

It's perfectly O.K. for communication between representative and constituents. But where is the balance reached on what issues need communicating? There's no communication when it comes to the important matters that create genuine anxiety such as guarantees on your savings or taxation policies to be implemented later this year. The manner in which this was communicated is what I have issue with. Colour printed, enveloped and postage paid for by D.é. only to tell us our bus service is being retained is excessive when Dublin Bus were going to communicate to us anyways. I feel this is an opportunity for Brain Hayes to get his name and F.G. logo on a good news story. I see it as a perfect example of what's wrong with F.G. and Irish politics.

Btw, he never alluded to any authority that I could raise the issue with in D.é. Is there any authority I could voice my opinion about his use of ministerial office?

RGDATA!

Ald,
lucky you didn't take him to task about his typo as your letter had an "appauling" one too!

seamus

Brian Hayes issues correspondence like this all the time on local issues important to an area.

I prefer this style to the absolute silence from FF TDs over the years who'd arrive at the door looking for a vote so they could disappear into the Dáil for another five years to do nothing.

The correspondence is aimed specifically at those residents involved rather than a scattergun approach of sending out a huge leaflet of all issues to all resident of his constituency. So for what it does, it minimises wastage.

You'd also be surprised how inexpensive such things are when you have access your own printing and mail facilities.

BehindTheScenes

I think you could change the topic to money wasted by politicians in general.

I was a member of the Labour Party (LP) a few years ago and still receive constituency letters, even though I'm currently not a member, with the gold harp and on a high quality piece of paper.

The letters I receive are of nothing important, usually just naming a place and time for meetings. Anything I am sent could be communicated by e-mail.

Now they are nothing on the scale of what Brian Hayes did but even still every member of LP must be at it.

If you want to save money you have to lead by example.

later12

@OP
If you want to make a complaint perhaps the best way to do it is through the Standards in Public Office Commission. You can find them online.

seamus wrote: »

Brian Hayes issues correspondence like this all the time on local issues important to an area.

I dont think anybody has a problem with that - the question is whether or not Hayes is using official stationery to issue Fine Gael headed leaflets which amount to advertising,and whether or not people feel this is appropriate behaviour for a Minister (who gets a far greater monthly allowance in this respect than a TD)

Surely a more balanced way to simply communicate a fact with everybody, in a way that would not be viewed as election expenditure, would be for the Minister to issue a headed letter from his department, not from FG.

You'd also be surprised how inexpensive such things are when you have access your own printing and mail facilities.

Not to mention not having to pay for leaflet drops, which can be very expensive. I suggest that is the reason that Minister Hayes has chosen this method of conveyance for his advertising.

Ald

Thanks for that link later10!

Official facilities should be used only for official purposes. Office holders should ensure that their use of officially provided facilities are designed to give the public value for money and to avoid any abuse of the privileges which, undoubtedly, are attached to office.

Interesting...

FreudianSlippers

Surely... SURELY we have more important things to be worried about than stationery? If it was hand-written on a loose leaf A4 I'm sure people would still find something to complain about.
God forbid he didn't tell them at all! :eek:


I'm no government waste supporter, but seriously: stationery?!

Ald

So, say this was delivered to 5000 households in the Templeogue/Tallaght area at 70 cents a pop (envelope, colour print & postage) that equals €3500. I would think it cost more.

I'm sorry but that's a ridiculous amount to be allowed spend on such a matter. And if it's a precedent who knows how many more might be sent in future by Brian Hayes, not to mention other Ministers. It quickly adds up to thousands upon thousands if you include wasteful letters as alluded to by BehindTheScenes. And remember it is high quality (has a water mark on it and a gold harp emblazoned on it).

FreudianSlippers

Ald wrote: »

So, say this was delivered to 5000 households in the Templeogue/Tallaght area at 70 cents a pop (envelope, colour print & postage) that equals €3500. I would think it cost more.

I'm sorry but that's a ridiculous amount to be allowed spend on such a matter. And if it's a precedent who knows how many more might be sent in future by Brian Hayes, not to mention other Ministers. It quickly adds up to thousands upon thousands if you include wasteful letters as alluded to by BehindTheScenes. And remember it is high quality (has a water mark on it and a gold harp emblazoned on it).

These are mass-produced for the Government. They're not special order one-off things.
If people are seriously worried about €3500 then we're in bigger shít than I thought.
It's less than a drop in the bucket tbh. Joe Duffy reactionary stuff IMO.

We have much more important stuff to worry about tbh.

Cookie_Monster

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I'm no government waste supporter, but seriously: stationery?!

Indeed, the real question is why he's wasting his and our time on petty local issues rather than national ones. There are dozens and dozens of councillors in Dublin to take care of that kind of thing already, do we really need TDs ignoring bigger issues to score local points?

later12

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

If people are seriously worried about €3500 then we're in bigger shít than I thought.

What is your point? Only be angry at one thing at a time?

It is perfectly reasonable for a local constituent to find this sort of ongoing expense (according to one poster) to be wasteful and unacceptable. Would you call yours a fair defense against, say, the allegedly forged mobile phone expenses claimed by Ivor Callely, which amounted to about 3,000 euro? Perhaps you should advise the DPP that this is of no importance, and to get on with pursuing his role in order of the financial gravity of files before his office and to ignore the file on Mr Callely post haste.

There is also the issue that this is a Minister treating his monthly envelope and stationery priveleges to issue what may simply amount to his own personal interests at his own parish pump. It is healthy, in my opinion, to remind Mr Hayes that this, too, is unacceptable.

InigoMontoya

Dear Templeogue Constituent,

People who throw around the word "stupid" should also know how to spell the word "appalling".

Regards,
Inigo Montoya

This is why I could never be a politician. :pac:

Nijmegen

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

These are mass-produced for the Government. They're not special order one-off things.
If people are seriously worried about €3500 then we're in bigger shít than I thought.
It's less than a drop in the bucket tbh. Joe Duffy reactionary stuff IMO.

We have much more important stuff to worry about tbh.

A change management expert will tell you that you start with fundamental behavioral issues if you want to solve the big issues afflicting an organisation.

In this sense, though I'm not strictly against this kind of communication, I don't feel that picking on behaviors that cost a few thousand euro is a bad idea.

Mind the pennies, and the pounds will mind themselves.

pog it

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

T
If people are seriously worried about €3500 then we're in bigger shít than I thought.

That's for sure. You might need to start looking at unemployment figures, the league of credit unions recent survey, etc. You're living in cloud cuckoo land and just because you or I may have a job ourselves does not excuse ignorance like that.

FreudianSlippers

pog it wrote: »

That's for sure. You might need to start looking at unemployment figures, the league of credit unions recent survey, etc. You're living in cloud cuckoo land and just because you or I may have a job ourselves does not excuse ignorance like that.

What? You think because they spend money on stationery in government there are less jobs out there for people? Don't even get me started on how irrelevant the comment about credit unions is

It appears to be a complete ignorance of economics that runs this country... how does that even add up in someone's head?

If anything, spending 3500quid on paper boosts the economy by employing more people to make and emboss special paper, more jobs, lower unemployment.

hardCopy

For me the important questions here are:

Did he lean on Dublin Bus to keep this route?

If YES, why is a Junior Minister for Public Sector Reform interfering in in the routing strategy of a bus company?

If NO, is he trying to claim credit for it?

pog it

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

What? You think because they spend money on stationery in government there are less jobs out there for people? Don't even get me started on how irrelevant the comment about credit unions is

It appears to be a complete ignorance of economics that runs this country... how does that even add up in someone's head?

If anything, spending 3500quid on paper boosts the economy by employing more people to make and emboss special paper, more jobs, lower unemployment.

This money is our money, you, me, everyone who pays taxes. I sure as hell would love to be paying less tax and spending that in the economy as I please rather than Brian Hayes taking that money and spending it in such a way as to help secure his next seat in the Dáil.

Seriously will you get real. It's about time Irish people got a sense of ownership over the monies being spent. If they did maybe we'd see a LITTLE bit more fury on the ground and more intelligent voting.

FreudianSlippers

Yes, 0.0035 euro less tax. Wohoo!

pog it

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Yes, 0.0035 euro less tax. Wohoo!

This is not a discussion solely about a one-off 3500 euro cost to the taxpayer by a TD to help himself get re-elected and thankfully you seem to be the only person here that doesn't get that.

Again, the issue is that this is our money and he is abusing it for his own means. If you want to see it in your narrow terms, then picture that particular 3500 euro as YOUR tax, tax that has been taken out of YOUR wages and tax YOU'VE paid on petrol prices, etc. Happy about it now?

Ald

I think you put it well Pog It. If this wastage is acceptable on that level what does that tell you about his way of thinking on larger capital expenditure? It's probably indicative of a general attitude problem. I don't know the cost of this stunt. I'm guessing it would cost a few grand but if every Minister is at it that is a lot of money. That would be a few jobs a year worth of money (a few families supported).

Also, I would like to know why Fine Gael's logo was allowed to be emblazoned across this communication. Should it not have had the Office of Minister more prominant than the party?

I would love if Brian Hayes might communicate to me how much he intends taking off welfare this year! That would help me much more budget for the year ahead...

I've always thought Brian Hayes to be slimmy and slippery. F.G. certainly won't get my vote in this area...

Dionysus

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Surely... SURELY we have more important things to be worried about than stationery? .... I'm no government waste supporter, but seriously: stationery?!

Perhaps you can make up a list of the issues which are worthy of being brought up, and which are not. How dare we all not give precisely the same emphasis to the issues which you deem worthy, and those issues alone.


This issue is obviously important on numerous levels. That you cannot appreciate it does not negate its importance for ethics in government office. I'm glad somebody is bringing such issues to our attention.

DrLHecters

Power does corrupt.
Just as can be seen here on boards. Of course the mods power is next to nothing as if they ban you all you have to do is switch off your modem for 10 mins and re-register. then you can continue your free speech.

pog it

Ald wrote: »

I've always thought Brian Hayes to be slimmy and slippery. F.G. certainly won't get my vote in this area...

Ald, this isn't directly related to Brian Hayes per se but by any chance did you see the interview Joseph O'Connor did on the Late Late Show (recently enough) after his 'Ghost Light' book was chosen by Unesco for World Literature day?

He said something very disturbing but which I believe also (and have reason to believe) about certain types of people being drawn to positions of power for certain reasons.. I don't want to say too much or insinuate too much here but we need to be really careful about people who seek and serve power. The ones who are driven by ego may be the best of them...

That's as much as I'm going to say.

Ald

Agreed Pog It. I realise that it's endemic in Irish Politics generally. Lowry comes straight to mind. I just have never gotten good vibes from Brian Hayes. Didn't see that interview. The point was that being driven by power and ego was good?

What really irritates me is that the political class only move when Joe Duffy takes on an issue. Why can't they take out the hedge clippers and clip anything that's surplus to requirements themselves? It's not just a good exercise when we're in dire straits but I think that would be a healthy attitude generally.

Get a Minister for Cutting Waste in there!

pog it

Ald wrote: »

Agreed Pog It. I realise that it's endemic in Irish Politics generally. Lowry comes straight to mind. I just have never gotten good vibes from Brian Hayes. Didn't see that interview. The point was that being driven by power and ego was good?

Wonder if it's still on RTE player? I'll have a look.

No. What I mean is that politicians can be motivated to be in politics for a number of reasons, ego, narcissism, etc. But there may be even more sinister motives behind why certain politicians (and I am not talking necessarily about Brian Hayes) seek a position of power. A position of power provides them with a sort of 'cover' per se, as in if you are on a pedestal, with a position of power, it's ironically a good place to be if you are hiding something.

It could be just a simple thing of hiding your sexuality (just an example), or out of insecurity. But it could be more

That said, I believe there to be a few downright genuine and truly good politicians in the Dáil also... but I have reservations about most of them based on their motivations for being there, ego being 1/10 on a scale of how bad those motivators are.

pog it

Can't find it on the RTE Player..

Ald

Not to worry! Thanks for looking anyways!

anymore

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

These are mass-produced for the Government. They're not special order one-off things.
If people are seriously worried about €3500 then we're in bigger shít than I thought.
It's less than a drop in the bucket tbh. Joe Duffy reactionary stuff IMO.

We have much more important stuff to worry about tbh.

This € 3,500 is money we do not have meaning that it has to be borrowed and the amount of the loan plus interest has to be repaid. We thought we elected FG because we thought that they understood this very basic principle ! That is one of the reasons we are in the situation we are, i.e the inability of politicians to apply simple logic.

pog it

anymore wrote: »

This € 3,500 is money we do not have meaning that it has to be borrowed and the amount of the loan plus interest has to be repaid. We thought we elected FG because we thought that they understood this very basic principle ! That is one of the reasons we are in the situation we are, i.e the inability of politicians to apply simple logic.

Every single thing a politician does is to ensure he gets elected and gets/keeps power. They have no interest in serving the country or the people: they want control, and they want power. The vast majority of them are very damaged and insecure people who enjoy manipulating people for their own ends.

Do not trust them. Always question their motives behind anything they say or do. Look at Gay Mitchell today apparently sticking it to the ECB. Sad thing is a lot of people will be taken in by it. That's how they manipulate.