'SS' watch on adverts.ie

Morlar

Saw this advert and would like to get 2nd opinions on it.

As far as I am concerned it's yet another blatant fantasy item from this seller who repeatedly sell fake crap on adverts.ie.

In this case a standard wristwatch with 'ss' crap added to it to increase value and in order to defraud inexperienced collectors.

Anyone else have a view as to the legitimacy of this as a valid SS piece ?

http://www.adverts.ie/memorabilia/ww2-swiss-watch-with-3rd-reich-insignia-in-good-working-order/641062

Salma333 says 07/06/2011 9:05 am (9 hours ago):

This is 100% genuine SS Nazi watch. Minimum to pay is euro 105 including postage. I can`t sell for less.

Wibbs

Nope I'd put a serious lump of money down that that is as fake as pamela andersons bewbs. Well the SS bits were added. It's possible it was a private purchase piece with added SS, but even there I seriously doubt it. I'd put the watch at mid to late 40's. It's centre seconds for a start and they were rare until the late 40's. Incabloc shock protection is a mid 30's invention and not that common before 1940.

It's defo not an issued piece. If it was it would have DH(Deutsche heer) markings on the back and all army and navy issued watches were sub second*. The Luftwaffe got centre second navigators watches but they were the odd men out.

Short answer? Fake. If you wanted a late 40's generic wristwatch I suppose 100 quid is not that much. Me?? I'd offer 50 tops.

My qualifications to make this call? I love watches and for some mad reason have ended up with and learned a lot about German watches, from pre war, through "the emergency" all the way to the cold war. I'm wearing a Heuer Bund 60's pilots watch typing this as we speak. So M if yer man the seller wants to call me on this I can get real detailed.




*Artillery chaps did get the odd issued centre second jobs, but they're rarer than a short post from me.

phaethon

FAKE

Wibbs

I added a comment on the Adverts thread M. I'm afraid I know jack about medals and most other militaria but if ye ever see a watch coming up give me a holler. It really grinds my gears that shíte. The mil watch stuff is stupidly collectable. Mad money of late. 20 years ago the dress watch version of the mil watch was worth 2 , 3 or 4 times more than the military issued. TBH the only reason I got lucky was I always found black dials attractive. As basic as that.

Ebay is full of shíte from eastern Europe, designed to attract our Yankee cousins who for some reason seem to go gangbusters for anything "nazi". They're usually not that well informed and even some of the really well informed lads do think europe is another world so will pay mad money for crap.

Jagdtiger

That seller should really stick to selling hair extensions

phaethon

I especially like English text on the SS watch:D.. "waterproof", etc...

Still, if its even says "wasserdicht", I dount believe even a second that Germans used helmet decales for watch decorations .

HerrScheisse

Would I be right to assume it is unusual to have english language on an German item even if it was made in Switzerland??

The reason I ask is that I recently seen a DDR issued Ruhla wristwatch that also had some English text and this made me suspicious - is it normal or not normal to have English on German issued watches??

Wibbs

Not that odd funny enough. You can have french, german or english on issued German military pieces(watches anyway). Depends on the original source.

danpatjoe

I wouldn't have any confidence in it whatsoever.
Here's another from the same seller, with a totenkopf symbol added for good measure!

http://www.adverts.ie/memorabilia/ww2-swiss-watch-with-3rd-reich-insignia-in-good-working-order/591124

Morlar

danpatjoe wrote: »

I wouldn't have any confidence in it whatsoever.
Here's another from the same seller, with a totenkopf symbol added for good measure!

http://www.adverts.ie/memorabilia/ww2-swiss-watch-with-3rd-reich-insignia-in-good-working-order/591124

Wow. What are the odds. 2 completely different SS wristwatches, both by the same maker same model same seller. And SS Items !!

E.European fakes.
http://www.delbana.ch/history.html
From the 1930s to the 1950s, South America ranked among the company’s main markets. It was soon joined by important markets in Eastern Europe, notably Poland. Tens of thousands of mechanical DELBANA watches were sold in the communist countries where they were at times even accepted as a means of payment for other goods, even for foodstuffs!

They are a dime a dozen.

http://www.listityourselfauctions.com/detail.asp?id=10049
http://www.listityourselfauctions.com/detail.asp?id=11819&bigpic=0
http://www.listityourselfauctions.com/detail.asp?id=11822
http://www.listityourselfauctions.com/detail.asp?id=10052

Victor

Morlar wrote: »

Is there away of checking when watch 114013 was made?

Wibbs

Usually only by the bigger makers V. And even then.. Heuer for example don't seem to have any logical numbering system. That crowd Delblana? No hope.


Just to add, be careful about better fakes out there. They're beginning to pop up. Civilian versions of mil issued watches with redials and fake DH numbers on the back. Then there are the ex pocket watches in new wristwatch cases and new dials. That's a bloody industry in Poland in particular. A few famous Hollywood people were caught out buying fake Heuers and Breitlings of that type. Eastern Europe really is the place for these SS type stuff. Indeed I'd probably avoid any such watches from that neck of the woods. Not unless you really know what you're doing.

EDIT A short very general spotters guide;
With the exception of Navigators watches(which are huge) all army and navy issued watches are small in size. Around 30mm. All army ones will have black dials and the makers name and that's it. Navy ones will be white with KM(Kreigsmarine) on the dial and a number underneath. Both will have radium filled hands. All will be sub second. IE small dial at 6 o'clock. If it has that seconds dial at 9 o'clock it's a fake. No SS or unit details. The back on army ones will be stainless steel with DH markings like D 34343434 H. It will have fixed lugs for the strap, not removable pins. Follow that list and you'll likely be safe enough.

Wibbs

That guy grinds my gears. :mad: Looks like he's got other WW2 fakes on sale. And if a amateur like me can spot them... Problem is most won't. They'll see the 100% feedback and think "oh must be genuine then". Just like epray fakers. I tried the report ad function but it's not working for me. Pity cos they do try to follow up in my experience. We should just keep reporting and hounding fakers away from Adverts. Fine if they want to sell hair extensions and the like. Fair play we all have to earn a crust, but fakes? no thanks.

Dr Strange

Wibbs wrote: »

That guy grinds my gears. :mad: Looks like he's got other WW2 fakes on sale. And if a amateur like me can spot them... Problem is most won't. They'll see the 100% feedback and think "oh must be genuine then". Just like epray fakers. I tried the report ad function but it's not working for me. Pity cos they do try to follow up in my experience. We should just keep reporting and hounding fakers away from Adverts. Fine if they want to sell hair extensions and the like. Fair play we all have to earn a crust, but fakes? no thanks.

If everything else fails send a PM to Smashey!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056221099

EDIT: I am also curious as to why this guy is still allowed to sell the rubbish we mentioned in the thread I linked to above. Something needs to be done.

Dublin_Gunner

Wow that is shocking. That guy is nothing but a fraudster / conman. And I don't use those words lightly.

He seems to have all sorts of German miltary items from lapel / collar badges, a random iron cross and other stuff.

he seems to sell quite a lot, so I'm really wondering how he can get away with it?

Morlar

I reported the watch ad and it's still there. I reported most of his other fake crap and some of it's still there too. Or, in the case of the 'SS Iron Cross' the ad was removed but he simply re-listed it again. This user should be banned from adverts.ie, he is knowingly, repeatedly, selling fake crap (which is worth peanuts) for high prices to beginner collectors.

arnhem44

This guy is some ticket in fairness.Right been right the people who are buying stuff off him or those interested in buying should be told what he's selling or at least warned off if it's a case this guy is allowed to carry on trading this crap.

Dublin_Gunner

arnhem44 wrote: »

This guy is some ticket in fairness.Right been right the people who are buying stuff off him or those interested in buying should be told what he's selling or at least warned off if it's a case this guy is allowed to carry on trading this crap.

Maybe everyone who's seen this thread should post 'it's fake' on each of his dodgy adverts.

Can't see any poor unsuspecting fecker purchasing his crap then.

Wibbs

+1 "It's a fake and here are the reasons why". This is where Boards/Adverts can attempt to be different as far as collectors items go. With the wealth and breadth of knowledge on lots of topics across a fair few forums I reckon we can make a diff alright. Make it second nature for potential buyers to hop into the respective forums to ask about the items.

Maybe a sticky? "Items for sale, fake or real?" Could cover ebay/gumtree/buyandsell stuff as well. Do that in a few forums and it would reduce the fakers I reckon.