building my house

Corklady22

Hello everyone, ok so here is my situation, me and my boyfriend want to start our house, I will be getting a 1 acre site from my parents. but our first step is to get planning permission. I have a few questions.

1. In The square footage for a dormer is the upstairs included? is the garage included? We are planning to do it direct labour,

2. I have relations that are blocklayers, electricians, carpenters and plumbers and doing alot of the restourselves.We want the house to be about 2000sq ft.What could we expect to spend in total? bear in mind we are not going to finish all the house at once we are going to just do the main rooms for a start.:rolleyes:

3. I wonder will we have any hope of getting a mortgage in 2years time? does a site worth approx €30,000 do as a deposit for the mortgage or would we want to have savings too?

4. Would we want to see if we can get a mortgage before we go for planning?

5. we were also thinking of setting up a joint account for putting all the money for the house into it, would this be a good idea?

6. Is it true that once we get planning permission we have 5 years to start building?

7. When we get planning permission the council sends out a bill for services, what can we expect this to be?

8. how much will we have to spend just to get plans drawn up and submit application???

Thank you in advance for all your replys all advice is welcome really need some help??????????????:eek::rolleyes::eek::rolleyes::D

muffler

Corklady22 I have edited your post in order to break it down into individual questions. Some people here may be in a position to answer some but perhaps not all of the questions so its better for everyone to have them numbered.

BryanF

1. yes,yes. Direct labour: will you project manage or employing someone? ask yourself this carefully...
2. labour is a good % of the cost of building, if you need costs for the bank i would recommend you take the following steps: get arch to design, then submit (planning permission)PP, then prepare tender Dwgs & spec, pass these to a quantity surveyor(QS) and work through the details of who's saving you on labour costs with QS. BTW you need to carefully plan your time line months in advance to get your friends /relations involved on time! when you need them! lots of people will promise you the moon, but getting the guys on site, on time may be another matter
3. this may depend on the lending institution you go to, and your credit history, best to have savings though
4. you may as well go and have a chat with your bank manager (it will cost you nothing), but you'll get no guarantees until you get PP, then cost it properly and then formally apply for a mortgage
5. ask your Bank manager
6. 5 years to have roof on generally, but there are dispensations especially in the current climate
7. provision of services Cork coco contribution fees €76.19per m2 (you said circa 200m2) (-1 40m2 exemption) = €12,191 this rate goes up bi-annually
8. I'm compromised here, IMHO dont just get a price for PP get a price for PP, tender & construction drawings + price for stage payments (required by your bank) - you may want to consider a project management service also

cork lady, often times to qualify to live in a rural location you may need to prove a housing need. speak to architect/planning consultant about these requirements

rural_red

Hi Corklady22

In reply to your queries;


1. Yes and 'it depends'. Are you using this area figure for pricing purposes? If you are then you will need to consider that the garage will be built to a lower specification. Since you are going direct labour, you may be using this area figure for planning purposes then it depends on whether the garage will be attached. You will need to frame your question here in its context.

2. Simply don't know. In reality it would be best to follow BryanF advice on using a QS or obtaining general contractor prices directly.

Don't price based on Planning Drawings as these take no account of your specification. Also get a BER done during design so that you at least have that part narrowed down. You are obviously hoping for a saving on price via your using family for labour and project managing yourself.

BUT bear in mind that where a builder charges more than direct labour he is covering the cost of his project management (PM) and his liabilities. If you are use direct labour, you are the project manager (unless you employ one) and you must cover costs of site safety and insurances etc. In the current market, your builder will work out better value...he has more experience and him being on the site, allows you to work and make money. he will tend not to include much in the way of profit nowadays. You will not be able to rely on a supervising engineer or architect to manage the project. Generally they are limited to 6-8 visits unless you actually ask them to project manage it (this would be the halfway choice between you as PM and the builder as PM).

3. In Ireland noone knows is the simple answer. Without knowing your personal position definitely don't know. I personally can't see a 1 acre greenfield site (agircultural land) being worth €30,000 unless it has planning permission on it already (with no occupancy clause) and the banks may take the same view. They are cash poor at the moment and would probably prefer a cash deposit rather than another landbank. However you are alluding to the fact that you will have no contingency fund in place for the build...I would save even if its only for a contingency fund!!

4. Yes

5. This is a financial question and I could only give you a personal answer which would be that your relationship with your boyfriend needs to be protected, so the method of drawdowns will be important - a co-signed chequebook would be a start.

6. You have 5 years to get to wallplate level (the top of the wall). BryanF is right in that they are more relaxed now but I wouldn't depend on that. Take a look at what is happening in Kerry -http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0524/1224297637211.html

7. It depends on the County Council and BryanF is more in tune with that area. In some Counties contributions can be waived where the site already provides some of its own services such as a well or effluent treatment system.

8. This depends on the quality of the design and drawings and service offered. For planning only the fee may be from 500 to 5000.

You seem to have your mind fixed on a dormer but the planning department may have a different view. You could get a guy to draw up an unremarkable dormer for cheap and throw it into the planning department only for them to ask for a redesign that he will charge you for OR you could get a guy to design to suit the site and your brief, meet with the planner and agree on the design and have the thing 90% sure before you submit for planning.

I would advise that cost should not be the leading factor here (it is unquestionably a fector) as it is likely the one and only time you get this house designed and where you might spend 10,000 on a kitchen and have it replaced in 10 years, you could spend 1,500 on a poor design and have to sit in it for 60 years. BryanF's advice is strong here also considering your build route.

BryanF's advice on local need is also pertinent and related to the last point. You need to carry out some measure of pre-planning before you get going.

ypvs

im a qs and in answer to cost of build (basic less kitchen and sanitary ware) i would say there is potential to build for 60 euro sq ft. upwards from there.

BryanF

ypvs wrote: »

im a qs and in answer to cost of build (basic less kitchen and sanitary ware) i would say there is potential to build for 60 euro sq ft. upwards from there.

Ypus,
can you expand a little on this, would you be able to give a brief break down of what's included in the 60€ per sqft sum. I guess this would be for just scraping through building regulations? (I'm genuinely interested to know your opinion)

mmc2010

I agree with ypvs. I recently got quoted 145k for a 2500 ft hse. Thats with future proofed windows, pumped insulation and plasterboard on the external walls with a reputable local builder. Haven't gotten the full breakdown of the quote yet.

sinnerboy

BryanF wrote: »

(I'm genuinely interested to know your opinion)

And I'm genuinely interested in completed build costs. Final account figures not Tender figures.



( Do I hear tales of "extras" over the horizon.....)

BryanF

sinnerboy wrote: »

And I'm genuinely interested in completed build costs. Final account figures not Tender figures.



( Do I hear tales of "extras" over the horizon.....)

sinnerboy, I'm politely trying to work that out before forming conclusions

BryanF

mmc2010 wrote: »

I agree with ypvs. I recently got quoted 145k for a 2500 ft hse. Thats with future proofed windows, pumped insulation and plasterboard on the external walls with a reputable local builder. Haven't gotten the full breakdown of the quote yet.

what air-tightness value have you agreed with your builder and what BER rating are you aiming for? give us something tangible that we can compare like with like

what exactly are "future proofed windows"? 'do they just about meet building regs at the moment?, but when you realise there leaving all your heat out, you can upgrade them to better ones, of course the manufacture will definitely guarantee this process'

sas

BryanF wrote: »

what exactly are "future proofed windows"? [/IMG]

I'm assuming they are the mj product of the same name i.e. it's a model name rather than a commitment on future performance;)

mmc2010

Hi folks, like I said above, I haven't gone through the quote in detail with the builder yet so this is just a first off provisional figure. I asked him for a high B energy rating. I'm not saying we're going to go with this quote and with regard to the comment on extras....you'd be looking at alot of extras to account for the extra 50k I was expecting to pay. I'm only saying that these quotes are out there with reputable builders.

sas

mmc2010 wrote: »

I'm only saying that these quotes are out there with reputable builders.

I ask this with the greated respect, Reputable according to who? Your architect\engineer is recommending them or the local concensus?

There are lots of builders in my locality that are very reputable. I've seen samples of their work and I wouldn't be using them.

You will hear "He was a great builder, it was a shocking winter and he still got us in from start to finish in 6 months". At the very least this could suggest that foundations were poured in "too cold" weather and you'll be looking at structural problems down the line.

You understand my point.

mmc2010

I would use local reputation as a generally sound source of opinion. Friends and family who used this builder in the past said he was very good. Obviously I would check this out further, I wouldn't jeopardise the biggest investment of my life on heresay. I met him, I was impressed with him but as I said earlier, this was his initial quote and I haven't gone through it in great details. Whereas my engineer suggested somebody else who 'gave him a good price'. I would trust people who live in a builder's house for a number of years rather than an engineer who signs off on a builder's work after a quick scan....(no disrespect to any engineers!)
Just because its not at the higher end of the scale price wise doesn't mean its bad!

BryanF

mmc2010 wrote: »

. I asked him for a high B energy rating. .

you need to be a lot more specific with your specification than this. you did give him detailed drawings and a spec?, not just planning drawings! also 'a high B' means you'll just about meet current Building regs

mmc2010

Hi BryanF, I totally agree with you that a more detailed spec is required and I only received initial quotes from him. I was also very (pleasantly) surprised and due to my risk averse and suspicious nature, will be doing alot more research before making any decision! I was only agreeing with ypvs' comment that these prices are available.

Poor Uncle Tom

Just a word of caution on the very low prices, there is a point below which all parties become loosers, where the contractor/subbie is loosing out on long hours for little or no wage and where the customer is loosing out because they are being presented with a poor quality product which may be only barely fit for purpose. It's a fine line which is easily crossed.

martinn123

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Just a word of caution on the very low prices, there is a point below which all parties become loosers, where the contractor/subbie is loosing out on long hours for little or no wage and where the customer is loosing out because they are being presented with a poor quality product which may be only barely fit for purpose. It's a fine line which is easily crossed.

Its a fine line that has been well and truly crossed, since we went into recession.........With so little work available, most contractors are quoting ''survival rates''....In fact some quotes I have seen recently cannot be completed without serious quality issues........but the client has become so quote conscious and seeking lower and lower ''recession pricing'' something has to give.A lot of posters in this Forum strive for better quality builds, which is good, but the average home-builder or extender wants the cheapest quote.

BryanF

this is where the cheap quick solutions will get home owners.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056292270
..right back to the start...

mmc2010

hi guys, I agree and I made it clear from the start that I wanted a good quality home and certainly didn't make an issue of price. On our initial meeting I did ask the question what was the average price per sq ft these days. The builder in question responded saying that he had heard of prices as low as 55e per sq ft but that he certainly wouldn't be able to do it for that. Our house is very straightforward though, we weren't looking for anything overly complicated- our heating system etc was standard and I think that is what brought down the cost. Maybe we go further down the line though, things might change and our requirements may cause the costs to increase. As an initial quote though, from this particular builder, I was very happy.

martinn123

BryanF wrote: »

this is where the cheap quick solutions will get home owners.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056292270
..right back to the start...

Exactly.........regulars here will know the usual routine. Poster asks how much per Sqft to build this....various posts on quality issues.....uvalues, BER etc and a figure is suggested.........then we get the post....well I did it for 1/2 that.......using two Polish workers, at 85E a day etc......( don't mention cash, Muffler might be watching )Till we recover our sense of value, and look for best product, rather than cheapest price, quality is out the window.
mmc2010 if you are happy with the initial quote, stick with it. My comments were in reply to PUT

Slig

Just to throw in my 2 cents, I recently designed and submitted planning for a 210SqM dormer house for a retired Engineer. The work is now substantially complete and although there were several alterations to the construction drawings the work was done for €50 per sq ft.

The bit that some people may wish to ignore is that he built the house direct labour, the work was to builders finish and he provided many of the fixtures such as white goods, and rads/fireplaces himself outside the budget. The windows, although high spec timber, were bought secondhand as a joblot for a fraction of their original cost. He also spent many days chipping concrete off old blocks so that they could be reused and washing slates that had come secondhand from an auction. As a retired engineer he only used trades that he had experience working with in the past and gave him a fair price and he stuck rigidly to my specs for any areas that he wasnt sure about such as insulation and weatherproofing.

The best advice I can give is budget for circa €80 - €100 per SqFt and tender the work out to several builders. Hiring professionals such as a Quantity Surveyor and engineer to oversee the build should not only keep you on budget but maybe save you money over the course of the works

martinn123

Hi Slig50 Sqft, plus what sounds like a lot of time and effort from your retired engineer. good price

muffler

martinn123 wrote: »

( don't mention cash, Muffler might be watching )

Might be watching...pffft.

"Is watching" is what you should have said