Native tree/shrub shelter in challenging location

johngalway

Hi folks,

Cross posting this, I hope no one minds as it may get me more info, if that's a problem, please move as you see fit.

Basically I am looking to split my farm into paddocks into the future. To do this I require additional shelter both for animals and to improve my grass potential. I won't be planting in bunches but rather in lines around paddocks, if that makes sense, like hedges but not hedges... What I want to do is reduce the viciousness of the wind that can be around here at times by making windbreaks, make life easier on everyone and every thing.

I want to do this the easiest, cheapest way I can. I've enough work on already and the farm budget is busy elsewhere

I want to plant native species. Don't know a huge amount on the subject but I have been Googling species like:

Rowan Mountain Ash Tree
Blackthorn
Hawthorn
Scots Pine
Sycamore
Downey Birch
Black Alder
Trembling Poplar/Aspen
Willow

So, the land quality isn't good. Done a soil test before and I believe the PH is around 5 or so. It's described as poor peat grazing, read shallow blanket bog that's been grazed and a (very) little improved. The site is exposed to sometimes very windy conditions. Not far from the sea at all but I don't believe salt will be a problem here.

From my own (very) limited knowledge of the subject I'll need to do various things like prepare the soil for planting, I do have access to some quite old sheep/straw manure from a shed, not sure if it could be described as "rotted" as it's just sat there indoors.

The young trees/shrubs will need to be protected from the sheep. Sheep wire fencing isn't an option for this as it'd prove too costly for me. I have been thinking of some sort of individual close mesh plastic netting around each tree?

Times of year to do this, not a clue...

Can most/all/any of these species be grown from cuttings directly into the ground? Or what's the cheapest/easiest/most effective way to ensure success of my project.

Am open to suggestion on species and methods And anything I've missed, which I'm sure is quite a bit!

ATB,

John

magicbastarder

just one minor point - sycamore is not native.

willow would have a good strike rate from cuttings - someone else might know better how feasible it would be to use this as a nurse tree for other species. also, willow is happiest in wet soils.

johngalway

Ah, I got Sycamore off a UK site, was searching for trees suitable for exposed sites.

Also, forgot Holly on my list :rolleyes:

Traonach

Black Alder will grow well in poor exposed land and will provide a good wind break. If you want a stock proof hedge/windbreak you will have to add in some thorn plants (50-75%). Blackthorn will grow well in coastal areas. Whitehorn also a hardy plant and will grow quicker than blackthorn.

Scots pine is slow growing as is holly. Sycamore is invasive and as said is non-native.

Mountain Ash will grow well in poor soils.

Willow will grow very quickly on poor soils as will birch.

It is best to plant bare rooted plants in the spring (cheapest). A good hedge will have a double row of plants, each 15-20cm from each other. A trench filled with well rooted farmyard manure will give the hedge a good start. A good plant mix for you in your exposed peaty soil would be a mixture of Black Alder, Whitethorn sceach, Blackthorn, Willow, Birch and some mountain ash. For a stock proof hedge I would cut the whitethorn/Blackthorn sapling back to within two inches of the ground when you plant. Everything else you could leave uncut. You would have to keep the willow trimmed back every year, because it is fast growing it will smother the other plants. You will also have to control grasses weeds in the first couple of years otherwise your hedge will be stunted. If you are to apply weedkiller to kill off grasses make sure you do it in winter when no leaves on hedge otherwise you will kill the trees.

Hares will be a problem and they will eat the developing hedge. You would have to put up some mesh barrier against them. A mesh barrier will also protect against the wind as the hedge is developing. Even a double electric fence is no barrier to them. If you don't do something to protect the hedge you will have no hedge left. Don't shoot them.

johngalway

Plenty of hares here alright, put it to ya this way, sheep are taller than a hare, and I'm not going to shoot the sheep - yet anyway :pac: So the hares on my farm aren't in any danger.

I'm not so much looking for a hedge to be honest, just a bit of cover around the place to take the edge off the wind. I've a fair few old stone walls in a bad state so for low wind break, they'll do once I get around to digging them up and putting them back to where they're supposed to be!

Is it possible to do anything from cuttings with these species, willow aside as I know that's a runner for it.

May use something like a weed mat to control grass etc around the bases of the trees, and I have been thinking of "tree spirals" but I don't know if they'll work in practical terms on the species mentioned.

CJhaughey

Thinking outside the box here JG, I planted some Sea-Buckthorn about 3 yrs ago, and while some have stayed fairly short 3-4ft one plant must be close to 18ft now! They are tough plants with good thorns that stop browsing.
The berries are edible and actually very very nutritious and they are hardy.
They would make pretty good windbreak plants and won't be grazed to nothing by the sheep.

jmkennedyie

For species check out the local hedges too to see what can handle the soil.

FutureForests sell bareroot in bulk. They do whatever mixes you want...could give advice by phone too. I hear that autumn is slightly better time to plant than spring as the roots have a chance to develop a little before the winter.

See following page, scroll down for some hedge mixes. They have posted to me and was happy out with them.

http://futureforests.net/br_hedging.htm

Cul a cnoic

John, like yourself, am beside the sea, I have bogland right up to the lawn. have been trying to grow the nicer trees/shrubs but to no avail. Started 2 years ago planting the hardier varities like hawthorn/ blackthorn/ whitethorn/ willow/ ash etc and they are catching well. I bought all bare root from here in Co Down, but it will be Autumn again before you see the website fill out as these varities will not be available now.

I would do quite a bit of hill walking and if I came across a sapling, would dig it up, bring it home and set it. As for willow, take a cutting and plant it in the ground and it will more than likely catch.

One thing that I have not planted, but it pops up everywhere around here is the Whin bush (Gorse/Furze/Whin). I would imagine that this would suit you well, its sheep proof and offers good shelter while not growing very tall. And I don't think the hares would be interested in it either.

googsy

You should take a look around your general locality and see what trees do well there... I've relations in Galway and there seems to be loads of hazel, hawthorn, common alder, ash, spindle etc..

Coillte is a good place to get bulk amounts of trees... only thing is they have both native and imported varieties from Holland. Future Forests is a good place too as the trees are of high standard and are cheap if purchased in bulk. Bareroot is a better option than container based plants as they usually have a better root structure and are easier to plant when you have a load of them. ( you just get a spade, make two cuts, insert the tree, firm it down with your foot and if they are big that they are supported against the wind blowing them from side to side ) You don't need to put in any manure or anything like that, just make sure they are protected in the early years from Rabbits and that you firm them down with your foot later in spring after the frosts have gone.

Best of luck man.

johngalway

Took a few photos earlier on of some trees in the neighbours little wood. His place is lower down than mine so more sheltered, the land would also be a bit better than some of what I'm thinking of planting in.

johngalway

CJhaughey wrote: »

Thinking outside the box here JG, I planted some Sea-Buckthorn about 3 yrs ago, and while some have stayed fairly short 3-4ft one plant must be close to 18ft now! They are tough plants with good thorns that stop browsing.
The berries are edible and actually very very nutritious and they are hardy.
They would make pretty good windbreak plants and won't be grazed to nothing by the sheep.

I've not done much reading about sea buckthorn I must admit CJ, I'll give them a look after I do this post. 18 foot sounds a lot better than 4 mind lol.

jmkennedyie wrote: »

For species check out the local hedges too to see what can handle the soil.

FutureForests sell bareroot in bulk. They do whatever mixes you want...could give advice by phone too. I hear that autumn is slightly better time to plant than spring as the roots have a chance to develop a little before the winter.

See following page, scroll down for some hedge mixes. They have posted to me and was happy out with them.

http://futureforests.net/br_hedging.htm

Local woman that I shoot for also recommended Future Forests, they have a good site, I had a look earlier on. I'm going over to her for a chat about it all during the week, was only on the phone earlier.

Cul a cnoic wrote: »

John, like yourself, am beside the sea, I have bogland right up to the lawn. have been trying to grow the nicer trees/shrubs but to no avail. Started 2 years ago planting the hardier varities like hawthorn/ blackthorn/ whitethorn/ willow/ ash etc and they are catching well. I bought all bare root from here in Co Down, but it will be Autumn again before you see the website fill out as these varities will not be available now.

I would do quite a bit of hill walking and if I came across a sapling, would dig it up, bring it home and set it. As for willow, take a cutting and plant it in the ground and it will more than likely catch.

One thing that I have not planted, but it pops up everywhere around here is the Whin bush (Gorse/Furze/Whin). I would imagine that this would suit you well, its sheep proof and offers good shelter while not growing very tall. And I don't think the hares would be interested in it either.

Lol, before the start of the nesting season I was busy cutting down damned furze I've a bit too much of it at the moment so I can't say I'll be planting any Though it does do as you say

googsy wrote: »

You should take a look around your general locality and see what trees do well there... I've relations in Galway and there seems to be loads of hazel, hawthorn, common alder, ash, spindle etc..

Coillte is a good place to get bulk amounts of trees... only thing is they have both native and imported varieties from Holland. Future Forests is a good place too as the trees are of high standard and are cheap if purchased in bulk. Bareroot is a better option than container based plants as they usually have a better root structure and are easier to plant when you have a load of them. ( you just get a spade, make two cuts, insert the tree, firm it down with your foot and if they are big that they are supported against the wind blowing them from side to side ) You don't need to put in any manure or anything like that, just make sure they are protected in the early years from Rabbits and that you firm them down with your foot later in spring after the frosts have gone.

Best of luck man.

Cheers for that, bareroot was also suggested to me, seems to be the way to go

All the replies have been very informative for me, thanks to all posting and hopefully more will continue to roll in

The idea is only yet in the beginning but my goal would be to have a fair few trees about the place, I think of them pretty much as "top cover" not to shade anything out but to give high shelter. Hedges may come later on, but at the moment I can't afford the double fencing that's needed to establish/protect them and split the land into paddocks.

recedite

Ash is very quick and hardy. Grown in swathes close together it grows straight and coppices for excellent firewood, or sell it for hurleys, and seems to grow well locally judging by your photos.

Rinker

Teagasc have lots of information on their website about hedgerows. Just google hedgerow teagasc and a lot of fact sheets come up. Heres the one on selecting plants. www.teagasc.ie/.../hedging/selection.establishment.factsheet_2.pdf -

boatbuilder

Its been a tough year on young trees due to the extreme wind last week.
My site is pretty exposed and 430 ft above sea level, near Shercock Co. Cavan and my trees got a real blasting with the wind and the extreme cold this year.
Interesting to see that most of the species I've planted are affected in some way by the adverse weather.

Only ones not to have been affected seem to be the beech, hornbeam, horse chestnut.
Downy birch had branches broken in the wind and trees almost ripped out of the ground (i.e tilted over)
Red alder tilted over.
White poplar lots and lots of large branches broken off in the wind
Irish oak - tips of branches have died off
Mountain ash - some of them snapped in half in the wind (probably would have been ok if it wasn't staked)
Eucalyptus - died due to cold
Scots pine - bent over in the wind
Curly willow - tips died off

johngalway

Digging this thread up again

With kind thanks to Reilig I now have a number of Willow plants in the ground. Just waiting on some protectors to arrive before I can let the sheep into that part of the farm again. I am thinking of buying some timber fence rails from the local supply centre as supports. I can cut into lengths, then run them through the table saw, might get 12 odd shaped stakes out of a €5 something rail, thoughts?

Saw a nifty idea on a Canadian site, bit of wire put through old/cheap water hose yo use as a tie, might get away with baling twine ( ) but it'd be more prone to rotting.

I have ordered some ash and alder trees, also those rabbit protectors - have no rabbits mind, but am hoping they'll work on sheep too.

That'll be it for a time, maybe until this time next year unless I get a notion...

I have in mind to then put in some Hazel, Hawthorn, Downy Birch, and Holly in the next "wave".

I'd like to take a punt on some Sessile Oaks as well, not many, 5 or so, just to see if they'd make out. I'd like an Oak tree or five

Sort of making it up as I go along with all the kind help I'm receiving on here

Kess73

Pyrachanta can make for excellent boundary plants and will block strong winds. They will also stop animals from roaming, and have the added bonus of making great nest sites for birds and providing loads of food for birds.

Also the Pomes (berries) are not poisonous despite many thinking they are, and it is a great source of food for bees when it flowers.

Brillant plant to have as well if you want an added line of defense around your land to prevent two legged intruders.


Pyrachanta, Whitethorn, or blackthorn would be my picks to grow in an open site that is exposed to strong winds.

recedite

johngalway wrote: »

I am thinking of buying some timber fence rails from the local supply centre as supports. I can cut into lengths,

I wouldn't use long stakes; its better to tie a newly planted tree to a short support about 1 foot off the ground, just so the roots don't shake. Then it develops its own strength in the trunk. Use strips of rubber inner tube to tie with. Don't buy treated timber; sharpen up some straight old branches instead. You don't want toxins leaking into the soil, and you don't want the stake to last more than 2 or 3 years.

boatbuilder wrote: »

Mountain ash - some of them snapped in half in the wind (probably would have been ok if it wasn't staked)

See what I mean!

thyme

johngalway wrote: »

Digging this thread up again

With kind thanks to Reilig I now have a number of Willow plants in the ground. Just waiting on some protectors to arrive before I can let the sheep into that part of the farm again. I am thinking of buying some timber fence rails from the local supply centre as supports. I can cut into lengths, then run them through the table saw, might get 12 odd shaped stakes out of a €5 something rail, thoughts?

Saw a nifty idea on a Canadian site, bit of wire put through old/cheap water hose yo use as a tie, might get away with baling twine ( ) but it'd be more prone to rotting.

I have ordered some ash and alder trees, also those rabbit protectors - have no rabbits mind, but am hoping they'll work on sheep too.

That'll be it for a time, maybe until this time next year unless I get a notion...

I have in mind to then put in some Hazel, Hawthorn, Downy Birch, and Holly in the next "wave".

I'd like to take a punt on some Sessile Oaks as well, not many, 5 or so, just to see if they'd make out. I'd like an Oak tree or five

Sort of making it up as I go along with all the kind help I'm receiving on here

You have been well advised on what plants to buy, just look around and see what's doing well in your area.

What I will say to you is don't waste your money on those plastic rabbit protectors, if you want to protect your plants from hares and sheep.

Hares will just reach over them, and sheep will just knock them off, or walk all over them, and remember the wind .

If you can, buy a roll of chicken wire and make your protectors, and keep the circle of wire well away from the plant, 2 or 3 foot should do it, four or five pieces of waste wood to pin it down.