Length of essays in English papers

Iceboy

I am just curious to find out how many pages you guys are planning on doing for each section in paper 2

For me its looking around

3-4 pages for Hamlet question
4-4 1/2 pages for comparative
3-3 1/2 pages for poetry

J_E

Usually for me it's

Main Text- 3/4
Comparative- 4/5
Poetry - 4/5

Really, it isn't necessary to do any more than that. I usually write lightning fast so I can get away with it.

Iceboy

Cydoniac wrote: »

Usually for me it's

Main Text- 3/4
Comparative- 4/5
Poetry - 4/5

Really, it isn't necessary to do any more than that. I usually write lightning fast so I can get away with it.

True, I can write very fast myself aswell but my writing tends to get a bit messy as a result and can lead to examiner not fully understanding some words or letters

arboroia

There is a good breakdown about how much to write on every section at http://leavingcertenglish.net/2011/05/10/how-much-to-write/.

Iceboy

arboroia wrote: »

There is a good breakdown about how much to write on every section at http://leavingcertenglish.net/2011/05/10/how-much-to-write/.

Thas for that, it says that anything less than 5 pages on the compative is flimsy O_O I was plannin on jus doin 4 , will have to slap some more info together to make up the page

Bbbbolger

Quality over quantity. Dont throw together another page at this stage if you're happy with what you have. It'll only serve to bring your mark down.

partyatmygaff

The minimum you'd want to write is 3 pages for Hamlet/Poetry and 4 pages for the comparative.

BrendaN_f

is this serious? i wrote a total of

6 pages for paper 1

and

2 pages for hamlet
2.5 pages for the comparative
2/3 of a page for unseen
just under 2 pages for the prescribed

and ended up with 87%. unless you have the writing of a 5 year old, i really dont see how people have time to write as much as you suggest

partyatmygaff

BrendaN_f wrote: »

is this serious? i wrote a total of

6 pages for paper 1

and

2 pages for hamlet
2.5 pages for the comparative
2/3 of a page for unseen
just under 2 pages for the prescribed

and ended up with 87%. unless you have the writing of a 5 year old, i really dont see how people have time to write as much as you suggest

I would be wary of writing so little in the actual Leaving Cert. Less than two pages for the prescribed poetry section is really pushing the limit.

UrbanSea

BrendaN_f wrote: »

is this serious? i wrote a total of

6 pages for paper 1

and

2 pages for hamlet
2.5 pages for the comparative
2/3 of a page for unseen
just under 2 pages for the prescribed

and ended up with 87%. unless you have the writing of a 5 year old, i really dont see how people have time to write as much as you suggest

I think you need to speed up your writing if you can't write more than that. If I was an examiner I would be very sceptical of so little.

BrendaN_f

BrendaN_f wrote: »

is this serious? i wrote a total of

6 pages for paper 1

and

2 pages for hamlet
2.5 pages for the comparative
2/3 of a page for unseen
just under 2 pages for the prescribed

and ended up with 87%. unless you have the writing of a 5 year old, i really dont see how people have time to write as much as you suggest

You must have very slow writing...
In the history exam you need to write about 20 pages in 2 hours 50

BubblesXD

My teacher corrects the English every year

She suggests for an A/B answer

5 pages Hamlet
5/6 pages Poetry
5/6 pages Comparative

I always go over on Comparative as its my favourite.
In the mocks I ended up doing seven pages on it and got an A so as much as waffle isn't impressive nothings to say the fact you have written loads of pages means that it is waffle

I really doubt in the actual exams you will even get a C for writing that little.

Bbbbolger

A little bit unfair to say dont you think? Two pages of well supported, coherant and insightful discussion is worth a lot more than five pages of poorly supported, repetetive, badly thought out "discussion." Too many students get caught up on the "how much did you write?" culture. The leaving cert isn't based on writing speed. A well thought out short answer will always out-score waffle and theres no reason why a good short answer cant score the same as a good long answer. If it answers all aspects of the question effectively and with an excellent level of language then it deserves the same grade.

BrendaN_f

BubblesXD wrote: »

My teacher corrects the English every year

She suggests for an A/B answer

5 pages Hamlet
5/6 pages Poetry
5/6 pages Comparative

I always go over on Comparative as its my favourite.
In the mocks I ended up doing seven pages on it and got an A so as much as waffle isn't impressive nothings to say the fact you have written loads of pages means that it is waffle

I really doubt in the actual exams you will even get a C for writing that little.

haha, do you? and what made your mock examiner so much more competent than mine?

Gumbi

Bbbbolger wrote: »

A little bit unfair to say dont you think? Two pages of well supported, coherant and insightful discussion is worth a lot more than five pages of poorly supported, repetetive, badly thought out "discussion." Too many students get caught up on the "how much did you write?" culture. The leaving cert isn't based on writing speed. A well thought out short answer will always out-score waffle and theres no reason why a good short answer cant score the same as a good long answer. If it answers all aspects of the question effectively and with an excellent level of language then it deserves the same grade.

There's no way you can adequately discuss a minimum of 4 poems and give a personal response in less than 2 pages.

Bbbbolger

Well you could score full marks in Language and Mechanics which is 20 marks. I'd argue that a score of 8-10 could be achieved in both Purpose and Coherance which would give a maximum of 40/50 which is a B1 answer. I would agree that 2 pages, particularly on the poetry, wouldn't be sufficient for an A1 answer but if the rest of your paper is up to scratch an A2 overall would be achievable. I think I was a little unclear with my earlier post. I dont think an A1 could be achieved on Paper 2 with that amount of writing but a B1 or A2 could be. combine this with an excellent Paper 1 and you have an A1 without too much writing on Paper 2.

Fireball07

Gumbi wrote: »

There's no way you can adequately discuss a minimum of 4 poems and give a personal response in less than 2 pages.

This would be the point, I think.


Nothing wrong with writing 2 pages if you can argue a valid number of points and discuss 4 poems. But I don't think it is possible to do that comprehensively in so little space. Unless your writing is quite small.

BOHtox

It's all about quality. A corrector told me that in paper 1 composing (100 marks) she gave an A in that question for slightly less that 2 pages. it's all quality. I have a few essays prepared for P2 and it's as follows
Single- 3 1/2
Comparative- 4
Poetry-slightly less that 3. I've only ever been told my poetry answers are too short. The other two are fine.

GoldFour4

BrendaN_f wrote: »

is this serious? i wrote a total of

6 pages for paper 1

and

2 pages for hamlet
2.5 pages for the comparative
2/3 of a page for unseen
just under 2 pages for the prescribed

and ended up with 87%. unless you have the writing of a 5 year old, i really dont see how people have time to write as much as you suggest

Im calling BS on this. Comparative in 2 and a half is impossible, even with tiny writing. Likewise I dont know how you can write a poetry answer in the same length as a question b.

Bbbbolger

malachyscott wrote: »

Im calling BS on this. Comparative in 2 and a half is impossible, even with tiny writing. Likewise I dont know how you can write a poetry answer in the same length as a question b. It would be interesting to see how short your unseen poetry is.

He posted in that that he writes two thirds of a page on the unseen.

polka dot

Prescribed poetry - 4
Unseen poetry (all parts) - 1 1/2 ... tops
Hamlet - 4
Comparative - 6

My comparative is scarily long in comparison. There's just way too much to write about!

BrendaN_f

malachyscott wrote: »

Im calling BS on this. Comparative in 2 and a half is impossible, even with tiny writing. Likewise I dont know how you can write a poetry answer in the same length as a question b.

why not? poetry and question b are worth the exact same marks. half a page is more than enough for each poem. factoring in introduction and conclusion, 3 pages is the max i think i could manage on poetry, without starting to babble

J_E

Comparative = 5 – 7. Anything less is flimsy. You do have 3 texts after all."

What? That's just stupid.

LilMissCiara

A girl I know said her boyfriend was told last year to write around 15 pages for Comparative.. I hope she/he was taking the píss!

I write ~3 for Hamlet and Poetry and ~4 for Comparative. Anything else is a bonus!

Remember Quality > Quantity. The truest cliché ever!

Iceboy

This is exactly why the english leaving cert system is quite flawed, Its all down to the person who marks your test's persoanl preferences, some may feel 4 for comparitive is more than sufficient and some may feel its flimsy, which is ridiculous really.

almostnever

I can't remember how much I wrote in '09, but last year I wrote just over 3 pages for the single text, just under 4 pages for the comparative, 1 for the unseen poem and 3 for the studied poetry and I got an A1. Definitely didn't write a lot more than that in '09 although I'm fuzzy on the details and got an A1 then, too. Try not to focus too much on how much you'll write, and don't compare afterwards either or you'll get freaked out. I remember a guy last year who wrote eight pages for his King Lear answer, everyone else thought that they'd done awfully because they'd only written three or four, but they were fine. Don't tack more onto the end of an answer because you think it's too short either, that's rarely if ever a good idea and I know a few people who did that last year when they answered on a poet they hadn't studied and remembered details of another poem when they'd finished their answer and concluded, even though they weren't making any coherent points and destroyed their essay as a whole they just wrote a summary of a poem at the end with no analysis because they thought "if it's longer, it's better." Oh, and good luck everyone! Honestly, it'll be grand. The worst part of the exam is writing for so long! :P

irishgirl10

Quality lads, not quantity!!

Gumbi

polka dot wrote: »

Prescribed poetry - 4
Unseen poetry (all parts) - 1 1/2 ... tops
Hamlet - 4
Comparative - 6

My comparative is scarily long in comparison. There's just way too much to write about!

Looks reasonable to me. I'd be very happy if I managed that much.

J_E

If you effectively deal with the question and cover what it asks, showing you know your stuff, they're not looking for reams of paper to give you that A.

implausible

Iceboy wrote: »

This is exactly why the english leaving cert system is quite flawed, Its all down to the person who marks your test's persoanl preferences, some may feel 4 for comparitive is more than sufficient and some may feel its flimsy, which is ridiculous really.

Rubbish! It's not down to how long the examiner feels it should be. It's down to the examiner applying the marking scheme.....and if you look these up, you'll find they don't prescribe how many pages to write.

If you answer the question properly, you'll get the marks. Students have been known to get As discussing only 3 poems in the Poetry section and only discussing two texts on the comparative.

QUALITY NOT QUANTITY

Bbbbolger

Also, on the matter of the amount of pages, writing size has a lot to do with it. I have very small writing. I can fit 3 pages of a few of my friends writing onto 2 pages. So one persons 7 page comparative could be 4 or 5 for you if they have large writing and you have small writing.

BubblesXD

BrendaN_f wrote: »

haha, do you? and what made your mock examiner so much more competent than mine?

I never said yours was more competent than mine. Realistically discussing your comparative in 2.5 pages is a joke. That is all

MikeHough

Bbbbolger wrote: »

Also, on the matter of the amount of pages, writing size has a lot to do with it. I have very small writing. I can fit 3 pages of a few of my friends writing onto 2 pages. So one persons 7 page comparative could be 4 or 5 for you if they have large writing and you have small writing.

ya i hear 10-12 is the average words per line so base the average answer length on that i guess and change it to suit your word count per line

rockycoolness22

I've found for myself that my comparative usually fits just over 4 pages or so!
For Hamlet I do between 3 and 4 pages and poetry about 3

Dr. Ring

Honestly it's not about quantity, it's about quality. I wrote TWO pages for my King Lear essay, three-four for my poetry (Yeats) and probably close to seven or eight pages in total for my comparitive (30/40 question). Maybe a page for unseen and tht was it.

I know the comparitive was long but if you make good arguements, use the PQE rule and keep your answer sounding fresh and fluid you should do very well.

Dont panic tonight about length guys. Make your point and leave it. An extra page or two of rambling is an awful lot worse than someone who was smart enough to call it a day after a page and a half.

Best of luck to all of ye tomorrow. I'll be thinkin of ye

Salty

Also, if you're running out of time on a question, leave it and move on. It's easier to got from 0-40 in a new question, than 80-90 in the one you were working on. Hope that makes sense.:P

BrendaN_f

BubblesXD wrote: »

I never said yours was more competent than mine. Realistically discussing your comparative in 2.5 pages is a joke. That is all

well then, if our examiners were of equal competence, and we both got the same score, despite the length differences, then why is it a joke? maybe you just aren't very concise

j123456789

Dr. Ring wrote: »

Honestly it's not about quantity, it's about quality. I wrote TWO pages for my King Lear essay, three-four for my poetry (Yeats) and probably close to seven or eight pages in total for my comparitive (30/40 question). Maybe a page for unseen and tht was it.

I know the comparitive was long but if you make good arguements, use the PQE rule and keep your answer sounding fresh and fluid you should do very well.

Dont panic tonight about length guys. Make your point and leave it. An extra page or two of rambling is an awful lot worse than someone who was smart enough to call it a day after a page and a half.

Best of luck to all of ye tomorrow. I'll be thinkin of ye

What is the PQE rule?

Bbbbolger

PQE equals point, quote, explain. You make your point, give a relevant quotation and then explain the point with reference to the quotation.

easkey92

How long should you do for each question in english paper 1 & 2 ?

J_E

Composition should be between 3-5 pages.
Unseen poem, about 1-2 pages.
You should be aiming for a good 3-4 pages for the long questions on Paper 2, more if you actually have more to say, not just waffling on.

Remember though it's ALWAYS quality over quantity.

randylonghorn

Folks, as someone who has corrected HL English, I can't emphasise enough:

QUALITY, NOT QUANTITY!!

Dr. Ring wrote: »

Dont panic tonight about length guys.

Good advice for the LC ... and for life! :pac:

DaveMur1

randylonghorn wrote: »

QUALITY, NOT QUANTITY!!


Good advice for the LC ... and for life! :pac:

Well this thread just got dirty

What if someone preferred a longer piece over a small one that's used well ????
:pac:

randylonghorn

DaveMur1 wrote: »

Well this thread just got dirty

It did?

*checks innocent face in the mirror and adjusts halo slightly*

DaveMur1 wrote: »

What if someone preferred a longer piece over a small one that's used well ????
:pac:

It's how well it's done and the end result that's more important always, not the length.

Any wo corrector will tell you that!!

murphp

My comparative will be 6 pages.
My poetry will be around 4.
I hope to write 4 pages on Hamlet.

My teacher recommends at least 4 for them all, and over 4 for comparative

spurious

Cydoniac wrote: »

If you effectively deal with the question and cover what it asks, showing you know your stuff, they're not looking for reams of paper to give you that A.

Exactly - and one of the skills they are looking for in a high scoring candidate is to get to the point, make it clearly, back it up and finish. The last thing they want is another x number of pages saying the same thing.

Gumbi

spurious wrote: »

Exactly - and one of the skills they are looking for in a high scoring candidate is to get to the point, make it clearly, back it up and finish. The last thing they want is another x number of pages saying the same thing.

I agree completely. however, as a general rule of thumb, neither the comparative, poetry or Hamlet could be adequately answered in less than two pages. MAYBE Hamlet, but it's a stretch and it depends on the question asked.

Whiskey757

How long is each answer expected to be?

partyatmygaff

Generally speaking...

Paper 1
50 Marks = 2 A4 pages
15 Marks = 3/5 A4 page
20 Marks = 4/5 A4 page
100 Marks = 4 A4 pages

Good luck.

randylonghorn

Again I'll say it ... concentrate on quality not quantity!

Whiskey757

randylonghorn wrote: »

Again I'll say it ... concentrate on quality not quantity!

Haha yeah I know that but I'd rather do both :P