Foreign nationals arriving with entire familys to our social welfare offices

nanomantra

hello,

I have been out of work for a while now and my prsi stamps have run out - hence I had to apply to get unemployment assistance. This is proving to be a time consuming and frustrating task with frequent visits to the galway social welfare office. One thing I have noticed is the ratio of foreign nationals to irish, its quite difficult to pick up on an irish accent in there or even difficult to hear someone speaking english. On numerous occasions one member of a family (i presume a family as the other members range in age from grand parents to toddlers) who can speak english is speaking to a social welfare representative and then translating all details back to the non english speaking group. These groups seem to be predominantly from eastern bloc countries (again i assume this from the accents). Is it that family members are now flocking over here from poland,lithuaninia , latvia etc as they have heard how great the benefits are ? perhaps. Anyway my point is that my claim is being delayed for three months now as the social welfare guys have told me they are so swamped with claims that they are just now able to handle the volume. Im not saying that this is all foreign nationals faults - but the additional pressure they are applying to the system is really pushing it to the limit. In the meantime Irish born people who have worked all their lives (such as me) are suffering for it. Im getting really miffed about this - and am afraid to say that I am becoming a tad racist now towards foreign nationals. YOu know the old rant ~"they did the jobs the irish didnt want" - the people who say that are usually the ones that are sitting comfy in a job and are secure - they dont have the worries that we do. I worked in the catering industry and believe me I WOULD DO A JOB that maybe some other irish wouldnt do - but the jobs just aint there. I gurantee you one thing - if the roles were reversed and lets say that the irish all flocked to Poland or Lithuania or wherever - the citizens of those countries would not sit back and watch their people starved while outsiders prospered and sent money home, or as is happening here collect money from the social welfare and send some back home to pay off mortgages in their home countries. I think if france had been invaded by hundreds of thousands of people from eastern europe - they would have had a hell of a lot more to say than the Irish.
Im angry to see what has happened to my country. Im sad for Ireland - the country is losing its identity -im sure im not alone in feeling like this - just had to get it off my chest. Cheers

Stheno

Habitual residence would prevent this given that it's a fairly stringent requirement?

hinault

CSO released figures today showing the number of migrants in to our country
between 2004-2009.
Approximately 1 million people foreign nationals travelled to and from Ireland during the period

http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/labour_market/current/ppsn.pdf

I don't know if the CSO statistics have any bearing on the OP's posts about social welfare claims.

Virgo80

Nanomantra, I understand your frustration and sense of resentment against those foreigners whom you have to queue up with at the Social Welfare office.
However, correct me if I am wrong here, I believe that the Irish were in a similar situation whereby there was a mass emigration from Ireland into other countries, when this country was not doing very well?

Also, it seems that this trend is now true for Irish people who are actually seeking better luck elsewhere. See an example below?

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2011/jan/09/uk-authorities-concerned-about-mass-emigration-fro/

Just a different point of view...neither right or wrong. Just different.

-Chris-

Congratulations, you are now a racist.

later12

nanomantra wrote: »

One thing I have noticed is the ratio of foreign nationals to irish, its quite difficult to pick up on an irish accent in there or even difficult to hear someone speaking english.

I find this difficult to believe. Lets take the live register - a fair reflection of those one would be likely to meet in a social welfare local office (whether unemployed, casual, or under employed).

Irish nationals account for 82.4% of those on the live register, and this number is on the increase.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0506/1224296280723.html

Now perhaps you are living in an area with an extremely large foreign national population, or else you have extraordinary bad luck in catching only foreign nationals in your social welfare office. However, as a rule of thumb, one would expect 8 out of every 10 people in your local office to be Irish.

citizens of those countries would not sit back and watch their people starved while outsiders prospered

Starved?

efb

How can ousiders 'prosper' on the same 'JSA' that 'starves' citizens?

previous user

nanomantra wrote: »

hello,

I have been out of work for a while now and my prsi stamps have run out - hence I had to apply to get unemployment assistance. This is proving to be a time consuming and frustrating task with frequent visits to the galway social welfare office. One thing I have noticed is the ratio of foreign nationals to irish, its quite difficult to pick up on an irish accent in there or even difficult to hear someone speaking english. On numerous occasions one member of a family (i presume a family as the other members range in age from grand parents to toddlers) who can speak english is speaking to a social welfare representative and then translating all details back to the non english speaking group. These groups seem to be predominantly from eastern bloc countries (again i assume this from the accents). Is it that family members are now flocking over here from poland,lithuaninia , latvia etc as they have heard how great the benefits are ? perhaps. Anyway my point is that my claim is being delayed for three months now as the social welfare guys have told me they are so swamped with claims that they are just now able to handle the volume. Im not saying that this is all foreign nationals faults - but the additional pressure they are applying to the system is really pushing it to the limit. In the meantime Irish born people who have worked all their lives (such as me) are suffering for it. Im getting really miffed about this - and am afraid to say that I am becoming a tad racist now towards foreign nationals. YOu know the old rant ~"they did the jobs the irish didnt want" - the people who say that are usually the ones that are sitting comfy in a job and are secure - they dont have the worries that we do. I worked in the catering industry and believe me I WOULD DO A JOB that maybe some other irish wouldnt do - but the jobs just aint there. I gurantee you one thing - if the roles were reversed and lets say that the irish all flocked to Poland or Lithuania or wherever - the citizens of those countries would not sit back and watch their people starved while outsiders prospered and sent money home, or as is happening here collect money from the social welfare and send some back home to pay off mortgages in their home countries. I think if france had been invaded by hundreds of thousands of people from eastern europe - they would have had a hell of a lot more to say than the Irish.
Im angry to see what has happened to my country. Im sad for Ireland - the country is losing its identity -im sure im not alone in feeling like this - just had to get it off my chest. Cheers

Shocking, truly shocking.

dlofnep

Virgo80 wrote: »

However, correct me if I am wrong here, I believe that the Irish were in a similar situation whereby there was a mass emigration from Ireland into other countries, when this country was not doing very well?

Presumably to seek work.

In anycase - the only way a foreign national will receive welfare, is if they are entitled to it. If they are entitled to Welfare, then I don't see why anyone would object to it. If you feel that the ratio of foreign nationals on welfare to Irish nationals is lob-sided, you're going to have to provide some statistics, rather than casual observation. This is a politics forum, not pub banter.

Tora Bora

Whenever I go to my local bank, I get the impression I have been transported momentarily to Africa.:D
At least 70% of people in the que are African women. Never got the impression the money they were transacting was earned by toil and labour.

dlofnep

Tora Bora wrote: »

Never got the impression the money they were transacting was earned by toil and labour.

And tell me how you were able to pass judgement on people so easily, on a 2 minute trip to the bank?

beeftotheheels

dlofnep wrote: »

And tell me how you were able to pass judgement on people so easily, on a 2 minute trip to the bank?

I'm hoping that post was liberally sprinkled with irony (unlike the OP).

Cookie_Monster

efb wrote: »

How can ousiders 'prosper' on the same 'JSA' that 'starves' citizens?

Luxury brand name cornflakes and milk don't come cheap you know, not like that foreign muck

Chnandler Bong

dlofnep are you the spokesperson for all these foreigners?

-Chris-

Tora Bora wrote: »

Whenever I go to my local bank, I get the impression I have been transported momentarily to Africa.:D
At least 70% of people in the que are African women. Never got the impression the money they were transacting was earned by toil and labour.

How do you define "toil and labour" even?

Are African accountants working less or more hard than African McDonald's employees?
Are either of them working less or more hard than an Irish person?

UDAWINNER

nanomantra wrote: »

hello,

I have been out of work for a while now and my prsi stamps have run out - hence I had to apply to get unemployment assistance. This is proving to be a time consuming and frustrating task with frequent visits to the galway social welfare office. One thing I have noticed is the ratio of foreign nationals to irish, its quite difficult to pick up on an irish accent in there or even difficult to hear someone speaking english. On numerous occasions one member of a family (i presume a family as the other members range in age from grand parents to toddlers) who can speak english is speaking to a social welfare representative and then translating all details back to the non english speaking group. These groups seem to be predominantly from eastern bloc countries (again i assume this from the accents). Is it that family members are now flocking over here from poland,lithuaninia , latvia etc as they have heard how great the benefits are ? perhaps. Anyway my point is that my claim is being delayed for three months now as the social welfare guys have told me they are so swamped with claims that they are just now able to handle the volume. Im not saying that this is all foreign nationals faults - but the additional pressure they are applying to the system is really pushing it to the limit. In the meantime Irish born people who have worked all their lives (such as me) are suffering for it. Im getting really miffed about this - and am afraid to say that I am becoming a tad racist now towards foreign nationals. YOu know the old rant ~"they did the jobs the irish didnt want" - the people who say that are usually the ones that are sitting comfy in a job and are secure - they dont have the worries that we do. I worked in the catering industry and believe me I WOULD DO A JOB that maybe some other irish wouldnt do - but the jobs just aint there. I gurantee you one thing - if the roles were reversed and lets say that the irish all flocked to Poland or Lithuania or wherever - the citizens of those countries would not sit back and watch their people starved while outsiders prospered and sent money home, or as is happening here collect money from the social welfare and send some back home to pay off mortgages in their home countries. I think if france had been invaded by hundreds of thousands of people from eastern europe - they would have had a hell of a lot more to say than the Irish.
Im angry to see what has happened to my country. Im sad for Ireland - the country is losing its identity -im sure im not alone in feeling like this - just had to get it off my chest. Cheers

Congratulations on your 1st post being a racist one.

Chnandler Bong

UDAWINNER wrote: »

Congratulations on your 1st post being a racist one.

Where in the OP's post is there racism?

later12

Tora Bora wrote: »

At least 70% of people in the que are African women. Never got the impression the money they were transacting was earned by toil and labour.

Oh really?

In my bank all the Irish people come in wearing jump suits and coal mining helmets, sweat dripping down their faces. And the only reason they come in to save a few humble shillin's in the wee one's kidney transplant fund... bless their laborious souls....

CrackisWhack

I have noticed similar in my local office, so much so that it would make me question those statistics, Obviously this is just through observation.

I have nothing against any of these foreign nationals, they're just getting by with what they can get as anybody would do. However I do think the EU open border policy here was a monumental error for a country of our size, our social welfare is very generous, but it will have to change for all of us, the state can't take the burden.

later12

CrackisWhack wrote: »

...it would make me question those statistics, Obviously this is just through observation.

Yes, it is. Whereas the live register is an administrative count of claimants that can be broken down by nationality. I see no reason to question its figures, really.

And how do you know that those who are not speaking English (or Irish for that matter) are foreign nationals?

RichardAnd

-Chris- wrote: »

Congratulations, you are now a racist.

Whenever anyone raised any complaint against any one who isn't a white male, the racist/sexist/bigot card gets pulled. Regardless of the OP's issue, it's perfectly reasonable to raise an issue regarding other people irrespective of their race, nationality, sexuality and/or gender.

CrackisWhack

later10 wrote: »

Yes, it is. Whereas the live register is an administrative count of claimants that can be broken down by nationality. I see no reason to question its figures, really.

And how do you know that those who are not speaking English (or Irish for that matter) are foreign nationals?

Yes, as I said I don't know, but it's certainly hasn't been 2 in every 10 in my office.

I assume, if I hear somebody speaking Polish, that their from Poland?

later12

CrackisWhack wrote: »

I assume, if I hear somebody speaking Polish, that their from Poland?

Me too, for now, although that will likely change as the demographic develops and more Irish born children of Polish descent grow up.

But I wouldn't be so quick to assume that someone who moved here in the early 2000s has not taken Irish citizenship by becoming naturalised, and therefore, Irish. It seems like it would have been an entirely sensible thing to do.

-Chris-

RichardAnd wrote: »

Whenever anyone raised any complaint against any one who isn't a white male, the racist/sexist/bigot card gets pulled. Regardless of the OP's issue, it's perfectly reasonable to raise an issue regarding other people irrespective of their race, nationality, sexuality and/or gender.

But the OP's complaint isn't irrespective of race, nationality, sexuality and/or gender.


It's not, "it's taking too long to get my application processed" or "I'd take a job if I could find one".
Instead it's "it's taking too long to get my application processed because there are too many foreign nationals (who are possibly here for our wonderful benefits)" and "I'd take a job if I could find one, but they're all filled by foreign nationals, and you can bet they wouldn't let me take their job if I was in their country".

The argument is very much directed towards "foreign nationals" and whether they deserve to be afforded the same level of treatment as the OP.


Even the use of the word "invaded" in the second last sentence is very telling imho.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong...

CrackisWhack

later10 wrote: »

Me too, for now, although that will likely change as the demographic develops and more Irish born children of Polish descent grow up.

But I wouldn't be so quick to assume that someone who moved here in the early 2000s has not taken Irish citizenship by becoming naturalised, and therefore, Irish. It seems like it would have been an entirely sensible thing to do.

At which point English will be their native tongue and they will speak with an Irish accent!

KindOfIrish

CrackisWhack wrote: »

I assume, if I hear somebody speaking Polish, that their from Poland?

I assume, if i hear somebody speaking English, that their from England?

-Chris-

CrackisWhack wrote: »

I assume, if I hear somebody speaking Polish, that their from Poland?

While you're assuming that they're Polish, do you also assume that they have been living here for 10 years, paying the same taxes as the rest of us as they do a €60k a year job working as Finance Manager in an architects firm (for example)?

Just because they're foreign nationals doesn't mean they aren't highly educated and haven't been paying their way in our country for years.

Unless you know the individual circumstances of these individuals, you've no reason (and no right) to presume they're any different from you.

CrackisWhack

KindOfIrish wrote: »

I assume, if i hear somebody speaking English, that their from England?

:rolleyes:

Clever.

CrackisWhack

-Chris- wrote: »

While you're assuming that they're Polish, do you also assume that they have been living here for 10 years, paying the same taxes as the rest of us as they do a €60k a year job working as Finance Manager in an architects firm (for example)?

Just because they're foreign nationals doesn't mean they aren't highly educated and haven't been paying their way in our country for years.

Unless you know the individual circumstances of these individuals, you've no reason (and no right) to presume they're any different from you.

I'm well aware that many are very well educated and have worked with plenty. As I said earlier I have absolutely nothing against any foreign national here applying for social welfare.

My main gripe is with the level of Immigration allowed in this country in the '00's.

later12

CrackisWhack wrote: »

At which point English will be their native tongue and they will speak with an Irish accent!

Don't you know any second generation descendants who speak the same language of their parents? Many second generation descendants of emigrants who spoke a foreign language will be bilingual.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIzivCJ9pzU

Iwannahurl

nanomantra wrote: »

Im angry to see what has happened to my country. Im sad for Ireland - the country is losing its identity -im sure im not alone in feeling like this - just had to get it off my chest. Cheers

Exactly what is/was this country's identity, which we are allegedly losing?

D1stant

I'm not a racist but.....How bloody PC we have become

The OP raises an honest and painful issue and gets lambasted by self righteous 'non-racist' types

FFS. We need to have a debate on this in this country without the childish knee-jerk reactions.

Not one politician (on the national stage) let alone party has had the balls to address this issue. This countries demographic has changed and will continue to change dramatically. Why cant we have a grown up discussion on how Ireland manages this?

Other countries are pretty good at it.

Can we

- Decide on a periodic basis what skills we need
- Only allow in immigrabnts that supply those needs
- Only grant citizenship and benefits under strict guidlines
- Systematically deport offenders

Ireland is a soft touch. Get real. Would Austraila or Germany or the US put up with this in 2011?

p.s. Been through an Irish Immigration Passport check in tha last 15 years? A 'howareya' is usually enough. I have to believe there are howareya pronounciation schools all over EMEA

CrackisWhack

later10 wrote: »

Don't you know any second generation descendants who speak the same language of their parents? Many second generation descendants of emigrants who spoke a foreign language will be bilingual.

Yes of course, I think we're getting away from the point a bit here, generally you can tell if somebody is Irish or not:pac: ie if they're speaking to the to the social welfare worker in broken English with an eastern European accent, It's highly unlikely they were born and raised here or have been in the country for a substantial length of time.

CrackisWhack

D1stant wrote: »

I'm not a racist but.....How bloody PC we have become

The OP raises an honest and painful issue and gets lambasted by self righteous 'non-racist' types

FFS. We need to have a debate on this in this country without the childish knee-jerk reactions.

Not one politician (on the national stage) let alone party has had the balls to address this issue. This countries demographic has changed and will continue to change dramatically. Why cant we have a grown up discussion on how Ireland manages this

Other countries are pretty good at it.

Can we

- Decide on a periodic basis what skills we need
- Only allow in immigrabnts that supply those needs
- Only grant citizenship and benefits under strict guidlines
- Systematically extradite offenders

Ireland is a soft touch. Get real. Would Austraila or Germany or the US put up with this in 2011?

p.s. Been through an Irish Immigration Passport check in tha last 15 years? A 'howareya' is usually enough. I have to believe there are howareya pronounciation schools all over EMEA

I agree, wanting to have stricter controls on immigration does not = racism.

e.g. If you are applying for sponsorship through a company in Australia, they have to prove, that an Australian citizen could not be sourced for the job.

beeftotheheels

D1stant wrote: »

I'm not a racist but.....How bloody PC we have become

The OP raises an honest and painful issue and gets lambasted by self righteous 'non-racist' types

FFS. We need to have a debate on this in this country without the childish knee-jerk reactions.

Not one politician (on the national stage) let alone party has had the balls to address this issue. This countries demographic has changed and will continue to change dramatically. Why cant we have a grown up discussion on how Ireland manages this

Other countries are pretty good at it.

Can we

- Decide on a periodic basis what skills we need
- Only allow in immigrabnts that supply those needs
- Only grant citizenship and benefits under strict guidlines
- Systematically extradite offenders

Ireland is a soft touch. Get real. Would Austraila or Germany or the US put up with this in 2011?

The OP referenced Poles, Lithuanians and Latvians, all of whom are nationals of another EU Member State so no, we can not have a discussion, and Germany can not have a discussion, grown up or childish knee jerk about this.

Just as our nationals can move to another EU Member State, their nationals can move here and are afforded certain protections by law.

We can cut our welfare, we cannot treat nationals of other EU member States in a discriminatory fashion.

later12

CrackisWhack wrote: »

Yes of course, I think we're getting away from the point a bit here, generally you can tell if somebody is Irish or not:pac: ie if they're speaking to the to the social welfare worker in broken English with an eastern European accent, It's highly unlikely they were born and raised here or have been in the country for a substantial length of time.

Well first of all, legally they have to have been in the country for a significant amount of time to satisfy for habitual residence. Same goes for naturalisation.

So I'm not sure how we can know that a Polish speaking man in a social welfare queue, who has been living in Ireland since 2006, is carrying with him a Polish passport or an Irish passport. It doesn't make a difference if he was born in Wroclaw or in Waterford. If he is an Irish citizen, he is an Irish citizen.

How do you tell the difference?

CrackisWhack

beeftotheheels wrote: »

The OP referenced Poles, Lithuanians and Latvians, all of whom are nationals of another EU Member State so no, we can not have a discussion, and Germany can not have a discussion, grown up or childish knee jerk about this.

Just as our nationals can move to another EU Member State, their nationals can move here and are afforded certain protections by law.

We can cut our welfare, we cannot treat nationals of other EU member States in a discriminatory fashion.

Yes, the decision has already been made. IMO it was a bad one for Ireland with a small population and high living standard at the time, it was silly to believe Ireland could support and sustain mass immigration from countries in eastern Europe, some of, which have populations ten times ours.

It got to the stage where we were building houses to rent out to immigrants(lots of tradesmen amongst them) to build more houses, which in reality there was no need for.

D1stant

beeftotheheels wrote: »

The OP referenced Poles, Lithuanians and Latvians, all of whom are nationals of another EU Member State so no, we can not have a discussion, and Germany can not have a discussion, grown up or childish knee jerk about this.

Just as our nationals can move to another EU Member State, their nationals can move here and are afforded certain protections by law.

We can cut our welfare, we cannot treat nationals of other EU member States in a discriminatory fashion.

I'm aware of the EU situation. I'm also aware of the historical irony. And I did mention this in a regional non-european context

So by this resigned position all we can do is to reduce our social welfare. We cannot discuss it. It is a thing with no name. Wonderful.......

Now if all member states were forced to pay the same benefits that might work. If.

CrackisWhack

later10 wrote: »

Well first of all, legally they have to have been in the country for a significant amount of time to satisfy for habitual residence. Same goes for naturalisation.

So I'm not sure how we can know that a Polish speaking man in a social welfare queue, who has been living in Ireland since 2006, is carrying with him a Polish passport or an Irish passport. It doesn't make a difference if he was born in Wroclaw or in Waterford. If he is an Irish citizen, he is an Irish citizen.

How do you tell the difference?

Well tbh, I was more using the example of when someone is talking to the social welfare officer, someone living here for 6 years would generally be a fairly fluent English speaker and would have even picked up certain parts of the local accent, I know the Polish I worked with did.

Tomtata

OP Don’t blame the foreign nationals - Blame the system and Government for letting it happen. Would you take a 2 hour Ryanair flight for €5, stay in a Friend’s house & get 10 times your Monthly salary for doing nothing. Of Course you would.

Why does it take so long and why is the entire system so open to abuse - FAILURE OF MANAGEMENT AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

What’s going to change - NOTHING
The society and systems we live in don’t exactly work, they are simply best effort.

ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY = FAILURE

-Chris-

D1stant wrote: »

Can we

- Decide on a periodic basis what skills we need
- Only allow in immigrabnts that supply those needs
- Only grant citizenship and benefits under strict guidlines
- Systematically deport offenders

I would love for this to happen, I fully support your ideas.

Unfortunately that's not the current reality, and the OP's post, in the context of the current reality/immigration policy doesn't address any of these issues, merely issues of nationality.

CrackisWhack wrote: »

Yes, the decision has already been made. IMO it was a bad one for Ireland with a small population and high living standard at the time, it was silly to believe Ireland could support and sustain mass immigration from countries in eastern Europe, some of, which have populations ten times ours.

But it's too late for that. We signed up to a disadvantageous (to us) immigration policy. We can't discriminate against the migrants for following that policy.
You can implement a new immigration policy to strengthen our borders, but the moment you make it retrospective and start deporting people because of where they're from you're on a very slippery moral slope...

CrackisWhack wrote: »

It got to the stage where we were building houses to rent out to immigrants(lots of tradesmen amongst them) to build more houses, which in reality there was no need for.

Surely that's a planning issue rather than a migration issue?

mc3ac

Couldn't agree more with the original poster, in a similar situation myself, worked in australia and was periodically out of work a couple of times - absolutely no chance of dole there unless you're a resident and you come back here and more often than not in the dole office its mostly non-irish people claiming. If we weren't so generous in dishing it out to everyone who arrives on our shores, maybe the country's finances might be in better shape.

DublinWriter

D1stant wrote: »

I'm not a racist but.....How bloody PC we have become

The OP raises an honest and painful issue and gets lambasted by self righteous 'non-racist' types

I'm neither a racist but...

I find as I get older, the more right-wing I get. Right now I'm paying through the nose for all medical costs for my family, visits to our local GP clinic (our GP got paid €250,000+ by the state last year and the clinic is in a disgraceful state), prescription costs (we now save 50% by getting them filled up the North), medical insurance of 2K+ a year, plus PRSI contributions I have to pay yet being self-employed, I'm not entitled to any benefit from.

Most of the mods/users on here are young and have yet to discover the horror of the Irish medical system when admitting a parent/child, let alone the financial consequences.

It's like that old saying, a left-winger is a right-winger who hasn't been mugged yet.

My father worked 50+ years and at 71 still drives a f*cking bus - he only qualified for the HSE card last year after much hassle, yet I see plenty of recent 'imports' to the country who receive this as almost an unalienable right of entry.

CrackisWhack

-Chris- wrote: »

I would love for this to happen, I fully support your ideas.

Unfortunately that's not the current reality, and the OP's post, in the context of the current reality/immigration policy doesn't address any of these issues, merely issues of nationality.




But it's too late for that. We signed up to a disadvantageous (to us) immigration policy. We can't discriminate against the migrants for following that policy.
You can implement a new immigration policy to strengthen our borders, but the moment you make it retrospective and start deporting people because of where they're from you're on a very slippery moral slope...




Surely that's a planning issue rather than a migration issue?

Ye, I never said we should discriminate, I suppose I was really going off topic from the OP, my main point was our immigration policy is in need of a re-think.

-Chris-

mc3ac wrote: »

Couldn't agree more with the original poster, in a similar situation myself, worked in australia and was periodically out of work a couple of times - absolutely no chance of dole there unless you're a resident and you come back here and more often than not in the dole office its mostly non-irish people claiming. If we weren't so generous in dishing it out to everyone who arrives on our shores, maybe the country's finances might be in better shape.

Was the only stipulation for collecting dole in Australia that you were Australian?

Were there other stipulations surrounding duration of stay, citizenship, amount of tax/stamps paid or any other factors?

Tora Bora

beeftotheheels wrote: »

The OP referenced Poles, Lithuanians and Latvians, all of whom are nationals of another EU Member State so no, we can not have a discussion, and Germany can not have a discussion, grown up or childish knee jerk about this.

Just as our nationals can move to another EU Member State, their nationals can move here and are afforded certain protections by law.

We can cut our welfare, we cannot treat nationals of other EU member States in a discriminatory fashion.

Agreed in general. However, paying stupid high Irish children's allowance rates, children living in their home countries, of EU nationals living here, is total fcuking madness, for a bankrupt country like Ireland.
PS. Plenty of our own nationals getting welfare should also get short shift.
Africa is not a member of the EU. A bust economy like ourselves, should make it pretty much impossible for Africans, to either work or draw welfare here. Exceptions being in areas where there are skills shortages here.
We can't afford all this cuddly wuddly, nicey wicey, pay all these entitlements to all and sundry.

CrackisWhack

-Chris- wrote: »

Surely that's a planning issue rather than a migration issue?

It's both.

Quaderno

People have all but stopped coming to Ireland anyway, the 2009-numbers have dropped by almost two thirds from the peak in 2006 and I presume it got much worse since then. Many more are leaving. Ireland simply cannot afford to be choosey.
About 600.000 former immigrants have most likely already left these shores, many of them without claiming welfare after having paid their taxes for years. Do you think they were all wrong? Ireland isn't the only nice place on earth. The whole idea of making immigration more difficult comes many years too late - and there were very good reasons nobody wanted to even think about that 10 years ago...
Regards,
An immigrant

Sources:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0527/workforce.html and http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/labour_market/current/ppsn.pdf (esp. Page 15)

beeftotheheels

CrackisWhack wrote: »

Yes, the decision has already been made. IMO it was a bad one for Ireland with a small population and high living standard at the time, it was silly to believe Ireland could support and sustain mass immigration from countries in eastern Europe, some of, which have populations ten times ours.

It got to the stage where we were building houses to rent out to immigrants(lots of tradesmen amongst them) to build more houses, which in reality there was no need for.

If we chose to take EU structural funds, which we did
If we chose to attract subsidiaries from higher tax member states here with our competitive tax rate, which we did
If we chose to emigrate to other Member States, including the UK, which we did

We could not then try to control the one of the fundamental freedoms in one direction only

You can't be a member of a club and not comply with the one rule which doesn't suit you if you benefit from a whole tonne of the other rules which we did

CrackisWhack

Quaderno wrote: »

People have all but stopped coming to Ireland anyway, the 2009-numbers have dropped by almost two thirds from the peak in 2006 and I presume it got much worse since then. Many more are leaving. Ireland simply cannot afford to be choosey.
About 600.000 former immigrants have most likely already left these shores, many of them without claiming welfare after having paid their taxes for years. Do you think they were all wrong? Ireland isn't the only nice place on earth. The whole idea of making immigration more difficult comes many years too late - and there were very good reasons nobody wanted to even think about that 10 years ago...
Regards,
An immigrant

Sources:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0527/workforce.html and http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/labour_market/current/ppsn.pdf (esp. Page 15)

Is that stat saying there was only 13,765 polish people working in Ireland in 2009?