Fitting Trackers as standard

Robertr

Following the recent spate of 335i thefts I got to thinking, car security systems are so advanced these days, its now basically impossible to steal a car without the keys.

The result, we are now all living in danger of our houses being broker into at night. Apart from turning your house into a fortress, what else can be done?

One option I keep coming back to is that car manufacturers start to fit trackers to cars as standard. Considering the technology required is pretty standard these days and the cost of adding if nothing compared to the cost of these cars, why are they not doing it?

They don't even offer it as an option!! In a round about way they are actually responsible for the current predicament and the danger we face.

A tracker basically makes car theft redundant unless you’re just after a quick thrill and I’d imaging those kinds of thefts are crimes of opportunity.

Forget a car that automatically parks itself, just fit a dam tracker!

Am I missing something?

biko

If you make something standard you also make it easier to steal the car.
As soon as someone defeats the tracker the news will quickly spread, then all cars of same model are vulnerable.
Also a tracker is good once the car has been stolen but won't help you before that.

Imo, look at various Home Security options like flood lights, stronger doors, motion detectors etc.
It's nigh impossible to repel an expert thief but if you can get scumbags to turn away, you'll probably have the car many years.

copacetic

I dont think fitting trackers asuch will become standard, but OEM gps systems with a built in tracking function will imo. Linked to website/phone system. Could be disabled by taking entire fascia apart, but most cars could be tracked before that happens. System would of course give last known in case of underground storage or similar.

Robertr

biko wrote: »

As soon as someone defeats the tracker the news will quickly spread, then all cars of same model are vulnerable.

Once it’s integrated into the cars ECU it should be pretty easy to make it tamper proof. Why can't car thieves get around modern day immobilisers?

biko wrote: »

Also a tracker is good once the car has been stolen but won't help you before that.

Of course it will. It they know they car has a tracker they won't bother trying. Same reason they don't go around smahing the windows on modern cars trying to start them. They know they can't.

5500

All the theif needs is a gsm/gps jammer which can easily be bought online or even in some shops in town.

Im sure if theifs are going to the hassle of breaking into houses for specific high value car's they're carrying jammers with them knowing that the car most likely has a tracker fitted.

copacetic

5500 wrote: »

All the theif needs is a gsm/gps jammer which can easily be bought online or even in some shops in town.

Im sure if theifs are going to the hassle of breaking into houses for specific high value car's they're carrying jammers with them knowing that the car most likely has a tracker fitted.

I'd expect a major crackdown on gps jammers in the future. They cause all kinds of problems with modern tech.

http://www.economist.com/node/18304246

Our man in Havana

Indeed. But they are freely available to anyone with a credit card.

Robertr

Hence why you would build it into the ECU. If the system cannot make contact with the GPS satellites it would disable the car.

Point is if you are smart enough with how its built it could be done.

copacetic

Robertr wrote: »

Hence why you would build it into the ECU. If the system cannot make contact with the GPS satellites it would disable the car.

Point is if you are smart enough with how its built it could be done.

Not sure saying being ' smart enough' and disabling car if can't see the sky really go together.

markpb

Robertr wrote: »

Hence why you would build it into the ECU. If the system cannot make contact with the GPS satellites it would disable the car. Point is if you are smart enough with how its built it could be done.

You'd have a serious problem with underground car parks

Dardania

markpb wrote: »

You'd have a serious problem with underground car parks

I was about to recount how the Americans have a penchant for reducing the resolution and possibly turning off civilian access to GPS in war time, but your howler of a problem is more obvious!

DublinDilbert

In the US they have the on-star system, which gives some similar features.

I can see cars soon taking a sim card and having a variety of features; tracking, sending back DTCs, send back traffic info, sending back info if air bags deploy etc....

copacetic

DublinDilbert wrote: »

In the US they have the on-star system, which gives some similar features.

I can see cars soon taking a sim card and having a variety of features; tracking, sending back DTCs, send back traffic info, sending back info if air bags deploy etc....

Loads of cars already have a lot of that, BMW assist etc, knows when you've crashed, calls emergency services for you, remote lock/unlock etc etc. Of course not available in Ireland as no local call centre, so don't see it optioned here except on some UK imports.

Robertr

copacetic wrote: »

Not sure saying being ' smart enough' and disabling car if can't see the sky really go together.

markpb wrote: »

You'd have a serious problem with underground car parks

Not really. You could just use some kind of backup 3G system.

Or the car is only disabled if it is not able to contact the GPS after being driven for one mile?

There are solutions to all these issues if you just think outside the box for a minute. I'm not suggesting there is a system there today to do this but if the car manufactureres wanted to do it, they could provide us with something better then what we have today.

cojomo2

what about a dummy key?

Leave it downstairs..thief breaks in, grabs the key and off he goes. 5 mins later, the chip in the key stops send a signal and the car cuts out.

Maybe even have a sim card in the key to ring and alert the owner of the theft. Then ring the cops and tell them the thieves are a few hundred metres down the road in an immobilised car?

biko

Perhaps some hidden camera broadcasting to some offsite server?
Like baitcar.com

copacetic

Robertr wrote: »

Not really. You could just use some kind of backup 3G system.

Or the car is only disabled if it is not able to contact the GPS after being driven for one mile?

There are solutions to all these issues if you just think outside the box for a minute. I'm not suggesting there is a system there today to do this but if the car manufactureres wanted to do it, they could provide us with something better then what we have today.

presumably anyone who blocks gps would block gsm/3G also. what about long tunnels like all over europe? what if your aerial broke and you couldn't move your car?

Robertr

copacetic wrote: »

presumably anyone who blocks gps would block gsm/3G also. what about long tunnels like all over europe? what if your aerial broke and you couldn't move your car?

Obviously the system is only active when the car is turned off. No one steals a moving vehicle so I don't think tunnels are going to be a problem.

What if your car alarm broke and you couldn't move your car?

pajo1981

copacetic wrote: »

presumably anyone who blocks gps would block gsm/3G also. what about long tunnels like all over europe? what if your aerial broke and you couldn't move your car?

A simple database of tunnels on the system could prevent that from being a problem?

ed: Also, a database of GSM cells could be incorporated into the system. If you are in a known coverage area and you can't get signal then boom, car stops.

As for tech reliability: tech has never been as reliable.

pajo1981

Robertr wrote: »

Obviously the system is only active when the car is turned off. No one steals a moving vehicle so I don't think tunnels are going to be a problem.

What if your car alarm broke and you couldn't move your car?

What about an underground car park?

I'd say the system should only engage if a signal is not received after the car's been moving for a while.

What about if you go from an underground car park and into a long tunnel?

Robertr

pajo1981 wrote: »

What about an underground car park?

I'd say the system should only engage if a signal is not received after the car's been moving for a while.

What about if you go from an underground car park and into a long tunnel?

Already mentioned the underground car park. If the car is started and driven for a mile with no signal it stops.

If you are going from an underground car park into a long tunnel you could just diactivate the system.

You could call the 'help desk' and based on a number of security questions and a password they would give you a code to turn off the system for a desired period of time.

You would obviously have special code words also that could given if you were being forced to give the password that would disable the car when it was a mile or two away.

Gregor Samsa

Robertr wrote: »

Obviously the system is only active when the car is turned off. No one steals a moving vehicle so I don't think tunnels are going to be a problem.

Except hijackers.

(ok, so the car might not be technicaly moving at the very point the hijacker takes it, but it often would be running)

Robertr

phutyle wrote: »

Except hijackers.

(ok, so the car might not be technicaly moving at the very point the hijacker takes it, but it often would be running)

The purpose of this is not to prevent carkacking (although a quick call could disable the car if it is), Its to prevent someone breaking into your house to steal your keys and putting you and your family in danger.

5500

cojomo2 wrote: »

what about a dummy key?

Leave it downstairs..thief breaks in, grabs the key and off he goes. 5 mins later, the chip in the key stops send a signal and the car cuts out.

Maybe even have a sim card in the key to ring and alert the owner of the theft. Then ring the cops and tell them the thieves are a few hundred metres down the road in an immobilised car?

Blakjax on clifford alarms has been available for years and offers the same kind of functionality. Drive off in the car, if the pin code isnt entered after the designated time the car shuts off and is immobiised untill the pin is entered. Although like everything, its easily bypassed if you know how.

As for the trackers and immobilisation if there is no signal,Its offered already on some of the higher priced tracking systems already, but a tow truck is another option for this and its not that far fetched either.

robtri

I know certain cars in amercia have similiar sytems as standard....

some models have a GPS, tracker system fitted as standard off the asembly line...

While it wont stop your car being stolen, they ahve the ability to track it via the gps and to remote shutdown the car.....


Die Hard 4.0?? remember the scence where they remote start the car....

Big Nasty

Makes sense to me - I'm sure the difficulties could be gotten around relatively easily with a little thought.

savagecabbages

The fitting of tracker systems to all car would be seen as a massive invasion of privacy for many people. They'd inevitably end up being used for more than just tracking stolen cars... Speeding for example
[now i think remote shutdown systems are a great idea, but this is ireland and people might disagree with that on the privacy grounds]

Realistically, if someone wants to rob your car they will. No system is going to stop a properly organised thief with a crane equipped car transporter... Then again these guys only target expensive cars.
My worst fear is someone robbing my car simply to joyride it or use it for a crime. Guaranteed to be damaged/burnt out afterwards. Some sort of immobilizing dead switch hidden somewhere inside which only the owner knows how to work... They'll still break in and damage the car, but might end up leaving it sitting where its parked rather than total destruction!