Replacement for Amp / Processor combo

leinsterman

My current system (which is 14 years old) and consists of an Arcam Alpha 9 and Yamaha DSP E800 ... The Alpha recently developed a fault and I'm trying to decide to upgrade or repair or do both..

When I originally bought the system I went for a two amp configuration. This is because music is more important to me. I don't want to compromise it with lots of unnecessary processing... surround for movies is something I like having (but I'm not as fussy about) ...

Over the years I have had to buy other bits and pieces to allow connection of accumulated gear (e.g. 4 way Octava HDMI Switch with TOSLINK) .. meaning I essentially have the Alpha configured as a power amp to drive my main speakers (Castle Harlech's mains, Harlech Sub) ... this works really well.. (Surrounds are B&W CC6 and a pair of Solids driven by the E800)

I'm considering replacing everything (Alpha, DSP, Switch) with something like the Yamaha 1067 or 2067 and I had a few questions ... (Note: I'll also need to get something to allow connection of my record deck which is MC! .. cheap and nasty will be fine here) ...

Is a one AV amp solution going to give me a similar or better listening experience for music over cheaper hi-fi amp & processor? If so what AV amps offer the best unadulterated stereo listening experience?

Is the Yamaha 2067 worth the extra money over the 1067 and will either give me the best straight through music only experience over competitors? (Put another way - what is the best unadulterated stereo experience you can deliver under £1,000 from an AV amp or Amp/Processor combo)

Do you have the 1067 or 2067 available for demo?

Budget - no more than £1,000 including the Phono MC stage ...

Richersounds.ie: John

leinsterman wrote: »

My current system (which is 14 years old) and consists of an Arcam Alpha 9 and Yamaha DSP E800 ... The Alpha recently developed a fault and I'm trying to decide to upgrade or repair or do both..

When I originally bought the system I went for a two amp configuration. This is because music is more important to me. I don't want to compromise it with lots of unnecessary processing... surround for movies is something I like having (but I'm not as fussy about) ...

Over the years I have had to buy other bits and pieces to allow connection of accumulated gear (e.g. 4 way Octava HDMI Switch with TOSLINK) .. meaning I essentially have the Alpha configured as a power amp to drive my main speakers (Castle Harlech's mains, Harlech Sub) ... this works really well.. (Surrounds are B&W CC6 and a pair of Solids driven by the E800)

I'm considering replacing everything (Alpha, DSP, Switch) with something like the Yamaha 1067 or 2067 and I had a few questions ... (Note: I'll also need to get something to allow connection of my record deck which is MC! .. cheap and nasty will be fine here) ...

Is a one AV amp solution going to give me a similar or better listening experience for music over cheaper hi-fi amp & processor? If so what AV amps offer the best unadulterated stereo listening experience?

Is the Yamaha 2067 worth the extra money over the 1067 and will either give me the best straight through music only experience over competitors? (Put another way - what is the best unadulterated stereo experience you can deliver under £1,000 from an AV amp or Amp/Processor combo)

Do you have the 1067 or 2067 available for demo?

Budget - no more than £1,000 including the Phono MC stage ...

Leinster,

Thanks for the post and apologies for the delay getting back to you.

Thats an interesting conundrum! and the Yamaha 1067 will do most of what you are looking for and sound well, and the 2067 will be even better - the 1067 is now a finished line for us but I do have one 2067 left that I would clear at £699.95 / €799.99 - HOWEVER - to be honest if Audio/2 Channel quality is important to you I would really have a look at the Denon AVR3311 as an option at £849.95 - if you really do want the best unadulterated stereo listening experience WITH excellent surround qualities the 3311 is a real zinger - add in the optional Apple Airplay to the excellent list of features and and the 3311 is a must buy -especially for the stereo reproduction.

I would add in a Cambridge Audio 640P (see Review here) to look after the Moving Coil turntable at £99.95 (OK I know we are getting close to the budget now). We are doing the 3311 INCLUDING a free Airplay upgrade at the moment..

Interesting query anyway so keep me posted if we can assist in any way!

Best regards,

John Mc & Crew

leinsterman

Richersounds.ie: John wrote: »

HOWEVER - to be honest if Audio/2 Channel quality is important to you I would really have a look at the Denon AVR3311 as an option at £849.95 - if you really do want the best unadulterated stereo listening experience WITH excellent surround qualities the 3311 is a real zinger - add in the optional Apple Airplay to the excellent list of features and and the 3311 is a must buy -especially for the stereo reproduction.

Thanks for the reply John ...

This is interesting ... you are the third person who pushed me towards Denon ... the first being another store, which TBH didn't seem to have another option in the price bracket anyway and therefore wanted me to wait until the new Denon line comes in later this month .. the second being a person on AVForums who suggests getting an older line reduced in price like the 3808 or 4808.. or Anthem MRX AV Amps

Given that I've been perfectly happy with a 14 year old Yamaha DSP until now, I doubt latest and greatest will really matter to me; so I'm likely looking at something end of line with reduced price (assuming it comes with superior straight through audio and a little future proofing in the form of plenty of extra source connections) ...

Your Denon suggestion is intriguing and I could be convinced if it offers a reasonable jump up (in Stereo Audio) over either the Yamaha 2067 or my current Alpha 9 system ... my biggest single worry in all of this is being very disappointed with the stereo performance of any AV amp over the wonderful warm sounding Alpha9 (note: my guitar amps all have valves ).. I'd really want something that offers an upgrade from this platform ...

Here's a little more about my sources which may help you -

1. Apple TV (new version) - connected via HMDI & TOS link Optical (using Octava Switch)
2. Panasonic Blu Ray BD60 - connected via HMDI & TOS link Optical (via Octava)
3. PC Music Server (main source) - connected via DVI/HMDI & TOS Optical (via Octava) (Creative Audigy II Platinum Pro & GeForce7600GT)
4. UPC Set Top Box / PVR - connected via Scart & Co-Ax Audio
5. Apple Universal Dock - connected via Phono / composite Video not used currently)
6. Onkyo DV-S535 DVD (a Richer Sounds purchase ) - currently unconnected but it does play CD's really well so I may to add it back in for audio use if with the new AV Amp facilitates it
7. Dual CS 435 Turntable (another, sadly disused, Richer sounds purchase :P)
8. Drobo/Droboshare NAS (not connected but its content in the form of backed up Apple & WMP libraries will be available via Ethernet in the new system)

I should also note that I need a second Speaker Zone on the new system to drive a pair of B&W 600i speakers in the bedroom.

I have some concerns about lack of optical I/P's of the Denon AMP ...that being said perhaps some of my currently TOSlink connected sources may offer audio over HMDI ... but as the system is currently configured I'd be short one I/P ... I'd rather have the opposite, i.e. 1 spare ... I want to remove the need for any switch devices (such as the Octava).

I'm also guessing that this Apple Airplay feature of the Denon offers nothing useful over Apple TV .. but do please correct me if I'm wrong.

Can you also please comment on the following -

• Price of the next step (as opposed to marginal) upgrade you would recommend (for unadulterated stereo audio in an AV Amp) from the Denon 3311 (just out of curiosity)
• If my AppleTV and Panasonic BD60 support audio be connected via HMDI? (I'm using good quality leads but can't recall their specification)
• Key differences between the Yamaha 2067 & Denon 3311 (any any other AV Amp you might recommend)
• Do all HDMI leads come with audio or should I be worried about potentially discovering that mine need to be upgraded?
• I see you seem to have some link with the Philip's store in Dublin, does this mean that if anything goes wrong I can return items here?

I'd be willing to pop up to Belfast for a final listen when I'm ready to purchase if you can put together a reference system (assuming you have a demo room?) ... but lets try to figure out the main contenders first ... if nothing else it'll let me try out the digitial TV & DAB options in my car which is UK Spec

Richersounds.ie: Dave

Hi Leinsterman.

Sorry, just caught this post and thought I would chuck a curve ball your way.

Go for the AVR3311 and if you are not happy with the audio performance, use the pre-out on the Denon into the Arcam and Bobs your uncle.

You have all the features and A/V performance of the AVR3311 but you can still enjoy the sound of the Arcam.

On another note, the Denon AVR3311 is one of the best musical receivers around. The only other one that could say is any better for similar money is the Marantz SR7005.

A stunning receiver and I can do one of these at £999.95.

This has 6 HDMI inputs and 3 Optical, so I suspect it may suit you slightly better on connections.

The Apple TV appears to output digital via the HDMI (depending on version and software) and the BD60 could be connected HDMI to the receiver.

The Yam 2067 does not support airplay, it does have 2 extra HDMI inputs though. The Denon has a better warmth to the sound compared to the Yamaha. The Denon uses an Anchor Bay ABT2010 chip for video upscaling whereas the Yamaha use an HQV VHD1900. The Denon has 2 x usb inputs compared to the Yamaha's 1, the Yamaha has 3 optical inputs. There are't really too many other differences as they both have 2 x HDMI outputs, ihpone app, ethernet, 3D with audio return, similar power output, DLNA access etc etc.

They don't come with any HDMI cables and we always suggest going for decent cables, especially for the better quality sources. The Cambridge and QED ranges are a good bet.

The items can be returned to the Philips store if anything goes wrong and we offer a 5 year parts and labour warranty that is refundable is not used for 10% of the price of the receiver.

Belfast presently doesn't have a demo room, but as you are buying this over distance, we can offer a 7 day refund on it and it's best trialled in your own home with your speakers.

I hope this helps but let me know what you think.

ATB


Dave

leinsterman

Thanks Dave ... some very useful info there ...

Your suggestion to get the Arcam repaired as a back up to a possible disappointing purchase is one I have considered. But in this event I think I'd probably be better sticking to the E800/Alpha9 combo ... I couldn't justify spending £600+ for a bit more convenience, a few new nice to have features and the exact same audio quality... If I'm spending that kind of money, it has to be for an upgrade in quality primarily...

I've seen some particularly disturbing horror stories online about the network cards and firmware issues in the AVR3311 ... so I'm not so sure about that option now ... I'm leaning towards that 2067.

Richersounds.ie: Dave wrote: »

They don't come with any HDMI cables and we always suggest going for decent cables, especially for the better quality sources. The Cambridge and QED ranges are a good bet.

This is an old pearl which is one of my pet peeves ... over the 1-5M length (I need max 3M) I very much doubt there is any perceptible differences between HDMI cables costing £20 and £200 ... digital signals don't degrade in the same way as analogue. Indeed degraded digital signals can often be fully reconstituted in the receiving end ... If the transmitted signal is that weak that is can't be fully recovered in the receiver after only 5M ... then its the transmitter that needs replacing not the cable ...

Having said that I'm open minded (and very interested) to read any technical papers you can point me to on the subject (which are not written by expensive cable manufacturers trying to blind everyone with big words) ... but be warned - I'm a former Avionics Systems Design Engineer and also Transatlantic fibre optic systems design engineer with some expertise in the effects EMI on mission critical systems, both digital and analogue ... In the latter job I was designing systems that had to carry optical signals around 75KM between repeaters on TAT-9... in the former I was dealing with the effects of passenger carried electronics devices on Passenger Aircraft Systems ...

leinsterman

OK ... so just spoke to Dave at Richer Sounds Belfast and bought the Yamaha 2067 ... here's hoping it gives me a nice warm fuzzy feeling when I get it ... will feedback here later if anyone is interested ...