Diet drinks

lachin

Hi guys,

Just wondering about your opinions on diet drinks. I like the odd can of pepsi max but during these rare hot days I could easily have two cans a day. Also if I'm really craving something sweet I find a can of it will satisfy me.

However, I think I read something before about artificial sweeteners stimulating insulin production which is counterproductive to weight loss???

Anyone know about this / if that is correct?

El_Dangeroso

No they don't stimulate insulin production in any significant way.

However we do have observational studies showing regular consumption of diet drinks leads to increased weight gain compared to those who don't.

This could be for two reasons:

1. Diet drink consumers are more likely to be yo-yo dieters, which does associate with increased weight gain over time.

2. Something in diet drinks disrupts appetite signalling, causing you to be hungrier in the long run. (we only have rat studies at the moment showing this effect)

I'd avoid regular consumption just on precaution. I know too many diet coke addicts to believe it's totally benign.

Mellor

I think that studies mentioned above are misleading.
Just because diet drinkers are more likely to sufer weight problems doesn't mean that they are related in any way.

It's far more likely that people who drink diet drinks instead of water have general poor diets any way.

Also, the reason a lot of people drink them is because they are fat to begiin with.

Jimmy Garlic

Diet drinks are pure poison. They are full of aspartame, nasty stuff.

Mellor

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Diet drinks are pure poison. They are full of aspartame, nasty stuff.

What exactly makes it "nasty stuff"?

As all I ever seen is peopel speculating that its terrible without having anything to back it up.

Jimmy Garlic

Mellor wrote: »

What exactly makes it "nasty stuff"?

As all I ever seen is peopel speculating that its terrible without having anything to back it up.

Look into it...It is not good for you, it is an excitotoxin, just like MSG. But if you want to keep ingesting it, go ahead, not my problem.

Mellor

Excitotoxicity only happens a large doses. Even water is a toxin at large enough doses.
It's been tested to hell and back and its been approved for use?

There was what can only be described as smear campaign against it a few years ago, part of which was an email linking it to various problems, just as Gulf war syndrome. none of these claims had any evidence attached and most were debunked later.
Yet they still get quote of lots of place around the net.

WildBoots

Aspartame is, by far, the most dangerous substance on the market that is added to foods.

Aspartame is the technical name for the brand names NutraSweet, Equal, Spoonful, and Equal-Measure. It was discovered by accident in 1965 when James Schlatter, a chemist of G.D. Searle Company, was testing an anti-ulcer drug.

Aspartame was approved for dry goods in 1981 and for carbonated beverages in 1983. It was originally approved for dry goods on July 26, 1974, but objections filed by neuroscience researcher Dr John W. Olney and Consumer attorney James Turner in August 1974 as well as investigations of G.D. Searle's research practices caused the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to put approval of aspartame on hold (December 5, 1974). In 1985, Monsanto purchased G.D. Searle and made Searle Pharmaceuticals and The NutraSweet Company separate subsidiaries.


Aspartame accounts for over 75 percent of the adverse reactions to food additives reported to the FDA. Many of these reactions are very serious including seizures and death. A few of the 90 different documented symptoms listed in the report as being caused by aspartame include: Headaches/migraines, dizziness, seizures, nausea, numbness, muscle spasms, weight gain, rashes, depression, fatigue, irritability, tachycardia, insomnia, vision problems, hearing loss, heart palpitations, breathing difficulties, anxiety attacks, slurred speech, loss of taste, tinnitus, vertigo, memory loss, and joint pain.


According to researchers and physicians studying the adverse effects of aspartame, the following chronic illnesses can be triggered or worsened by ingesting of aspartame: Brain tumors, multiple sclerosis, epilepsy, chronic fatigue syndrome, parkinson's disease, alzheimer's, mental retardation, lymphoma, birth defects, fibromyalgia, and diabetes.


Aspartame is made up of three chemicals: aspartic acid, phenylalanine, and methanol. The book "Prescription for Nutritional Healing," by James and Phyllis Balch, lists aspartame under the category of "chemical poison." As you shall see, that is exactly what it is.

What Is Aspartame Made Of?

Aspartic Acid (40 percent of Aspartame)

Dr. Russell L. Blaylock, a professor of neurosurgery at the Medical University of Mississippi, recently published a book thoroughly detailing the damage that is caused by the ingestion of excessive aspartic acid from aspartame. Blaylock makes use of almost 500 scientific references to show how excess free excitatory amino acids such as aspartic acid and glutamic acid (about 99 percent of monosodium glutamate (MSG) is glutamic acid) in our food supply are causing serious chronic neurological disorders and a myriad of other acute symptoms.

How Aspartate (and Glutamate) Cause Damage

Aspartate and glutamate act as neurotransmitters in the brain by facilitating the transmission of information from neuron to neuron. Too much aspartate or glutamate in the brain kills certain neurons by allowing the influx of too much calcium into the cells. This influx triggers excessive amounts of free radicals, which kill the cells. The neural cell damage that can be caused by excessive aspartate and glutamate is why they are referred to as "excitotoxins." They "excite" or stimulate the neural cells to death.

Aspartic acid is an amino acid. Taken in its free form (unbound to proteins) it significantly raises the blood plasma level of aspartate and glutamate. The excess aspartate and glutamate in the blood plasma shortly after ingesting aspartame or products with free glutamic acid (glutamate precursor) leads to a high level of those neurotransmitters in certain areas of the brain.


The blood brain barrier (BBB), which normally protects the brain from excess glutamate and aspartate as well as toxins, 1) is not fully developed during childhood, 2) does not fully protect all areas of the brain, 3) is damaged by numerous chronic and acute conditions, and 4) allows seepage of excess glutamate and aspartate into the brain even when intact.

The excess glutamate and aspartate slowly begin to destroy neurons. The large majority (75 percent or more) of neural cells in a particular area of the brain are killed before any clinical symptoms of a chronic illness are noticed. A few of the many chronic illnesses that have been shown to be contributed to by long-term exposure to excitatory amino acid damage include:

• Multiple sclerosis (MS)
• ALS
• Memory loss
• Hormonal problems
• Hearing loss
• Epilepsy
• Alzheimer's disease

• Parkinson's disease
• Hypoglycemia
• AIDS
• Dementia
• Brain lesions
• Neuroendocrine disorders

The risk to infants, children, pregnant women, the elderly and persons with certain chronic health problems from excitotoxins are great. Even the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB), which usually understates problems and mimics the FDA party-line, recently stated in a review that:
"It is prudent to avoid the use of dietary supplements of L-glutamic acid by pregnant women, infants, and children. The existence of evidence of potential endocrine responses, i.e., elevated cortisol and prolactin, and differential responses between males and females, would also suggest a neuroendocrine link and that supplemental L-glutamic acid should be avoided by women of childbearing age and individuals with affective disorders."


Aspartic acid from aspartame has the same deleterious effects on the body as glutamic acid.
The exact mechanism of acute reactions to excess free glutamate and aspartate is currently being debated. As reported to the FDA, those reactions include:

• Headaches/migraines
• Nausea
• Abdominal pains
• Fatigue (blocks sufficient glucose entry into brain)
• Sleep problems
• Vision problems
• Anxiety attacks
• Depression
• Asthma/chest tigShtness.

One common complaint of persons suffering from the effect of aspartame is memory loss. Ironically, in 1987, G.D. Searle, the manufacturer of aspartame, undertook a search for a drug to combat memory loss caused by excitatory amino acid damage. Blaylock is one of many scientists and physicians who are concerned about excitatory amino acid damage caused by ingestion of aspartame and MSG.


A few of the many experts who have spoken out against the damage being caused by aspartate and glutamate include Adrienne Samuels, Ph.D., an experimental psychologist specializing in research design. Another is Olney, a professor in the department of psychiatry, School of Medicine, Washington University, a neuroscientist and researcher, and one of the world's foremost authorities on excitotoxins. (He informed Searle in 1971 that aspartic acid caused holes in the brains of mice.)

Phenylalanine (50 percent of aspartame)


Phenylalanine is an amino acid normally found in the brain. Persons with the genetic disorder phenylketonuria (PKU) cannot metabolize phenylalanine. This leads to dangerously high levels of phenylalanine in the brain (sometimes lethal). It has been shown that ingesting aspartame, especially along with carbohydrates, can lead to excess levels of phenylalanine in the brain even in persons who do not have PKU.


This is not just a theory, as many people who have eaten large amounts of aspartame over a long period of time and do not have PKU have been shown to have excessive levels of phenylalanine in the blood. Excessive levels of phenylalanine in the brain can cause the levels of seratonin in the brain to decrease, leading to emotional disorders such as depression. It was shown in human testing that phenylalanine levels of the blood were increased significantly in human subjects who chronically used aspartame.
Even a single use of aspartame raised the blood phenylalanine levels. In his testimony before the U.S. Congress, Dr. Louis J. Elsas showed that high blood phenylalanine can be concentrated in parts of the brain and is especially dangerous for infants and fetuses. He also showed that phenylalanine is metabolised much more effeciently by rodents than by humans.


One account of a case of extremely high phenylalanine levels caused by aspartame was recently published the "Wednesday Journal" in an article titled "An Aspartame Nightmare." John Cook began drinking six to eight diet drinks every day. His symptoms started out as memory loss and frequent headaches. He began to crave more aspartame-sweetened drinks. His condition deteriorated so much that he experienced wide mood swings and violent rages. Even though he did not suffer from PKU, a blood test revealed a phenylalanine level of 80 mg/dl. He also showed abnormal brain function and brain damage. After he kicked his aspartame habit, his symptoms improved dramatically.


As Blaylock points out in his book, early studies measuring phenylalanine buildup in the brain were flawed. Investigators who measured specific brain regions and not the average throughout the brain notice significant rises in phenylalanine levels. Specifically the hypothalamus, medulla oblongata, and corpus striatum areas of the brain had the largest increases in phenylalanine. Blaylock goes on to point out that excessive buildup of phenylalanine in the brain can cause schizophrenia or make one more susceptible to seizures.
Therefore, long-term, excessive use of aspartame may provid a boost to sales of seratonin reuptake inhibitors such as Prozac and drugs to control schizophrenia and seizures.

Methanol (aka wood alcohol/poison) (10 percent of aspartame)

Methanol/wood alcohol is a deadly poison. Some people may remember methanol as the poison that has caused some "skid row" alcoholics to end up blind or dead. Methanol is gradually released in the small intestine when the methyl group of aspartame encounter the enzyme chymotrypsin.
The absorption of methanol into the body is sped up considerably when free methanol is ingested. Free methanol is created from aspartame when it is heated to above 86 Fahrenheit (30 Centigrade). This would occur when aspartame-containing product is improperly stored or when it is heated (e.g., as part of a "food" product such as Jello).


Methanol breaks down into formic acid and formaldehyde in the body. Formaldehyde is a deadly neurotoxin. An EPA assessment of methanol states that methanol "is considered a cumulative poison due to the low rate of excretion once it is absorbed. In the body, methanol is oxidized to formaldehyde and formic acid; both of these metabolites are toxic." They recommend a limit of consumption of 7.8 mg/day. A one-liter (approx. 1 quart) aspartame-sweetened beverage contains about 56 mg of methanol. Heavy users of aspartame-containing products consume as much as 250 mg of methanol daily or 32 times the EPA limit.


Symptoms from methanol poisoning include headaches, ear buzzing, dizziness, nausea, gastrointestinal disturbances, weakness, vertigo, chills, memory lapses, numbness and shooting pains in the extremities, behavioral disturbances, and neuritis. The most well known problems from methanol poisoning are vision problems including misty vision, progressive contraction of visual fields, blurring of vision, obscuration of vision, retinal damage, and blindness. Formaldehyde is a known carcinogen, causes retinal damage, interferes with DNA replication and causes birth defects.


Due to the lack of a couple of key enzymes, humans are many times more sensitive to the toxic effects of methanol than animals. Therefore, tests of aspartame or methanol on animals do not accurately reflect the danger for humans. As pointed out by Dr. Woodrow C. Monte, director of the food science and nutrition laboratory at Arizona State University, "There are no human or mammalian studies to evaluate the possible mutagenic, teratogenic or carcinogenic effects of chronic administration of methyl alcohol."


He was so concerned about the unresolved safety issues that he filed suit with the FDA requesting a hearing to address these issues. He asked the FDA to "slow down on this soft drink issue long enough to answer some of the important questions. It's not fair that you are leaving the full burden of proof on the few of us who are concerned and have such limited resources. You must remember that you are the American public's last defense. Once you allow usage (of aspartame) there is literally nothing I or my colleagues can do to reverse the course. Aspartame will then join saccharin, the sulfiting agents, and God knows how many other questionable compounds enjoined to insult the human constitution with governmental approval." Shortly thereafter, the Commissioner of the FDA, Arthur Hull Hayes, Jr., approved the use of aspartame in carbonated beverages, he then left for a position with G.D. Searle's public relations firm.


It has been pointed out that some fruit juices and alcoholic beverages contain small amounts of methanol. It is important to remember, however, that methanol never appears alone. In every case, ethanol is present, usually in much higher amounts. Ethanol is an antidote for methanol toxicity in humans. The troops of Desert Storm were "treated" to large amounts of aspartame-sweetened beverages, which had been heated to over 86 degrees F in the Saudi Arabian sun. Many of them returned home with numerous disorders similar to what has been seen in persons who have been chemically poisoned by formaldehyde. The free methanol in the beverages may have been a contributing factor in these illnesses. Other breakdown products of aspartame such as DKP (discussed below) may also have been a factor.
In a 1993 act that can only be described as "unconscionable," the FDA approved aspartame as an ingredient in numerous food items that would always be heated to above 86 degree F (30 degree C).

Diketopiperazine (DKP)

DKP is a byproduct of aspartame metabolism. DKP has been implicated in the occurrence of brain tumors. Olney noticed that DKP, when nitrosated in the gut, produced a compound that was similar to N-nitrosourea, a powerful brain tumor causing chemical. Some authors have said that DKP is produced after aspartame ingestion. I am not sure if that is correct. It is definitely true that DKP is formed in liquid aspartame-containing products during prolonged storage.


G.D. Searle conducted animal experiments on the safety of DKP. The FDA found numerous experimental errors occurred, including "clerical errors, mixed-up animals, animals not getting drugs they were supposed to get, pathological specimens lost because of improper handling," and many other errors. These sloppy laboratory procedures may explain why both the test and control animals had sixteen times more brain tumors than would be expected in experiments of this length.


In an ironic twist, shortly after these experimental errors were discovered, the FDA used guidelines recommended by G.D. Searle to develop the industry-wide FDA standards for good laboratory practices.
DKP has also been implicated as a cause of uterine polyps and changes in blood cholesterol by FDA Toxicologist Dr. Jacqueline Verrett in her testimony before the U.S. Senate.

Bottle_of_Smoke

In controlled trials the weight gain link to diet drinks doesn't show itself. So I'd be inclined to think its linked with something else diet-drink consumers do

emollett

How easily does it break down into those constituent parts though? Just because methanol is used to make it, and is a breakdown product, does not necessarily mean that it will be present normally, if breadown doesn't happen in the conditions it is usually found out. For example, DKP is formed above 180C, so highly unlikely to be problematic.
Also, giving the constituents in percentages is somewhat misleading, making it appear to be a mix of the free constituents, rather than a compound.

El_Dangeroso

Mellor wrote: »

I think that studies mentioned above are misleading.
Just because diet drinkers are more likely to sufer weight problems doesn't mean that they are related in any way.

It's far more likely that people who drink diet drinks instead of water have general poor diets any way.

Also, the reason a lot of people drink them is because they are fat to begiin with.

All you've said is true but there is a plausible mechanism for how non-caloric sweeteners can interfere with correct appetite signalling and we also have rats studies that demonstrate this (with higher doses to create the effect in a shorter period of time as rats only live for 1-2 years)

This study with a modest dose of saccharin showed that calves increased their overall caloric intake when fed the sweetener in addition to their diet.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

In controlled trials the weight gain link to diet drinks doesn't show itself. So I'd be inclined to think its linked with something else diet-drink consumers do

Prospective controlled trials aren't going to show much because they are too short and small to be adequately powered to show an effect.

I'm not saying that we have the smoking gun when it comes to avoiding non-caloric sweeteners, but there's enough indirect evidence to make me suspicious.

I do have an occasional diet drink sometimes (I like the vit hit mandarin and green tea - it's not very sweet) but if you've got a 3 can a day habit then I'd really think you'd do well to examine why that is.

Phosphoric acid in diet colas are known to interfere with mineral metabolism too.

lachin

Mellor wrote: »

I think that studies mentioned above are misleading.
Just because diet drinkers are more likely to sufer weight problems doesn't mean that they are related in any way.

It's far more likely that people who drink diet drinks instead of water have general poor diets any way.

Also, the reason a lot of people drink them is because they are fat to begiin with.

Maybe so, I used to have very poor eating habits but now eat clean 90% of the time. Either way I was never overweight or had more than 2-3 cans a day.

At my heaviest,at 5'8" I was 135lbs, I am now 124. I just go through phases of having it, saw a damn 6 pack in dunnes the other and had to get it, even though haven't had it since last summer. Hence the post, as I am eating clean I hate putting crap into my body but seriously craved it last Thursday and Friday.

Anyway, I think I'll be steering clear from now on, eating clean and diet drinks just don't go hand in hand do they?

Mellor

lachin wrote: »

Maybe so, I used to have very poor eating habits but now eat clean 90% of the time. Either way I was never overweight or had more than 2-3 cans a day.

At my heaviest,at 5'8" I was 135lbs, I am now 124. I just go through phases of having it, saw a damn 6 pack in dunnes the other and had to get it, even though haven't had it since last summer. Hence the post, as I am eating clean I hate putting crap into my body but seriously craved it last Thursday and Friday.

Anyway, I think I'll be steering clear from now on, eating clean and diet drinks just don't go hand in hand do they?

You were heaviert because you have poor eating habits.
You last sentance makes no sense. If my diet was clean, whoel foods, at maintenance, then I wouldn't consider a diet drink to have any effect. It doesn't make your diet worse.

If however, you are likey to suffer cravings and pick up a chocolate bar at the same time as the drink then its a bad idea. This is not the fault of the diet, but your own will power.

Also, i'm not even goign to comment of the bullsh1t post above, causes deathe indeed.

lachin

You have misunderstood me or perhaps I wasn't clear. No matter what weight I have ever been my consumption of diet drinks has remained much the same. I never said or think that diet drinks make me fat or thin! Food does!

By my last sentence I meant that there's so much artificial crap in the drinks, that it really doesn't make sense to ME to drink them when nearly everything else I consume is fresh and unprocessed. Still desire overcame sense last week!

Bottle_of_Smoke

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Prospective controlled trials aren't going to show much because they are too short and small to be adequately powered to show an effect.

I'm not saying that we have the smoking gun when it comes to avoiding non-caloric sweeteners, but there's enough indirect evidence to make me suspicious.

I do have an occasional diet drink sometimes (I like the vit hit mandarin and green tea - it's not very sweet) but if you've got a 3 can a day habit then I'd really think you'd do well to examine why that is.

Phosphoric acid in diet colas are known to interfere with mineral metabolism too.

I was talking from a purely weight gain point of view and the idea that they may cause weight gain due to insulin respionse. Overall though I'd be against them. As you mentioned they seem to be addictive for some people. Also I feel like crap after drinking them.

lachin

Guys I was just mooching about online and saw on a few natural healing and homeopathy sites that craving soda is linked to your body needing calcium.
Shocked me as I have osteopenia so would make sense in my case. Would ye think that theres much weight to this theory?

El_Dangeroso

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I was talking from a purely weight gain point of view and the idea that they may cause weight gain due to insulin respionse. Overall though I'd be against them. As you mentioned they seem to be addictive for some people. Also I feel like crap after drinking them.

Me too, aspartame gives me brain fog.

If you keep you calories completely the same then it won't cause weight gain but it's hard to keep your calories the same when you're hungrier. Keeping hunger at bay is the key to long term weight loss.

colman1212

Interesting article on aspartame here from elitefts if anyone is interested:

http://articles.elitefts.com/articles/nutrition/does-aspartame-pass-the-safety-test/

Mellor

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I was talking from a purely weight gain point of view and the idea that they may cause weight gain due to insulin respionse. Overall though I'd be against them. As you mentioned they seem to be addictive for some people. Also I feel like crap after drinking them.

That's a perfectly acceptable for you not to drink them.
But it's not a reason for any one else (unless thjey feel like crap too)

I'll often have a can of diet or zero if i've a craving. For me they satsify that craving. Craving is prob not the right word, if i want something nother than water to drink I suppose.

I rather something sugar free over something that has a lot of extra calories in it.

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Me too, aspartame gives me brain fog.

If you keep you calories completely the same then it won't cause weight gain but it's hard to keep your calories the same when you're hungrier. Keeping hunger at bay is the key to long term weight loss.

Studies have show that aspartame doesn't increase hunger, similar studoes are linked above.

if you, or anyone else, finds you over eat if you drink these things, then that's a reason to avoid it. But thats to do with you, and not the sweetner. When some people break a deit they tend to try less hard for the rest of the day. If you consider diet coke to be as bad as regular coke (or similar at least) then there is a case that you treat it as a diet break.

El_Dangeroso

Mellor wrote: »

That's a perfectly acceptable for you not to drink them.
But it's not a reason for any one else (unless thjey feel like crap too)

I'll often have a can of diet or zero if i've a craving. For me they satsify that craving. Craving is prob not the right word, if i want something nother than water to drink I suppose.

I rather something sugar free over something that has a lot of extra calories in it.

Studies have show that aspartame doesn't increase hunger, similar studoes are linked above.

if you, or anyone else, finds you over eat if you drink these things, then that's a reason to avoid it. But thats to do with you, and not the sweetner. When some people break a deit they tend to try less hard for the rest of the day. If you consider diet coke to be as bad as regular coke (or similar at least) then there is a case that you treat it as a diet break.

Most of the long term research (97% in fact) on aspartame is bought and paid for by the aspartame maker's company. Make of that what you will.

In any case, there are other parts of diet coke that are bad for you, like phosphoric acid. It's linked with stroke as well (that's independent of weight, age, exercise or smoking btw).

If you want to take the risk (and I do mean risk because we still don't have real long term studies - >30yrs) then fine, but don't declare it fine just because you have experienced no adverse effects in the short term.

As I said, once in a while is probably too little to have an effect, regular consumption and you take your chances.

Mellor

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Most of the long term research (97% in fact) on aspartame is bought and paid for by the aspartame maker's company. Make of that what you will.

The onus is on aspartame, and other subtances, to prove they are safe. Therefore they MUST fund the studies in order to GEt FDA approval. If they are repeatedly bad mouthed, ten they have to repeated fund studies in order to keep sales.

Your a smart guy, you appear to understand nutrition and the industry, so please don't insult me or yourself by posting sugestive bull**** like that.

In any case, there are other parts of diet coke that are bad for you, like phosphoric acid. It's linked with stroke as well (that's independent of weight, age, exercise or smoking btw).

The link to stroke is unproven.

I'd have expected you to go with bone density, but they think caffine may be a bigger problem there.

Either way the issue with phosphoric acid is unrealted to "Diet" drinks, so not relevant to my point in any way. Bringing up other issues only weakens your point.

If you want to take the risk (and I do mean risk because we still don't have real long term studies - >30yrs) then fine, but don't declare it fine just because you have experienced no adverse effects in the short term.

More scare mongering :rolleyes:
There are far worse things in the average diet than aspartame, as an alternative to sugar, I'd prefer it from a purely calorific point of view.

Would you rather your kids chose regular coke or diet coke.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Mellor wrote: »

More scare mongering :rolleyes:
There are far worse things in the average diet than aspartame, as an alternative to sugar, I'd prefer it from a purely calorific point of view.

In fairness that was a statement of fact, in that the studies aren't available as aspartame hasn't been used long enough. Was only completely approved in the 90s so widespread use wouldn't be around that long.

Ever hear of a plant called Stevia? It has extremely sweet leaves, can be up to 300times as sweet as sugar and in common use in Japan since 1970 so there might be more credible studies on it. I wanna try it to see if it has any noticable negative effects. Its also stable in heat so allround more useful than aspartame.

Would you rather your kids chose regular coke or diet coke.

That's a good question, I'd be somewhat on the fence, if they were slim I think I might be inclined to give them normal coke. I'm sort of biased though because I absolutely love regular coke

El_Dangeroso

Mellor wrote: »

The onus is on aspartame, and other subtances, to prove they are safe. Therefore they MUST fund the studies in order to GEt FDA approval. If they are repeatedly bad mouthed, ten they have to repeated fund studies in order to keep sales.

Your a smart guy, you appear to understand nutrition and the industry, so please don't insult me or yourself by posting sugestive bull**** like that.

The link to stroke is unproven.

I'd have expected you to go with bone density, but they think caffine may be a bigger problem there.

Either way the issue with phosphoric acid is unrealted to "Diet" drinks, so not relevant to my point in any way. Bringing up other issues only weakens your point.


More scare mongering :rolleyes:
There are far worse things in the average diet than aspartame, as an alternative to sugar, I'd prefer it from a purely calorific point of view.

Would you rather your kids chose regular coke or diet coke.

I'm not scaremongering, I've already said several times that once in a while is fine. I'm countering the 'It's completely fine! Have as much as you want! There are no adverse consequences' point that you seem to be making.

The evidence against the consumption of non-caloric sweeteners (I'm not focusing just on aspartame) is just as weak as the evidence for it's safety, as in it's mixed and we have no long term studies demostrating their safety.

In that instance I apply the precautionary principal, because I don't want to advise people that something is safe when frankly the data are not there.

Re coke vs diet coke, ideally neither. Although at least we have a lot of long term history of consuming refined sugar, so you know what you're in for.

Do you not think it's possible that for a lot of overweight people (not all) would benefit from ridding themselves of the need for daily sweet drinks?

Dial back the tone a bit if you can, it's coming across a bit shouty.

Gummy Panda

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Ever hear of a plant called Stevia? It has extremely sweet leaves, can be up to 300times as sweet as sugar and in common use in Japan since 1970 so there might be more credible studies on it. I wanna try it to see if it has any noticable negative effects. Its also stable in heat so allround more useful than aspartame.

Stevia is available in supermarkets in US now but iirc EU hasn't approved it yet. Afaik it's banned everywhere in EU bar France.

Mountjoy Mugger

WildBoots wrote: »

MEGA SNIP.

Could you not have referred/linked to the source, rather than copy & paste?

Mellor

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Ever hear of a plant called Stevia? It has extremely sweet leaves, can be up to 300times as sweet as sugar and in common use in Japan since 1970 so there might be more credible studies on it.

Yeah, I used it. Not a huge fan of sugar in my tea, but it wasn't noticable different.
Actualy, the product i used was a sugar blend, half sucrose, half stevia. Reduced calorie sugar. I think I was told that pure stevia can have an after taste, hense the blend but i'm not sure.

That's a good question, I'd be somewhat on the fence, if they were slim I think I might be inclined to give them normal coke. I'm sort of biased though because I absolutely love regular coke

:eek::eek:

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I'm not scaremongering, I've already said several times that once in a while is fine. I'm countering the 'It's completely fine! Have as much as you want! There are no adverse consequences' point that you seem to be making.

Come on, i never said drink it away as much as you want, please don't put words in my mouth.

I said, to put it bluntly, the fat people who drink diet coke aren't fat because of diet coke, despite what some people suggest

Re coke vs diet coke, ideally neither. Although at least we have a lot of long term history of consuming refined sugar, so you know what you're in for.

you didn't really give an answer. It that b
Obvious neither is optimal. But that wasn't an option, you can't control everything they drink. If you had to pick one?

Do you not think it's possible that for a lot of overweight people (not all) would benefit from ridding themselves of the need for daily sweet drinks?

Of course. But my point is overweight people have lots wrong with their diet, the diet coke isn't the deciding factor. People are overly critical of it,ots never the first thing to be fixed.
I can think of at least one phenominal athlete who regualr drinks diet coke. Tip top shape as the rest of his life is perfect.

Dial back the tone a bit if you can, it's coming across a bit shouty.

Not my intention. Sorry.
I just didn't like the angle you put on some of your points

El_Dangeroso

I think our points might be closer than you think. We're both fine with intermittent consumption but think the 3 can a day people should look at why that is.

Can I not add in C: Orange Juice diluted with water as a third option? Sorry it's like being asked to choose between silk cut blue and silk cut ultra, one might be better than the other but I'd rather not endorse either.

Noone is saying the entire cause of the obesity epidemic is diet coke, but I don't think it helps people achieve long term weight loss if they are relying on it daily.

I'm waiting on more research personally.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Mellor wrote: »

Yeah, I used it. Not a huge fan of sugar in my tea, but it wasn't noticable different.
Actualy, the product i used was a sugar blend, half sucrose, half stevia. Reduced calorie sugar. I think I was told that pure stevia can have an after taste, hense the blend but i'm not sure.


:eek::eek:

Heh, shock that I'd choose coke or that I like it?

tommyp

lachin wrote: »

Hi guys,

Just wondering about your opinions on diet drinks. I like the odd can of pepsi max but during these rare hot days I could easily have two cans a day. Also if I'm really craving something sweet I find a can of it will satisfy me.

However, I think I read something before about artificial sweeteners stimulating insulin production which is counterproductive to weight loss???

Anyone know about this / if that is correct?

Mod note - banned

lachin

And some people feel better about themselves being ignorant and rude!

metamorphosis

tommyp banned for a week - this isn't after hours.