Is it possible to buy a reliable 140+bhp modern diesel?

Bif

Folks,
I am thinking of changing my car and my question is what is the most reliable 140+bhp family size diesel on the market at the moment i.e. something that will do 150k miles with good servicing and without a high chance of having to replace turbos, injectors, DMFs, DPFs, ESP units etc. etc. etc.
I am not worried about the badge, just performance and reliability with diesel fuel economy and torque. Is this possible or will I have to buy a petrol engined car after 15 years of enjoying diesels which racked up high miles reliabily....Thanks for looking...

What mileage do you do?

Darsad

http://www.adverts.ie/car/legacy/legacy/subaru-legacy-for-sale/620787

Here ya Go !

EPM

No. A DMF is classed as a wear and tear item these days. I'd be shocked if anyone got 10 years out of one tbh.

Bif

RoverJames wrote: »

What mileage do you do?

Was 22-25k miles per year. Recently moving toward 15-18k miles...

Bif

Darsad wrote: »

http://www.adverts.ie/car/legacy/legacy/subaru-legacy-for-sale/620787

Here ya Go !

Had my heart set on one of these in estate form but engine performance was underwhelming and they have since been highlighted as having several reliability issues also....Really like the looks of the estate and they handle beautifully!

Take_Her_Handy

For reliability, ya cant get much better than an Avensis D4D! There's the 2.0 and the 2.2 6 speed t-spirit! Dont quote me on this but i think they're something like 150ish bhp! there is a 170bhp version too!

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Toyota/Avensis/TR-Estat/201038199649840/advert?channel=CARS

Darsad

Bif wrote: »

Had my heart set on one of these in estate form but engine performance was underwhelming and they have since been highlighted as having several reliability issues also....Really like the looks of the estate and they handle beautifully!

What kind of relibality issues ! a mate of mine has one and im tired of him telling me its the best car he has ever driven or owned plus he was the only one able to get to work during the bad winter we had .

cadaliac

Take_Her_Handy wrote: »

For reliability, ya cant get much better than an Avensis D4D! There's the 2.0 and the 2.2 6 speed t-spirit! Dont quote me on this but i think they're something like 150ish bhp! there is a 170bhp version too!

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Toyota/Avensis/TR-Estat/201038199649840/advert?channel=CARS

I thought the 2.2 diesel engines had their own share of issues.....
Not everything built by Toyota is unbreakable you know.
Also, the D4D is not the most economical diesel engine either, as compared with some of the usual German competitors.

vectra

Bif wrote: »

Folks,
I am thinking of changing my car and ......... something that will do 150k miles with good servicing and without a high chance of having to replace turbos, injectors, DMFs, DPFs, ESP units etc. etc. etc.

Does such a car exist?

Most cars seem to have their own issues these days

squod

In before some genius tells me the Honda engine is ''bulletproof''.

Plug

Take_Her_Handy wrote: »

For reliability, ya cant get much better than an Avensis D4D! There's the 2.0 and the 2.2 6 speed t-spirit! Dont quote me on this but i think they're something like 150ish bhp! there is a 170bhp version too!

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Toyota/Avensis/TR-Estat/201038199649840/advert?channel=CARS

Not true. These lads can give trouble.

-Chris-

Bif, any salesperson who tells you their modern diesel engined car is bulletproof, they're lying.

Diesel is a dirty fuel, a dirty technology. European emissions control regulations are strangling modern diesel engines, EGRs, DPFs and Common Rail technology are nowhere near as reliable the old "tractor" engines, but they're more driveable and refined.

Drive petrol and diesel, see which you prefer. The mileage you do doesn't require a diesel, and the savings in motor tax are tiny compared to depreciation and running costs.

Drive the car you prefer, diesels aren't more reliable, and probably aren't much cheaper to run, than petrols for your mileage at this stage.

JJJJNR

This would do you very nicely.

245

Bif wrote: »

Had my heart set on one of these in estate form but engine performance was underwhelming and they have since been highlighted as having several reliability issues also....Really like the looks of the estate and they handle beautifully!

What kind of performance are you expecting from a 50 mpg AWD full sized saloon? Quoted 0-62 mph time is under 9 seconds with a top speed of over 125 mph. I've had mine to the limit in Germany so I can vouch for performance and handling (autobahnen are not as straight as you'd expect). I've 70,000 km clocked up now so I have some insight into economy as well.

What reliability issues have you read about?

I'll second Chris - depreciation is the real cost for your mileage.

coolbeans

Cars generally, especially diesels have definitely taken a backward step in terms of reliability. The mid to late nineties represent the heyday for uber reliable cars. I've heard a lot of people say that all modern cars are reliable, and many are but the longevity of ten years ago seems to be largely absent.

Bif

245,
As per my post I genuinely like the Legacy especialy the handling, looks and the fact that it is genuinely different. However, and I acknowledge the car I drove had only 4k on the clock and that AWD will absorb more power, but it did not 'feel' like sub 9 sec accelaration. I said this to a friend of mine who drove one and he had the same opinion as I. Each to their own.
On the 'issues' have a look at this http://www.uklegacy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=107056&hl=diesel&st=0 ...a pretty well balanced thread from owners, I think. Thanks for the comments.

galwaytt

squod wrote: »

In before some genius tells me the Honda engine is ''bulletproof''.

Damn - in before I could post about the injector seal issue on those, which can result in under-bonnet fire. Not pretty.

OP - what you're looking for hasn't been invented yet.

I have a 150bhp Saab Tid and it's been very good. EGR got clogged, but otherwise great. But you don't get 150bhp, reliability AND economy out of a diesel. 2 out of 3, maybe.

keithclancy

I'm afraid to say anything in case I jinx it.

Too much Ikea around the place so no wood to touch

I find it strange though that people want a car with more 'toys' and expect it to be as reliable as the car back in the day with an engine, 4 wheels and a box .. and maybe a fan + fm radio.

Bif

galwaytt wrote: »

OP - what you're looking for hasn't been invented yet.

I have a 150bhp Saab Tid and it's been very good. EGR got clogged, but otherwise great. But you don't get 150bhp, reliability AND economy out of a diesel. 2 out of 3, maybe.

GalwayTT,
Thanks for that. I'll settle for the first 2; 140+bhp and reliability...suggestions welcome. Economy wasn't my central issue...if it is diesel and reliable the running costs will be ok...depreciation is quantifiable and if you have a reliable car that you can keep for a long time depreciation can be reduced (a little!). What isnt good, for me, is a car that has regular expensive breakdowns where you are left with large bills and time off the road etc.

245

Thanks for the link. If you search elsewhere on that site you'll see that it can take from between 6,000 and 12,000 miles for the engine and gearbox to free up - they can feel quite tight up to that. I find that first gear acceleration feels very ordinary whereas second, third and fourth feel very lively. If you get a chance, try to drive a higher mileage car and see if you can feel the difference.

As far as issues mentioned in that link, most of them relate to a pre-remap ECU - it was subsequently reprogrammed during scheduled services to adjust the torque curve to ease the load on the DMF (the DMF on AWD cars takes a much higher load before traction control kicks in) and also to prevent stalling when moving away from rest. It should be remembered that some of the posters were unfamiliar with diesels and therefore overly concerned with smoke clouds however the car does have an open loop DPF which is less efficient than the closed loop DPF as fitted to the Forester and Impreza diesels. One or two people do seem to have had bigger issues with their cars but they seem clear cut enough to be sorted by warranty claim if valid.

A lot of owners seem to be unfamiliar with the 'learning cycles' that seem to be unique to the boxer diesel. If they aren't allowed to complete fully then then engine won't run as well as it can. It also seems to be sensitive to fuel quality - I know that mine runs better and with less smoke on Esso/Maxol than other brands, regardless of what people will say about fuel being the same from all outlets.

Bottom line is that official ECU upgrades and mileage should have cured most flaws with the engine. I hope that I don't sound biased but I do believe that a good boxer diesel is worth experiencing. It is very different in terms of revability, power delivery and smoothness. Combined with the Legacy chassis and drivetrain its quite a package. Not perfect but for the money its great value.

Bif

Thanks 245.
I agree when I first saw them I thought the car would be the perfect package. I will take your advice and try and drive one with the updates and some more mileage. The estate versions are pretty scarce however... BTW how are getting on with mpg at this stage?

griffin100

I've a 2003 Volvo S60 D5 with 192k miles on it of which I've put about 120k on. It's around 160bhp, fast, very comfortable and i average 40mpg. I've never had a problem with any of the items mentioned in the OP. Outside of consumables (pads, discs, loads of bulbs, etc) the only other things I've had to replace outside of accident damage have been a cat converter (expensive), a printed circuit board / fuse box (cheap but took an age to work out that this was what needed replacement), and suspension bushes but these are a problem on volvos in general IME. I think the fact I don't really do any short journeys on traffic helps - all my driving is either a 100km commute or spinning around back roads at home.

keithclancy

griffin100 wrote: »

I've a 2003 Volvo S60 D5 with 192k miles on it of which I've put about 120k on. It's around 160bhp, fast, very comfortable and i average 40mpg. I've never had a problem with any of the items mentioned in the OP. Outside of consumables (pads, discs, loads of bulbs, etc) the only other things I've had to replace outside of accident damage have been a cat converter (expensive), a printed circuit board / fuse box (cheap but took an age to work out that this was what needed replacement), and suspension bushes but these are a problem on volvos in general IME. I think the fact I don't really do any short journeys on traffic helps - all my driving is either a 100km commute or spinning around back roads at home.

Suspension bushes ... is a big VAG thing as well.

But ffs !! you talked about it ... find some wood to touch !! :pac::pac::pac:

Ardennes1944

vectra sri?

245

Bif wrote: »

Thanks 245.
I agree when I first saw them I thought the car would be the perfect package. I will take your advice and try and drive one with the updates and some more mileage. The estate versions are pretty scarce however... BTW how are getting on with mpg at this stage?

My trip computer is reading 5.6 l/100km average (50 mpg) but brim to brim calcs work out at between 45 mpg and 47 mpg. My commute is 50/50 sitting in city centre traffic at rush hour/dual carriageway & motorway. I drive at the legal limit on motorways so I'm not especially economy minded. I reckon that I could hit the official average with a bit of discipline and a motorway average of 100 kmh but dinner is a higher priority . I think that the estate will be slightly heavier on fuel due to weight so you might want to subtract a couple of miles per gallon from the above figures for it.

Try a saloon for a test drive if you can't find an estate - it can't be hugely different from the estate in terms of performance.

partyatmygaff

You could always buy a VAG TDi engined car.

An Audi A4/A6 TDi or similarly sized VAG car would meet all your requirements. They're very reliable (From my experience) and have a reputation for being very economical. Not only that but they tend to hold their resale value very well.

vectra

I just remembered something.

Last year while waiting for my car to arrive from Chek. I got a loan car for something like 6 or 7 weeks.
it was a '08 ( 2 year old ) octavia L&K 140PD with DSG.. If I remember correctly the mileage was around 90K kms.

As far as i know it did not give any ( or little ) trouble for those 2 year. While i had it the car was a pleasure to drive. ( I still sort of miss the DSG)
Anyhow.
R.O.R might come along here and fill you in on the cars history as he knew the car from new.
That seemed to tick many boxes for you I think?

bazz26

JJJJNR wrote: »

This would do you very nicely.

That 2.0 TDi PD unit is notorious for being unreliable, injectors, oil pump all known for going pear shaped.

JJJJNR

The TDi 2.0 16V Transverse engines i.e. BKD, AZV are a lot more reliable than the 2-liter Longitudinal engines as seen in audi's Superb BLB, BPW etc.

YouTookMyName

This has plenty power. Very Comfortable too.

BrianD3

A bit of perspective needed. While there is potential for big bills on modern diesels, do you see broken down diesel cars littering the roads of Ireland? I certainly don't.

The ADAC collect stats on breakdowns in Germany and many models are very reliable. Granted, the ADAC don't separate petrol from diesel cars when giving ratings. But given the popularity of diesels in Germany, if there was a major problem with diesels breaking down, this would show up in the stats.

So diesel cars are not breaking down but there is potential for big bills due to problems with injectors, turbos etc.. This potential is likely to be highly exaggerated on forums such as this. But if you are still are worried about it, buy a car with an excellent warranty (having checked T & Cs carefully)

eg of good warranties
Hyundai 5 year unlimited mileage
Kia 7 year limited mileage
Renault 3 year limited mileage extended to 5 year unlimited mileage by a 3rd party

There are new Hyundai and Kia family cars coming soon with 136 and 160 bhp 1.7 diesel engines. Renault has a new 130 bhp 1.6 with excellent torque, its going in the Scenic first. There's already a 2.0 litre 150 bhp in the Laguna. Etc.

vectra

YouTookMyName wrote: »

This has plenty power. Very Comfortable too.

Good Lord...
I thought these sort of replies were solely for octavia bashing threads :pac: