Turning left and right

Chicke

When I'm turning left I mirror signal and break to get down to about 20 km an hour and then change into second gear comfortably,and then go around the corner with my foot covering the break but not pressing it and continuing on.
Is this ok progression? What are my observation points when turning left.I generally do centre mirror and side mirror and then signal.is that enough or should I be doing more observation just as I take the corner
Thanks

Reloc8

I would say as regards observation :-

Left Mirror and rear view mirror.

Signal.

Forward/left observation to ensure turn is clear for you looking particularly for pedestrians.

Left Mirror (checking especially for bikes coming up your inside)

Make turn. Forward observation.

Rear view mirror.

Drive on.

I get the feeling a lot of people give themselves whiplash checking the left mirror over and over and don't demonstrate good observations into the turn, leading to a lot of 'wtf I got 6 grade 2 for observation turning left I looked in the mirror 18 times before every turn'.

I'm very open to correction from driving instructors on here - that's more or less how I do it though.

Davy

@Reloc8 you aren't checking you right mirror. I know your going left but you still need to check it. If you have indicated left and the cyclist or vehicle behind has seen this, than may decide to move out to the right as you turn and you wont be aware of this. In a truck you always have to do this because of tail-swing, but I would always advise it even in a car.

Grimpeur

As well as checking all mirrors I'd do a quick check of your left-hand blind spot in case a bike has snook up the inside.

Crasp

You always have to look over your shoulder to check your blind spots when changing direction.

If you're turning left, the easiest way to do this in one fluid move is:

Right hand mirror, centre mirror, left hand mirror, look over left shoulder (out the rear passenger window) to check your blindspot.

This way, you sweep from right to left in one easy, fluid motion.

brian076

Reloc8 wrote: »

I would say as regards observation :-

Left Mirror and rear view mirror.

Signal.

Forward/left observation to ensure turn is clear for you looking particularly for pedestrians.

Left Mirror (checking especially for bikes coming up your inside)

Make turn. Forward observation.

Rear view mirror.

Drive on.

I get the feeling a lot of people give themselves whiplash checking the left mirror over and over and don't demonstrate good observations into the turn, leading to a lot of 'wtf I got 6 grade 2 for observation turning left I looked in the mirror 18 times before every turn'.

I'm very open to correction from driving instructors on here - that's more or less how I do it though.

That's the correct procedure.

Davy wrote: »

@Reloc8 you aren't checking you right mirror. I know your going left but you still need to check it. If you have indicated left and the cyclist or vehicle behind has seen this, than may decide to move out to the right as you turn and you wont be aware of this. In a truck you always have to do this because of tail-swing, but I would always advise it even in a car.

You only need to check your mirrors in pairs when turning, ie rearview and left when going left and vice versa for turning right, there's no need to check all 3, if you're checking your rearview mirror on a regular basis before turning you should be aware of whats behind and to the side of you before reachinh the junction.

Crasp wrote: »

You always have to look over your shoulder to check your blind spots when changing direction.

Do this if you want to fail your test. You should not look over your shoulder while the car is moving it's very dangerous and testers will immediatley mark you for "Reaction to Hazard", possibly even a Grade 3 fault for poor forward observation.

As mentioned above, if you've been taking proper observation on the approach to the junction you should be aware of what's behnd you. It's more important to look into the road you're turning into to make sure nothing is blocking your path.

timogen

Brian are you saying you never check your bindspot over your shoulder as you join a motorway.:eek:

brian076

timogen wrote: »

Brian are you saying you never check your bindspot over your shoulder as you join a motorway.:eek:

No you don't look over your shoulder, you can check your blindspot by glancing at your shoulder, often called "kissing the parrott", and your peripheral vision will pick up anything in your blindspot, but at the same time you're still keeping an eye on the road ahead.

What would happen if the car in front of you jammed on their brakes while you're looking over your shoulder out the passanger door window, while travelling at 80 or 100kmh?

My original point was in relation to turning left and right, and I can't think of any situation which would require you to look over your shoulder while moving. Even if you're changing lane, you should only glance at your shoulder if necessary, however in most cases regular glances in your rearview and either door mirror should be sufficient.

timogen

Brian i,ve just come back from blanchardstown,heading from the main st at the garda station to head towards coolmine at the junction there u get a slip light on to snugborough rd. As you say i had to kiss the parrot as you say i call it glancing over your shoulder through the back passenger window to see the blindspot.
Are you telling me i would fail my test for this,as if i don't check i could be pulling out in front of a car or even worse a cyclist.
I believe you would fail a test for not glancing over your shoulder.

brian076

timogen wrote: »

Brian i,ve just come back from blanchardstown,heading from the main st at the garda station to head towards coolmine at the junction there u get a slip light on to snugborough rd. As you say i had to kiss the parrot as you say i call it glancing over your shoulder through the back passenger window to see the blindspot.
Are you telling me i would fail my test for this,as if i don't check i could be pulling out in front of a car or even worse a cyclist.
I believe you would fail a test for not glancing over your shoulder.

What speed were you doing when completing this manoeuvre? You're original point was relating to entering a motorway, and my reply was that you don't look over you're shoulder when travelling at 80/100kmh.

There's a big difference in both situations, the slip road you refer to would mean that you're travelling at a very slow speed and would be similar to emerging from a T junction where you peep and creep.

I take your point that in this situation you're moving while looking over your shoulder but the point I was making related to the other poster who said that you must always look over your shoulder when turning. This is incorrect and very poor advice to learner drivers.

timogen

Agreed they are different speeds but are really the same situation. On a motorway if you have not checked your blindspot looking through the back passenger window when going to merge id call that dangerous driving and you should have assessed what is happening in front of you already to have your speed right and be ready if someone brakes.
As for checking over your shoulder when turning,If you were turning left at a junction there is a cyclist now in your blindspot that got there from the pavement you had not seen him go there how do you check for him?

brian076

timogen wrote: »

Agreed they are different speeds but are really the same situation. On a motorway if you have not checked your blindspot looking through the back passenger window when going to merge id call that dangerous driving and you should have assessed what is happening in front of you already to have your speed right and be ready if someone brakes.
As for checking over your shoulder when turning,If you were turning left at a junction there is a cyclist now in your blindspot that got there from the pavement you had not seen him go there how do you check for him?

Firstly most motorways now have quite long slip roads so it's likely that you're not entering at an angle that will require a look out the back passenger window, in many cases you will actually see what's in the lane you're entering by checking your right mirror, assuming you have it adjusted correctly, or by a shoulder glance as already mentioned.

If you're driving down a road and a cyclist suddenly appears from nowhere on your left, I would suggest that you haven't been paying attention to what's going on ahead of you. Can you honestly think of any situation where you're turning left into a side road from a main road, having probably slowed down from 50 to 20kmh and suddenly a cyclist appears on your left. Where could they have come from?

The most common fault on a driving test is "Observation Turning Left", where the applicant is looking in the wrong direction either just before or at the point of turn. Typically this often occurs when turning left out of a T junction while pulling out looking to the right.

To use your junction in Blanch as an example, if you were on your driving test and came out of that slip road looking over your shoulder while entering the new road, you would get a Grade 2 mark at the least, but probably a Grade 3. If you don't have a good enough view both left and right as you approach the junction you should either crawl out at about 5kmh or come to a stop. Just because a junction has a Yield sign or flashing amber arrow doesn't mean that you may not have to stop.

timogen

I'm not going into this now but a cyclist could have come from many directions you might not have seen,like a pedestrian entrance to a housing estate that was in your blindspot and from the pavement of that entrance to the road still in your blindspot.
Some motorway slip roads are long but i use a couple of very short ones daily,like from the m1 from the port tunnell if your on the right hand lane to enter the m50,or the right hand lane to enter the m50 from ballymun or to get northbound on the m50 from the blanchardstown roundabout has a very short run out,checking through the back passenger window is a must.
But as you pulled crasp up on it.He was on about glancing over his left shoulder as he was about to turn left he never said he was moving,
If he was at a stop we know how crasp would check his blind spot and how would your way of checking it be different?

brian076

timogen wrote: »

I'm not going into this now but a cyclist could have come from many directions you might not have seen,like a pedestrian entrance to a housing estate that was in your blindspot and from the pavement of that entrance to the road still in your blindspot.
Some motorway slip roads are long but i use a couple of very short ones daily,like from the m1 from the port tunnell if your on the right hand lane to enter the m50,or the right hand lane to enter the m50 from ballymun or to get northbound on the m50 from the blanchardstown roundabout has a very short run out,checking through the back passenger window is a must.
But as you pulled crasp up on it.He was on about glancing over his left shoulder as he was about to turn left he never said he was moving,
If he was at a stop we know how crasp would check his blind spot and how would your way of checking it be different?

The sequence for turning left or right is MSMM: Mirrors, Signal, Mirrors, Manoeuvre. The tester will also be looking for you to take observation into the road in which you're turning. There is no requirement in the driving test to check your blindspot when turning and to do so whether you agree or not will almost certainly lead to a mark.

As for the comment made by crasp, he stated that you must always look over your shoulder when changing direction, to me that infers while moving, but maybe I picked him up wrong

timogen

Just to wind this up i went to the rules of the road book.
Page 120: Joining a motorway;As you approach on the slip road,check in your mirrors and your blindspot for a safe gap in traffic in the left hand of the motorway.
Page 172-173: Cyclists and motorcyclists:In particular,watch for cyclists and motorcyclists,when stopping and turning,especially when turning left.
The best way to take care near cyclists and motorcyclists is to use your mirrors and recheck blindspots.
Page 123 :On the motorway;overtaking.Before you start to overtake,remember 'mirror,signal,mirror,manoeuvre',and look in(NOT GLANCE) in your blindspots.
There are a few more but i think these sum it up.
Where are you getting your info from that checking your blindspot is a fault?
Found this in the preparing for your driving test leaflet,the following are the most common faults which give rise to failing the driving test,the very first one is:inadequate observation moving off ,at junctions,at roundabouts and when changing lanes.
So to me not checking your blindspot is a fault.

brian076

I never said that you should never check your blindspots, of course there are occasions when it's necessary, however it's not necessary everytime you turn left or right.

Where am I getting this info? Directly from the RSA while working as a driving tester.

Btw, in your driving test, observation faults are marked when not checking your door mirrors, or not taking proper observation on the approach to junctions, roundabouts etc. The only time that the tester will expect u to look over your shoulder is when moving off from the side of the road from a stationary position or during the reverse manoeuvre

timogen

Are you telling me that while the r.o.t.r state that it is nessesary to check and even recheck a blindspots while turning left and while changing lanes,the rsa are telling there driving testers to give a fault to some who does check there blindspots?
Do you believe the rsa are then going against what they put in the r.o.t.r.
Now while i believe common sence as to when you should check a blindspot with a glance over your shoulder,Did you ever give a person a fault for checking there blindspot?

brian076

As already stated it depends on the situation, if a blindspot check is required that's no problem, but if someone is looking behind them when they should be looking ahead that's a different problem

In answer to your question, yes I did, in fact I had to grab the wheel one day to avoid an accident where an applicant was looking over his left shoulder before changing lane just as the car in from hit his brakes.

Maybe I haven't been making myself clear to you, but again I will say that there are times when it's necessary to check your blindspots, but it's not necessary to check them every time you turn left or right as you will have picked up what's behind and to the side of you if you've been taking proper observation on the approach to the junction.

ha-ya-said-what

brian076 wrote: »

Do this if you want to fail your test. You should not look over your shoulder while the car is moving it's very dangerous and testers will immediatley mark you for "Reaction to Hazard", possibly even a Grade 3 fault for poor forward observation.

As mentioned above, if you've been taking proper observation on the approach to the junction you should be aware of what's behnd you. It's more important to look into the road you're turning into to make sure nothing is blocking your path.

I was told this as well before by an instructor. By looking over your shoulder, trying to see all around you what, your not paying attention to what's infront of you. The quick glance as mentioned by Brian is acceptable, but not the craning your neck trying to see for miles back over your shoulder like you see some do.

Position, is another one you have to remember when making turns, if you go off into a S shape when making your turn cos you haven't stopped to take a turn in the right position (if you have to stop) or are in the wrong position while making a turn you'll be marked too!

timogen

What i would have said is check your blindspots where applicable.
Brian:Why i have an issue with what your saying as you stated you don't look over your shoulder when travelling at 80/100kmh, the other halves friend was in an R.T.A on a motorway in which her son was killed.She was done for dangerous driving as the accident was said to be caused by her not checking her blindspot as she had not checked over her shoulder travelling at 120kmh when going to change lanes.

timogen

ha-ya-said-what wrote: »

I was told this as well before by an instructor. By looking over your shoulder, trying to see all around you what, your not paying attention to what's infront of you. The quick glance as mentioned by Brian is acceptable, but not the craning your neck trying to see for miles back over your shoulder like you see some do.

Position, is another one you have to remember when making turns, if you go off into a S shape when making your turn cos you haven't stopped to take a turn in the right position (if you have to stop) or are in the wrong position while making a turn you'll be marked too!

I am also talking about a quick glance as brian called it kissing the parrott i only differ to brian when it should be done.

brian076

Ok maybe I should have clarified my original statement. This is a Learning to Drive forum and as such I wouldn't want any learner looking over their shoulder while doing 80/100kmh. You can argue that they shouldn't be on a motorway anyway but plenty of national roads have these speed limits.
The op was referring to normal left and right turns and my comm ents related to that. You brought up motorways and I still contend that you can check your blindspots in most cases without having to look over your shoulder.

Agree or disagree I don't really care but we're just going around in circles heref

brian076

Ok maybe I should have clarified my original statement. This is a Learning to Drive forum and as such I wouldn't want any learner looking over their shoulder while doing 80/100kmh. You can argue that they shouldn't be on a motorway anyway but plenty of national roads have these speed limits.
The op was referring to normal left and right turns and my comm ents related to that. You brought up motorways and I still contend that you can check your blindspots in most cases without having to look over your shoulder.

Agree or disagree I don't really care but we're just going around in circles heref

timogen

Now we are getting there ,this is a learning to drive forum not a how to pass your test forum,as you say you don't want a learner driver checking there blindspot over there shoulder at 100kmh, well i do.Learning to drive is not only passing your test it's also about learning to drive properly and safely.
The waterford bypass has a speed of 80/100kmh which has two lanes i am sure there are plenty of more roads like this in ireland that learner drivers can use,if i was in the overtaking lane i'd want the learner driver checking his blindspot for me if he was about to overtake something.
But it just goes to show the test is not good enough as it stands and must bring motorway driving into it.
While i agree with you on how to check a blindspot with the glance over your shoulder,learner drivers must master the glance at speed aswell as once they pass there test they will have to do it on the motorway at much higher speeds.

ha-ya-said-what

If you need to look over your shoulder (craning) while driving on a motorway you'd seriously want to consider adjusting your mirrors! I drive the motorway every day back and forth in peak traffic and never once need to look over my shoulder, my mirrors show all pretty much and i pick up on anything in a blindspot when checkin them, just the way i was trained.

The amount of times i see people slow down and brake on motorways to look over their shoulder is unreal! Learners are trained to check blindspots and what to be looking out for in mirrors, when to glance etc. They chose the adapt their own methods of driving after the test, so the test can't be blamed for not covering the necessity of checkin blind spots.

timogen

ha-ya-said-what wrote: »

If you need to look over your shoulder (craning) while driving on a motorway you'd seriously want to consider adjusting your mirrors! I drive the motorway every day back and forth in peak traffic and never once need to look over my shoulder, my mirrors show all pretty much and i pick up on anything in a blindspot when checkin them, just the way i was trained.

The amount of times i see people slow down and brake on motorways to look over their shoulder is unreal! Learners are trained to check blindspots and what to be looking out for in mirrors, when to glance etc. They chose the adapt their own methods of driving after the test, so the test can't be blamed for not covering the necessity of checkin blind spots.

Good god man read my last post and tell me how i said to check a blind spot, where did you get craning to look over your shoulder from.The whole reason for checking a blindspot is you can't see it with your mirrors.Then go and check the rsa web page and look at the ad campaign which started last month and come back to me and tell me i'm wrong.It's people that don't check there blindspots are causing accidents.
LOOK UP,better safer driving tv ads (in the search) on the rsa website the driver clearly looks over his shoulder to check his blindspot.

ADIDriving

I want to stay out of this arguement. But you may resolve it and agree, if you define what you consider looking over your shoulder and checking your blind spot in terms of degrees; 90' at speed 135' when manouvering for example.

timogen

90' for checking your blindspot on a motorway, like in the rsa ad is spot on as you can look through the back passenger window with your peripheral vision.