Sunday Times Lions XV

GerM

Seeing as silly season is now upon us, time for a pointless discussion thread. Stephen Jones and Peter Bills both selected their Lions XV this weekend. Jones' selection was based upon if the Lions was selected today. Bills' choices were on the basis that this would be the Lions come the 2013 tour.

Stephen Jones: 15. Ben Foden 14. Chris Ashton 13. Jamie Roberts 12. Gavin Henson 11. Max Evans 10. Jonny Sexton 9. Ben Youngs 8.Jamie Heaslip 7. Sam Warburton 6. Sean O'Brien 5. Courtney Lawes 4. Richie Gray 3. Adam Jones 2. Steve Thompson 1. Andrew Sheridan

Peter Bills: 15. Ben Foden 14. Chris Ashton 13. Tommy Bowe 12. Brian O'Driscoll 11. Keith Earls 10. Jonny Sexton 9. Ben Youngs 8. Jamie Heaslip 7. Sam Warburton 6. Sean O'Brien 5. Courtney Lawes 4. Richie Gray 3. Adam Jones 2. Sean Cronin 1. Cian Healy

Interesting selections unfortunately tainted by Stephen Jones and his inexplicable blind spots for several players and for English rugby in general. I don't think Andrew Sheridan would have Andrew Sheridan in there at the moment and you would have to think similarly for Henson, Thompson and Evans. Bills is closer to the mark for me in relation to what we'll see in 2 years but I can't see Cronin being there. I never thought I'd consider BOD for another Lions tour but there really is a lack of centres putting their hands up in the past 2 years. The main contenders in the centre from 2 or 3 years ago like Shanklin, Henson, Flutey have all fallen away badly or retired. Loathe to put Bowe in at 13. I haven't been impressed with him recently with the Ospreys and he has been shown up somewhat defensively in terms of his positioning and shooting out of the line in recent times. He has the class but I see Ashton and Earls going from strength to strength in the next 2 years.

The common players in both teams are Foden, Ashton, Sexton, Youngs, Heaslip, SOB, Warburton, Lawes, Gray and Jones. At this point in time, I wouldn't argue with any of those selections.

For what it's worth, at this point, my 2013 Lions:
15. Foden 14. Ashton 13. BOD 12. Roberts 11. Earls 10. Sexton 9. Youngs 8. Heaslip 7. Warburton 6. SOB 5. Lawes 4. Gray 3. Cole 2. Hartley 1. Healy

Would definitely consider someone else if they put their hands up at 13 given BOD will be 34 at the time. I'd be tempted to find room for Hook in there but he seems to be settled as a 10 now for Wales and will be for Perpignan. Warburton has been the stand out openside. Wallace won't be around and England played Haskell there who isn't really a 7. I think that pack is a good mix of power and mobility with plenty of grunt.

6 English, 6 Irish, 2 Welsh, 1 Scottish.

durkadurka

As soon as I saw Henson under Stephen jones list I stopped reading.

crisco10

Hilarious aritcle.

This time in 2007 Roberts hadn't even made his Cardiff debut. And he turned out to be one of the players of the tour.

Jamie Heaslip and Tommy Bowe were on their way to not making the Irish World cup squad. Both then started all 3 tests.

I know its silly season, but this is just mental.

A more fun article would be World Cup XV.

and Henson! brilliant!

wixfjord

Henson at 12 and Roberts at 13! Can Jones be any more blatant in simply trying to cause controversy? Real world trolling that is!

kilkennym

durkadurka wrote: »

As soon as I saw Henson under Stephen jones list I stopped reading.

+1

Blured

Stephen Jones is a bigger troll than George Hook!

totallegend

Stephen Jones is a parody of himself at this stage.

Thompson at hooker? Really? He's second choice for England now and will be 35 when the tour comes around. I don't see it.

TBH, I'd have been surprised if Jones hadn't picked Henson. It would be laughable if this guy's opinion wasn't taken seriously by so many people.

No real complaints about Bills' selection except the inclusion of Bowe at centre, see GerM's post.

Quint2010

Henson. Laughable. Surprised neither of them picked Hartley tho.

davidpfitz

GerM wrote: »

I never thought I'd consider BOD for another Lions tour but there really is a lack of centres putting their hands up in the past 2 years.

Looking at how he's structures his contract (finishes 2013) it would appear that he's planning his swansong to be at the Lions tour. A tour win (most likely in Australia) would be something on his wish-list.

wixfjord

Strauss for hooker?

My possible team would be something like

Healy
Strauss
Jones
Lawes
Gray
SOB
Warburton
Heaslip
Youngs
Sexton
Ashton
Davies
BOD/Bowe
Bowe/Earls
Foden

Clareman

Great call for Strauss at hooker, if things go the way they are it won't be too far of a stretch to have an all Leinster front row.

Second row and back row, I don't think you can pick them now, the IRB will no doubt make a raft of rule changes after the world cup to effect both lines so the game will have changed.

10 is Sexton's to lose I reckon, 9, have to say Conor Murray is really impressing me, I know he hasn't made his Irish debut yet but this is speculation

I reckon BoD's future position will be 12, he would be a great option there, the other 4 positions, total guess at this point.

thomond2006

durkadurka wrote: »

As soon as I saw Henson under Stephen jones list I stopped reading.

As soon as I saw Stephen Jones I stopped reading! :pac:

buck65

All Irish back row for me of O Brien, Wallace and Heaslip. Sexton, Earls, BOD, maybe Healy.

GerM

I know it's hypocritical but I wouldn't want to see Strauss selected. He'll only have been eligible for about 6 months when the squad is chosen. I wasn't happy with Flutey being chosen either. His selection was a total sham given he had previously played against the Lions and then left England straight after. I could accept the likes of Hines who had 9 years of playing for Scotland or even Catt who had a few years with England when called up as a replacement in '97. Would rather Strauss had some more time over here before he received such a call up.

jaansu

This is ridiculous to even predict who will be playing. That being said I reckon MacFadden has a shot at a place and O'Malley has impressed me when BOD was injured or on Ireland duty.

Bills' team is interesting though!

Lawes, Gray, SOB, Heaslip and Warburton would be an insane pack

Teferi

GerM wrote: »

I know it's hypocritical but I wouldn't want to see Strauss selected. He'll only have been eligible for about 6 months when the squad is chosen.

During the history of the Lions this has happened before, granted in the early days. Lads played for or against the Lions in one tour and played for or against them in the next. It happened a few times if I remember correctly.

SomeFool

Teferi wrote: »

During the history of the Lions this has happened before, granted in the early days. Lads played for or against the Lions in one tour and played for or against them in the next. It happened a few times if I remember correctly.

Rickey Flutey played against (05) and for (09) the Lions.

Ciaran-Irl

I don't rate Warburton as highly as everyone else seems to. I'd have Lewis Moody at 7 alongside O'Brien and Heaslip, for lack on any other options (Wallace too old and Jennings not starting for Ireland right now).

Teferi

SomeFool wrote: »

Rickey Flutey played against (05) and for (09) the Lions.

Yup, nothing wrong really.

profitius

Not that I'm taking it too seriously but POC is easily the number 1 second row. I'd have Gray alongside him.

He really isn't anymore.

profitius

Deleted User wrote: »

He really isn't anymore.

POCs workrate is as good or better than any secondrow in the world. He is a brilliant lineout reader, world class there. He is excellent at turning over ball in rucks. He is a leader and winner and Munster and Ireland are harder to beat with him in the team than out of the team. The amount of carries he has per match is very high and he can go for the full 80ßmin. The other 2 have to prove themselves before first.

GerM

profitius wrote: »

Not that I'm taking it too seriously but POC is easily the number 1 second row. I'd have Gray alongside him.

I'd have to disagree, Profitius. I'd have POC along in the squad but, if the team was selected today and POC was in it, it would be on reputation alone. Gray has been the outstanding lock this year by a distance. Aside from his 6 weeks out with injury which coincided with the 6N, Lawes would be there too. He was superb for Northampton this season and also for England in the autumn. In 2009 only POC and AWJ probably really stood out in the season as the likely starters for at lock. This season Tom Palmer, Bradley Davies, Richie Gray and Courtney Lawes have all been excellent. POC has shown flashes of his former glory but is still on the road back after his injury/illness. It remains to be seen if he can hit the same heights he previously hit with consistency.

I question the amount of "effective carries" he has had in this season, I am well aware that he is used a lot for "turning slow ball into quick", but he hasn't made a yard since the season started in the loose.

His leadership skills at Munster and Ireland are unquestionable, and he is a driving force behind both packs, however he struggled to assert this leadership with the Lions in the recent tour, its not easy to be the boss of strangers, it's completely forgiveable, but it impinges on his leadership as an asset in a Lions Test side.

Comparing his turnover abilities to that of Lawes is only ever going to have one winner, Lawes is sensational at the breakdown, himself and Gray are the two leading lights of the NH in terms of being a "back row/second row".

The game has changed hugely in the past 3/4 seasons, and because Ireland had such gifted players in the 2nd row, we haven't seen any change there whatsoever. Other teams and nations are embracing the change by adding mobile 2nd row players who can compete in all areas of the game, and still be lively in the lineout. I don't think you could question Lawes' or Gray's abilities in the lineout tbh. Gray has played all of two seasons so far, and already looks like the finished package.

The game is progressing with the advent of the 7s game and law interpretations into a game where all 15 players are asked to break tackles, offload and steal ball when possible. POC has never shied away from the ball in open play, but at this stage, he's incredibly easy to read, he has no offloading game, and no passing game, and has had plenty of nightmares with knock ons in crucial positions.

The game that Ireland and Munster have been playing means that POC is absolutely essential, but that won't be the game that the Lions play, because they're going to the SH to beat SH teams with a SH gameplan.

bamboozle

profitius wrote: »

POCs workrate is as good or better than any secondrow in the world. He is a brilliant lineout reader, world class there. He is excellent at turning over ball in rucks. He is a leader and winner and Munster and Ireland are harder to beat with him in the team than out of the team. The amount of carries he has per match is very high and he can go for the full 80ßmin. The other 2 have to prove themselves before first.

the way the game is evolving POC's weaknesses of charging head down into contact and poor basics of passing and offloading are being more and more exposed, excellent in all other facets but he really needs to work on these areas.

corny

The only thing worth predicting is that no one will get it right. 2 years is a long time.

profitius

Would Munster or Ireland feel the loss of Gray or Lawes as much as POC? I doubt it.

Are Lawes or Gray able to match POCs workrate? In high paced matches would Gray or Lawes be able to last the pace? Lawes wasn't great in the final against Leinster and might just look good in the AP. Gray made a few good runs for Scotland and all of a sudden hes now better than POC!

I question the amount of "effective carries" he has had in this season, I am well aware that he is used a lot for "turning slow ball into quick", but he hasn't made a yard since the season started in the loose.

I've seen him make plenty of yards this season. And ever time he takes the ball on it draws in at least 2 defenders. Hes not the best ball carrier in the world but he constant ball carrying is more effective than somebody who makes a few good carries and does little else. Thats great to use as youtube clips.

Down through the years theres been some new kids on the block at 13 who people have talked up as being better than BOD but time proved otherwise. Its up to Courtney "English media hype" Lawes and Ritchie Gray to prove themselves over time to be talked about as being in POCs class.

I'd have POC along in the squad but, if the team was selected today and POC was in it, it would be on reputation alone.

POCs been outstanding since he came back. Walked straight back into the Munster team and made a massive difference. Maybe not back to 100% best but not far off.

irishbucsfan

I would have POC over most 2nd rows in the world of rugby.

I'd absolutely put him in the Lions team ahead of the young lads, but by 2013 I don't know if that would still be the case.

GerM

profitius wrote: »

Would Munster or Ireland feel the loss of Gray or Lawes as much as POC? I doubt it.

Are Lawes or Gray able to match POCs workrate? In high paced matches would Gray or Lawes be able to last the pace? Lawes wasn't great in the final against Leinster and might just look good in the AP. Gray made a few good runs for Scotland and all of a sudden hes now better than POC!

Maybe we're guilty of jumping on the bandwagon a bit in relation to the up and coming locks but they can definitely mix it with the best in terms of work rate. Gray in particular is the full package. He has done a lot more than a few runs. I don't have the stats to hand but in the 6N he was the top tackler in some of the games and top line out operator whilst also carrying a huge amount and offloading wonderfully. He was the player of the tournament for me. His workrate is superb. It's as if someone took a 35 year old Simon Shaw and put a new engine in him. Lawes was excellent in the autumn against the 3N sides and in the knock out stages of the HEC. By the final, it looked like he was just shattered. It's a pity that injury denied him a shot at a full 6N campaign. Himself and Palmer were looking like forming a superb partnership through last summer and the autumn.

I think an important point was the one that Emmet made. The Lions don't play a slow ball game. They play an aggressive, high tempo, mobile game traditionally and Lawes and Gray fit into that perfectly. Lawes is like a three quarter in terms of ground covered and pace and Gray has better handling than any lock I've seen in the northern hemisphere.

We'll just have to see how it pans out. As others have said, it's impossible to select anything at this point but it's the off season now and time for some pointless debate!

Flincher

Deleted User wrote: »

I question the amount of "effective carries" he has had in this season, I am well aware that he is used a lot for "turning slow ball into quick", but he hasn't made a yard since the season started in the loose.

His leadership skills at Munster and Ireland are unquestionable, and he is a driving force behind both packs, however he struggled to assert this leadership with the Lions in the recent tour, its not easy to be the boss of strangers, it's completely forgiveable, but it impinges on his leadership as an asset in a Lions Test side.

Comparing his turnover abilities to that of Lawes is only ever going to have one winner, Lawes is sensational at the breakdown, himself and Gray are the two leading lights of the NH in terms of being a "back row/second row".

The game has changed hugely in the past 3/4 seasons, and because Ireland had such gifted players in the 2nd row, we haven't seen any change there whatsoever. Other teams and nations are embracing the change by adding mobile 2nd row players who can compete in all areas of the game, and still be lively in the lineout. I don't think you could question Lawes' or Gray's abilities in the lineout tbh. Gray has played all of two seasons so far, and already looks like the finished package.

The game is progressing with the advent of the 7s game and law interpretations into a game where all 15 players are asked to break tackles, offload and steal ball when possible. POC has never shied away from the ball in open play, but at this stage, he's incredibly easy to read, he has no offloading game, and no passing game, and has had plenty of nightmares with knock ons in crucial positions.

The game that Ireland and Munster have been playing means that POC is absolutely essential, but that won't be the game that the Lions play, because they're going to the SH to beat SH teams with a SH gameplan.

Where is this coming from? Stephen Jones (the journalist, not the player) was on his back throughout the tour, but I recall reading Martyn Williams saying he was the best captain he played under, which is high praise considering he played under O'Driscoll and Johnson with the Lions.

sock puppet

corny wrote: »

The only thing worth predicting is that no one will get it right. 2 years is a long time.

Exactly. Mike Blair was being touted as a possible Lions captain 6 months before the last tour and ended up not even making the original squad.

Though if I was to guess from this far out I'd say loosehead will be whoever's starting for England and inside centre will be whoever's starting for Wales.

durkadurka

A better question would probably be your imaginary lions xv for 2011.

jacothelad

Deleted User wrote: »

I question the amount of "effective carries" he has had in this season, but he hasn't made a yard since the season started in the loose.

His leadership skills at Munster and Ireland are unquestionable, and he is a driving force behind both packs, however he struggled to assert this leadership with the Lions in the recent tour, its not easy to be the boss of strangers, it's completely forgiveable, but it impinges on his leadership as an asset in a Lions Test side.

Comparing his turnover abilities to that of Lawes is only ever going to have one winner, Lawes is sensational at the breakdown, himself and Gray are the two leading lights of the NH in terms of being a "back row/second row".

The game has changed hugely in the past 3/4 seasons, and because Ireland had such gifted players in the 2nd row, we haven't seen any change there whatsoever. Other teams and nations are embracing the change by adding mobile 2nd row players who can compete in all areas of the game, and still be lively in the lineout. I don't think you could question Lawes' or Gray's abilities in the lineout tbh. Gray has played all of two seasons so far, and already looks like the finished package.

The game is progressing with the advent of the 7s game and law interpretations into a game where all 15 players are asked to break tackles, offload and steal ball when possible. POC has never shied away from the ball in open play, but at this stage, he's incredibly easy to read, he has no offloading game, and no passing game, and has had plenty of nightmares with knock ons in crucial positions.

The game that Ireland and Munster have been playing means that POC is absolutely essential, but that won't be the game that the Lions play, because they're going to the SH to beat SH teams with a SH gameplan.

POC sadly is a very poor ball carrier. He is too slow compared to some young guys like Lawes and Gray, nor can he pass out of the tackle, preferring 99% to go to ground whence everything slows to a standstill. Wanting to be a ball carrier but being a good one are not the same thing. He still is a mighty player though but not as accomplished in rugby skills as the two young guys mentioned. I'd certainly have him, DOC, Tuohy, MOD and Cullen over Palmer though.

bamboozle wrote: »

the way the game is evolving POC's weaknesses of charging head down into contact and poor basics of passing and offloading are being more and more exposed, excellent in all other facets but he really needs to work on these areas.

He is an old dog and if he was ever going to become an all-singing, dancing player it was 10 years ago.

profitius wrote: »

Would Munster or Ireland feel the loss of Gray or Lawes as much as POC? YES

Are Lawes or Gray able to match POCs workrate? YES



Down through the years theres been some new kids on the block at 13 who people have talked up as being better than BOD but time proved otherwise. Its up to Courtney "English media hype" Lawes and Ritchie Gray to prove themselves over time to be talked about as being in POCs class.

I agree with that whole herartedly. They have a lot to do to emulate POC but at the same age they are better, more accomplished, more atheletic than Paul was.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I would have POC over most 2nd rows in the world of rugby.

I'd absolutely put him in the Lions team ahead of the young lads, but by 2013 I don't know if that would still be the case.

Flincher wrote: »

Where is this coming from? Stephen Jones (the journalist, not the player) was on his back throughout the tour, but I recall reading Martyn Williams saying he was the best captain he played under, which is high praise considering he played under O'Driscoll and Johnson with the Lions.

I was going to make the same point. Not only did Nugget say he was the best captain that he had EVER played under but Ian McGeechan also was unstinting in his praise and the admiration for Paul was clear as day when he talked about him while over here last autumn.

jacothelad

Deleted User wrote: »

I question the amount of "effective carries" he has had in this season, but he hasn't made a yard since the season started in the loose.

His leadership skills at Munster and Ireland are unquestionable, and he is a driving force behind both packs, however he struggled to assert this leadership with the Lions in the recent tour, its not easy to be the boss of strangers, it's completely forgiveable, but it impinges on his leadership as an asset in a Lions Test side.

Comparing his turnover abilities to that of Lawes is only ever going to have one winner, Lawes is sensational at the breakdown, himself and Gray are the two leading lights of the NH in terms of being a "back row/second row".

The game has changed hugely in the past 3/4 seasons, and because Ireland had such gifted players in the 2nd row, we haven't seen any change there whatsoever. Other teams and nations are embracing the change by adding mobile 2nd row players who can compete in all areas of the game, and still be lively in the lineout. I don't think you could question Lawes' or Gray's abilities in the lineout tbh. Gray has played all of two seasons so far, and already looks like the finished package.

The game is progressing with the advent of the 7s game and law interpretations into a game where all 15 players are asked to break tackles, offload and steal ball when possible. POC has never shied away from the ball in open play, but at this stage, he's incredibly easy to read, he has no offloading game, and no passing game, and has had plenty of nightmares with knock ons in crucial positions.

The game that Ireland and Munster have been playing means that POC is absolutely essential, but that won't be the game that the Lions play, because they're going to the SH to beat SH teams with a SH gameplan.

POC sadly is a very poor ball carrier. He is too slow compared to some young guys like Lawes and Gray, nor can he pass out of the tackle, preferring 99% to go to ground whence everything slows to a standstill. Wanting to be a ball carrier but being a good one are not the same thing. He still is a mighty player though but not as accomplished in rugby skills as the two young guys mentioned. I'd certainly have him, DOC, Tuohy, MOD and Cullen over Palmer though.

bamboozle wrote: »

the way the game is evolving POC's weaknesses of charging head down into contact and poor basics of passing and offloading are being more and more exposed, excellent in all other facets but he really needs to work on these areas.

He is an old dog and if he was ever going to become an all-singing, dancing player it was 10 years ago.

profitius wrote: »

Would Munster or Ireland feel the loss of Gray or Lawes as much as POC? YES

Are Lawes or Gray able to match POCs workrate? YES



Down through the years theres been some new kids on the block at 13 who people have talked up as being better than BOD but time proved otherwise. Its up to Courtney "English media hype" Lawes and Ritchie Gray to prove themselves over time to be talked about as being in POCs class.

I agree with that whole heartedly. They have a lot to do to emulate POC but at the same age they are possibly better, more accomplished, more athletic than was Paul.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I would have POC over most 2nd rows in the world of rugby.

I'd absolutely put him in the Lions team ahead of the young lads, but by 2013 I don't know if that would still be the case.

Flincher wrote: »

Where is this coming from? Stephen Jones (the journalist, not the player) was on his back throughout the tour, but I recall reading Martyn Williams saying he was the best captain he played under, which is high praise considering he played under O'Driscoll and Johnson with the Lions.

I was going to make the same point. Not only did Nugget say he was the best captain that he had EVER played under but Ian McGeechan also was unstinting in his praise and the admiration for Paul was clear as day when he talked about him while over here last autumn.

pajunior

Very early but sure it's for the craic.

Is everyone in agreement about Ashton on the wing?

At the moment I would have Bowe ahead of him, are people assuming that in two years Ashton will be that much better?

rockman15

profitius wrote: »

Would Munster or Ireland feel the loss of Gray or Lawes as much as POC? I doubt it.

Are Lawes or Gray able to match POCs workrate? In high paced matches would Gray or Lawes be able to last the pace? Lawes wasn't great in the final against Leinster and might just look good in the AP. Gray made a few good runs for Scotland and all of a sudden hes now better than POC!



I've seen him make plenty of yards this season. And ever time he takes the ball on it draws in at least 2 defenders. Hes not the best ball carrier in the world but he constant ball carrying is more effective than somebody who makes a few good carries and does little else. Thats great to use as youtube clips.

Down through the years theres been some new kids on the block at 13 who people have talked up as being better than BOD but time proved otherwise. Its up to Courtney "English media hype" Lawes and Ritchie Gray to prove themselves over time to be talked about as being in POCs class.



POCs been outstanding since he came back. Walked straight back into the Munster team and made a massive difference. Maybe not back to 100% best but not far off.

This has been discusses at length over in the Ireland team thread and the Toner thread.

But to surmise for the others: The general consensus is that the NH style of smash up the middle lock is not going to be employed after the WC. I and others, sepculate that we will see more dynamic ball carrying from locks with very little of this sideways nonsense that seems to be so prolific in the ML and aviva. Players like Lawes and Grey are more dynamic than POC, Cullen, AWJ, Kellock, R.Jones's of this world. We will see more offloads and better handling skills in general from locks during the WC and will see them coming onto balls at speed more often. Its a trend already starting in the SXV and we should take note

PhatPiggins

Any realistic thoughts on who will be the coach? It won't be non British or Irish again after the Graham Henry fiasco but are there any stand outs. I'd like Andy Robinson but its hard to predict whether he'll be still an international coach in 2013. Not McGeechan though, that ship has sailed.

jacothelad

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Any realistic thoughts on who will be the coach? It won't be non British or Irish again after the Graham Henry fiasco but are there any stand outs. I'd like Andy Robinson but its hard to predict whether he'll be still an international coach in 2013. Not McGeechan though, that ship has sailed.

I'm not sure that Gatland won't get a lot of backing from the likes of Jones and other English pseudo rugby journalists.

pajunior

pajunior wrote: »

Very early but sure it's for the craic.

Is everyone in agreement about Ashton on the wing?

At the moment I would have Bowe ahead of him, are people assuming that in two years Ashton will be that much better?

Bowe a contender of course, if Lions ship sailed tomorrow, Ashton is on the wing though. Simple as

profitius

Mike McGurn has said POC is the best athlete he has ever coached so I wouldn't be too quick to say Lawes and Gray are up at his level. McGurn has coached rugby league as well as GAA and rugby union including Ireland for years.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mikemcgurn/9612497/Paul_OConnell_from_junior_swimmer_to_Lions_rugby_captain/

GerM

jacothelad wrote: »

I'm not sure that Gatland won't get a lot of backing from the likes of Jones and other English pseudo rugby journalists.

Gatland has a clause in his Welsh contract allowing him 5 months off to coach the Lions if offered. The fact that he was forwards coach on the last tour will strengthen his position. I think the coaching gig will be heavily based upon the WC and 2012 6N. If Gatland can get some decent results there, he'll be in pole position. I think MJ will be in with a shout but I see him as a coach in the backroom team. DK's lack of involvement outside of Ireland or experience with the players involved will count against him. With that said, if any team from the home nations makes a big run in the WC, their coach will immediately be strongly linked with the job.

Robinson having coached England and Scotland will surely be a forerunner no?

Quint2010

Deleted User wrote: »

Robinson having coached England and Scotland will surely be a forerunner no?

Sorry but is Robinson that good? England really regressed under him and Scotland havent really progessed that much? Much depends on how the WC goes. Would not be surprised if Johnson got the job or if Ireland perform-Uncle Deccie

GerM

Quint2010 wrote: »

Sorry but is Robinson that good? England really regressed under him and Scotland havent really progessed that much? Much depends on how the WC goes. Would not be surprised if Johnson got the job or if Ireland perform-Uncle Deccie

His job with England was the ultimate poisoned chalice. No team could perform to any decent level with the retirements of half his side. Johnson, Dallalglio, Greenwood, Woodman, Back, Hill all quit and he never had Wilkinson for one single game during his 2 years.

He brought a HEC to Bath and was a major factor in England's WC winning side. He also turned around Edinburgh and has done a decent job in Scotland. I'd have to agree with Emmet, he'll be in the mix for the job. Unfortunately, I think Scotland's inevitable lack of big success will count against him. There won't be any media clamour for his appointment unlike the other home nations coaches.

jacothelad

GerM wrote: »

His job with England was the ultimate poisoned chalice. No team could perform to any decent level with the retirements of half his side. Johnson, Dallalglio, Greenwood, Woodman, Back, Hill all quit and he never had Wilkinson for one single game during his 2 years.

He brought a HEC to Bath and was a major factor in England's WC winning side. He also turned around Edinburgh and has done a decent job in Scotland. I'd have to agree with Emmet, he'll be in the mix for the job. Unfortunately, I think Scotland's inevitable lack of big success will count against him. There won't be any media clamour for his appointment unlike the other home nations coaches.

I'm not sure Ger that again the likes of Jones, Ackford, Moore and the Sky team won't talk him up along with Gatland. I must admit to having a preference for Geech again alongside Kidney and who knows by then maybe Schmidt might be rewarded if he continues to impress as he has done.

mfceiling

durkadurka wrote: »

As soon as I saw Henson under Stephen jones list I stopped reading.

I logged in just to thank this post.

I wonder sometimes if stephen jones even watches rugby at all?

whysomoody

Ferris?

CIARAN_BOYLE

whysomoody wrote: »

Ferris?

no one is betting that he will be fit or that he won't have retired due to injury by then

irishbucsfan

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

no one is betting that he will be fit or that he won't have retired due to injury by then

Not only that, but I wouldn't select Ferris ahead of O'Brien and O'Brien plays his best rugby on the blindside.

artvandelay48

jacothelad wrote: »

I must admit to having a preference for Geech again alongside Kidney and who knows by then maybe Schmidt might be rewarded if he continues to impress as he has done.

I think picking the starting xv this far off is a fool's errand. But, like mentioned earlier, it is easier to predict the coach, and possibly even the captain.

Geech - the lions need a new voice.
Kidney - it depends on how Ireland do at the WC. However, the Lions might want to temper the growing irishness of the lions vis-a-vis the numbers selected in 2009. It could count against him.
Gatland - I think he'll only get it if Wales do really well at the WC. He has pissed a lot of people off.
Robinson - too limited and tainted by his time at England. Harsh but there you go.
Johnson - this is a real possibility. It would be a sentimental choice to have the last winning captain as the coach. He would have the personality to bring the squad together but would he have the vision to get the best out of the team?

Schmidt - depending on how Leinster do next year, Schmidt could be in the mix. He has been written up a lot about how he got the team playing his high tempo off-loading game, one that the lions would love to play as well. If Leinster can repeat as HEC champs, he could be a real dark horse.


I think we can start reading the tea leaves for Lions captain as well. Its never going to go to a bolter so the captain must be a senior player of his respective team and be absolutely sure of his place in the starting XV. If he's not currently the national captain, he must be considered as being captain material. Judged by this criteria, I don't think you can look beyond Heaslip. He's being groomed for the irish captaincy and has the personality to lead the team. He's also one of a very few names you can put on the teamsheet right now.