Who knows about engines?

Dr Nic

Hi Guys,
Im going doing an engine transplant in my car soon...
Petrol to diesel.
On the look out for a suitable donor car - thinking a 406/306 diesel with cable clutch and rod change. Most suitable for my car!

Questions:
How does things like the speedometer etc work with a new engine?
What about miles clocked etc
Can i use the same exhaust diesel & petrol?
Can i use the same fuel tank? I've been advised not to, but if i just drain & wash the petrol a few times it should do?

Thanks!

Owen

If you don't know the answers to these questions, it probably isn't a good idea to go swapping engines. There's a lot more to it than just changing the block and flushing the fuel tank. Whatever you'll spend on this (Which'll be a fair bit) - you'd nearly be cheaper to use that money and part exchange your current car. Plus, your frankencar which you'd have at the end would be saleproof.

Dr Nic

Thank you PaintDoctor. I agree its not a good idea, but thats still not going to stop me doing it!

Currently the car is worth very little, so im not overly worried about re-selling it later on. I dont really see why it would be saleproof after the change though?

Back to engines...
So what is there to it?

Dr Nic

I know a guy who did this. Took about 3 days and ran for 50k miles no probs since. That gave me the idea really...

Slidey

There is more than just engines.

Suspension, drive shafts, gear box. heater relays, exhaust radiator is probably different, engine mounts...


Unless you have the donor car for nothing and are able to do all the work yourself you are wasting your time and money

Owen

Not to mention the nightmare of trying to get the body control modules of a petrol engine to talk to the diesel's ECU and ancillary electronics.

who the fug

Slidey wrote: »

There is more than just engines.

Suspension, drive shafts, gear box. heater relays, exhaust radiator is probably different, engine mounts...


Unless you have the donor car for nothing and are able to do all the work yourself you are wasting your time and money

What he said?

Dr Nic

Thanks Guys...
I do appreciate it.

But back to engines. This can be done. And has been.

Have you considered the wiring? the speedo will be the very least of your worries. Replacing a v6 petrol with a diesel is a looney project for a novice. If you got a doner 406 with a diesel in it I still wouldn't fancy your chances.

Nissan doctor

Dr Nic wrote: »

Thanks Guys...
I do appreciate it.

But back to engines. This can be done. And has been.

Well, without wanting to sound unhelpfull, but if you know it can be done and has been done, would you not contact the person/people who have done it?


If you are doing it just to show you can or prove a point then fair play.

If you are doing it because you need cheaper running costs, then you are deluding yourself if you think it is a financially viable option.

It certainly isn't just a case of fitting the engine.

Dr Nic

Thanks Guys, all appreciated...
I have contacted him. He's know my expierence with engine's and still said 5 days to do it. But thats not really the point, just answering a question...

What im thinking about doing is buying the donor car, and stripping its engine.
Then putting it back together.

ants09

http://www.e30owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13411

the following link shows a E30 diesel conversion aint a peogeot but might help ye

good luck with the project but as said previously think hard and twice about it before you commet yourself

ianobrien

OP, generally, engine swaps are easier in RWD cars (as there is less critical allignments to worry about) and swapping engines in older cars (ie late '80's or earlier) are easier as there is less electronics to worry about.

OP, for the engine swap in a 306, you'll need to swap engine, gearbox (wrong ratios), fuel tank and pumps. Also, you'll probably have to change servo (diesels can't generate engine vacuum), driveshafts (diesel shafts are usually stronger), front springs and shocks (heavier engine) and probably mountings as well. You can add exhaust, rad and pipework to the list. The 406 had a few different diesels fitted in it's life, with the HDi being the most complex.

From an electrical point of view, the 306's were known for "interesting" engine immobilizer problems, so add ECU's, clocks, engine bay looms to the equation. If you have a scrapper 306 it's a fraction easier. If you're changing between models, have fun!

David09

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Plus, your frankencar which you'd have at the end would be saleproof.

Lmfao!!!


I did this conversion before with a fiesta van. I had a 1.1 petrol and fitted a 1.6 diesel from an escort van.
Owing to the way ford manufacture the cars, I was lucky that almost everything was compatible with the diesel lump. Gearbox matched up, exhaust connected at the front pipe, etc... Even the wiring harness plugged in and the choke light worked as a heater plug light!!!

I've seen the same thing done with an opel corsa in that the 3cyl heap of junk was ditched in favour of a 1.7 isuzu diesel from an opel combo van.

I've no idea what is or isn't compatible on a peugeot, but the best chance you have of success is to have both cars parked alongside and swap everything over.

Dr Nic

Finally some optimism to go along with my crazyness lol...
Maybe if i get hold of a 406 diesel and then pug my dashboard into its circuitry, i would have an idea...
Or better yet, i could get a reply from the guy who i know has done it already. Still waiting on him to get back to me.

So David, what else did you have to change other than the engine?
Fuel tank? yes i assume?
Not electrics anyway.

David09

No, I didn't change the fuel tank. I just ran it low in petrol before the job and filled it to the neck with diesel after the job was done. I ran the engine with the pipes extended into a can to ensure it was running on pure diesel before connecting the lines up.
In your case I suspect you will have to change the tank as the petrol engine probably has an electric pump in the tank and you won't want this. So yes, you probably will have to swap tanks or at least get rid of the submersible pump.

All that said, it was an easy job to do on a ford fiesta, but I wouldn't like doing it on a peugeot.

MsAmerica

Don't be afraid to do anything, just make sure that your prepared for all scenarios and be detailed and disciplined in your approach.

First of all let me explain why I am responding to this. You should know that I am as girly as can be and nobody would ever suspect me of doing my own auto repairs but there was a time in my life that I didn't have a choice in the matter. I was very young, divorced with 2 little ones and my alternator went out. I couldn't afford to pay someone and I wasn't going to let anyone take care of me like I was helpless either. I bought the part, a repair manual and borrowed some tools (and an air compressor). It took me 3 days but I did it and I did it well. From then on for awhile I was so damn proud of myself that I decided to do everything. Having a cheap car allowed me a lot of practice. I have done tune ups, oil changes, put in a thermostat, a serpentine belt, and have rewired an electrical panel two different times. I have put on brakes and rotors and even patched my fuel tank. I was only 23. Since then, I have not done anything but I feel really good knowing that I accomplished it.

When something looks difficult or challenging don't let anyone tell you not to do it. That's when you should do it all the more. It may be hard work and it may kick your ass but in the end you discover that you can do hard work and getting your ass kicked is better than sitting on it.

As far as your questions go. Here in the US it is illegal to alter the odometer in any vehicle at any time. When the engine is replaced, documentation of the current milage at the time of install compared to the reading you see is the only way to tell how many miles you have put on your engine. We are required to get a 'salvage title' to replace the original when the vehicle is sold. This will also note the milage and prevent any discrepencies. I can't imagine if it would be different there or not.

You shouldn't use the same fuel tank. The systems are completely different. You need to get the scematics of your entire vehicle and study it well. There are things that come up that you don't acticipate. You will need many things that it may not be obvious until you are in the middle of it and that will just frustrate you. Make sure that you have every power tool, every little bolt, valve, hose, sealant, lubricant, and wrench you need before you start. Many times there are tools that are propriatory for your specific make of vehicle.


Anyway, I wish you luck and don't take random advice from anyone. Talk to a mechanic when trying to figure things out. (or ms america...:))

Plug

MsAmerica wrote: »

Don't be afraid to do anything, just make sure that your prepared for all scenarios and be detailed and disciplined in your approach.

First of all let me explain why I am responding to this. You should know that I am as girly as can be and nobody would ever suspect me of doing my own auto repairs but there was a time in my life that I didn't have a choice in the matter. I was very young, divorced with 2 little ones and my alternator went out. I couldn't afford to pay someone and I wasn't going to let anyone take care of me like I was helpless either. I bought the part, a repair manual and borrowed some tools (and an air compressor). It took me 3 days but I did it and I did it well. From then on for awhile I was so damn proud of myself that I decided to do everything. Having a cheap car allowed me a lot of practice. I have done tune ups, oil changes, put in a thermostat, a serpentine belt, and have rewired an electrical panel two different times. I have put on brakes and rotors and even patched my fuel tank. I was only 23. Since then, I have not done anything but I feel really good knowing that I accomplished it.

When something looks difficult or challenging don't let anyone tell you not to do it. That's when you should do it all the more. It may be hard work and it may kick your ass but in the end you discover that you can do hard work and getting your ass kicked is better than sitting on it.

As far as your questions go. Here in the US it is illegal to alter the odometer in any vehicle at any time. When the engine is replaced, documentation of the current milage at the time of install compared to the reading you see is the only way to tell how many miles you have put on your engine. We are required to get a 'salvage title' to replace the original when the vehicle is sold. This will also note the milage and prevent any discrepencies. I can't imagine if it would be different there or not.

You shouldn't use the same fuel tank. The systems are completely different. You need to get the scematics of your entire vehicle and study it well. There are things that come up that you don't acticipate. You will need many things that it may not be obvious until you are in the middle of it and that will just frustrate you. Make sure that you have every power tool, every little bolt, valve, hose, sealant, lubricant, and wrench you need before you start. Many times there are tools that are propriatory for your specific make of vehicle.


Anyway, I wish you luck and don't take random advice from anyone. Talk to a mechanic when trying to figure things out. (or ms america...:))

Don't be afraid to do anything, just make sure that your prepared for all scenarios and be detailed and disciplined in your approach.

First of all let me explain why I am responding to this. You should know that I am as girly as can be and nobody would ever suspect me of doing my own auto repairs but there was a time in my life that I didn't have a choice in the matter. I was very young, divorced with 2 little ones and my alternator went out. I couldn't afford to pay someone and I wasn't going to let anyone take care of me like I was helpless either. I bought the part, a repair manual and borrowed some tools (and an air compressor). It took me 3 days but I did it and I did it well. From then on for awhile I was so damn proud of myself that I decided to do everything. Having a cheap car allowed me a lot of practice. I have done tune ups, oil changes, put in a thermostat, a serpentine belt, and have rewired an electrical panel two different times. I have put on brakes and rotors and even patched my fuel tank. I was only 23. Since then, I have not done anything but I feel really good knowing that I accomplished it.

When something looks difficult or challenging don't let anyone tell you not to do it. That's when you should do it all the more. It may be hard work and it may kick your ass but in the end you discover that you can do hard work and getting your ass kicked is better than sitting on it.

As far as your questions go. Here in the US it is illegal to alter the odometer in any vehicle at any time. When the engine is replaced, documentation of the current milage at the time of install compared to the reading you see is the only way to tell how many miles you have put on your engine. We are required to get a 'salvage title' to replace the original when the vehicle is sold. This will also note the milage and prevent any discrepencies. I can't imagine if it would be different there or not.

You shouldn't use the same fuel tank. The systems are completely different. You need to get the scematics of your entire vehicle and study it well. There are things that come up that you don't acticipate. You will need many things that it may not be obvious until you are in the middle of it and that will just frustrate you. Make sure that you have every power tool, every little bolt, valve, hose, sealant, lubricant, and wrench you need before you start. Many times there are tools that are propriatory for your specific make of vehicle.


Anyway, I wish you luck and don't take random advice from anyone. Talk to a mechanic when trying to figure things out. (or ms america...)






Thats better:D

Guy:Incognito

Plug wrote: »

Don't be afraid to do anything, just make sure that your prepared for all scenarios and be detailed and disciplined in your approach.

First of all let me explain why I am responding to this. You should know that I am as girly as can be and nobody would ever suspect me of doing my own auto repairs but there was a time in my life that I didn't have a choice in the matter. I was very young, divorced with 2 little ones and my alternator went out. I couldn't afford to pay someone and I wasn't going to let anyone take care of me like I was helpless either. I bought the part, a repair manual and borrowed some tools (and an air compressor). It took me 3 days but I did it and I did it well. From then on for awhile I was so damn proud of myself that I decided to do everything. Having a cheap car allowed me a lot of practice. I have done tune ups, oil changes, put in a thermostat, a serpentine belt, and have rewired an electrical panel two different times. I have put on brakes and rotors and even patched my fuel tank. I was only 23. Since then, I have not done anything but I feel really good knowing that I accomplished it.

When something looks difficult or challenging don't let anyone tell you not to do it. That's when you should do it all the more. It may be hard work and it may kick your ass but in the end you discover that you can do hard work and getting your ass kicked is better than sitting on it.

As far as your questions go. Here in the US it is illegal to alter the odometer in any vehicle at any time. When the engine is replaced, documentation of the current milage at the time of install compared to the reading you see is the only way to tell how many miles you have put on your engine. We are required to get a 'salvage title' to replace the original when the vehicle is sold. This will also note the milage and prevent any discrepencies. I can't imagine if it would be different there or not.

You shouldn't use the same fuel tank. The systems are completely different. You need to get the scematics of your entire vehicle and study it well. There are things that come up that you don't acticipate. You will need many things that it may not be obvious until you are in the middle of it and that will just frustrate you. Make sure that you have every power tool, every little bolt, valve, hose, sealant, lubricant, and wrench you need before you start. Many times there are tools that are propriatory for your specific make of vehicle.


Anyway, I wish you luck and don't take random advice from anyone. Talk to a mechanic when trying to figure things out. (or ms america...)






Thats better:D

That would be a larger font, caps lock looks like this:

BLAH BLAH BLAH, BIG LONG POST.:)

Row

Slidey wrote: »

There is more than just engines.

Suspension, drive shafts, gear box. heater relays, exhaust radiator is probably different, engine mounts...


Unless you have the donor car for nothing and are able to do all the work yourself you are wasting your time and money

Just want to add to this..
Engine ecu....bsi...wiring looms...maybe the engine bay fusebox will have to be changed.
also your abs module may not have comms with engine ecu so that may have to changed.

OP...I'm not saying it cannot be done but with the older petrol to diesel
conversions it was only a matter of swapping out the engine and gearbox
and bob was your uncle.....but you may end up with bob been your aunt..:)