DAB in NI after ASO in the ROI

Mr. Rabbit

Just speculating as to what the changes on DAB in NI will be after the analogue TV switch off is complete in the ROI at the end of next year.

I would assume Digital One will apply to broadcast here, if they haven't already done so ?

In which case I would expect Classic FM, Talksport, and UCB to move off the local multiplex and on to the national commercial one. This should leave room for two more stations at 128kbps on the local multiplex. I would expect these to be BBC Radio Foyle (what was the outcome of the test last year ?) and U 105.

In addition to Classic FM, Talksport, and UCB on Digital One, we should get the 3 Absolute stations along with Absolute Radio Extra. Planet Rock, Smooth FM, Jazz FM, BFBS, Amazing Radio and Premier, which should leave us with 31 stations or there abouts, which isn't bad.

Since the RTE stations are still in DAB and not DAB+, is there any way that RTE could broadcast throughout the whole of Ireland, including NI in the same way that the BBC does in the UK ? Would be nice to have RTE on DAB up here as well.

I would also assume that Digital One will use the current local commercial sites. This network of transmitters is now badly in need of upgrading, highlighted by the fact that the BBC have filled in quite a lot of the gaps in the province.

I see coments that digital switch off of radio in the UK has been put back to 2017 at least, and even then region by region. Think a lot of work needs to be done if even this is going to be acheivable, especially in NI.

Digifriendly

On a similar theme, my father in law lives in Groomsport, Co. Down just about 17 miles from Belfast and cannot receive Talksport on his digital radio. Signal is quite poor at present and he is using a good digital radio - the Pure One elite. Regarding DSO for radio, real disadvantage for me will be loss of regional stations e.g. BBC Radio Scotland/Wales which are available nationally via MW but after DSO I presume will only be available digitally and therefore you would have to live within reasonable range of a transmitter to pick them up. That might be OK for those in parts of Antrim/Down for BBC Radio Scotland but as for receiving BBC Radio Wales in NI that would be a total no no I guess. At least those with satellite can pick up these stations.

Mexecutioner

DAB, Does Anyone Bother?

Mr. Rabbit

Digifriendly wrote: »

On a similar theme, my father in law lives in Groomsport, Co. Down just about 17 miles from Belfast and cannot receive Talksport on his digital radio. Signal is quite poor at present and he is using a good digital radio - the Pure One elite. Regarding DSO for radio, real disadvantage for me will be loss of regional stations e.g. BBC Radio Scotland/Wales which are available nationally via MW but after DSO I presume will only be available digitally and therefore you would have to live within reasonable range of a transmitter to pick them up. That might be OK for those in parts of Antrim/Down for BBC Radio Scotland but as for receiving BBC Radio Wales in NI that would be a total no no I guess. At least those with satellite can pick up these stations.

Exactly the reason why the Commercial network is badly in need of upgrading Digi. Your uncle's reception highlight's the fact that it's just not good enough. Obviously he's receiving the Black Mountain transmitter and not Divis. I've problems anytime Colinward is off the air.

As for BBC Radio Scotland, Wales etc. there's always the internet, although my Pure Evoke Flow is having dreadful problems connecting to the internet at present (I may have to send it back to Pure).

I think people do listen to DAB (I still do). When it works it's very good. The Blackpool area is exellent for DAB for example, with loads of stations and great reception.

Likewise, internet radio, when it works.

lawhec

In theory, when all analogue television is switched off in the RoI, new DAB allocations on both sides of the border can be opened up. This includes for Northern Ireland a possible expansion for Digital 1 though it wouldn't be able to use 11D (as used in England & Wales) as it is reserved for a Tyrone & Fermanagh multiplex and 12A is reserved for a national multiplex in the RoI. 11A is reserved for a national UK multiplex. 10C is reserved for Belfast and east of the Bann, and 11C for a County L/Derry multiplex.

It would be possible for RTÉ to expand its DAB coverage into Northern Ireland from transmitters based there subject to licencing, but I would assume that any transmission along the coasts would be highly directional to avoid interference with 12C allocations in Britain including Dumfries & Galloway and in North West England.

Wherever any of this could happen in practice is another question.

watty

Digifriendly wrote: »

On a similar theme, my father in law lives in Groomsport, Co. Down just about 17 miles from Belfast and cannot receive Talksport on his digital radio. Signal is quite poor at present and he is using a good digital radio - the Pure One elite. Regarding DSO for radio, real disadvantage for me will be loss of regional stations e.g. BBC Radio Scotland/Wales which are available nationally via MW but after DSO I presume will only be available digitally and therefore you would have to live within reasonable range of a transmitter to pick them up. That might be OK for those in parts of Antrim/Down for BBC Radio Scotland but as for receiving BBC Radio Wales in NI that would be a total no no I guess. At least those with satellite can pick up these stations.

There is no Radio ASO.

DAB is not going to replace FM or MW. That's idea is dead.

Why RTE rolled out ANY DAB (and very little that they have) is a mystery.

Digifriendly

watty wrote: »

There is no Radio ASO.

DAB is not going to replace FM or MW. That's idea is dead.

Why RTE rolled out ANY DAB (and very little that they have) is a mystery.

Very relieved to hear this although this recent article hints at a switchover from FM to digital at some time in the future. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1382972/Digital-radio-switchover-delayed-5-years-audiences-ready.html

Sam Russell

Digifriendly wrote: »

Very relieved to hear this although this recent article hints at a switchover from FM to digital at some time in the future. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1382972/Digital-radio-switchover-delayed-5-years-audiences-ready.html

The only thing to beleive in the Daily Mail is agood portion of chips, and even that should be taken with a pinch of salt. I]That is an old joke but it fits[/I.

It refers to the UK. As far as I know, it might not happen in the UK, and if the DTT is anything to go by, we will all be dead and gone before it comes here. Long live FM.

Digifriendly

Sam Russell wrote: »

The only thing to beleive in the Daily Mail is agood portion of chips, and even that should be taken with a pinch of salt. I]That is an old joke but it fits[/I.

It refers to the UK. As far as I know, it might not happen in the UK, and if the DTT is anything to go by, we will all be dead and gone before it comes here. Long live FM.

And MW as well!

reboot

Mexecutioner wrote: »

DAB, Does Anyone Bother?

You may have a point to an extent.
For the sum of £30,I bought a Tesco Freeview Box.
This device ,reduced from £70,allows me to receive the following in S.Down.
RTE Mux (Gold etc),possibly from SFN 3 Rock?
BBC National Mux (Isle of Mann)
Massive signal strength and Quality.

On the television side of things,the following.
Freeview (Lite) SD.BBC,(IOM)
Freeview HD,ITV CH4 BBC1 HD(Not all the time (DVB-T2 and all that)Freeview SD and HD RTE,(DVB-T)
There is a fair bit of the aerial black art as we seem to be calling it,but little expence involved.

Makes DAB look a little sad,and for £30 ,worth a try.

Mr. Rabbit

Makes DAB look a little sad,and for £30 ,worth a try.

(a) You can't take a TV with you in the car.

(b) How many people listen to radio via Freeview ? Not many I would have thought. In fact, how many people are even aware you can receive digital radio on Freeview ?

Add to the fact that Classic FM is nowhere to be seen on Freeview !

DAB is good when it works i.e. if you have good reception, and a reasonable choice of stations. Reception is this area is great. The problem is the lack of stations.

if we had 40 plus stations on DAB I'd be happy.

internet radio is a better alternative, but it's dependant on a good internet connection. There are still a lot of peoiple that don't have a computer, let alone the internet.

Now if we had internet radios working of the 3G network, the same as mobile phones, that could possibly make DAB redundent. Is this a possibility in the near future ?

watty

No, as Internet is unicast. A mast can support any number of people that can receive it for AM, FM, DAB, DRM, DTT. But for Internet each person is a unique connection. About 10 to 20 simultaneous downloads ... per sector (3 per mast usually). 3 to 4 YouTube connections can use it all up.

Only real broadband can cope with Radio listening if it's any more than a minority interest. 3G and LTE (so called 4G) is only designed for short periods of bursty traffic. A few emails or checking a few websites.

But DAB is obsolete. Dab+ and DRM are far better. But actually it would have been simpler and better quality to have quadrupled the amount of FM stations by giving 175MHz to 235MHz when 405 line TV closed in 1985 in UK on Band III and do the same here after 2012. Home FM radios and car radios could have had a cheap adaptor box inline with aerial and 4 way switch to get the extra 3 "bands". New FM radios would be same price as FM radios today (1/10th of DAB radio and 1/10th to 1/50th power consumption) and have all new FM band. Any imported to Ireland between 1985 and 2012 would simply have been able to tune RTE1 and RTE2 TV sound in addition to ordinary FM.

DAB offers no extra quality, usually less. The spectrum allocated was a 1/4 or less than what was needed, the number of masts for coverage under estimated by x4 and it was too soon. The MP2 codec and transmission scheme wasn't good enough. Only now are decent enough Digital Radio systems getting developed. Many countries have abandoned DAB entirely or have no plans to ever introduce it. It's piece of British Politics.

reboot

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

(a) You can't take a TV with you in the car.

(b) How many people listen to radio via Freeview ? Not many I would have thought. In fact, how many people are even aware you can receive digital radio on Freeview ?

Add to the fact that Classic FM is nowhere to be seen on Freeview !

DAB is good when it works i.e. if you have good reception, and a reasonable choice of stations. Reception is this area is great. The problem is the lack of stations.

if we had 40 plus stations on DAB I'd be happy.

internet radio is a better alternative, but it's dependant on a good internet connection. There are still a lot of peoiple that don't have a computer, let alone the internet.

Now if we had internet radios working of the 3G network, the same as mobile phones, that could possibly make DAB redundent. Is this a possibility in the near future ?

Thanks for the reply,I wouldn't want you to think that I have any objection to Dab.In fact I have enjoyed receiving it for several years,both North and Southern transmissions.
As to our present friendly discussion,I like to think of it as perhaps a thought experiment,sometimes silly,but so was putting two Cat's whiskers together.
As to your comment regarding "watching TV" in the car,you don't have to in order to hear the digital radio from the STB.
Now for the silly thought experiment.
Way back when mobile phones were analogue,I believe people found they could use a 12v mast head amp,RTE freqs?,to improve the in car signal
The £30 Technicka box is 12v , and 11w.
We are told Divis Tx could be 35 times more powerful.
Surely a smart man could put all this together,and come to the conclusion that I am off my head,but hey its good to talk.
If those two boys in the US hadn't put the two Cat's whiskers together we would be having this friendly discussion.I can be Sirius.

Mr. Rabbit

I've often thought that it would surely be easy to manufacture a radio that could receive radio on both DAB and Freeview radio. It cant be that difficult to produce such a radio ?

The reason I mention this is that Freeview coverage will be far far better than DAB from the end of next year. The quality of radio broadcasts on Freeview are just as good (if not better) than DAB as well.

Mr. Rabbit

Dab+ and DRM are far better

.


Maybe, but the problem is watty the UK have absolutely no intention of introducing DAB+ either now or at Digital Radio switchover. Add to the fact that most DAB radios sold in the UK aren't DAB+ compatable (even with a software upgrade ?) and the consequences of switching to the mode would be a disaster for the radio industry, in my opinion.I have no experience of DAB + so I can't really tell how much better it is than DAB.

As for DRM, it's an even bigger disaster than DAB. The tests have been going on for at least 12 years now but were are the mass produced affordable DRM radios ? No where to be seen unfortinately. What a farce.

Mr. Rabbit

DAB offers no extra quality, usually less.

With respect to a good FM signal, yes. Completely agree with you.

However, even a low bit rate DAB signal is far better than listening to multiple AM signals out of phase with each other and with all that horrible distorion. Talksport is a prime example.