ATH Knockout Round1: SlickRic vs Danger Dave

Bounty Hunter

Alright so we've had 2 great openers most recently with thebostoncrab joining teamshadowclan and Cactus Col in the quater finals. Now to decide the 4th quaterfinalist as Danger Dave takes on Slickric.

Simplified version of the rules:

I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within a given time limit (before the next match is scheduled to begin), take care while making your responses however as the other contestant can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

*you can only counter an arguement two times so make sure your point is worth making. If someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them.

*You can use the same answer as your opponent if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

see the OP of the main thread for further details, the 1st match's thread or if any are needed or check out last years competition.

Q3: Pitch to McMahon

Vince has given you the opportunity to pitch one idea to him, the catch being it has to be an idea to either revitilise the WWE's tag team division or the now Kharma-less Diva's division. What would your idea be? how would you see it playing out? and why would the idea your pitching be better for Vince to run with than your opponents?

good luck.
__________________

Danger_dave1

Q3: Pitch to McMahon

Vince has given you the opportunity to pitch one idea to him, the catch being it has to be an idea to either revitilise the WWE's tag team division or the now Kharma-less Diva's division. What would your idea be? how would you see it playing out? and why would the idea your pitching be better for Vince to run with than your opponents?


Hello Sports fans !

Now i will go for the Revitalization of Kharma-less women's division. First what i need to pitch to Vince is why the division has gone flat. Consider them wrestlers again with them being objects to look at second. In the recent past the Womens division was at its strongest when they had wrestling matches.

Molly Holly, Trish stratus , Lita, Ivory , Jazz.

So a mixture of new booking and new recruitment is the key. Booking more focus on the matches being wrestling matches, technical moves , high intensity finishes. If certain diva's on the roster need to improve to get up to scratch , send them to FCW for a month or two.

Recruitment: College athletes. Thats right ! Basketball players , track and field star's etc, Get these women's trained up and give the women's division some air time.

The angle, A "New "Breed" of Diva Stronger, athletic , beautiful and dangerous. Have them feud with the established Diva's rip the division a new one, make the current women know the current level is not good enough.

After the initial surge and winning of the title Bire Bella , have the new breed turn on each other. With the "New Breed" always helping each other out by have one manager each at the ring, after they start winning, The GM starts pitching them against each other, tension's rise, When one of the new breed is up against one of the older diva's the new breed's manager cost's her ally the match.

After a few more losses, the new breed start to turn on each other anarchy ensues leaving Vince to pick the best of the "New Breed" and the best of the old diva's who have performed to start a new diva division with the main focus on wrestling.

The old diva's that cant cut it are given "WWE has come to terms on the release of "insert Name" as of today. We wish " insert name" the best in all future endeavors.

Any of the "New Breed" that are not to popular get the same treatment.

Other Changes, change the belt to a world championship belt as a opposed to the current diva belt.

Now at this point you have excellent performers that are good on the eye

SlickRic

i would re-vamp the Tag Division; no contest.

i would sell to Vince the intrinsic role the tag division has played in the company in years gone by, and how it has got many a wrestler superstar over, and how those superstars have gone on to be his world champion.

the likes of Edge, Bret, Shawn Michaels.

it has a place in the product, a potentially pivotal role if used correctly, but, the titles have to mean something.

i would pitch to Vince that, for too long, the titles have meant nothing. and the reason the titles have meant nothing for so long, is because tag team wrestling isn't being encouraged, or centred on. this is what needs to change. superstars are just being thrown together, and titles are being thrown on them, and nobody cares.

take Santino and Kozlov - a fine novelty act - but they aren't booked as a credible force, and aren't what people should think of when they think of tag-team wrestling.

remember the days of the Hart Foundation, The Rockers, Road Warriors etc...they were the backbone of the product, and they still cant be, and should be, but more often than not, they are the first rung on the ladder to becoming a big star in the business. Superstars are being thrown into singles action too early, and are often failing. Tag-team wrestling gives you the opportunity to hide the weaknesses of an individual, while accentuating the strengths. for instance - the Hart Foundation from yesteryear. Bret famously took care of the matches, while Jim Neidhart took care of most of the talking, because Bret couldn't talk yet.

so i would definitely pitch it as a ground for potential future megastars, but also, it can be part of the backbone of the WWE product right now. it can provide a lot of the match quality. in the 90s the likes of the Bulldogs, Harts, Rockers were all having the best matches on the card. 10 years ago the Hardys, E&C, Dudleys were stealing shows at WrestleMania. tag-team wrestling can still have a pivotal role.

how would i do it?

we have Nexus as Tag Champs now; so we'll take this from tonight's Raw. Have them come out, and shoot. Punk can shoot for them. He promised us that Nexus would become dominant. to do that, they needed titles, and now they have them. "and we're going to keep them". emphasise the titles. let it be known that this means they are the best team in the company, and will continue to prove it. Immediately, fans' ears will perk up a bit. Leave it as a promo.

Re-form Ryder and Hawkins, converting Hawkins to Ryder's Long Island Iced Z convert. they are ex-tag champs, but they don't even have to be mentioned. have them cut a promo backstage, a likeable one, where they do the whole Jersey Shore deal to the hilt. over the next week or 2, give them tag matches, even just 5/7 minute ones versus the likes of Trent Baretta and A.N.Other, or even Kozlov & Santino. bring DH Smith into the Kidd/Armando mix. give them a run as a heel team. have these kinds of team really set the standard for the coming weeks for tag-wrestling.

behind the scenes, get the likes of Arn Anderson and Dean Malenko to work with them in putting matches together.

throw in some PPV title matches where the Nexus continue to retain for 3/4 months. make the belts mean something. if you make the belts mean something Vince, those who wear the straps, will get heat, people will care, and will pay money to see them.

if they haven't improved enough in the ring, put the belts on the likes of Kidd/Smith. they can definitely work, and with Estrada, should be heat magnets.

Vince, remember the days when Bret used to believe winning the tag championship meant something? We want to get to that place again. if we get to that place again where the belts mean something to the talent, then we'll get the fans to care, and they'll then pay the money to watch people win or lose those titles.

we can't continue to have the titles be meaningless, because why would a fan care or pay money for a ticket?

Tag-team wrestling in the past was a bedrock for our product, and even though the business has evolved, it can still be that foundation. it gives guys break. it can hide weaknesses while they're worked on. it can provide damn fine in-ring entertainment. and it is a breeding ground for future world champions. not just world chmapions, but the greatest champions this industry has seen - as i've said before with the likes of Bret, Shawn and Edge.

we can un-earth these kinds of gem again; just give the division a chance.

Danger_dave1

Vinnie Mac will not push the tag team division, the hardys/ Dudley's / E & C happened by mistake. He got two years and then split it up because he wanted to see which guys could make him real money and perhaps push into main event status. He got 1 out of 6 .

Good talent will breakthrough. Unless he's willing to give air time on both shows and at PPV's which will cost him alot of money. What does Vince McMahon care about ? .... $$$$$

In order to pitch an idea to Vince that he will go for you need to get an end product which give financial benefit to the company and good end product. The Tag team division has produced numerous nobodies with plenty of releases. Once you do get a good tag team.

Vince will eventually take the more promising partner out of it and release the other because there not up for being a single's competitor. What does that leave you ? a tag team going down hill because you've lost your best tag team in the division , the push you've given your tag division has stalled and you've got to start pushing new tag team partners, where the fans don't care for another few months and when they do same happens again or the tag team you've pushed is not liked by the fans, then you cut them and try again. Very costly , hit and miss and no stable division because your looking for the new WWE Champion.

Think of all the boring tag team matches at the start of PPV's.

Bret/Shawn/ Edge would have all made it without the tag team division.

The future WWE champions will come without a pushed tag team division.

SlickRic

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

Vinnie Mac will not push the tag team division, the hardys/ Dudley's / E & C happened by mistake. He got two years and then split it up because he wanted to see which guys could make him real money and perhaps push into main event status. He got 1 out of 6 .

he got 2 out of 6. Jeff and Edge.

plus Christian is ME on Smackdown now.

Good talent will breakthrough. Unless he's willing to give air time on both shows and at PPV's which will cost him alot of money. What does Vince McMahon care about ? .... $$$$$

that's why i'm playing to the $$$$.

WWE is not making money on PPVs. well at least not the money it used to. this is because people don't care. the tag division can be used as a tool to help superstars get time on screen, the fans can invest in them, then, in time, if people care enough they'll pay to see them.

that's how it should work; and that is something Vince has missed it seems.

In order to pitch an idea to Vince that he will go for you need to get an end product which give financial benefit to the company and good end product. The Tag team division has produced numerous nobodies with plenty of releases.

simply because teams aren't given time, and because the titles change hands so frequently, there is no reason to care about the tag division. the teams need time for people to care. they need matches and promo time, and that's what i'm pitching to Vince in essence.

Vince will eventually take the more promising partner out of it

he will. and that's part of my plug. if Vince sees real singles talent - like with Bret, Shawn, Jeff, Edge - then great. the tag division has served a purpose. it's worked some good matches, and has potentially unearthed a star who will go on to maybe make Vince some money.

as i said before, Bret for example couldn't talk, but he could wrestle. without a tag division to hone some of those skills, and without Neidhart to hide behind for the promos (as he himself will admit), he may not have made it the same way he did. we'll never know.

release the other because there not up for being a single's competitor. What does that leave you ? a tag team going down hill because you've lost your best tag team in the division , the push you've given your tag division has stalled and you've got to start pushing new tag team partners, where the fans don't care for another few months and when they do same happens again or the tag team you've pushed is not liked by the fans, then you cut them and try again. Very costly , hit and miss and no stable division because your looking for the new WWE Champion.

1. there is a wealth of talent to tag together, and if the tag division has interest in it, then you won't necssarily have them all breaking up all the time. Vince may want to keep some together. how long were Hardys, E&C, Hart Foundation, Rockers, Road Warriors, Dudleys all together?

if there is more care in the division, as i'm pushing, then Vince will not want it destroyed, because fans are caring, and coming to shows, and buying merch.

2. it's really not that costly. certainly no more costly than continuously trying competitors in singles action, then when they're too green, throwing them back to FCW. the tag division gives superstars the chance to mature.

Think of all the boring tag team matches at the start of PPV's.

because the division is given no time, and no care, which is why they're boring. i've also addressed the quality by getting Arn Anderson and Malenko to work with them.

Bret/Shawn/ Edge would have all made it without the tag team division.

they may well have; but ask them where their break was, and how they got 'in', and where they honed their craft - yup, in the tag division.

The future WWE champions will come without a pushed tag team division.

but better ones that people actually give a shít about, and pay more money on PPVs for, may come after they're in the spotlight in the tag division for a decent amount of time.

---

your Diva idea, i do like. but here goes...

Booking more focus on the matches being wrestling matches, technical moves , high intensity finishes. If certain diva's on the roster need to improve to get up to scratch , send them to FCW for a month or two.

agreed, that's fair enough.

Recruitment: College athletes. Thats right ! Basketball players , track and field star's etc, Get these women's trained up and give the women's division some air time.

hmmm...i don't really see Vince being successful in headhunting all these athletes, but we'll go with it...

The angle, A "New "Breed" of Diva Stronger, athletic , beautiful and dangerous. Have them feud with the established Diva's rip the division a new one, make the current women know the current level is not good enough.

i'd like to see this. my only problem is that there is absolutely no focus on the Divas actually being wrestlers. Vince is not going to rip up everything, and invest in athletes that may never have even thought about wrestling before IMO.

After the initial surge and winning of the title Bire Bella , have the new breed turn on each other. With the "New Breed" always helping each other out by have one manager each at the ring, after they start winning, The GM starts pitching them against each other, tension's rise, When one of the new breed is up against one of the older diva's the new breed's manager cost's her ally the match.

After a few more losses, the new breed start to turn on each other anarchy ensues leaving Vince to pick the best of the "New Breed" and the best of the old diva's who have performed to start a new diva division with the main focus on wrestling.

i can't fault the idea, very creative, but i just can't see it ever realistically coming to fruition, and anyone being able to argue with Vince that...

1. the Divas division could sell; and
2. investment in untrained athletes will lead to $$$$$$

i'd like to hear someone try.

The old diva's that cant cut it are given "WWE has come to terms on the release of "insert Name" as of today. We wish " insert name" the best in all future endeavors.

Any of the "New Breed" that are not to popular get the same treatment.

we'd all like to see a few of them future endeavoured.

Other Changes, change the belt to a world championship belt as a opposed to the current diva belt.

good God yes.

Now at this point you have excellent performers that are good on the eye

very, very idealistic. a whole lot more than mine IMO.

Vince is never, ever going to push the Divas like that. the idea of him going and getting the best athletes he can find, invest in training them up from scratch, just seems a bit far fetched to me.

my plan for the tag division has a far bigger likeliehood in paying Vince back in good matches, and possible future superstars and main eventers, than a Divas division, one which has never really drawn money, bar arguably Trish. Vince doesn't see the Divas as competitors in the ring; they're there for the aesthetics - that is how they draw, if at all, and it will be left at that.

Danger_dave1

he got 2 out of 6. Jeff and Edge

Jeff was main event for 2-4 PPV's over 3 years with continous suspensions ? not exactly a sustained talent.

if there is more care in the division, as i'm pushing, then Vince will not want it destroyed, because fans are caring, and coming to shows, and buying merch.

So Vince will change what he's done over the last 30 years ? Sorry mate the mixture of great tag feuds have come by accident and when they get enough crowd reaction , vince cuts them out of the tag division and pushes them to just below main event before pushing them all the way if they can.

So you'll never have a revitalised tag team division. it will continually lose momentum to losing it best stars to single's.

i don't really see Vince being successful in headhunting all these athletes

Why? if there just below the top athletes and are not going to turn professional ? what are they going to do ? . Vince could start them on very little while there developing in FCW and only start paying them good money when they start moving on to TV . Not going to need massive investment.

The out going college athletes will be interested in an industry that will appreciate there athleticism plus they could go to the top level and get paid good money.

getting the best athletes he can find, invest in training them up from scratch, just seems a bit far fetched to me

Thats how he got the next big thing " Brock Lesnar "

SlickRic

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

Jeff was main event for 2-4 PPV's over 3 years with continous suspensions ? not exactly a sustained talent.

he was the most over babyface in the business when he left, more 'over' than Cena in terms of being liked, and the general public wanting him to win.

he was huge.

So Vince will change what he's done over the last 30 years ? Sorry mate the mixture of great tag feuds have come by accident and when they get enough crowd reaction , vince cuts them out of the tag division and pushes them to just below main event before pushing them all the way if they can.

indeed he does. but that's when they're over. that is the use of the tag division. long term, but it's not even being used for that right now.

So you'll never have a revitalised tag team division. it will continually lose momentum to losing it best stars to single's.

if Vince "always" cuts out the stars and the tag division will always lose momentum, how come it's only in the last few years where the division has waned? because it's not being used at all. not to build a credible division, or to build stars. aim for a credible division. and you could get stars given time. that's my pitch.

Why? if there just below the top athletes and are not going to turn professional ? what are they going to do ? . Vince could start them on very little while there developing in FCW and only start paying them good money when they start moving on to TV . Not going to need massive investment.

yet investing in tag teams you said was a big investment? athletes that are already in the company...

you could very well get some athletes for cheap, i couldn't tell you.

The out going college athletes will be interested in an industry that will appreciate there athleticism plus they could go to the top level and get paid good money.

he won't have his pick of athletes, that's for sure. and of the ones he could get, how many of them don't want to be part of 'sports entertainment'? we just don't know.

Thats how he got the next big thing " Brock Lesnar "

and this is the thing; i just don't see a Divas division drawing. no Diva is going to be a star like Brock. and we can see with the way Vince has treated Divas down the years to today, that they are there for aesthetics.

it'd take far too much time, effort and work to make a completely re-vitalised Divas division work IMO; and though your attempt looks admirable, i reckon it's far too idealistic to succeed; and i don't think it's a pitch you could convince Vince with.

certainly not compared to a re-worked tag division that IMO is very simple to tweak, and with that tweaking could pay dividends, with quality matches, potential openers for PPVs in the short-medium term, and the potential for future singles superstars to get the experience and maturity they need as the long term goal.

make the belts mean something, put some thought into the people you throw together, give them a bit of TV time week on week, and see what happens.

Bounty Hunter

With just over 70% of the vote our winner advancing to the quater finals to face thebostoncrab is SlickRic, congrats man. Hard luck & Well played Danger Dave but it seems you still have a role to play as the next matchup involves myself so whenever you want to set a question for me and Mitch have it at it.

SlickRic

i'm not just trying to nice, but i thought it'd be closer.

the new athletic Divas are needed, and it'd be an interesting angle to see play out.