Portrayal of the Atheist/Agnostic and Skeptic in Works of Fiction and Art..

Turtwig

Most people here have quoted House, perhaps others here will eventually quote the Mentalist in the future. Both characters are skeptics and I believe atheist/agnostic (I don't really watch House tbh) however they are always portrayed as smug, arrogant gits. I don't know about House, but the Mentalist is actually decent in that it is (so far anyways) sticking to the line that Psychics who claim to have powers are full of ****. Other TV shows e.g Lie To Me, Psych go out of their way to balance this stuff with entertaining Conspiracy Theories, psychics, elements of the supernatural as plausible and real. The only exceptions I've seen thus far to the arrogant like git stereotype are the loveable Britta and Jeff of Community. Both are actually, unique. That said, I do very much like that a mainstream show like the Mentalist, even if he does come across as a smug, knocks just about every piece of pseudo crap with aplomb.

So AA'ers in your opinion is it good that there are more and more atheists character being used as plot devices in major mainstream shows in the US? Or is the overly reliant stereotype helping to feed common misconceptions of atheists,agnostics and skeptics in general? Also, anyone got any examples of other popular atheists or skeptics in films,tv shows etc. and their portrayal? This is the thread to list those awesome character moments.:D

Doctor DooM

Apparently the main character in Firefly (who is eminantly likable) is atheist.

I can't recall seeing him say it though.

Turtwig

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Apparently the main character in Firefly (who is eminantly likable) is atheist.

I can't recall seeing him say it though.

What about River?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqKlSldlSDE

Seloth

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Apparently the main character in Firefly (who is eminantly likable) is atheist.

I can't recall seeing him say it though.

He lost his faith during the war,as at the start in the very first episode he kisses a cross.(Joh Whedon does plan out these things and it wasn't a mere throw away)

Zombrex

Joss Wheldon (creator of Firefly, Buffy, Angel, Dollhouse, various film scripts such as Alien 4) on atheism. Pretty funny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EReyF2ZzXGA

Turtwig

Wow!:eek: I just found out I'm an absurdist, well...sorta, never heard of that definition until now (and neither has my spellchecker.:D).

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Mark Hamill

I find that these shows, even more than the arrogant/smug git stereotype, tend to portray atheists/agnostics as either secretly depressed (House, The Mentalist) or socially retarded (Bones, Sheldon from Big Bang Theory), as if being atheist means you are unable to appreciate things in life.

There is a list of fictitious atheists/agnostics on wikipedia, but its short and I dont think Dean Winchester from Supernatural is atheist (not anymore anyway ).

mikhail

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Apparently the main character in Firefly (who is eminantly likable) is atheist.

I can't recall seeing him say it though.

He's hostile towards the priest on the ship. From the pilot episode,
Book: Captain, you mind if I say grace?
Mal: Only if you say it out loud.
I think there are better examples too, but I can't quote the show from memory!

The film sequel to the show, Serenity, has a character arc for him involving belief. Initially, he's asked by a friend to believe in something, explicitly not God. The implication is that he's been essentially rudderless for some time. By the end of the film, he has something he believes in - a matter of justice.
"You really believe that?"
Mal, "I do."
"You willing to die for that belief?"
Mal, "I am."

They go for their guns. Mal is faster. "Of course, that ain't exactly plan A..."

Admiral Adama from the new Battlestar Galactica was at least an atheist.

Unfortunately he was wrong in that universe.

mikhail

Malty_T wrote: »

So AA'ers in your opinion is it good that there are more and more atheists character being used as plot devices in major mainstream shows in the US? Or is the overly reliant stereotype helping to feed common misconceptions of atheists,agnostics and skeptics in general?

It's a very interesting question. I haven't seen The Mentalist, so I'm reluctant to make sweeping statements.

Regarding House, I'm not sure it's as simple as he's an asshole atheist. Yes, in one episode, he'll be utterly contemptuous of a faith healer, but in another he'll speak about faith in a respectful, thoughtful fashion, like the scene which lead to my sig, in which he says that he believes that there is no afterlife because the evidence isn't conclusive and he believes what is more comforting to him. Also, asshole or not, he's the character the audience loves.

Also, anyone got any examples of other popular atheists or skeptics in films,tv shows etc. and their portrayal? This is the thread to list those awesome character moments.:D

Off the top of my head, the earliest skeptic I can recall in TV is the X-Files' Scully. Granted, I think she was a non-practising Christian (I have a fuzzy memory of her going to confession, where she says it's been some years since she last went), but she was always looking for the rational explanation in the face of Mulder's flights of fancy. Certainly, Mulder was the more sympathetic character, but I think audiences found Scully likeable too.

Galvasean

Mark Hamill wrote: »

There is a list of fictitious atheists/agnostics on wikipedia,

"Jen Lindley (played by Michelle Williams), from the American primetime television drama Dawson's Creek"
Awwww yeahhhhh............. :pac:

Atheist superheros:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/12/atheist_superheroes_saving_the.php
(It's just plain weird)

Turtwig

mikhail wrote: »

It's a very interesting question. I haven't seen The Mentalist, so I'm reluctant to make sweeping statements.

Regarding House, I'm not sure it's as simple as he's an asshole atheist. Yes, in one episode, he'll be utterly contemptuous of a faith healer, but in another he'll speak about faith in a respectful, thoughtful fashion, like the scene which lead to my sig, in which he says that he believes that there is no afterlife because the evidence isn't conclusive and he believes what is more comforting to him. Also, asshole or not, he's the character the audience loves.


Off the top of my head, the earliest skeptic I can recall in TV is the X-Files' Scully. Granted, I think she was a non-practising Christian (I have a fuzzy memory of her going to confession, where she says it's been some years since she last went), but she was always looking for the rational explanation in the face of Mulder's flights of fancy. Certainly, Mulder was the more sympathetic character, but I think audiences found Scully likeable too.

Ahh I didn't realise House that compassionate. With regards to Scully, in all honesty she's a ****ing idiot for a skeptic. The stuff was going on all around and she's like "No it can't be". That's what you call pseudoskepticism or denialism.

branie

Jodie Foster's character in Contact is an atheist

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

The protaganist of The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists which I'm reading at the moment, is an atheist.

Edit: So far hes been portrayed as the 'only sane man'. Very sympathetic and likable character.

AhSureTisGrand

Isn't Holden Caulfield in The Catcher in the Rye atheist? I guess this means atheists killed John Lennon

strobe

The protagonist of Terry Pratchett's 'Nation', Mau (heh, never noticed the name before) goes from being a polytheist to an agnostic to an atheist with a very unforgiving view of religion over the course of the novel.

{The Golem Dorfl from the Discworld novels is also an atheist (being resistant to lightning bolt strikes helps).

Tyler Durden out of Fight Club is a Marxist, so probably an atheist, but I don't think it explicitly mentions his religious beliefs in the book.

Takeshi Kovacs from the Altered Carbon trilogy of sci-fi novels by Richard Morgan is an outspoken atheist and mentions it a few times.

Brian Griffin, the dog in the Family Guy cartoon is an atheist.

Father Jack from Father Ted once told Dougal he didn't even believe in God.

Turtwig

Guys I think a few of you are missing the point of this thread. It's not about listing atheists in works of fiction or art. It's about how they are portrayed in that work. Are they scumbags, sound people, arrogant, lazy etc. ?

strobe

Malty_T wrote: »

Guys I think a few of you are missing the point of this thread. It's not about listing atheists in works of fiction or art. It's about how they are portrayed in that work. Are they scumbags, sound people, arrogant, lazy etc. ?

Yes teacher.

Mau - Portrayed very well. Loyal, resilient, very accepting of people that are different and strives to get people to work together despite their different backgrounds etc.

Dorfl - Again is portrayed pretty well. Fights authoritarianism and champions individual liberty and freedoms. Has to deal with a very outspoken theist by the name of Corporal Jakkass Visit constantly trying to convert him but always responds in a very non-confrontational way.

Tyler Durden - You all seen the movie even if you haven't read the book. He's the man, takes no sh1t from nobody.

Takeshi Kovacs - He's a former government black ops scumbag who defected and went into a load of illegal stuff. I guess you can imagine how the character is portrayed.

Brian Griffin - Your basic lefty liberal atheist pseudo-intellectual drunken womaniser.

Father Jack - Your basic Irish priest stereotype, minus the kiddie fiddling.

Turtwig

strobe wrote: »

Yes teacher.

Now, now don't you be taking that tone up with me.

johnny_ultimate

36 Arguments for the Existence of God is a curious read about an academic who makes his name writing a popular atheist manifesto of sorts. It's probably better as a scathing dissection of academia, but it's quite a funny read and nice to have a book totally focused around an atheist who is a fully realised and likable character.

Douglas Adams (serious RIP to the man), while not necessarily having strictly atheist characters, was a damn fine purveyor of humorous atheism throughout his work. Nice to see issues of atheism tackled casually, which tbh is how it probably should be!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcncPpQ8loA

jill_valentine

mikhail wrote: »

Off the top of my head, the earliest skeptic I can recall in TV is the X-Files' Scully. Granted, I think she was a non-practising Christian (I have a fuzzy memory of her going to confession, where she says it's been some years since she last went), but she was always looking for the rational explanation in the face of Mulder's flights of fancy. Certainly, Mulder was the more sympathetic character, but I think audiences found Scully likeable too.

[Nerd]

There was actually a kind of role reversal in any of the Christian religious episodes - Scully was more inclined to believe in miracles than Mulder despite her scientific eye in other contexts, and there were a couple of "Scully" episodes that focused on Christian, and mainly Catholic, mythology.

[/Nerd]

Funny enough, Scully's most direct descendant is probably Brennan from Bones, and she's probably one of the most sympathetic atheists in mainstream entertainment I can think of. She's an atheist because that's just how the character is, it makes sense for her.

I mean, there's a lot of back and forth with the other characters about their own religious standpoints for comic effect, but the show doesn't really go out of it's way to show her the "error" of her ways. One episode worked up to a conclusion that in a hopeless situation, she does have faith of a sort, in her friends, and that's all she needs. Was quite neat.

Turtwig

I give an episode of Bones a shot then sometime.

jill_valentine

It's a fairly standard procedural, so it follows a fairly standard procedure of Red Herring -> Red Herring -> THAT GUY! every week, but I like it. Gone off the boil a bit lately though, the lame peripheral characters have started getting far too much screentime, and they've invested far too much in Brennan/ Booth will they/won't they tension. They're a neat double act, but I kind of prefer their workplace bromance to the old Moonlighting chestnut.

Still though-

Brennan: It's a religion, no crazier than... well, what are you?

Booth: Catholic.

Brennan: They believe in the same saints you do... in prayer... what they call spells, you call miracles... they have priests...

Booth: We don't make zombies.

Brennan: Jesus rose from the dead in three days.

[Booth looks at her in shock. Brennan picks up her phone]

Brennan: Brennan?

Booth, hysterical: Jesus is not a zombie!

Galvasean

Galvasean wrote: »

Atheist superheros:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/12/atheist_superheroes_saving_the.php
(It's just plain weird)

[Nerd]
Those characters were both created by Grant Morrison. The issue that panel is from was sort of a tribute to his work at Marvel.
[/Nerd]
The statement: "Proves the non-existence of deities" looks a bit stupid when you've personally met one and there's a city of them hovering about in Ohio.

Fantomex is a smug super thief who currently works on the secret death squad division of the X-Men.
Marvel Boy/Noh-Varr/Protector once declared war on the entire human race, though he is now in the Avengers.
Neither are particularly good role models.

The is one proper superhero who is an atheist, but unfortunatly he is pretty lame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Terrific_%28Michael_Holt%29

jill_valentine

Does Preacher count as an atheist? You know, after?

Turtwig

jill_valentine wrote: »

Does Preacher count as an atheist? You know, after?

Who?

jill_valentine

Sorry, a Garth Ennis comic book character.

He starts out as a preacher, and after a very epic adventure, there's a conclusion that I won't spoil but does make the question of whether or not he's an atheist character a uniquely tricky one.

Turtwig

jill_valentine wrote: »

Sorry, a Garth Ennis comic book character.

He starts out as a preacher, and after a very epic adventure, there's a conclusion that I won't spoil but does make the question of whether or not he's an atheist character a uniquely tricky one.

I'm never going to read that comic, would you mind spoiling it and elaborating on what you mean by PM?

jill_valentine

I heartily recommend it, it's a quite gleefully blasphemous Western romp, but I'll go ahead anyway. This is from memory, so if I'm wrong, somebody correct me.

The character, Jesse Custer, has his faith in God both confirmed and soured after his congregation is wiped out. He sets out to take his revenge and make God answer for himself.

After a very convoluted adventure involving angels, demons, the inbred descendents of Christ and the patron saint of murderers, he finally meets the Big Guy, who explains that he created the world and everything in it because he was lonely, and wanted something to love him.

Long story short, Custer eventually has God killed.

So, on the one hand, he actually encounters God. But on the other hand, he now knows he's dead.

So... I'm not really sure where that leaves him?

Turtwig

jill_valentine wrote: »

I heartily recommend it, it's a quite gleefully blasphemous Western romp, but I'll go ahead anyway. This is from memory, so if I'm wrong, somebody correct me.

The character, Jesse Custer, has his faith in God both confirmed and soured after his congregation is wiped out. He sets out to take his revenge and make God answer for himself.

After a very convoluted adventure involving angels, demons, the inbred descendents of Christ and the patron saint of murderers, he finally meets the Big Guy, who explains that he created the world and everything in it because he was lonely, and wanted something to love him.

Long story short, Custer eventually has God killed.

So, on the one hand, he actually encounters God. But on the other hand, he now knows he's dead.

So... I'm not really sure where that leaves him?

That sounds like a ****ing epic comic! I guess 1984 can wait another year.:D

He's an atheist, he killed God and now he lacks belief that God exists, because he knows the deity doesn't .

branie

Brian from Family Guy is also atheist as well

Ridley

Scrubs' Dr. Cox (I know it was in the Wikipedia link I'm just posting examples):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfq80b500hY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zChxv5i34CM

Think I got them in chronological order.

CerebralCortex

I feel nauseous again.

bnt

In the TV series The West Wing, President Bartlet (Martin Sheen) is a Catholic throughout, but only because Sheen is a Catholic and the writers hadn't thought to give the character a religion at first. Not that he doesn't have his moments, such as swearing at God in Latin in the Washington National Cathedral after a funeral.

Near the end of the series, when the elections for his successor are looming, the Republican candidate Arnold Vinick (Alan Alda) is an atheist who get annoyed at all the questions about religion. He goes to the White House to talk to the President about a legislative matter, which is sorted quickly, so they head to the kitchen for some ice cream. What happens next illustrates why I think The West Wing is one of the greatest series to ever appear on television:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulk3hDwxnmg

Turtwig

bnt wrote: »

In the TV series The West Wing, President Bartlet (Martin Sheen) is a Catholic throughout, but only because Sheen is a Catholic and the writers hadn't thought to give the character a religion at first. Not that he doesn't have his moments, such as swearing at God in Latin in the Washington National Cathedral after a funeral.

Near the end of the series, when the elections for his successor are looming, the Republican candidate Arnold Vinick (Alan Alda) is an atheist who get annoyed at all the questions about religion. He goes to the White House to talk to the President about a legislative matter, which is sorted quickly, so they head to the kitchen for some ice cream. What happens next illustrates why I think The West Wing is one of the greatest series to ever appear on television:
<youtube>

In Real Life though Fox news would just tear Vinick's world apart. Probably long before he even makes the primaries.

MagicMarker

Just watched an episode of Brotherhood, the conversation went like this (paraphrased)

Michael: You had your kids baptised right?

Freddie: Of course

Michael: So... you believe in God?

Freddie: No

Michael: So why you baptise 'em?

Freddie: Because I'm a catholic, that's what catholics do.

silent sage

I've just seen this thread now and thought I'd add a track from the album 'Tunnel Blanket', the latest release (May 10th of this year) from the outstanding (personal opinion) Texan instrumental rock band This Will Destroy You. They typically compose lengthy atmospheric instrumental pieces, featuring layers of effects-laden guitar and a heavy usage of dynamics. What makes their latest release relevant to this thread is their choice of track title 'Killed the Lord, Left for the New World' and the uniquely inserted sound bite on the album's final track 'Hand Powdered'.
I find it interesting because they have never used lyrics or sound bites in any of their previous releases, nor had they ever alluded to any religious/spiritual slant in their choice of track titles before. Of course being an enthusiast of their music, ideally I'd prefer someone to listen to the whole album to get the full effect, but the final track set to footage from BBC's Wonders of the Solar System is, in my opinion, beautiful in itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMxuVogs69w

*It's also coincidental for me because I remember posting the track 'Threads', off their self-titled album, in this forum when a thread had gone off the rails somewhat, and it was suggested (by Galvasean, if I remember correctly) to post some tunes as a kind of interlude of sorts

Robert ninja

Any skeptics depicted in Clive Barker's movies is useless to helping anyone and then killed. Even the chick from Jericho (game) who says, "I'm an atheist," is exploded into mince seconds later.

Beruthiel

Malty_T wrote: »

I guess 1984 can wait another year.:D

No.
No it can't.
Read it.