Swords League Race #8 - Corduff

Lusk Doyle

Oh lads what a race! After not finishing on our last visit here I was certain that I would finish this time. Got caught by group 3 just after we caught group 1 on the nags head oh lap 2 and stayed with them until halfway up the nags head on lap 3. Finished with 07 Lapierre I think in maybe 20th place or so. Stayed away from semi scratch and scratch but most importantly of all I stayed ahead of Raam!

Savage race. Bring on Sunday.

Oh and the group 2 up and overs finally worked! Hooraay!

Thanks marshalls and organisers. Really enjoyed it.

Ave speed was 36.2kph for me.

Raam

Who won?

Lusk Doyle

No idea but it was someone from group 2 or 3 for sure.

GlennaMaddy

having been dropped from group 4 in almost every race this year I decided to go with group 3. I'd say about half of group 3 should be in group 4 this would make the other half of group 3 take their turns, it was like an IVCA social event at the back.
Shelled out the back of group 3 the second time up nags but with help from 4-5 others we kept it within a minute all the way around to the next ascent. Scratch and some of group 4 caught me at the top of nags and I hung on until Ballyboughil but didn't have the legs to go any further.

I cycled over from Skerries, 100km spin when I add it up which is the longest spin I've done since March.

Will try to make this the start of my season, if a little late:D

English Bob

Mmmmmmm!!!
Chips have never tasted so goooood!!!!!!

Lusk Doyle

English Bob wrote: »

Mmmmmmm!!!
Chips have never tasted so goooood!!!!!!

Yea had a packet of original pombear in the car on the way back. Mmmm replaced lost salt!

kennyb3

Bloody hell that was tough - sickening hill. In group 2 - 1st lap all grand up and overs worked well for once, myself and lusk doyle floated off the front on the nags head and had a brief chat. Second lap more of the same - caught most of group 1 which seemed in bits. i pushed bit too hard early on nags head (inexperience) and missed the main group 3 train.

Got in with other group 2ers and 3ers. Good group with up and overs working well. Caught plenty of others, some tagged on and dropped a few. 3rd time up the hill was agony and raam and some lad in green jersey flew by, then scratch got us at top of the hill. Tried to tag on - didnt last long. Decided to call it a day after 3 laps - legs cramping to bits.

Only one ride over an hour in last 2 months due to injury killing me. Hopefully sort that out before the race in two weeks time.

Really enjoyable and great to have a bit of warmer weather

killalanerr

i was back in goupo 2 tonight the week of ras frys and pints were playing heavy on my legs, as lusk has said up and overs were working fine with very few passengers up to when we were caught good work guys,fair play to the guy from the group that gave us the talking to on the line,only down side was we were going to slow as was apparent when group 3 got up to us with a lap and a half to go !!,

i was happy with my race considering i had a week off i done my fair share up to when we were caught and was well pleased i was able to up my speed to hang on when the speed went up,have to say i was a bit surprised we were caught so soon ( me thinks some of the group 3 guys would be well able to go up a group or 2 ),i was a passenger from then on and had a major blow up at the bottom of the hill on lap 3 managed to get it back together and done a nice tempo to get over i was caught by group 4 and 5 and had a nice fast run in to the finish with the scrath group
not looking forward to sunday on the back of this performance is their going to be a separate A4 race ? who won

07Lapierre

Finally! Group 2 got there act together and worked well for two laps.
A great turn out, no crashes, and the weather was perfect!

Well done everyone, and a BIG thank you to the Marshalls and Joe for a great race.

kellt

What a race legs like jelly. Was also in group 2 tonight and got caught 2 nd time up nags head. We regrouped with several ridersand made it back justafter scratch. Really enjoyed completing tonight

Lusk Doyle

Does anyone know what happened to the lad from group 3 who ended up with his shoes in one hand, the bike in the other and trotting down the finish straight at the end?!!

Ryaner

kennyb3 wrote: »

Bloody hell that was tough - sickening hill. In group 2 - 1st lap all grand up and overs worked well for once, myself and lusk doyle floated off the front on the nags head and had a brief chat. Second lap more of the same - caught most of group 1 which seemed in bits. i pushed bit too hard early on nags head (inexperience) and missed the main group 3 train.

Not sure about the back half of group 3 as I was at the front, but myself and one other lad did slow down just behind then kick it up again to pass the group - in an attempt to break things up on the hill somewhat since I had no intention of finishing

manwithaplan

I went off in semi scratch. I felt more comfortable than I had the first time I joined the group two weeks ago. The group worked well in patches but I thought the effort wasn't consistent enough. I think I got the hang of fast up and overs and did a better job of it than a fortnight ago.

The second time up the hill, I picked a wheel, put the head down and stuck on it. The problem was that when I looked up I realised that the wheel I had picked had slipped off the leading group of 5 or 6. I had to pull around and ride back on but I measured it reasonably well, picking them up at the top.

When we joined the old N1 on the final circuit, Raam said to me that there must be a few riders from the group just behind. I think he planned to regroup but there was no one there. I hadn't realised there was only five of us left (I'd say others were strong enough but reckoned they had enough training in two circuits). With the smaller group, I was beginning to feel it and I had to work hard to do my turns.

The group split the last time up the hill with Raam and honkjelly pulling away, one in between and me and another guy in the rear. I was happy enough in that I didn't blow up and rode a good tempo all the way up. At that stage, I thought I'd just spin down to the finish but scratch came along to "rescue" me. I jumped on the back and we powered around to the finish (they were riding a pattern I hadn't seen before so I hope I didn't get in the way - thanks to the guy who told me what to do). We were almost on to a small group that included Raam and honkjelly 500 metres before the finish when I dropped a wheel as I was coming back down the line. I finished just behind that group and scratch.

Overall I was happy with my effort. It's the longest race I've done and I didn't eat anything on the way round - I might have to get over my luddite aversion to gels. No stats but honkjelly said the average speed was 38.something.

Raam

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Does anyone know what happened to the lad from group 3 who ended up with his shoes in one hand, the bike in the other and trotting down the finish straight at the end?!!

If it's the lad who I am thinking of, he punctured.

BTH

Group 3 was big and Group 3 was fast.
39.1kmph (higher even than the bog of the ring circuit in April) compared to 36.5 three weeks ago on this circuit (although I got dropped that time due to the crash).

Missing the last 2 weeks, and the increase in pace meant that I wasn’t able to work as much as I had been in previous weeks. I was working hard on the first lap up to the hill, but started the hill too strong and faded. Went from the front of the group at the bottom to the back at the end, and had to fight to re-attach. I managed that but I needed most of the rest of the lap to recover.
At this stage the group wasn’t working well at all, with 4or5 guys at the front seeming to do the vast majority of the work (probably too strong for group 3). This increased pace was hurting everyone else. Second time up the hill I started easy, and got stronger which seems to suit me better as I moved up through the field instead of going backwards.

Managed to hang on to the leaders on the third climb as well, so I knew I was going to finish with them. Bjorn Ludick was about 100m ahead of the pack from the top of the climb almost to the finish line, but he was eventually swallowed up. Rubbing wheels with the guy infront of me cost me a little momentum and meant I wasn’t going to contest the sprint (I’d probably have looked as ridiculous as the brothers Schleck anyway) but I was happy enough to have made it round in the lead group for the first time this year. Up to now I always seem to be behind the crash when it happens.

manwithaplan

Sorry - should have thanked Joe and the marshalls. Another excellent job.

I'm quite looking forward to bringing the young lad out with me marshalling so that he has some idea of what his Da gets up to on a Wednesday night. It will also reduce the questioning which generally goes:

"Did you win"?
"I stayed with my group and finished well enough"
"But did you win"?
"Someone from another group won"
"What are groups"?...
...ad infinitum!

Hungrycol

Man alive that was tough last night. In G3 and was worried at the start seeing some very strong riders in the group. I know the Nags head climb doesn't suite my build but I was dammed if I was going to get dropped like I did on this course a few weeks ago. I think the "head-wind" training over the last few weeks stood to me cos I managed to hang on first time round.

I was conscious on sticking to the front third of the bunch when we hit the Nags Head. I was comfortable on the flat but started to get a pain in my right knee and thought it wouldn’t hold up the second time up the Nags head, then we had G2 in our sights and concentrating on catching them took my mind off it a bit. Managed to stay with G3 on the 2nd climb but was suffering big time and unlike another poster picked a good wheel to suck on the way up. G2 jumped on and the bunch got huge but I managed to keep near the front by powering down the decent, weight and gravity are a grand thing. On the third lap a bunch of about 10 broke free on the Nags Head but we managed to catch them on the decent. That took some real motoring but was a relief when we did catch them.

BTH ^ mentioned Bjorn Ludick… who is this guy? He was in our G3 and is well strong and I reckon the reason G3 stayed away from G4 and scratch. He pushed the pace all the way around and on the final lap saw him a good 100m clear in the distance going through Ballboughal. He was caught, to my surprise, but then again the bunch ramped up the pace on the final road to the finish. I got a little boxed in and didn’t much left in the legs anyway to get out of the saddle for the final gallop to the line but still managed a respectable 12 or 14 or someit like that, just outside the top 10 is all I know.

Thanks to all the marshals and Joe and Sam. Thanks also to the police escort for G3, knew the traffic would behave themselves all the more for it. Thanks also to the guy man leaning on the wall outside his house (I think on the old N1) calling out time gaps. Thanks to the director, producer, family, friends and God .

Me going up the nags head = :eek: Me coming down = :cool:

kennyb3

Ryaner wrote: »

Not sure about the back half of group 3 as I was at the front, but myself and one other lad did slow down just behind then kick it up again to pass the group - in an attempt to break things up on the hill somewhat since I had no intention of finishing

Yeah you were on the front driving it up the nags head, i tried to hop on but that promptly finished me as my HR topped out and took a couple of mins to recover. thanks for that:D

Raam

Ryaner wrote: »

Not sure about the back half of group 3 as I was at the front, but myself and one other lad did slow down just behind then kick it up again to pass the group - in an attempt to break things up on the hill somewhat since I had no intention of finishing

Welcome to group 4.

BTH

Hungrycol wrote: »

BTH ^ mentioned Bjorn Ludick… who is this guy?

This guy

http://www.irishtriathlon.com/index.php/2011/05/fingal-sprint-triathlon-at-the-national-aquatic-centre/

http://www.irishtriathlon.com/index.php/2011/01/wheelworx-nass-duathlon-january-2011/

3rd in national champs
http://www.irishtriathlon.com/index.php/2010/08/dublin-city-triathlon-olympic-distance-championships/

cipo

^^^^bjorn^^^ can you say scratch??? ;-)

Ryaner

Raam wrote: »

Welcome to group 4.

I shall be moving up in the next race

BetterThanHoyte wrote: »

This guy

http://www.irishtriathlon.com/index.php/2011/05/fingal-sprint-triathlon-at-the-national-aquatic-centre/

http://www.irishtriathlon.com/index.php/2011/01/wheelworx-nass-duathlon-january-2011/

3rd in national champs
http://www.irishtriathlon.com/index.php/2010/08/dublin-city-triathlon-olympic-distance-championships/

cipo wrote: »

^^^^bjorn^^^ can you say scratch??? ;-)

That explains it. On the first lap I asked him to slow down as we were climbing at 450W and blowing the group apart that quick would have been pointless.

shaungil

As scratch had only 5 guys last night they used the team track technique not up and over. So straight line and one guy hammers at the front till he slows and then pulls over and goes straight to the back. this continues as next guy hammers then back and rest.

the four breakaways in Brendan Carroll did this to good effect. One of course finished 10th in the world Champs in Omnium tow of the others were in scratch last night.

I guess the advantage is you get more shelter and the strongers guys can do longer stints. I sat on the back for a half lap watching them as was totally cooked and you could feel the pace increase as the stronger guy went to the front. I guess it would only work for small groups.

Group 2 for me next week. Long sore very crampy night. Still cramping today

RobFowl

shaungil wrote: »

Group 2 for me next week.

That's made my day

cipo

@shaungil

I (Bikehub kit) must have been in group4 with you.. Thoroughly enjoyed trying to get back on to them after being dropped 2nd time up nags! Nearly made it, then saw sense and had a nice bit of speed work on the back of scratch before I went boom up nags last time round!!

Few lads in grp3 need to be called out!!
Noticeable difference from grp3 2 weeks ago to grp4 last night. Grp 4 much safer as you'd expect and get a good hard session in too.

Enjoying these races, thanks to swordscc, Joe, marshals etc. Fantastic!

manwithaplan

shaungil wrote: »

As scratch had only 5 guys last night they used the team track technique not up and over. So straight line and one guy hammers at the front till he slows and then pulls over and goes straight to the back. this continues as next guy hammers then back and rest.

That was it alright. I didn't realise what the pattern was when I latched on to them. I was worried about being dropped at the corner at the top of the Nag's Head so I moved up on the outside beforehand and got a nice shove for my trouble. A guy told me what to do and I did my couple of turns from there on. It's hard matching your pace to hook onto the last man after you do your turn - it was in that manoeuvre that I got dropped near the end.

Raam

manwithaplan wrote: »

That was it alright. I didn't realise what the pattern was when I latched on to them. I was worried about being dropped at the corner at the top of the Nag's Head so I moved up on the outside beforehand and got a nice shove for my trouble. A guy told me what to do and I did my couple of turns from there on. It's hard matching your pace to hook onto the last man after you do your turn - it was in that manoeuvre that I got dropped near the end.

That's actually a better way to ride in a smaller group. We should really have done that in ours when we were down to 6.

Raam

Has anyone got any snaps of the race? I saw one marshal was taking a vid at the turn off the Nag's Head.

shaungil

Cipo from my limited appearance in the race you seemed very strong but yu could slow down slightly off the front, (rich I know comingfrom me) Man with plan I'd wager the shove came froma gent in black gear and is an elser lemon in the club, but is brilliant fella to learn off.
You are better off hanging off the back of scrach anmd watching for a full lap and watching them than trying to work for a quarter of a lap and getting shelled. Last night 2 very experienced A1's a top Irish junior.

mc2000

Was in group 2, and they worked very well last night, great up and overs on the bits without the hill, and good tempo riding going up the hill to keep the group together. I honestly don't think we could have worked better, the reason grp3 caught us was we just didn't have the time gap, that's all, the group worked very smoothly and everyone doing their turn.

I got up the hill the 2nd time and even got over with the lead group (3 at that stage?) and was delighted with that, not many times [well, once :rolleyes:] I've stayed with the lead group over the top - and got down thru Ballyboghil only to bloody get a pinch puncture after the turn in the village. Bloody raging I was, even though I would've probably experienced severe pain/dropped/shelled sensation for the 3rd time up that hill

thanks again to Joe and all the marshalls, and to the Garda jeep as well - having the Garda jeep as a lead car was great - lots of cars got well out of the way when they saw that rolling through

Lusk Doyle

shaungil wrote: »

Cipo from my limited appearance in the race you seemed very strong but yu could slow down slightly off the front, (rich I know comingfrom me) Man with plan I'd wager the shove came froma gent in black gear and is an elser lemon in the club, but is brilliant fella to learn off.
You are better off hanging off the back of scrach anmd watching for a full lap and watching them than trying to work for a quarter of a lap and getting shelled. Last night 2 very experienced A1's a top Irish junior.

Elser lemon?

pprendeville

Missed a great race last night by the sounds of it. That's 2 weeks in a row. My wife was sick so I did the decent thing and helped with kids. Give me the Nags Head x3 any day.
Looking forward to racing it at weekend.

BTH

pprendeville wrote: »

Missed a great race last night by the sounds of it. That's 2 weeks in a row. My wife was sick so I did the decent thing and helped with kids. Give me the Nags Head x3 any day.
Looking forward to racing it at weekend.

A likely excuse. Saving yourself for this weekend, thats all you were doing. At home carb loading!

Beasty

Points are now posted on the website

(Bleedin' typical - no points awarded for last week's TT (correctly) when I got 4th, but they gave them out for the Hill Climb (incorrectly) when I crashed. 3 points for marshalling when I don't marshall, 2 points when I do:rolleyes: - it's a conspiracy I tell you - a conspiracy:D)

EDIT: that's prompted some action - hill climb points now removed:D

killalanerr

shaungil wrote: »

As scratch had only 5 guys last night they used the team track technique not up and over. So straight line and one guy hammers at the front till he slows and then pulls over and goes straight to the back. this continues as next guy hammers then back and rest

Ah so thats what was going on their ,i was hanging on the back the speed did go up a bit with the stronger riders at the front

honkjelly

Fun night. Really like that circuit and can't wait for Sunday!

Thanks for the lift home manwithaplan.

Raam wrote: »

That's actually a better way to ride in a smaller group. We should really have done that in ours when we were down to 6.

YES!!

nerraw1111

What's the up and over technique? I'm familar with the team track technique

Beasty

nerraw1111 wrote: »

What's the up and over technique? I'm familar with the team track technique

Two rows - the one on the ouside is going faster than the one on the inside. the guy at the front of the outside row goes to the front of the guy at the front of the inside and eases off to let the next guy through. You then recover in the slowed inside row until you get to the back and move back onto the outside row, picking up pace. You are only at maximum effort when pulling through from the outside to the inside at the front.

Raam

Beasty wrote: »

Two rows - the one on the ouside is going faster than the one on the inside. the guy at the front of the outside row goes to the front of the guy at the front of the inside and eases off to let the next guy through. You then recover in the slowed inside row until you get to the back and move back onto the outside row, picking up pace. You are only at maximum effort when pulling through from the outside to the inside at the front.

I have highlighted the bit which many people forget to do. If a rider keeps his speed up when he is at the front, then the next bloke has to accelerate in order to come through, which is wrong and disrupts the group and makes it increasingly difficult for the riders behind. Unless of course, you are a sadist and actually want to cause the hurt, like Shaungil.

shaungil

or Raam on Weds.

Raam

I was tryna keep up with honkjelly.

abc_xyz

Fun race Wed. Arrived up late as left the house without the helmet so had to go back for that. Group 3 was big and fast and not the smoothest working - seemed to be missing a few of the regular faces/jerseys? Managed my turns on the front on the flats but very nearly dropped going up the hill first time and drifted for the back second time just as we caught group 1/2. Regrouped on the descent (once realised there was no chance of getting back on) with a group of about 8. That group worked well together but with no massive urgency until it was split on the old N1 by a another group 3 rider in Swords gear who decided to up the effort (alot). I just managed to stick on his wheel and two others guys bridged up from the group. Didn't think I'd hang on on the hill but was actually the easiest trip up for me. Was motivated to get up hill before following group 4/5 came through and managed that. Paced off the group 3 rider and the other two lads disappeared somewhere on the hill but were replaced by (I'm guessing from previous reports) Raam and honkjelly. Stuck to them and did a little more work but couldn't manage full share. Caught by final group just before the finish by group 4/5 and rolled over line. Avg/Max HR 169/187 (compared to 165/185 last time). Avg spd 37.41 (compared to 35.19 last time, though I was caught up in crash then).

So my major question is why, if I can do the up-and-overs on the flat, is why I can't hang on on the hill when others who can't (aren't?) doing the up-and-overs can?

Beasty

abc_xyz wrote: »

So my major question is why, if I can do the up-and-overs on the flat, is why I can't hang on on the hill when others who can't (aren't?) doing the up-and-overs can?

...because those lazy so & so's are letting you (and others) do all the work. Going up the hill they can't hide - on the flat they can (and do;)) - so by the time you get to the hill you are knackered and they are fresh

Lusk Doyle

abc_xyz wrote: »

So my major question is why, if I can do the up-and-overs on the flat, is why I can't hang on on the hill when others who can't (aren't?) doing the up-and-overs can?

Good call - me thinks it be time to name and shame!

kennyb3

Beasty wrote: »

...because those lazy so & so's are letting you (and others) do all the work. Going up the hill they can't hide - on the flat they can (and do;)) - so by the time you get to the hill you are knackered and they are fresh

Yep thats it. Good few kept missing turns right before the hills in group 2 and it broke up the rythm. There was also a noticebale slow down and everybody afraid to do a turn right before the hill. We rode hard the rest of the way round the circuit but not surpised we got caught early with all the messing around before and on the early part of the hill. Thats why i rode up to lusk doyle on the first time over the hill in the hope it might speed things up a little.

I drilled myself all night and didnt miss a turn even when in with stronger riders (@ abc_xyz - i was also in that group of 8 - in a northwave jersey, that was some lift in pace and bang i was gone), it prob finished my race earlier but as has been said before it makes for a great workout.

I get that some people struggle on the hills and need a break to recover before but i dont think it makes sense (not to me anyway) sitting in for most of a circuit just to climb a hill and stay on a back of a group and shelter. Personally i ll keep going with killing myself until i get to stage where i can take every turn on the flat and hills and make it all the way around.

Lusk Doyle

kennyb3 wrote: »

Yep thats it. Good few kept missing turns right before the hills in group 2 and it broke up the rythm. There was also a noticebale slow down and everybody afraid to do a turn right before the hill. We rode hard the rest of the way round the circuit but not surpised we got caught early with all the messing around before and on the early part of the hill. Thats why i rode up to lusk doyle on the first time over the hill in the hope it might speed things up a little.

I drilled myself all night and didnt miss a turn even when in with stronger riders (@ abc_xyz - i was also in that group of 8 - in a northwave jersey, that was some lift in pace and bang i was gone), it prob finished my race earlier but as has been said before it makes for a great workout.

I get that some people struggle on the hills and need a break to recover before but i dont think it makes sense (not me anyway) sitting in for most of a circuit just to climb a hill and stay on a back of a group and shelter. Personally i ll keep going with killing myself until i get to stage where i can take every turn on the flat and hills and make it all the way around.

Hear Hear! I love being up the front dragging the group up the hills but at the same time I also love powering along on the front on the flats. I would not mind doing longer stints on the flat when in front but that aint possible with the up and overs!

kennyb3

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Hear Hear! I love being up the front dragging the group up the hills but at the same time I also love powering along on the front on the flats. I would not mind doing longer stints on the flat when in front but that aint possible with the up and overs!

What you on about? I only said i rode up to you to try increase the pace climbing the hills. Not that you missed turns. That was others waiting around for the hills taking a breather

Lusk Doyle

kennyb3 wrote: »

What you on about? I only said i rode up to you to try increase the pace climbing the hills. Not that you missed turns. That was others waiting around for the hills taking a breather

Eh, I was agreeing with you! :eek:

kennyb3

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Eh, I was agreeing with you! :eek:

Whoops!sorry i thought the hear hear bit was you thinking i was having a moan.

Beasty

We're such a harmonious bunch in Swords ....

kennyb3

Beasty wrote: »

We're such a hormonal bunch in Swords ....

FYP