Melbourne Tram Fine

Pisco Sour

Been on working holiday visa in Melbourne since December. Was all bright eyed and bushy tailed starting off, paying the ridiculous overpriced tram tickets, then while struggling to find a job for the first month, and living off the euro out here, I noticed that not once was I being checked, so I stopped paying for tickets.

Anyway it wasnt until around mid april when I finally go caught. I gave them my address at the time, but moved out about a week later (had planned to move anyway) and gave them my Irish Garda ID (not sure if they even took the number, cant remember).

Anyway, I've checked my old address numerous times and only in the last week has the fine arrived, a good 6 weeks after the so called crime.

I really dont want to pay the fine as am saving for travelling from July to mid august on the West Coast, and then for 2 weeks to Korea before coming back.

Now I could appeal, as I have a sob story prepared, but if that doesnt work then I am screwed and will definetely have to pay (even though I will have no address in Melbourne for the next 6 months after early July, as I will be doing farmwork after travelling).

So the alternative I am thinking is just write "Return to sender, recipient moved out mid May" and send it back to them. If they find me I will just say I never received the fine, I moved out, asked a former housemate to send me any mail, and that that fictional person clearly forgot, and just offer to pay and say "its only money, i'll pay".

I'm just a bit worried as I will be leaving the country for 2 weeks. Will this pop up when coming back from Korea? Can they deport me over this? If I go along with my story of never receiving the fine and offering to pay will I be ok? Will they believe me?

Will this have an impact on applying for a 2nd year visa?

I didnt give them my passport details. Can they somehow get hold of them from my Garda ID number, or from my old address?

Please none of this "you do the crime, you pay the fine". <Mod SNIP> Bloody drink driving fines are only 119. Such madness.

For the record I have been buying monthly passes since I got caught and am keeping them just in case I will ever need to show them, to prove how I obey the law

ballooba

You did the crime, pay the fine. It's a public forum, so you don't get to dictate what responses you receive. It sounds like the fine is cheap for all the tram trips you stole.

I understand there is a question about debts to government when applying for a visa.

Vorsprung

ballooba wrote: »

You did the crime, pay the fine. It's a public forum, so you don't get to dictate what responses you receive. It sounds like the fine is cheap for all the tram trips you stole.

I understand there is a question about debts to government when applying for a visa.

+1

s.c

04072511 wrote: »

"you do the crime, you pay the fine"

Suck it up and pay the fine like everybody else. You were quick to find out the law when it suited you so it works both ways.

Pisco Sour

s.c wrote: »

Suck it up and pay the fine like everybody else. You were quick to find out the law when it suited you so it works both ways.

I'll pay it if I have to. Was just wondering if there was a way I can get around it, and whether they would actually check it if I just wrote "return to sender, recipient moved out" on the envelope and sent it back.

I am entitled to appeal also, so rather than paying, maybe I could do that first, have nothing to lose, and even if its not successful it gives more time to pay. But not sure if they will believe what ever story I give them. Maybe play the foreigner card.

And yes I appreciate the irony of this, considering my dealings with the landlord, but I have changed my tune since I got caught and have travelled with a valid ticket for every day for the last 7 weeks since. It's just a lot of money so if I can get away with it I'll give it a shot.

Pisco Sour

Fair enough that its my fault that I incurred the fine and nobody elses, but seriously have a look at these fines...

http://www.transport.vic.gov.au/DOI/DOIElect.nsf/$UNIDS+for+Web+Display/9F3E629A402A12A8CA25775200003B5B/$FILE/PTDFeesFines2010.pdf

$176 for having your feet on the seat FFS, what a bunch of scammers!!

Fare evasion, and dirtying seats incurs a greater fine in this country than drink driving!

I believe they used to have a fine for people who didn't have a valid ticket when standing at the train platform. Supposedly you needed to pay for a ticket to stand at the platform even if you were just there to meet somebody getting off the train. I think they have got rid of that now though.

kiwipower

Is
1) Not paying the fare theft?
2) Trying to avoid paying the fine also illegal?
Is it not boards.ie policy not to entertain illegal behavior?

Your lucky, If I remember right in Brisbane the fine for not paying for the train could be $1,000 or something as large.

If you cant do the time dont do the crime.

Zambia

Mate if you don't pay the fine ends up in the hands of the Sheriffs, the sherrifs will attempt to reclaim the money. The sheriffs can imprison you eventually if other avenues are exhausted. They can also tag you so if you are spoken to by police, police cant direct the Sherrifs on to you.

Will this affect future visas, yes it could the conditions of your present visa do contain little things about not commiting crime. While fare evasion might not get you noticed evading paying fines as well starts to rack up.

Plus if you do stay here and possibly want to work for the goverment. Its not gonna look good.

Here are the drink driving penalty the least is about 300 bucks and 10 demerit pionts.
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/SafetyAndRules/RoadRules/Penalties/DrinkDrivingPenalties.htm

Seriously pay the fine it is the simple option an you aske for the simplest option.

Pisco Sour

Zambia wrote: »

Here are the drink driving penalty the least is about 300 bucks and 10 demerit pionts.
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/SafetyAndRules/RoadRules/Penalties/DrinkDrivingPenalties.htm

One penalty unit is 119 dollars. I wasnt aware the minimum fine was 2.5 units, and so 300 dollars. I got my facts wrong so probably should change my latest blog about it.

However the speeding fine for exceeding speed limit by up to 10km/h is 149 dollars. Getting away from the original topic for the moment, as we have established that I should pay the fine, can somebody please justify how they can charge people 176 dollars for having feet on a tram seat? And how can this be higher than speeding?

hussey

Oh for god sake, 'so called crime' of course it is a crime, if car owners didn't pay insurance or motor tax is that fine too?

Who do you think pays for you not paying your fare?
Tax payers ...

Drink drivers ... are you seriously comparing drink drivers ?

and now you post asking for ways out of it?

You had free travel from Dec -> April surely that is worth more than $179?

Mod Don't even think of asking for ways around this, there will be no illegal suggestions here please

d.pop

04072511 wrote: »

Fair enough that its my fault that I incurred the fine and nobody elses, but seriously have a look at these fines...

http://www.transport.vic.gov.au/DOI/DOIElect.nsf/$UNIDS+for+Web+Display/9F3E629A402A12A8CA25775200003B5B/$FILE/PTDFeesFines2010.pdf

$176 for having your feet on the seat FFS, what a bunch of scammers!!

Fare evasion, and dirtying seats incurs a greater fine in this country than drink driving!

I believe they used to have a fine for people who didn't have a valid ticket when standing at the train platform. Supposedly you needed to pay for a ticket to stand at the platform even if you were just there to meet somebody getting off the train. I think they have got rid of that now though.

Mate, after a few weeks of scoping the place out you decided to cheat and rob the transit authority. You got caught, I'm delighted, if you don't like the rules, bugger off home, you chose to come here and nobody forced you on to the tram. What are grounds are you appealing on? "Begorrah your honour, shure bejaysus aren't i only a thick paddy and didn't know i had to pay". Thanks mate, really doing the rest of us who will still be here when you leave a good turn.

Pisco Sour

I'll pay the damn fine.

For you information, I paid for every train I took since arriving (except the times I genuinely forgot to validate). It was just the trams I didn't pay for, and I didn't really start using trams much until February/ March. I guess I just fell into the habit of not paying for tickets as it seemed like they never checked. When I got caught it woke me up and I've paid since. I still think the fines are excessive though.

I read about a woman who challenged the authorities about why the fine was so high and they said that it is because most people don't pay the fines so they need to have them at such a high price to cover those who don’t pay. This person said she refused top pay for other peoples fines and so they ended up just cancelling her fine.

cianor

04072511 wrote: »

Can somebody please justify how they can charge people 176 dollars for having feet on a tram seat? And how can this be higher than speeding?

It would be a rare occurrence for somebody to receive this fine. More likely would be that you would be told to take your feet off the seat. It is there so that people will think twice about putting their feet on seats. Putting feet on seats can make them dirty and wet, thus denying others the opportunity of using them. It also reduces the longevity of the seat covering and this costs money to replace.

Yes most of us do not know all the fines, and some may sound silly, but that is our issue for not being informed when using public transport.

For the past month or so there has been a ticket check blitz, which I think was badly overdue to increasing fare evasion. According to metlink it was around 13% in 2010. IMO that is totally unacceptable. When I see the inspectors get on a tram, the number of people who then validate their ticket, or go purchase a ticket is crazy. I would guess that less than 13% of shoppers walk out from shops without paying, so why that many not paying for Public Transport is beyond me.

I remember years ago the ticket inspectors wore plain clothing and there may be up to 8 of them sitting on a tram. Once the tram left a particular stop up them got in unison and targeted those they saw getting on without validating. Personally I would like a return to that. There is no excuse for fare evasion and it should be 0%, not 13%.

Slunk

My mate was caught in Sydney and moved shortly afterwards. Didn't pay it. Nothing ever happened over it. That was last year. I wouldn't pay it if i was caught.

Pisco Sour

cianor wrote: »

It would be a rare occurrence for somebody to receive this fine.

My housemate got done for having her feet on the seat.

My mate was on the train one night and he saw no joke 6 people get done for having their feet on the seats. This was after they tried to do him for the same thing, but he managed to show complete ignorance to the whole thing, and played the foreigner card and got away with it. Its an utterly obsurd fine.

cianor wrote: »

I remember years ago the ticket inspectors wore plain clothing and there may be up to 8 of them sitting on a tram. Once the tram left a particular stop up them got in unison and targeted those they saw getting on without validating.

There are plenty of legit reasons for getting onto a tram without validating. If you have a weekly or monthly pass and you have already validated once then there really isn't a whole lot of point in validating again. Just because you see somebody get on the tram and not validate does not mean for a second they are evading the fare. I have a monthly pass now, and validate only on the first day of each month.

spunkymunky

30 dollars a week (2 hours work on minimum wage) for a weekly ticket. You can use the trains, buses and trams. Expensive? I think not. Just buy the ticket. Pay the fine, suck it up.
I was guilty of validation when i saw the inspectors get on but thats was when i just got here and was skint and for like 2 weeks. Never liked it, constantly watching for them!! (I hang my head in shame!) Figured its easier just to buy the ticket and sleep on the tram in the morning!
In my opinion, its good reliable transport and worth the 30 a week. Sure back home dont you need separate tram, dort and bus tickets??

With regard the police speeding fines. A friend was done on the great ocean road, 180 dollar fine. He wrote a nicely worded letter explaining what happen (something like 100 zone to a 60 and he just didnt react in time, not sure) and it worked and they let him off!! Which was nice

cianor

04072511 wrote: »

There are plenty of legit reasons for getting onto a tram without validating. If you have a weekly or monthly pass and you have already validated once then there really isn't a whole lot of point in validating again. Just because you see somebody get on the tram and not validate does not mean for a second they are evading the fare. I have a monthly pass now, and validate only on the first day of each month.

Actually you are required by law to always validate your Metcard/Myki before entering a train platform and each time you board a tram or bus for every trip. I am aware that most people do not (when they have a valid ticket).

I agree that not validating your ticket does not mean you are evading the fine, but if you are a ticket inspector who would you check first, the person who validated a ticket getting aboard the tram or the person who did not?

mowhawk

Oh my god, you poor thing. Imagine the nasty authorities want to fine you for not paying your fare share. Perhaps you could tell them that you are a leech and look for a reduction of your fine. You are only scum.

hussey

Mod If you disagree with the OP's action then say so and why, don't revert to insults please

Pisco Sour

mowhawk wrote: »

You are only scum.

And I'm sure you are a saint, and have never put a foot wrong in life!

hussey

04072511 wrote: »

And I'm sure you are a saint, and have never put a foot wrong in life!

Mod Don't feed the troll please.

kiwipower

04072511 wrote: »

My housemate got done for having her feet on the seat.

My mate was on the train one night and he saw no joke 6 people get done for having their feet on the seats. This was after they tried to do him for the same thing, but he managed to show complete ignorance to the whole thing, and played the foreigner card and got away with it. Its an utterly obsurd fine.

Did I miss something?
You are the OP for this thread?

You claimed at the begining of the thread that you where evaiding paying for your Public Transport ticket because you saw they were not being inspected? Now you are giving two examples you know of personnally where there have been inspectors on the Public Transport?

Pisco Sour

kiwipower wrote: »

Did I miss something?
You are the OP for this thread?

You claimed at the begining of the thread that you where evaiding paying for your Public Transport ticket because you saw they were not being inspected? Now you are giving two examples you know of personnally where there have been inspectors on the Public Transport?

No need to be pedantic. Do you need specific statistics.

My friend got questioned about feet on the seat on the TRAIN. I have already said I have paid for the train throughout my time here. But until April, not once did anybody check me on the TRAM. I was skinned early on in my WHV and avoided paying the tram fares as a result, because it was so easy to get away with it (like another poster above has also admitted). I however didn't change my ways and just fell into a habit of not paying. Not saying it's right, but that's how it was. Since I've been caught, I haven't thought twice about doing it again. Happy now?

My housemate I have only met in May, since I have moved into my new place. She got done on the tram a few years ago.

melb

Free trams ride over time in Melbourne.... $400

Fine for no ticket...........$170


Thinking they had forgot about you only to get the letter 6 weeks later...... priceless


Your better off paying the fine for piece of mind when you return if nothing else.

Pisco Sour

melb wrote: »

Free trams ride over time in Melbourne.... $400

Fine for no ticket...........$170


Thinking they had forgot about you only to get the letter 6 weeks later...... priceless

Haha, yeh well they had said it takes up to 4 weeks so I just assumed they made some sort of admin error.

I haven't had 400 worth of free trams. I've paid for loads of trains through countless 2 hour tickets, and have purchased around four 2x10 tickets aswell. The day they busted me, they took my 2x10 ticket (worth 30 dollars) which still had 8 rides left on it. I have kept my ticket they gave me which I need to show to get my 2x10 back. If after paying this fine, they do not give me back that ticket, I swear there will be hell to pay!!

Chris P. Bacon

I got caught on a tram in Flinders Street a few years ago by two undercover inspectors,and while i wasnt trying to avoid paying i actually had a ticket in my wallet i just forgot to put it in the time stamp thing,they still fined me and i did pay it,cant remember how much it was but i didn't forget to stamp any other time after it.

Number_8

OP - I lived in Melbourne for 6 months and spent all of that time in a share house. I used to get the train into the city so I payed $30 for a weekly ticket which covered me for tram trips in zone 1 on the odd occasion that I needed to use them.

Most of my housemates used trams daily and never payed for their tickets. At all. We lost count of the amount of fines that our house received in the mail. None of my housemates ever payed a fine and some of them racked up a good few each. All of them got away with it... I know a couple of them left the country (New zealand, Bali) and came back after a few weeks and they were not questioned about it.

If you're applying for another visa or have any long term plans for australia it would definitely be something that would come back to haunt you. Otherwise I think you would get away with it. Not that I'm condoning such action.

old_aussie

04072511 wrote: »

Fair enough that its my fault that I incurred the fine and nobody elses, but seriously have a look at these fines...


$176 for having your feet on the seat FFS, what a bunch of scammers!!

Fare evasion, and dirtying seats incurs a greater fine in this country than drink driving!

I believe they used to have a fine for people who didn't have a valid ticket when standing at the train platform. Supposedly you needed to pay for a ticket to stand at the platform even if you were just there to meet somebody getting off the train. I think they have got rid of that now though.

If you find our laws don't suit you, why don't you just piss-off and don't come back to Oz.

Bye

montane

old_aussie wrote: »

If you find our laws don't suit you, why don't you just piss-off and don't come back to Oz.

Bye

Racist remark :mad:

hussey

montane wrote: »

Racist remark :mad:

Mod If you have a problem with a post report it. Also it's not racist, please don't accuse people of this, when clearly it is not racist.

hussey

Closing thread, last couple of posts nothing but abuse and nonsense