Incentives to install Sky into existing apartment blocks

Slideshowbob

Anyone heard anything about Sky or their agents offering incentives to apartment management agents to get a common Sky dish installed in complexes?

I am amazed at the sudden enthusiasm of my management agent to encourage the installation when it takes ages for them to do anything else!

STB

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Anyone heard anything about Sky or their agents offering incentives to apartment management agents to get a common Sky dish installed in complexes?

I am amazed at the sudden enthusiasm of my management agent to encourage the installation when it takes ages for them to do anything else!

I would love to know who your management agents are. I had "an experience" in this area.

I had to fight hard to bring other people into the picture of what underhanded attempts were going on to evict a sat installer and a small maintenance contract in favour of Sky taking over who apparently offered a no yearly maintenance fee scenario for communal dishes! And the flipside was that everyone would of course be on pay only TV services.

I have posted in the past on the use of pay only TV services (beit UPC or Sky or Sky Conway) in multi-unit developments and the dangers of what people end up with (i''ll try and find the thread).

Slideshowbob

Thanks for getting in touch

Our case sounds a bit different to yours in that we already had UPC only cabled in since the development was complete

Not sure how this compares to your situation?

Obviously I won't be naming my agents name on here but perhaps we could pm?

homelink

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Anyone heard anything about Sky or their agents offering incentives to apartment management agents to get a common Sky dish installed in complexes?

I am amazed at the sudden enthusiasm of my management agent to encourage the installation when it takes ages for them to do anything else!

There is no incentive offered to management agents other than free installation.The system supplied is independent of whatever existing system is in place.

Hylus83

Maybe if the management agency had a sky shared dish system installed in one complex they manage, and it was successful/well received by tenants there, they then decided to carry out the same in the others. My management agency is PETRA and I had asked them about getting sky shared dish system in, a few months back. Thankfully they (for whatever reason) thought it was a good idea - possibly to avoid illegal dish erections &/or simply because Sky are the only provider that can offer a proper HD service in an age when a lot of ppl have flatscreen TV's.

Either way, I'm delighted & took great pleasure in telling UPC the reason I was cancelling my TV service was because their HD offering was abysma & a communal dish was installed in my complex!

Sponge Bob

Hylus83 wrote: »

Either way, I'm delighted & took great pleasure in telling UPC the reason I was cancelling my TV service was because their HD offering was abysma & a communal dish was installed in my complex!

In Galway a cowboy contracted to do a communal sky install broke all the UPC BB connections in the building. It took weeks to fix the problems this muppet caused. In addition there were no FTA channels for anyone the way it was done. You had to pay monthly for free channels.

Do not agree to the installation of a communal dish unless

1. You get to keep UPC broadband ( explicitly in writing from Management Company and explicitly in writing from the Agent with no speed restrictions.
2. You may receive free to air channels without paying more than a one off point(s) installation fee (detailed in advance) and with the maintenance element included in the management charges and detailed per annum. It should be no more than €5 - €10 per apartment per annum.

Never let Sky Conway near any building for any reason, they are utterly notorious.

Slideshowbob

homelink wrote: »

There is no incentive offered to management agents other than free installation.The system supplied is independent of whatever existing system is in place.

How can you be sure of this?

STB

homelink wrote: »

There is no incentive offered to management agents other than free installation.The system supplied is independent of whatever existing system is in place.

How do you know this ?

Okay lets forget about alleged brown paper bag scenarios (we will all wind up in trouble).

So what you are saying is that you are not aware of offers of no maintenance fees to management agents as an incentive to seal exclusive contacts in large multi unit developments where there is an existing independent satellite installation company and a rolling maintenance contract?

Threads like this exist for a reason Its a constant question. See can you spot the business people. Its regular discussion.

If you still arent convinced of the dangers of allowing Pay only companies exclusivity (thats all they want!) google Sky/NTL apartments and boards.ie.

Hylus83

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Do not agree to the installation of a communal dish unless

1. You get to keep UPC broadband ( explicitly in writing from Management Company and explicitly in writing from the Agent with no speed restrictions.
2. You may receive free to air channels without paying more than a one off point(s) installation fee (detailed in advance) and with the maintenance element included in the management charges and detailed per annum. It should be no more than €5 - €10 per apartment per annum.

Never let Sky Conway near any building for any reason, they are utterly notorious.

thanks - luckily it's not sky Conway and as I understand (because I also was worried about broadband) UPC broadband won't be affected! Hopefully!

delw

we had sky agents outside our complex other day,security spotted them & from what i gathered( from balcony) they were not allowed into bulding to knock on doors to enquire if people would be interested so i gave my details from balcony & told them i & others would be interested

Sponge Bob

Hylus83 wrote: »

thanks - luckily it's not sky Conway and as I understand (because I also was worried about broadband) UPC broadband won't be affected! Hopefully!

Did you get that in writing with the word "guarantee" in it ???? Tell the agent they are personally liable at a cost of €200 a day for any outage they cause.

bk

Things are changing for the better in management agency land.

In the past, it was a sellers market and there was massive demand for apartments. Also the management company was usually controlled by the developers and often worked in collusion with the management agents.

However now it is a buyers market and the management agencies are coming under increased pressure from the management companies to make the buildings as attractive as possible to possible buyers and tenants.

That means Sky and high speed BB (UPC) being available.

Also next year, a new law is coming into place that means developers have to turn control of management companies over to the owners of apartments. The management agents can then be replaced by the management company and given how badly some management companies have been treating the owners, they know they will be swiftly fired if they don't do what apartment owners want very quickly.

Slideshowbob

homelink wrote: »

There is no incentive offered to management agents other than free installation.The system supplied is independent of whatever existing system is in place.

I am not sure where you got your information or if you have an agenda on here

I decided to ask my management agent if he had been offered a financial incentive. In fairness to him he told me he had been offered some money if it goes ahead

The amount was only a fraction of what could be expected to be paid over a year to sky for their services.

homelink

STB wrote: »

How do you know this ?

Okay lets forget about alleged brown paper bag scenarios (we will all wind up in trouble).

So what you are saying is that you are not aware of offers of no maintenance fees to management agents as an incentive to seal exclusive contacts in large multi unit developments where there is an existing independent satellite installation company and a rolling maintenance contract?

Threads like this exist for a reason Its a constant question. See can you spot the business people. Its regular discussion.

If you still arent convinced of the dangers of allowing Pay only companies exclusivity (thats all they want!) google Sky/NTL apartments and boards.ie.

I think , with all due respect, you should read my post again. I don't think I could have been any clearer & if you read the article from the link you posted You will find that any implied exclusivity deals were with Magnet & UPC. As I stated The communal system offered by Sky is independent of any existing system already on site. Like it or not some people actually like Sky & like to have a choice.

STB

homelink wrote: »

I think , with all due respect, you should read my post again. I don't think I could have been any clearer & if you read the article from the link you posted You will find that any implied exclusivity deals were with Magnet & UPC. As I stated The communal system offered by Sky is independent of any existing system already on site. Like it or not some people actually like Sky & like to have a choice.

With all due respect I am fairly proficient in this whole area. It referred to ALL pay TV companies. I dont think I can be any clearer when I use the word ALL. Perhaps you should read this document:

Alleged anticompetitive practices in the provision of pay-TV infrastructure and services to apartment developments

It would also be clear to me that it would be in the interest of Sky (and UPC) to take over wholesale TV services in multi unit developments through whatver methods it takes. Effectively becoming the only show in town. It is the creation of a monopoly. Sky may describe it as business. However not all people in a development will want the "likeable" Sky (that did make me laugh btw), many may not be able to afford it, there are EU directives on the ability to receive FTA anyhow. Choice is very important.

As we all know, nearly all multi unit developments have a single cabling system into each apartment.

The communal system is therefore infrastructure. Sky maintaining an infrastructure independent of an existing one is not needed if a communal system is already in place. If individuals want Sky they just connect a box to their existing FTA Sat feed. Thats not what we are talking about though.

I dont have a problem with Sky offering these services in areas where monopolies already exist - eg NTL exclusivity. PAY TV exclusivity should not exist on its own though! I do have a problem whereby large multicorporations like Sky get or seek out exclusive service contracts to supply TV via satellite, using existing cable infrastructure. Lets face it, that puts Sky in a situation whereby they control the common area sat dishes and whether you geta service or not. No way.

I put a stop to such an advance by Sky in a development of which I am an owner, fairly quickly. Because one cabling system is quite common place in multiunit developments its an obvious temptation for pay tv companies to get their paws on it.

bk wrote: »

Also next year, a new law is coming into place that means developers have to turn control of management companies over to the owners of apartments. The management agents can then be replaced by the management company and given how badly some management companies have been treating the owners, they know they will be swiftly fired if they don't do what apartment owners want very quickly.

It came in in April BK (MUDS).

I wish I shared your enthusiasm for the new legislation.

Service Agents have in my opinion taken advantage of the lack of legislation in recent years. I have strrong suspicions of less than legit practices especially when it comes to awarding or shaping services contracts.

homelink

STB wrote: »

With all due respect I am fairly proficient in this whole area. It referred to ALL pay TV companies. I dont think I can be any clearer when I use the word ALL. Perhaps you should read this document:

Alleged anticompetitive practices in the provision of pay-TV infrastructure and services to apartment developments

I have read the document & I'm sure you are aware that the conclusion from the Competition Authority was that there was no adverse affect on competition, although I don't know how they came to that conclusion.But as I outlined, to the best of my knowledge Sky do not look for exclusivity when installing communal systems & at the risk of repeating myself, the system is independent of any existing system already in place.I'm not saying that they wouldn't try if they got the chance, however Sky, it appears, came to the market too late and so now have to retro fit their systems. You rightly pointed out the majority of apartment complexes have only a single coax supply per apartment, which is, am I'm sure you know,insufficient to supply sky services,(HD multi-room etc).

Slideshowbob

homelink wrote: »

I have read the document & I'm sure you are aware that the conclusion from the Competition Authority was that there was no adverse affect on competition, although I don't know how they came to that conclusion.But as I outlined, to the best of my knowledge Sky do not look for exclusivity when installing communal systems & at the risk of repeating myself, the system is independent of any existing system already in place.I'm not saying that they wouldn't try if they got the chance, however Sky, it appears, came to the market too late and so now have to retro fit their systems. You rightly pointed out the majority of apartment complexes have only a single coax supply per apartment, which is, am I'm sure you know,insufficient to supply sky services,(HD multi-room etc).

Homelink I notice you chose to ignore my last post directed at you .....

homelink

Slideshowbob wrote: »

I am not sure where you got your information or if you have an agenda on here

I decided to ask my management agent if he had been offered a financial incentive. In fairness to him he told me he had been offered some money if it goes ahead

The amount was only a fraction of what could be expected to be paid over a year to sky for their services.

I don't have any agenda (what's yours).The information is available to anyone who wishes to check. Also my point is (once again) the system offered by Sky is completely independent of any existing system which therefore rules out exclusivity, a single cable, feed which has already been stated in an earlier post as being the norm in apartments is insufficient for Sky services.As to your allegations, I notice you didn't say that the alleged deal was for exclusivity,(which is the whole point of the thread). & I wonder how your "source" would feel about you stating that "He" was offered money?Agendas! I wonder?

Slideshowbob

homelink wrote: »

I don't have any agenda (what's yours).The information is available to anyone who wishes to check. Also my point is (once again) the system offered by Sky is completely independent of any existing system which therefore rules out exclusivity, a single cable, feed which has already been stated in an earlier post as being the norm in apartments is insufficient for Sky services.As to your allegations, I notice you didn't say that the alleged deal was for exclusivity,(which is the whole point of the thread). & I wonder how your "source" would feel about you stating that "He" was offered money?Agendas! I wonder?

My agenda is set out in my post which started this thread - fairly straight forward. I'm an owner / resident. Not a TV/Satellite guru. A regular punter if you like with no expertise on TV/satellite etc so that's why I came on this thread for some general opinion on matters from people that might know and give some unbiased answers.

Just to clarify we already have UPC cabled in since the building was built.

On the matter, you have refered to information available. Would you be so kind as to tell me where can I check this available information to thanks??

And as I am the person who started the thread, I'll clarify the point of this thread is not about exclusivity, it's about inducements to get a system installed!

I am not sure if my management agent reads boards and not sure if he'd put 2 and 2 together as I haven't named him or anything so I am not sure what you are getting at, perhaps you are muddying the waters.

In your first post on this thread you stated "There is no incentive offered to management agents other than free installation."

I have subsequently found this not to be true. So can I now ask, what do you base you statement on or would you like to clarify it?

homelink

Slideshowbob wrote: »

My agenda is set out in my post which started this thread - fairly straight forward. I'm an owner / resident. Not a TV/Satellite guru. A regular punter if you like with no expertise on TV/satellite etc so that's why I came on this thread for some general opinion on matters from people that might know and give some unbiased answers.

Just to clarify we already have UPC cabled in since the building was built.

On the matter, you have refered to information available. Would you be so kind as to tell me where can I check this available information to thanks??

And as I am the person who started the thread, I'll clarify the point of this thread is not about exclusivity, it's about inducements to get a system installed!

I am not sure if my management agent reads boards and not sure if he'd put 2 and 2 together as I haven't named him or anything so I am not sure what you are getting at, perhaps you are muddying the waters.

In your first post on this thread you stated "There is no incentive offered to management agents other than free installation."

I have subsequently found this not to be true. So can I now ask, what do you base you statement on or would you like to clarify it?

www.sky.com/ireland/boxes/skyinyourapartment/ An un-named source? The oldest trick in the book.

Slideshowbob

homelink wrote: »

www.sky.com/ireland/boxes/skyinyourapartment/ An un-named source? The oldest trick in the book.

I don't see anything on that link to say management agents are or aren't offered incentives by Sky/Installer to have the system installed.

I suppose the potential for inducement is something others can be aware of when pushed for such systems by their management agents.

Sure he ain't anonomous - I told you he's my agent, about as anonomous as I am on here.

PS - The point of this thread is not about exposing my agent, the upshot is to identify a badness there in the Sky installation system ie an agent was offered an inducement to get the system in.

It's more a matter for Sky to address from the top down if they pride themselves on value and customer satisfaction. Indeed if anyone from Sky wants more information on this situation, they can PM me here.

Actually, where does the law stand on bribery in such a scenario if anything ever materialised??? Where would more blame lie ultimately? Sky/their agents? or management agents??

bk

BTW, depending on the layout of your apartment building, even if you have only one or no coax cable, you could still potentially get Sky.

In my case we had no coax in the apartment, instead TV was delivered via IPTV. Sky came along, installed a communal dish and ran two cables to every apartment along the front of the apartments, hidden behind the building cladding.

Of course not necessarily possible for everyone, but FYI.

Zenga

On a few things regarding this

Why are managing agents so happy to have communal dishes

For the simple reason that in most house rules of communal developements the erection of satellite dishes is banned. This results in the managing agent having to go out to site, take them down at a cost to the management company and face a lot of agression and anger from the owners involved. Having a communal dish solves this!! As for all these shady deals that you feel is going on id very much doubt that is happening. I have dealt with this a number of times and am not aware of this ever happening.

hawkwind23

i have sky in an apartment block and its a mess.
in fact all the telecoms are a mess in it.
what bugs me about sky in particular is that they only supply a single feed.
any issues with the dish are a nightmare to sort out.
so it seems a waste to me to pay for all the record facitlities etc when im on a single feed.

Slideshowbob

Zenga wrote: »

As for all these shady deals that you feel is going on id very much doubt that is happening. I have dealt with this a number of times and am not aware of this ever happening.

Just read back through my posts here and you'll see my experience which is contrary to your "doubts".

Can I ask in what context you have dealt with it a number of times? Are you a management agent? Sky installer? any vested interest per chance??

Zenga

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Just read back through my posts here and you'll see my experience which is contrary to your "doubts".

Can I ask in what context you have dealt with it a number of times? Are you a management agent? Sky installer? any vested interest per chance??

My experience is that I work for a managing agent, Im a PAYE Employee no more no less.

I do take the calls from people complaining about their neighbours satelite dishes, i then have to write a letter to the same neighbour instructing them to take down that satelite dish and then I have to take the angry call from that neighbour calling me everything under the sun!!! My vested interest is that the communal dish stops all that crap. It makes both parties happy so im obviously happy to not be taking the calls aswell!!!

I dont particularly care if the communal dish is Sky, UPC or any other supplier thats in the market, The simple fact is people want these services in their apartment