A GENUINE appeal? need advice!

limitlezz

Hi people,

I could use some advice regarding an irishrail DART appeal here as I believe that it is not a matter of paying the fine, its a matter of the irish rail facilities being in order, in regards to purchasing tickets.

Fine was 150 euro plus a ticket fare of 2.40 euro, so a total of 152.40 euro.

I purchased my ticket like I always do, at around 05.55am-06.05am in the ticket machines inside Dublin Connolly train station. I purchased a return ticket to Leixlip Louisa Bridge for 4.40 euro, and I paid with 4x 10 euro cent and one 20 euro bill. I was given back change of 16 euro in two euro coins.

I approached the “checkpoint machines” that validates the ticket and put the ticket it in the ticket slot. Nothing happened. The ticket was not approved nor was it given back to me. I waited for several moments to see what was going on and if the ticket was going to be returned to me or approved, but still nothing happened. I was then looking for the inspector/train station employee who normally sits at the barrier gate to ask for his help, but there was no one there to ask. The next three days there still weren't anyone there.

Anyway, I went through the gate since there was nobody to ask for help and with no ticket since I thought that I would explain myself on the return journey later on the day. Surely it cant be my problem if I purchase a ticket and the machine swallows it. Those machines simply just have to be in a working order. I cant hang around at Connolly all day.

I wrote an appeal writing that they should check their CCTV recordings from that specific time, and that they would see a 6ft5 guy in a blue hoodie trying to get out his stuck ticket.

They said I had 21 days to pay the fine. Tomorrow is the last day. I appealed it 3 weeks ago but there has been no answer from them at all.

What to do? should I pay it? Really feel like I dont want to go to court but at the same time its not really my fault?

Kind regards!

Cookie_Monster

pay the fine but continue to appeal, that way you avoid the hassle and expense of having to go to court.

BANZAI_RUNNER

ok you have 2 choices,
option 1 , pay the fine .
Ordinarily I would advise to do this, and then continue with your appeal, BUT you will be relying on them to consider your appeal , and will be at their mercy, and if they then decide not to up hold your appeal then your only avenue is to go the legal route.
option 2 , dont pay and go to court.
This one is a bit drastic, but at least you will get a fair hearing , because as you already contacted them to appeal the fine , and they told you that you had 21 days to pay just shows that they are not entertaining your appeal. So once you go before the court and can show that you did everything you could to show your innocence , they would then have to check their cctv etc and quite possibly you may win

I'm sure if you spoke with a solicitor and explained to him/her what you put in your original post they will advise you what to do, but as time is short i would suggest you try to contact one as soon as possible , and have a contact number for him/her to be able to contact whoever issued the fine

BrianD

It's an odd one.

If the OP has made an appeal, he/she in entitled to a response one way or the other. It's not their fault that IR haven't responded.

The problem is really when did they get nabbed? The outward or the inward journey? If the return journey then the grounds for appeal are diminished. they should have bought a new ticket and wrote a claim for the original.

However, the OP is entitled to a response and they should have got one in the time frame.

BANZAI_RUNNER

BrianD wrote: »

It's an odd one.

If the OP has made an appeal, he/she in entitled to a response one way or the other. It's not their fault that IR haven't responded.

The problem is really when did they get nabbed? The outward or the inward journey? If the return journey then the grounds for appeal are diminished. they should have bought a new ticket and wrote a claim for the original.

However, the OP is entitled to a response and they should have got one in the time frame.

I agree , but they have decided not to , so thats why i was suggesting that he contact a solicitor as soon as possible , because he does have a good case against them

DoesNotCompute

limitlezz wrote: »

Hi people,

I could use some advice regarding an irishrail DART appeal here as I believe that it is not a matter of paying the fine, its a matter of the irish rail facilities being in order, in regards to purchasing tickets.

Fine was 150 euro plus a ticket fare of 2.40 euro, so a total of 152.40 euro.

I purchased my ticket like I always do, at around 05.55am-06.05am in the ticket machines inside Dublin Connolly train station. I purchased a return ticket to Leixlip Louisa Bridge for 4.40 euro, and I paid with 4x 10 euro cent and one 20 euro bill. I was given back change of 16 euro in two euro coins.

I approached the “checkpoint machines” that validates the ticket and put the ticket it in the ticket slot. Nothing happened. The ticket was not approved nor was it given back to me. I waited for several moments to see what was going on and if the ticket was going to be returned to me or approved, but still nothing happened. I was then looking for the inspector/train station employee who normally sits at the barrier gate to ask for his help, but there was no one there to ask. The next three days there still weren't anyone there.

Anyway, I went through the gate since there was nobody to ask for help and with no ticket since I thought that I would explain myself on the return journey later on the day. Surely it cant be my problem if I purchase a ticket and the machine swallows it. Those machines simply just have to be in a working order. I cant hang around at Connolly all day.

I wrote an appeal writing that they should check their CCTV recordings from that specific time, and that they would see a 6ft5 guy in a blue hoodie trying to get out his stuck ticket.

They said I had 21 days to pay the fine. Tomorrow is the last day. I appealed it 3 weeks ago but there has been no answer from them at all.

What to do? should I pay it? Really feel like I dont want to go to court but at the same time its not really my fault?

Kind regards!

Hardly surprising, tbh. Irish Rail seem to be cracking down hard on so-called "fare evaders" over the last few years. They've even established a "Revenue Protection" department. What really irks me is that they really couldn't care less if (a) their checkpoint wasn't in working order or (b) that there was no staff member at the gate to assist you. All they really care about is extracting the maximum amount of money out of the users of their service.

There is little chance they are going to review their CCTV tapes, or even answer your appeal to be frank.

Good luck with your appeal, you have my sympathies, although I don't expect you'll get an answer from them.

LXFlyer

Ring them up and ask about the appeal would be my advice.

lucernarian

I second ringing up and asking about the appeal.

With regards to court, if they were really concerned with your case they would have seen your appeal by now when deciding whether to take you to court and would have responded before doing anything along the lines of a court summons. I think it's safe to assume that a person has to see your case to decide on a court hearing and that it's not an automated process:) Therefore I would call Irish Rail or indeed post the appeal again but I wouldn't pay that fine.

D'Peoples Voice

limitlezz wrote: »

I was then looking for the inspector/train station employee who normally sits at the barrier gate to ask for his help, but there was no one there to ask. The next three days there still weren't anyone there.

you're a patient person :rolleyes:

steamengine

Is there a problem with the ticket barriers at Connolly ? I was waved through the barriers on the 28th April round midday and remember asking the ticket man was there a problem with the gates as I tried to insert the ticket unsuccessfully. I didn't get an answer just kinda ' go on you're alright ' type of response. I don't commute regularly - the reason I know the date is because I took some pics on my camera and the date is recorded.

n97 mini

BANZAI_RUNNER wrote: »

I'm sure if you spoke with a solicitor and explained to him/her what you put in your original post they will advise you what to do, but as time is short i would suggest you try to contact one as soon as possible , and have a contact number for him/her to be able to contact whoever issued the fine

Problem with that is solicitors would charge more than the fine.

foggy_lad

steamengine wrote: »

Is there a problem with the ticket barriers at Connolly ? I was waved through the barriers on the 28th April round midday and remember asking the ticket man was there a problem with the gates as I tried to insert the ticket unsuccessfully. I didn't get an answer just kinda ' go on you're alright ' type of response. I don't commute regularly - the reason I know the date is because I took some pics on my camera and the date is recorded.

Not just in Connolly! The machines are always malfunctioning but there is usually someone there to wave you through or in Connolly they leave the gate open which in itself could be construed as being waved through by virtue of the gate being open as opposed to the attendant leaving it closed till they return.

limitlezz

Hi guys,

I actually called them twice yesterday and they then said that they couldnt find the fine in the computer, but that they would look into it and get back to me. 2 hours later I received a call and they said that they checked their CCTV surveilance recordings and confirmed that there was a stuck ticket in the machine. They also confirmed that my return ticket to Leixlip was purchased at the time I gave them, with the amount of money I put into the machine.

They said they would withdraw everything right away and that I didnt have to pay anything, so that is a real relief!

I really appreciate your answers though and I probably would have contacted a solicitor if they hadnt responded, but luckily they did!

limitlezz

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

you're a patient person :rolleyes:

Haha, well my point was that I check it every day and in 6 out of 7 days there arent any guy sitting there in the early mornings, and I explained to the wannabe policeman from the "Revenue Protection Unit" that its not really my fault that they are understaffed with faulty machinery, but he wouldnt have any of it. He kept insisting that "you must have a ticket on the train", and I just said well do you expect me to buy the ticket twice just because your machines dont work? and he said yes.

I cant take them seriously. Hopefully these things dont happen too often

REXER

Great result then.

Just make sure that you keep all the details of who you spoke to, when and what everone said.

Gillo

Get them to send you out a letter confirming why they said in case it doesn't get cancelled. Nice to hear you got sorted though.

brendanL

.... the ticket getting stuck is a regular problem for myself for as long as I can remember taking the train, I even remember my sister who went to college a good few years before me talking about it. The machines have eaten my ticket a load of times... especially my monthly one, but it got so bad that near the end of each month... it would eat it.. and the guy at the gate would recognise me and just let me through no matter as I had to talk to him like every time during the first few times it was eaten.

bk

The sooner they move to the rfid cards for all tickets the better.

It will at least solve this problem.

Getting a smart card with the epurse will avoid this issue.

AlekSmart

bk wrote: »

The sooner they move to the rfid cards for all tickets the better.

It will at least solve this problem.

Getting a smart card with the epurse will avoid this issue.

I'm less certain that I would be so emphatic....."may" avoid this issue perhaps...

I've had too many instances,one such this morning,of brand spanking new rfid Smart Card tickets not reading.....Nothing...Nowt..Nada..

In this moring's case a group of foreign visitors boared with five tickets going through but the 6th failing....nothing being read on either scanner.

In this case I despatched the lady back into the shop,where she accquired a replacement which functioned normally.

The incidence of rfid failure is still small,but it's still occuring,and that is something which cannot be allowed spiral out of control....:)

bk

AlekSmart wrote: »

The incidence of rfid failure is still small,but it's still occuring,and that is something which cannot be allowed spiral out of control....:)

Agreed, but it should be less problematic as there are no moving parts involved.

Plus it completely eliminates the problem of having your monthly/annual card getting eaten.

BrianD

BANZAI_RUNNER wrote: »

I agree , but they have decided not to , so thats why i was suggesting that he contact a solicitor as soon as possible , because he does have a good case against them

The proper procedure should be a letter confirming receipt of the appeal letter and then a follow on letter saying whether it was upheld or not.

I don't think it's fair to take a "no reply" as a "rejection".

Victor

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'm less certain that I would be so emphatic....."may" avoid this issue perhaps...

I've had too many instances,one such this morning,of brand spanking new rfid Smart Card tickets not reading.....Nothing...Nowt..Nada..

In this moring's case a group of foreign visitors boared with five tickets going through but the 6th failing....nothing being read on either scanner.

In this case I despatched the lady back into the shop,where she accquired a replacement which functioned normally.

The incidence of rfid failure is still small,but it's still occuring,and that is something which cannot be allowed spiral out of control....:)

In fairness, of all the smart cards I've had, the problems are invariably at the user / interface end. Typically a mis-presented card (too little time, not close enough to card reader, etc.) or coins in the wallet.

Shops shouldn't replace cards - its a prime source of fraud. Passengers should go to Dublin Bus, although that can be inconvenient.