DC = Drastic Change, come september?

Fysh

I'm surprised nobody's posted about this, but post-Flashpoint it looks like DC are doing a CoIE-style reboot. More info here (CBR) and here (BleedingCool).

The big thing, as far as I'm concerned, is full day-and-date digital releases. The revamping of characters and costumes, coupled with full-on digital, suggests to me that DC wants to get audiences from outside the established comics market to start reading.

Will it work? Who knows. I do know that I've mostly steered clear of DC comics because the ridiculous nature of the continuity that they keep trying to adhere to is off-putting. Hopefully they'll change that. Depending on the pricing of their digital offerings there are a couple of titles (Eg Batgirl) that I might pick up, on the basis that the reviews have been consistently good but I don't have space for yet more paper comics.

Morag

I think that it is yet another fecking reboot is why people aren't arsed.
I used to think that all the alternate timeline/dimensions which marvel would have going at the same time was crazy but at least it means they don't keep pressing the big reset button. But I guess that each of the big title 'Heros' have a definitive enough story even where they intersect with the justice league, so there is only so much story to tell and so it gets retold over and over with only great bits of work like 'Killing Joke' not be over written.

A good example of this which I picked up for my kids is "Superman Batman The greatest stories ever told" compilation, which was published in 2007 and has stores between the two going right the way back to 1952 for the first encounter.

I guess I see DC doing a universal reboot to be like the Doctor regenerating.
We get stories retold, new clothes, new quirks but it's still the same characters.

Fysh

Sharrow wrote: »

I think that it is yet another fecking reboot is why people aren't arsed.
I used to think that all the alternate timeline/dimensions which marvel would have going at the same time was crazy but at least it means they don't keep pressing the big reset button. But I guess that each of the big title 'Heros' have a definitive enough story even where they intersect with the justice league, so there is only so much story to tell and so it gets retold over and over with only great bits of work like 'Killing Joke' not be over written.

A good example of this which I picked up for my kids is "Superman Batman The greatest stories ever told" compilation, which was published in 2007 and has stores between the two going right the way back to 1952 for the first encounter.

I guess I see DC doing a universal reboot to be like the Doctor regenerating.
We get stories retold, new clothes, new quirks but it's still the same characters.

I see your point, but if you want new stories, why are you looking at characters who are 70-odd years old? Why not go somewhere that isn't lumbered with all the baggage and preconceived notions of what the character/series "is" or "should be" about?

It's not like Marvel is immune to this nonsense either, in the last 20 years we've had Heroes Reborn and Disassembled as effective reboots, not to mention the soft-reboot-that-wasn't under the Heroic Age banner.

To be honest, the reboot aspect of this is the least interesting part for me - I'm much more interested in the linewide digital publishing aspect.

Penn

Admittedly, the only DC stuff I read is Batman, and even then its only been stuff from recent years. But I love the direction they've taken with it during Grant Morrison's run. Batman and Robin, Batman Inc., Red Robin...

To have it now go back to genesis stories, even if they're different, is just annoying in a way. Sure, some characters throughout may have become stale and could do with a reboot, but there are some who don't.

I'm skeptical, but it will be interesting to see what happens

Morag

Why read them?
Well I do tend to read comics by smaller publishers, so I do like new and intresting stories and concepts explored in the story telling which is comics but I guess it's a comfort thing.
To go back to chars, stories and themes which are familiar.

As for the digital delivery, it's been bound to happen, more and more people want to dl legally then make the trip to the comic store which esp if you are in Ireland can be far enough away.

With smartphones and tablets being the tipping point they can reach a bigger market and one which may have been untapped before. No one will know what you have dled and read on your device with out the stigma which can surround comic stores and readers.

The only concern I would have is that the same thing might happen with comic book publishers as has happened with game publishers, they end up producing inferior products for that new bigger market alienating their more traditional customer base.

Mr. K

The digital release thing is really cool, it'll be interesting to see how it affects the market in the long term.

I hate reboots though. DC's long history might make it seem intimidating for new readers, but it's so rewarding for those go to the effort.

Morag

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/06/06/batgirl-barbara-gordon-disabled/

Well this is unexpected, still have very mixed feelings about it.

JangoFett

I started reading DC in 2004 and since then we've had at least 12 reboots, origin retellings, retcons and all that kinda ****e. Since I've started reading I've read as much as I can from the previous 60 years of stories and the characters have been rebooted and retooled on countless occasions.

And you know what? We (the comic community) have all gotten over it because the basic heart of each character is still there and the stories are great!

When Hal Jordan returned from the grave a lot of people didn't like it, but look at Green Lantern now, one of the top comics, amazing stories and an amazing looking film on the way, ALL on the back of Hal Jordan's return!

I'm going to be optimistic about it. It's a big change, but so was Crisis on Infinite Earths!

I'm going to get my regular titles, and maybe one or two new ones and see what they have in store for us.

All will be well.

Ridley

What will be DC be losing from Superman's origin story, if anything?

I'm reading stuff like this but it's not clear to me what DC might not be able to do come 2013 if they don't come to some arrangement.

cat_rant

Sharrow wrote: »

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/06/06/batgirl-barbara-gordon-disabled/

Well this is unexpected, still have very mixed feelings about it.

URGH! DISLIKE DISLIKE!

Barb became so much more when she became Oracle and embraced her nerditude. I felt that it was one direction DC took that was *new* and now they are looking at retconning it! guurrr. So unhappy.

Fysh

So, the New DC line has started to arrive - first Justice League #1 last week, and now another dozen or so this week including new Batman, new Superman and new Stormwatch.

Personally, I quite liked Action Comics #1 - it had a similar sort of sensibility to All Star Superman, in a way I can't really describe.

Stormwatch #1, however, I thought was pretty disappointing. I've enjoyed Paul Cornell's writing elsewhere and will still pick up Demon Knights #1, but this was just clunky. Mediocre-at-best artwork and too much exposition in the dialogue, not to mention several badly-crowbarred-in infodumps. Which is a pity, because it sounds like Cornell's got some interesting ideas of what to do with the book, if only it weren't stuck very much in the shadow of the Ellis-era material.

What did you lot make of it?

Mr. K

I've only read Justice League and Action Comics so far (with Detective Comics and Batgirl at home). JL was only alright, I'll wait til the first arc is finished to judge), but Action Comics was excellent.

Morag

I've read the Batgirl reboot #1.

She still got shot by The Joker only the bullet didn't hit in the same place and still had the trauma and rehabilitation to go through. It wasn't as bad as I had fear but it's not great either.

This pretty much sums up a lot of what has happened to the female chars.

Fysh

I've read about as much as I have any interest in reading, and it's a mixed bag. I should clarify that I've been reading absolutely no mainstream-DCU comics for at least 5 years.

Action Comics #1 - I liked this, though I can sort of see the complaints about it being Spider-Man in a Superman outfit.
Stormwatch #1 - Dreadful. Ugly art and yet another po-faced story that basically puts us in the same territory that Warren Ellis ploughed through ten or fifteen years ago, only without the spark that made those stories so great. A shame, as Cornell is usually much better.
Demon Knights #1 - Pretty good. Basically the Magnificent Seven in medieval times. Plus, humour! This is the Cornell that gave us Knight & Squire, and, well, please sir - I want some more.
Wonder Woman #1 - pretty good, basically a horror yarn with ancient gods & mythological characters.
Batwoman #1 - Absolutely excellent, though I should clarify that with J H Williams III on art I was almost guaranteed to love this.

On the other hand, there's Catwoman and Red Hood & the Outsiders, which have managed to perpetuate exactly the sort of image of comic fans that the US industry has been plagued by for decades. Well played, DC. *sigh*

Ridley

The Big Sexy Problem with Superheroines and Their 'Liberated Sexuality'

Fysh

And a little over a month on, what sheen there was has worn off the new DC titles for me.

Action Comics #2 was a jump-off for me - $3.99 for 20 pages of a boring story, with the rest taken up by ads and 8 pages of Grant Morrison and Rags Morales telling you how they came up with the redesign, is a formula for disappointment.

I was going to pick up Wonder Woman #2 but forgot about it when I was at the comic shop, then realised I wasn't really arsed one way or the other. And I refused to go near Stormwatch #2 on the basis of how tedious #1 was.

Batwoman and Demon Knights were both decent second issues though, so I'll probably stick with them for a while. Which means I'm up to 2 monthly DC titles from no monthly DC titles before. Not bad, but on the other hand I'm moving away from monthly comics and towards stuff like the Cinebook reprints, so it could've been better if they'd taken a more adventurous approach...

Other links of snarky relevance to the relaunch:
Dresden Codak's Aaron Diaz revamps the Justice League, the Legion Of Doom, and Batman. He also offers a tongue-in-cheek interpretation of how DC would reinterpret Dresden Codak's characters.

I also saw this page from Kate Beaton's Hark! A Vagrant comic, which is a sort of bible for understanding what American comics mean by "Strong Female Character". (It seems "dresses like a stripper" is a large part of the definition...)

Hatgirl

I tried out Demon Knights #1 and All Star Western #1. They were grand, but I just couldn't be bothered getting emotionally invested in the story when it's all going to be rebooted again in 18months.

To anyone who thinks DC isn't going to do another reboot: AHAHAHAHAHA! :rolleyes:

Mr. K

I'm really enjoying Action, Superman, Batman and Nightwing. I had heard that Superman wasn't great, but I love the Daily Planet focus.

Saruwatari

Following a couple of titles, Animal Man and All-Star Western are my top picks so far. Probably one of the few people hanging onto Men of War, purely because I think there's a lot of potential in the 'regular joes VS metas' concept, and I like supporting war comics. Thankfully the writer (Ivan Brandon) is leaving after the sixth issue, here's hoping someone else can take it in a solid direction this time...

Fysh

Hatgirl wrote: »

I tried out Demon Knights #1 and All Star Western #1. They were grand, but I just couldn't be bothered getting emotionally invested in the story when it's all going to be rebooted again in 18months.

To anyone who thinks DC isn't going to do another reboot: AHAHAHAHAHA! :rolleyes:

I'll be honest, given the subject matter I don't expect Demon Knights to live on past about 12 issues unless DC have an unprecedented commitment to widening the range of genres and subject matter they publish in comics form.

As for a future reboot....maybe they will, maybe they won't. I think 18 months is only likely if, in the next 6 months, they lose everything they've gained with the New 52 initiative. Even if they do, though - I guess it depends on what you're looking for from your comics.

"It won't matter in 18 months so I'm not reading it" is not what I would consider a convincing reason not to read a given series - either the story it tells is good on its own merits, or it's not. Being bound into the narratives told elsewhere won't turn a bad story into a good story, and suddenly being unbound from other narratives won't retroactively make it a bad story.