'09 Avensis- Blown head gasket

Dutchie

One of my employees has a '09 Avensis D4D with 140k on the clock. The head gasket is gone and Toyota Ireland will not cover it under warranty.

Is this a common occurrence with diesel Avensis' ?

We have BM's, VW's, Citroen's and Audi's in our fleet and have never experienced a blown head gasket.


thanks.

godtabh

that is a lot of mileage in 2 years!

Have you checked your warranty and what it covers?

Mr Benevolent

Whoa, never heard of a diesel with a blown HG. Was it serviced correctly?

Dutchie

Full main dealer service history. I've never had any of my fleet blow a head gasket but I did hear it's not uncommon in Toyota diesels.

Confab

Confab wrote: »

Whoa, never heard of a diesel with a blown HG. Was it serviced correctly?

It's certainly not that uncommon, anything that's watercooled can suffer HG failure.

Padraig Mor

Is the warranty up? I presume it was a 2yr unlimited mileage?

Zubeneschamali

Dutchie wrote: »

Full main dealer service history. I've never had any of my fleet blow a head gasket but I did hear it's not uncommon in Toyota diesels.

"Toyota Does not have an official warranty extension in place for head gaskets. However, as a responsible manufacturer, and to assist our customers we may, subject to appropriate diagnosis, consider covering the repairs as a result of head gasket failure as long as the vehicle is less than 5 years old and has covered less than 99,419 miles (which ever comes sooner.)"

But that's in the UK.

knifey_spoonie

Tell him to go to his dealer, if he has a full service history and that kind of mileage he should have a good relationship with the service department. He should see some sort of goodwill applied.

-Corkie-

RoverJames wrote: »

It's certainly not that uncommon, anything that's watercooled can suffer HG failure.

The Lexus 220D suffered a lot of head gasket failure so maybe its related.

colm_mcm

Warranty in Ireland is 3yrs/100000km, whichever comes first.

Padraig Mor

colm_mcm wrote: »

Warranty in Ireland is 3yrs/100000km, whichever comes first.

But doesn't european law require first two years to be unlimited mileage?

Dutchie

We've gone to our main dealer and also Toyota Ireland. They (Toyota Ireland) have shown us absolutely no good will towards the problem.

The car is still being driven for business purposes whilst I try to get a solution.

The mileage is higher than normal (reps's car) but the car is still only 28 months old.

This will be the first and last Toyota I will ever buy for my fleet

"The best built cars in the world" :rolleyes:

busman

Dutchie wrote: »

One of my employees has a '09 Avensis D4D with 140k on the clock. The head gasket is gone and Toyota Ireland will not cover it under warranty.

Is this a common occurrence with diesel Avensis' ?

We have BM's, VW's, Citroen's and Audi's in our fleet and have never experienced a blown head gasket.


thanks.

If he buy it new from the dealer would normal consumer law not apply?
i.e. he could argue that a head gasket should last longer than 2 years/14O Km.

-Corkie-

Dutchie wrote: »

We've gone to our main dealer and also Toyota Ireland. They (Toyota Ireland) have shown us absolutely no good will towards the problem.

The car is still being driven for business purposes whilst I try to get a solution.

The mileage is higher than normal (reps's car) but the car is still only 28 months old.

This will be the first and last Toyota I will ever buy for my fleet

"The best built cars in the world" :rolleyes:

You should ask R.O.R that posts here. He works for a fleet company and might be able to give you better info.

R.O.R

-Corkie- wrote: »

You should ask R.O.R that posts here. He works for a fleet company and might be able to give you better info.

Thanks, but knifey_spoonie would be the expert on this one.

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

Tell him to go to his dealer, if he has a full service history and that kind of mileage he should have a good relationship with the service department. He should see some sort of goodwill applied.

Just had a look at the 09 Avensi we have on fleet, and there aren't issues with any of them, but the highest mileage is around 116,000km. All I can say is that out Toyota dealer has been very accomodating, and succesful with getting goodwill from Toyota Ireland with any engine issues we've had on older cars.

Bogger77

Dutchie wrote: »

The car is still being driven for business purposes whilst I try to get a solution.

One of your reps is driving a car with a known HG problem, won't that just cause more damage (warping etc)?

MugMugs

Dutchie wrote: »

One of my employees has a '09 Avensis D4D with 140k on the clock. The head gasket is gone and Toyota Ireland will not cover it under warranty.

Is this a common occurrence with diesel Avensis' ?

We have BM's, VW's, Citroen's and Audi's in our fleet and have never experienced a blown head gasket.


thanks.

Is this a 2.0 or 2.2 out of interest ?

Nissan doctor

As has been said, toyota UK are recognising this problem and issueing notices for good will repairs when failure happens so I'd get as much of this info as possible from Toyota UK, combine with a solicitors letter and I recon you'd get sorted then.

Also, get in contact with Lexus Ireland, as I've heard they are covering, at least partially, the IS220d HG failures.

-Chris-

Bogger77 wrote: »

One of your reps is driving a car with a known HG problem, won't that just cause more damage (warping etc)?

I'd worry about this too tbh.

Toyota may turn around and say "ok, we'll cover it after all", but if your rep has exacerbated the damage in the meantime then they'll have every right to wash their hands of it.

Dutchie

Got the Avensis back from a Toyota main dealer on monday.

New head, pistons, liners, block, water-pump etc etc, 31 hours labour!!

Damage €7,800:eek:

The dealer was superb from start to finish. He negotiated over 90% of the cost of the work to be covered by Toyota Ireland.

I will definitely be buying any new vehicles in future from this garage.

unkel

So it still cost nearly €800? That's disgraceful in a 2 year old car that's covered by warranty.

Or do I get the feeling the owner didn't quite stick to the maintenance schedule?

ottostreet

Holy jaysus....modern diesels eh?

Compton

ottostreet wrote: »

Holy jaysus....modern diesels eh?

its done 140k... that is quite a lot.

Leonard Hofstadter

shblob wrote: »

its done 140k... that is quite a lot.

140k km is not what I would call high mileage, a lot in two years yes, but I would expect an engine that is properly looked after to last at least 300k km, and given Toyota's reputation, it should be capable of 400k km (probably a bit too much to ask for given the complexity of modern diesels though).

Padraig Mor

unkel wrote: »

So it still cost nearly €800? That's disgraceful in a 2 year old car that's covered by warranty.

Or do I get the feeling the owner didn't quite stick to the maintenance schedule?

Thik it was out of warranty IIRC.

pajero12

unkel wrote: »

So it still cost nearly €800? That's disgraceful in a 2 year old car that's covered by warranty.

Or do I get the feeling the owner didn't quite stick to the maintenance schedule?

But it needed practically a new engine..So the head gasket problems were only the start of it!

unkel

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Thik it was out of warranty IIRC.

Out of warranty because it went over 100k kilometers. Which is only 62k miles. We haven't heard back about my question if the owner stuck to the maintenance schedule. If he did, I feel Toyota should have coughed up in full.

I Was VB

Taxi driver i know is having the exact same trouble with his D4D Avensis, cost to fix in the €6K figure his is a 07, not the 1st i've heard of this trouble and i have a feeling it wont be the last.

unkel

I Was VB wrote: »

Taxi driver i know is having the exact same trouble with his D4D Avensis, cost to fix in the €6K figure his is a 07, not the 1st i've heard of this trouble and i have a feeling it wont be the last.

Is that €6k in a Toyota main $tealer? If so, how much in an indy? Shocking repair figures tbh anyway for a nearly new car.

What happened to the legend superior Toyota Ireland customer service where they barely even mentioned they replaced an entire engine outside of warranty, free of charge?

Plug

shblob wrote: »

its done 140k... that is quite a lot.

Thats nothing really. My father has 420K on his 01 Golf and still no signs of it giving up yet. Thats fairly bad for a new Toyota and it seems its not a rare problem.

Zubeneschamali

unkel wrote: »

Or do I get the feeling the owner didn't quite stick to the maintenance schedule?

140K in two years would be, what, an oil service every 4 months?

Easy to miss one when you're racking up those miles.

Padraig Mor

unkel wrote: »

Out of warranty because it went over 100k kilometers. Which is only 62k miles. We haven't heard back about my question if the owner stuck to the maintenance schedule. If he did, I feel Toyota should have coughed up in full.

No, think it was over time IIRC. Anyway, I think all manufacturers are required to offer 2 yrs no mileage limit warranty across the EU.

Plug

Plug wrote: »

it seems its not a rare problem.

Shocking repairs on such low mileage indeed.
Any evidence to support the above Plug?

cadaliac

Tbh, 140k on a diesel is nothing. Whats that, 87,000 miles?
Now, the way I look at it, if the rep owned the car, they might very well skip service intervals to save money.
If the car was a fleet car - IIRC it was and the servicing was free - the service intervals should have been met, within reason.
Maybe the service intervals were not met (this question has yet to be answered).
Either way, @ that age with high mileage, there is no way a HG should fail.
I've owned diesel cars (peugeots) that went on to over 200k miles with no engine issues like that - albeit a lot less complicated engines but both were turbo diesels. One was a GRD Turbo and the last one was a Hdi (247k miles, and still in operation I believe).

Leonard Hofstadter

Padraig Mor wrote: »

No, think it was over time IIRC. Anyway, I think all manufacturers are required to offer 2 yrs no mileage limit warranty across the EU.

+1 - I'm pretty sure it is an EU requirement that for the first two years, there is no mileage limit. After that, the manufacturer is free to have whatever restrictions they wish.

Bogger77

unkel wrote: »

So it still cost nearly €800? That's disgraceful in a 2 year old car that's covered by warranty.

Or do I get the feeling the owner didn't quite stick to the maintenance schedule?

well, I'd reckon driving around after Toyota dealer had said there's a blown head gasket, probably didn't help their cause. A hg failure when caught in time, really should have been just gasket, water pump (change it while ya can), and maybe a skimmed block.

In this case, it sounds like pretty much everything, short of the cam shafts, was replaced. That doesn't sound like a simple HG failure, but a HG issue, added with a lack of oil issue?
Or maybe the water and oil mix being used as lubrication after the HG failed, wasn't as good as oil on it's own for lubricating the moving parts!!

I'm surprised even the 90% was covered for this, the garage must have really pulled in favors to get that covered. Car with known issue driven for about 1300k/week, even after diagnosis of a major failure in coolant and lubrication systems, it's possible the garage + toyota are pitching for more fleet sales, with such "goodwill" to the customer

Leonard Hofstadter

Bogger77 wrote: »

well, I'd reckon driving around after Toyota dealer had said there's a blown head gasket, probably didn't help their cause. A hg failure when caught in time, really should have been just gasket, water pump (change it while ya can), and maybe a skimmed block.

In this case, it sounds like pretty much everything, short of the cam shafts, was replaced. That doesn't sound like a simple HG failure, but a HG issue, added with a lack of oil issue?
Or maybe the water and oil mix being used as lubrication after the HG failed, wasn't as good as oil on it's own for lubricating the moving parts!!

I'm surprised even the 90% was covered for this, the garage must have really pulled in favors to get that covered. Car with known issue driven for about 1300k/week, even after diagnosis of a major failure in coolant and lubrication systems, it's possible the garage + toyota are pitching for more fleet sales, with such "goodwill" to the customer

Yeah, driving around with HG failure is not exactly what you would call the wisest course of action.

If that is the case, then I must say that Toyota went out of their way to look after their customer - and I am not surprised to hear that they did - their aftersales service is so much better than everyone else - is it any wonder that some Toyota owners take their cars to the main dealer even when the car is over ten years old for a service?

PADRAIC.M

Yeah once you stick to service intervals and use genuine parts Toyota will always do something for you- im speaking from experience, because I'm up toy neck in headgaskets and others issues with AD engine at the moment ;-p

dmcar02

Apparently the 2.2 D4D is notorious for HGF, the T180 seems to have terrible problems, same engine as IS220D as someone mentioned before.

Glad it was sorted though. .

Wish I could say the same about the headlghts in my Avensis, must have replaced them about 3 times at this stage.

Plug

Deleted User wrote: »

Shocking repairs on such low mileage indeed.
Any evidence to support the above Plug?

I was going by I Was VB post. I've also heard of it happening myself from a lad in work. I suppose a call in and see some Toyota mechanics would be good as they know there stuff with them engines.

colenz

What in the engine design or parts is causing it? Have they changed anything to prevent it happening again? Or are they just replacing the damage parts and not doing anything to sort the issue causing it and have it happens again at over 100,000kms?

biko

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