Advice for a prospective teacher

Kimmy-XxX

Hi all,
In September I'll be starting my my fourth year in Trinity, I'm studying English Literature and Classical Civilisation with a view to eventually teaching English and Clasical Studies. My grades range from high 2.1s to low 1.1s (generally 67%-75%). I'm majoring in English for my senior sophister year and have been accepted to write a supervised dissertation that will concern contemporary Irish literature.
I've known for a long time that I want to teach and Trinity would be my first choice for the PGDE. So, I've undertaken volunteer work with SVDP Homework Club and also with Fighting Words, a creative writing organisation that works with both primary and secondary schools on a workshop basis, some continuous and some ad hoc.
I'm aware of the current economic climate and the scarcity of teaching jobs and I'm also conscious of the difficulty of getting into a PGDE, particularly in Trinity, where my research suggests that gaining a place is extremely difficult.
For these reasons I've been considering doing a Masters in English after my unrgraduate degree and then doing the PGDE, hopefully upping my chances of getting into it and eventually getting a decent teaching job.
My financial situation means that doing a masters and a PGDE would put me in significant debt. Thus, my question is this - do ye think that I should do the masters or just go ahead and apply for the PGDE. My dilemma is that the masters is so expensive and would involve another year in full time education. Is the market good enough that I could expect a job in when I'm finished and are my grades and experience enough to get me into the PGDE, or, would a masters be necessary?
Apologies for such a long post, I considered it crucial that anyone giving feedback would have a thorough overview of my personal situation. Any sort of advice would be greatly appreciated. I suppose I'm looking for replies from people who have been through the process or are currently working/job seeking in the industry.
Thanks in advance for any help!

Rosita

Trinity does its PGDE selection through interview - goodness knows how they measure the different variables such as grades, experience etc.

I've heard of people say that you need experience yet have seen people with no teaching experience get into the PGDE in Trinity. Being a Trinity graduate might be no harm in that respect but that is speculative. But because of the process for Trinity a Master's might be of debatable value. Bear in mind that a Master's probably will have no direct relevance to teaching at second-level.

For the NUI colleges - where recruitment is solely on grades (on the face of it this seems strange but the argument for it is that it is entirely transparent) - a Master's would be very worthwhile. That said if you could guarantee getting close to a First in your finals you'd most likely get into the NUI PGDE anyway if previous years are a reliable guide.

A problem that will inevitably be highlighted to you is your subjects. There is a serious surfeit of English teachers about and Classical Studies is a minority subject taught in just a handful of school nationwide (less than 1,000 students sit the subject for the Leaving Cert). This will not really have implications for you in terms of the PGDE (other than the difficulty of getting a school with Classical Studies for Teaching Practice) but will have obvious implications for your prospective employability.

jonseyblub

Rosita wrote: »

For the NUI colleges - where recruitment is solely on grades (on the face of it this seems strange but the argument for it is that it is entirely transparent) - a Master's would be very worthwhile. That said if you could guarantee getting close to a First in your finals you'd most likely get into the NUI PGDE anyway if previous years are a reliable guide.

While the NUI stance is transparent it means that anyone with a PHD in say anthropology or psychology will more than likely get onto the PGDE before someone who has a degree in say general science. While It's great to have the PHD they are not subjects that are taught in schools. I did the dip in 2000 in Trinity and only for the fact that there was an interview I wouldn't be teaching now as I only had a general degree at the time.

Getting back to the original point, I'd advise you to apply for the PGDE as soon as possible if the fact of having the extra financial burden is a serious problem because from what I can see from the messages on here from NQT's it'll more than likely be a long time before you will even think about paying back those loans as the job opportunities are that bad.

Anyway good luck whatever way you go.

whiteandlight

I got sraight into the PGDE two years ago with just my Degree. Aim to get a first and you should get in. I did at least.

I also though would have to caution you, your subject mean that you will in all likelihood find it very difficult to get work. On that note doing an MA first is probably a bad idea if you are worried about the costs involved.

Goosewad

I just finished the Trinity PGDE this year. There are roughly the same numbers of places for all of the subjects I think (English, Irish, Maths, Languages, Science, RE, Business, History and Geography) so the fact that your subject is English is not really relevant to the people who are running the course, one poster said this might be a disadvantage to you but I don't see how it would be.

A girl on my course came directly from her degree into the course whose main subject was English and I think she got a high 2.1. On the other hand, you hear stories of people with firsts and masters not getting into the course. It's a bit of a mystery as to how it's ultimately decided... I'd say they have a hard job on their hands these days making their choices. Basically though, I wouldn't be killing yourself trying to get a first just for the PGDE or doing a masters just for the PGDE... obviously these things are worthy in their own right though I reckon the interview is the biggest factor.

If you think you want to do your masters, go for it! I decided to go away and work for one year after 4th and then applied that same year, and they let me do my interview via telephone. So maybe you could do something like that? Nothing to stop you applying this coming year either and your application would be based on your 3rd year results, there are definitely fewer people on the course straight from college but there they do exist. Good luck!

mr_october

Hi, I'm starting the PGDE in Trinity this September and will be taking the Business specialisation! I've only recently completed my undergraduate degree in Commerce International in UCD and was accepted based on my second year result which was a high 2.1-and Business is apparently the most competitive and one of the hardest programs to get on to! Your work experience thus far seems perfect and I would advise you to accept any offers of work in education before you apply! I have worked in summer schools and have done some TEFL course which they focused heavily on in the interview. Basically the interview is there to assess your passion for education and for you to demonstrate that you are the ideal candidate they are looking for! It's not all about the grades-there was a girl with 4 years part time teaching experience, a masters in supply chain management from Smurfit and a first in her undergraduate being interviewed at the same time as me and she didn't get it! Trinity take into account your personality too! With regards to the Masters, I'd apply for the PGDE first-it costs like 120 to apply to both Trinity and NUI colleges and the results are issued early April-if you don't get it, you still should have time to apply for the masters if you want! But again, as others have said, there is also the issue of employability to take into account! Best of luck either way and hope what I've said makes some sense!!

Rosita

Goosewad wrote: »

I just finished the Trinity PGDE this year. There are roughly the same numbers of places for all of the subjects I think (English, Irish, Maths, Languages, Science, RE, Business, History and Geography) so the fact that your subject is English is not really relevant to the people who are running the course, one poster said this might be a disadvantage to you but I don't see how it would be.

Just to clarify what I wrote about the OP's subject - I think it's fairly clear that I said the issues around the subject are to do with employability rather than getting onto the course itself. Here's what I wrote:

A problem that will inevitably be highlighted to you is your subjects. There is a serious surfeit of English teachers about and Classical Studies is a minority subject taught in just a handful of school nationwide (less than 1,000 students sit the subject for the Leaving Cert). This will not really have implications for you in terms of the PGDE (other than the difficulty of getting a school with Classical Studies for Teaching Practice) but will have obvious implications for your prospective employability.

Art Teacher

How about this for a suggestion. apply for the M.A and the PGDE. If you don't get teaching, go onto your MA.

Goosewad

Rosita wrote: »

Just to clarify what I wrote about the OP's subject - I think it's fairly clear that I said the issues around the subject are to do with employability rather than getting onto the course itself. [/I]

Clearly didn't read it properly, apologies. Wasn't meant as an attack on anyone anyway.

Kimmy-XxX

Sincere thanks to everyone who has replied to my query. I'm still unsure about what to do but I do intend to do my masters at some stage and perhaps it would be best to do it now when, considering the employment rate, I'm probably better off in college! I know that the road I have choosen is going to be a difficult one and I'm prepared for how disheartening it may be when I eventually attempt to get a job within an overcrowded market. It's very upsetting to think about how hard I've worked to get a good leaving cert and get into a good college where I've pushed myself to excel while sacrificing a lot and in the end, I may not even get the job I want. I've only ever wanted to teach. I know I would be an outstanding teacher and I'll do whatever it takes to get into a classroom. I know I'm not the only one in this situation and to anyone in the same position as me, I sincerely hope that we all get the reward that our hard work deserves some day. Choosing to study Classics when so few schools teach it (I think it's around eleven but am open to correction on that one) is something I've always been criticised for. Genuinely though, I have a sincere passion for the subject and a personal and extensive interest in it. I do continuosly hope that it will gain more attention and intend to work for the recognition by schools of how valuable a subject it is.
I have one further question - if I apply for the PGDE/a masters this year, will my results be based on my third year grades or, will they be based on my overall degree which will (hopefully!) be awarded to me next summer? Obviously, I cannot provide details of my final year results before the deadline for applications to postgraduate courses as I will not yet be finished the year!
Again, thank you all sincerely for your replies, they have been practical, compassionate and helpful.

gaeilgebeo

Kimmy-XxX wrote: »

Sincere thanks to everyone who has replied to my query. I'm still unsure about what to do but I do intend to do my masters at some stage and perhaps it would be best to do it now when, considering the employment rate, I'm probably better off in college! I know that the road I have choosen is going to be a difficult one and I'm prepared for how disheartening it may be when I eventually attempt to get a job within an overcrowded market. It's very upsetting to think about how hard I've worked to get a good leaving cert and get into a good college where I've pushed myself to excel while sacrificing a lot and in the end, I may not even get the job I want. I've only ever wanted to teach. I know I would be an outstanding teacher and I'll do whatever it takes to get into a classroom. I know I'm not the only one in this situation and to anyone in the same position as me, I sincerely hope that we all get the reward that our hard work deserves some day. Choosing to study Classics when so few schools teach it (I think it's around eleven but am open to correction on that one) is something I've always been criticised for. Genuinely though, I have a sincere passion for the subject and a personal and extensive interest in it. I do continuosly hope that it will gain more attention and intend to work for the recognition by schools of how valuable a subject it is.
I have one further question - if I apply for the PGDE/a masters this year, will my results be based on my third year grades or, will they be based on my overall degree which will (hopefully!) be awarded to me next summer? Obviously, I cannot provide details of my final year results before the deadline for applications to postgraduate courses as I will not yet be finished the year!
Again, thank you all sincerely for your replies, they have been practical, compassionate and helpful.

As far as I know it will be your last set of results taken into account as in your 3rd year results.
Best of luck with your future career, hope it all works out for you.

Kimmy-XxX

That's good news, my results from third year should be high enough to get me into the PGDE in one of the NUIs. Thanks for the good wishes, will keep boards updated.