Do Nice Guys Finish Last???

DazMarz

The question of my pondering is in the thread title.

I ask you, the Gentlemen of boards.ie, to help me to gain an answer into this statement: "Nice guys finish last".

How true is this?

I am going to use myself as an example. I'm a nice guy. Believe it or believe it not, but I am. I try my level best to be the best person I can be every day. I try to help people out in any way I can, once I am able to do so, and even if I'm not able to do so, I'll usually try anyway.

I'm easy-going, friendly and I genuinely try to find at least one endearing quality in even the most awful of people, so that I can have something to like about them as a person.

But lately, I find myself getting the raw ends of deals, never being appreciated, being used and exploited because of my good, 'soft-touch' nature... mostly by people I know and love. I am never backed up by anyone in the few conflicts I have with people (usually arising by when I try to battle my own corner or something, so I've basically given up trying to stand up for myself).

So, using myself as a case study as it were, I believe that nice people and good people seem to get walked on and trampled all over and used for their good natures and are never appreciated for it.

But that's just me... what say you, Gentlemen of boards.ie? Do you agree with this? Or do you think that life will find a way eventually to redress the balance and nice guys eventually may get rewarded and appreciated for their actions and their good nature?

MitchKoobski

I agree with this, but at the same time there's so many variables it's hard to give a definite YES or NO.

I used to be "The Nice Guy" 24/7 and no one could say a bad word about me, then it got to be a bit bollocks. I'd be the one needed for favours or odd jobs. My opinion started to be ignored in conversations. "Oh MitchKoobski will do it, sure he's lovely!"
So I stopped being so nice and cheery for a while. Didn't bother with fake smiles and visibly showed it when people were annoying me with what they were saying. I lost one or two friends because I stopped doing every single favour for them and expressed an opinion instead of saying "Oh yeah definitely I agree".

Nice Guys only finish last when they let everyone else go ahead of them.

This thread again...
"nice" and "doormat" are not synonyms. If you are a soft touch and let people walk over you, you are falling into the second category, not the first.
People who proclaim themselves nice guys...usually the ones with difficulties!

Wibbs

bluewolf wrote: »

"nice" and "doormat" are not synonyms. If you are a soft touch and let people walk over you, you are falling into the second category, not the first.
People who proclaim themselves nice guys...usually the ones with difficulties!

Quoted for truth. Wusses tend to finish last. Goes double for male wusses in my experience.

Now what isn't commented upon that often is maybe some prefer that. Certainly in relationships. I know a few men who on the outside are "whipped" wusses and are perfectly happy being so.

krudler

Being nice and being a walkover are two different things, you can be nice and still be respected or not have people just want you for favours as well. If you let people take advantage of you they will.

Logical Fallacy

Nice guys don't finish last, they tend not to finish at all because they never get in the race.

In my experience self proclaimed "Nice Guys" tend to sit on the sidelines and bitch and moan about how no one notices how ****ing awesome they really are, while doing very little to display how awesome they might be.

Finding good qualities in bad people is not a "nice guy" trait. It's a sycophantic one, normally born of a desperation for status quo and social calm.

Some people are just ****ing assholes and the world won't turn on you for not liking them.

Count Duckula

Isn't the "I'm so nice and work so hard but no one appreciates or loves me" claim often a precursor of co-dependency, albeit the latter tends to exist in a relationship.

Bottle_of_Smoke

The nice guy persona is usually used to cover for lack of self confidence I think. During mid teens I had it. Wasn't to get girls, I'd completely written them off at that stage. Was just nice/doormatesque to people out of hope they would like me/accept me in social groups/cliques in work.

It worked to a certain degree but its not a nice existence. Grew out of it when I became more comfortable in my own skin, and with a certain amount of irony it became clear people tend to like me more since then.

18AD

The thing is, sometimes it's appropriate to not be a nice guy. Standing up for yourself and what you believe requires confrontation. If you're not confrontational I think there's something wrong. You can't be confrontational and a nice guy at the same time, I think. So being a nice guy won't get you very far.

Delirium

DazMarz wrote: »

The question of my pondering is in the thread title.

I ask you, the Gentlemen of boards.ie, to help me to gain an answer into this statement: "Nice guys finish last".

How true is this?

I am going to use myself as an example. I'm a nice guy. Believe it or believe it not, but I am. I try my level best to be the best person I can be every day. I try to help people out in any way I can, once I am able to do so, and even if I'm not able to do so, I'll usually try anyway.

I'm easy-going, friendly and I genuinely try to find at least one endearing quality in even the most awful of people, so that I can have something to like about them as a person.

But lately, I find myself getting the raw ends of deals, never being appreciated, being used and exploited because of my good, 'soft-touch' nature... mostly by people I know and love. I am never backed up by anyone in the few conflicts I have with people (usually arising by when I try to battle my own corner or something, so I've basically given up trying to stand up for myself).

Thats being a doormat, which I wouldn't think is very appealing to most people. You can be a nice person without people walking all over you. It would be quite possible could be seeing you as a doormat and therefore attributing you helping people as being taken advantage of because you're a doormat.

If you fight your corner, you're more likely to impress as people will think there's someone not willing to be made a fool of.

So, using myself as a case study as it were, I believe that nice people and good people seem to get walked on and trampled all over and used for their good natures and are never appreciated for it.

Wouldn't agree with that, I know plenty of nice people, but the important part is that they generally don't let people take advantage of them.

But that's just me... what say you, Gentlemen of boards.ie? Do you agree with this? Or do you think that life will find a way eventually to redress the balance and nice guys eventually may get rewarded and appreciated for their actions and their good nature?

Plenty of nice guys and girls already do. Mainly because they're willing to speak up for themselves. I'd imagine the vast majority of people don't want to be with someone they can just walk all over.

Marty McFly

I think it all comes down to your own view of what a nice guy is, id consider myself to be a nice guy have been told i havent a bad bone in my body and im real genuine etc but at the same time it doesnt mean you cant have strong views or be afraid to voise them, being a nice guy and a doormat are two very different things that some people tend to confuse.


Now back to the op,s question no nice guys dont finish last you can be a nice guy with confidence in who you are and fight for your beliefs and still hit the goals in life that you set yourself without being a doormat.

I think when most people say nice guy what they really describe is someone real shy, lacking in confidence whos a bit of a pushover just by calling them a nice guy its a nice way of putting it.

18AD

What's that quote? "If you have no enemies, you're doing it wrong", or something like that.

jgr12

18AD wrote: »

What's that quote? "If you have no enemies, you're doing it wrong", or something like that.

Was it not "A man without enemies is a man without character"?

Handsome Bob

Know your own mind Daz. Often, when I've let people walk all over me, it was because I just accepted that they're line of thinking was correct, and that I was wrong. The slightest bit of criticism and I'd fold.

Have a little bit of self belief and you'd be amazed at how much easier things can be.

DazMarz

Thanks to all replies, both critical and supportive. They've all helped me realise a few things and so on. I don't think I'm sycophantic really, but perhaps I am. And I do tend to be a bit of a doormat at times, but mostly I try to think of myself as caring and concerned, but at times I do let myself in for 'using' treatment from others.

While some have been kinda hard to read, they speaketh the truth sometimes and for that I am grateful.

irishh_bob

yes they do , the only people who like nice guys are feminists and lesbians , feminists because , nice guys dont need casterating and lesbians because , well , thier not interested in men and the non macho type is less hassle

Snowie

think theres no harm in being a good person but i think as man you have to be good but ballsy...

Snowie

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Nice guys don't finish last, they tend not to finish at all because they never get in the race.

In my experience self proclaimed "Nice Guys" tend to sit on the sidelines and bitch and moan about how no one notices how ****ing awesome they really are, while doing very little to display how awesome they might be.

genrally nice guys dont have the botel or the gonads to make the move...

and then try it on with there female friends because there easy targets and get rejected and then bitch and moan about the fact that women dont go for them...

Giselle

DazMarz wrote: »

Thanks to all replies, both critical and supportive. They've all helped me realise a few things and so on. I don't think I'm sycophantic really, but perhaps I am. And I do tend to be a bit of a doormat at times, but mostly I try to think of myself as caring and concerned, but at times I do let myself in for 'using' treatment from others.

While some have been kinda hard to read, they speaketh the truth sometimes and for that I am grateful.

I actually think some of the replies have been unnecessarily harsh, particularly the ones who seem to feel they have enough insight into your character from the OP that they can add in a few character traits they've decided you have.:rolleyes:

I'm sure you're a lovely person, genuinely nice (by which I don't mean weak, sycophantic, a doormat or perhaps co-dependent!). I think the world would be a better place if we all looked for the good in others. I think thats a very positive character trait, as is helpfulness.

I think perhaps you should simply put your own needs first a little more often, because it shows self-respect, and others respect you more when you know your own worth.:) And be careful of how often you help others. If something comes free, and easily, we take it for granted.

And a nice person should never be taken for granted.:)

Giselle

irishh_bob wrote: »

yes they do , the only people who like nice guys are feminists and lesbians , feminists because , nice guys dont need casterating and lesbians because , well , thier not interested in men and the non macho type is less hassle

Jesus.

Otis Driftwood

irishh_bob,I advise you to read our charter before posting here again.Ridiculous statements like you have made above,apart from being baseless and frankly offensive are made only to troll.Looking at your ultra checkered posting history during your short time on boards I really dont think you will ever have anything to add to tGC.You arent banned but anymore crap like the above you will find yourself on permanent hiatus from here.

mikemac

Nice guys tend to be terrified of confrontation.
So fold like a doormat and then become eager to please.

"If I outwork everyone people will like me" logic
They are probably genuinely nice but act over nice as a cover for zero confidence. Absolutely terrified of critics.

In the end they don't speak up, get passed over and grow bitter. "Why can't people see my extra work? Does nobody see me acting the martyr?"
How do I know? I did it!

Just speaking up and putting forward your view gets you more respect but a fear of offending anyone holds a lot back

I agree with another poster, they don't finish last in the race, they never even enter the race

To be a nice but self confident guy is something different entirely

G86

Quiet, soft touch, doormat type 'yes man' = not hot.

Strong willed, confident, assertive yet friendly guy who has the balls to disagree with me = HOT.

parker kent

G86 wrote: »

Quiet, soft touch, doormat type 'yes man' = not hot.

Strong willed, confident, assertive yet friendly guy who has the balls to disagree with me = HOT.

Not all quiet men are soft touches or doormats. I'm not saying you said that, but I think it needs to be said in the thread more often.

In reality, different people like different things. One person's doormat would be viewed by another as easy going. I think Giselle made some really good points earlier, especially the need to put yourself first and show some self-respect.

G86

parker kent wrote: »

Not all quiet men are soft touches or doormats. I'm not saying you said that, but I think it needs to be said in the thread more often.

In reality, different people like different things. One person's doormat would be viewed by another as easy going. I think Giselle made some really good points earlier, especially the need to put yourself first and show some self-respect.

Aye you're right, that's not what I was saying at all. I was merely referring to a guy who had all of those traits.

Self respect is definitely a big thing. I have a male friend who came to me for advice about his relationship recently because he wasn't sure if he was being taken for granted. After chatting, I found out that after 6 months with this chick, he was still paying for everything and dropping everything to drive her here and there 24/7. I told him he was being walked all over, and he agreed, but yet he's still with her because he doesn't have the balls to bring it up. He's a lovely guy, but that right there is one of the reasons why he's only ever been a friend.

cheesefiend

I think that my dad would be one of the men described here as a "soft touch". He's an incredibly hard worker, he's always willing to help whether asked or not. In previos relationships he has had a hard time breaking up with his partners, however I think that came from a sense of loyalty rather than not having the guts to do it.

I'm sure that many of you would think that he's a doormat but he certainly hasn't finished last. He has a familly who really appreciate him. My mother absolutly adores him and is aware of how much he wants to help and doesn't take advantage of it at all. He's greatly admired by colleauges and friends. IMO, people here are being overly harsh on those who find it hard to say no.

Knex*

At the end of the day its your life, and you've only the one. Don't let people walk all over you and never ever take sh*t from someone when you don't have to.
In fact, I would always bring up the fact that they are trying to make me do something ridiculous. If its a lad a simple, "fúck off, not a hope" will always suffice.:D
When it comes to women I like to laugh and say "Cute. No chance", but thats just cos I am so damn cool like that... :rolleyes::cool:

Logical Fallacy

Giselle wrote: »

And a nice person should never be taken for granted.:)

But they are, daily. Millions of them.

Giselle

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

But they are, daily. Millions of them.

I said they shouldn't. Not that they aren't.

Overheal

Nice guys finish last, with women, because they are simply less flirty. Lots of times where Chivalry/Nobility would cause you to think it would be inappropriate to flirt with whatever girl at whatever time and place. Whereas someone who doesnt give as much **** as you will have no problem with doing it, and will end up having much higher success rates. It does apply to a lot of other scenarios too though, like getting passed up for promotion because the other guy took chances and bent protocol on his own initiative to get noticed. Nice guys always finish last because they wait for a written invitation.

Coles

Overheal wrote: »

Nice goes finish last, with women, because they are simply less flirty. Lots of times where Chivalry/Nobility would cause you to think it would be inappropriate to flirt with whatever girl at whatever time and place. Whereas someone who doesnt give as much **** as you will have no problem with doing it, and will end up having much higher success rates. It does apply to a lot of other scenarios too though, like getting passed up for promotion because the other guy took chances and bent protocol on his own initiative to get noticed. Nice guys always finish last because they wait for a written invitation.

Sorry, but what does 'nice goes finish last' mean? Actually, it's kind of difficult to make sense of any of this post.:(

Overheal

Coles wrote: »

Sorry, but what does 'nice goes finish last' mean? Actually, it's kind of difficult to make sense of any of this post.:(

Typo. And oh well.

Scanlas The 2nd

"Nice guys" have no one to blame but themselves for their woes.

Everyone needs to learn to be bad and break some rules for their own benefit when it is necessary. If you don't you are a brainwashed fool. Morality is all about benefitting the group. It is wrong to steal because it benefits the group to have that agreement in place. It isn't wrong to slaughter innocent animals with incredible pain because that rule wouldn't benefit the group. So not to take the occasional opportunity for yourself that would reap huge rewards when it arises because it breaks one of our little agreements is silly when you are already doing things far worse. You are being manipulated by the group. That is why "Nice guys" aren't respected.

parker kent

The phrase "nice guys" is being used to mean 1000 different things here. Nice guys is not a synonym for wall flower or for a guy that is afraid to talk to girls. Nor is it a synonym for a guy who lets people walk all over him. Nor is it a synonym for somebody who is manipulated by a group.

There is nothing wrong with being a nice guy, nor are all nice guys devoid of self respect. You can't use something with as many meanings as "nice guy" and use it to label a massive amount of the population. Generalisations are looked down upon here and I see the "nice guys" stuff as another generalisation. It is as valid as saying "all girls are X" or "All Irish are Y". In other words, "nice guys" should not be used as a banner phrase for all men without self respect who let people walk all over them. There are plenty of nice guys who are successful in all manner of areas.

The only place that a nice guy with self respect should finish last is in the bedroom!