pull-ups and dips

joseywhales

Hi,

I started doing some strength training about two months ago and I like my routine, I'm comfortable with it but for a few parts that I'm looking for advise on.

I've become a little obsessed with pull-ups and dips, without actually doing any, HA!

I look at the apparatus everyday and think about doing it, wish I could do it. The truth is I fail after 4 reps of each.

Every other barbell excercise, which is all I do really apart from core, I can progressively increase the weight and get stronger but I feel I'm missing out with pull-ups and dips. I can't make myself lighter for a pullup and gradually build up to my body weight. I need to be able to do 8-10 reps of something and 4 reps feels like a waste of time, not to mention the lack of full arm extension and slight rocking.

So how can I build up to pull-ups and dips?
How do people normally do it or is everyone just naturally stronger than I am?
I understand that I start with a close grip because I have more strength close to my core but what i'm saying is that i can only do 4 reps at a time with that grip. Advise?

Mellor

joseywhales wrote: »

I can't make myself lighter for a pullup and gradually build up to my body weight. I need to be able to do 8-10 reps of something and 4 reps feels like a waste of time, not to mention the lack of full arm extension and slight rocking.

Well, you can't make yourself lighter, but you can make them easier.
assisted pull-up machines, somebody hold feet, or simply bands wrapped around feet.
I rather bands as they assist less the closer you get to the top, assisted machines provide uniform help.

As for the second part,
Why do you feel you need to do 8-10 reps? Why is 4 a waste of time. you are doing starting strength, do your barbell stuff is for 5 reps, right? And cleans are for 3 reps? so why not 4.

Because you can do some, and aren't just hanging here unable to do more than 1. i'd jsut keep going with them. You'll get to 5 on your first set soo, then 5 x 3, then 6 for one set, the 6 x 3 etc. it's a slow progression regardless.

Try doing some chin-ups (palms facing you) or neutral grip chin-ups (palms facing each other), they are slightly easier as the biceps contribute more.

You can also improve pull-ups by doing negatives, this is where you use a normal pull-up grip, and jump to the top position and lower slowly. Go easy as its easy to over do them. Maybe do 4 pull-up for 3 sets, then 3 sets of negatives

pmurphy00

is everyone just naturally stronger than I am?

no but everybody starts sumwhere and 4 aint bad
i used to be only able to do 1!
but i figured better do one than none..then one day i did two and so on.
better be the guy doing 4 reps then the guy saying damn
pull-ups are too hard im not doing them imo.

*nobody walks into a gym day one and does 10reps x 5 of pull ups


*awaits correction..:)

TommyKnocker

Get a decent over the door pull-up bar for home. Put it up somewhere you will pass a number of times a day and then every time you pass it knock out 2 or 3 pull-ups.

This will help you increase the number of pull-ups you can do in each set:)

mrpink6789

I've been doing 5X5 for a good 9 month and I'm still terrible at pull ups, they are my favourite exercise though because I'm so bad at them and want to improve! 4 is not a wast eof time, you will gradually move up if you keep at it.

d'Oracle

joseywhales wrote: »

So how can I build up to pull-ups and dips?
How do people normally do it or is everyone just naturally stronger than I am?
I understand that I start with a close grip because I have more strength close to my core but what i'm saying is that i can only do 4 reps at a time with that grip. Advise?

Do you do them in a gym or at home?

If you get a home pullup bar (like a doorway bar or something like that) and have two similar sturdy chairs that will take your weight you can do them at home.

If you can do 4, then do sets of 1-2 through out the day.
Like you could start with 4 and add a set every day.
Or you could just try and do a set every time you pass your bar or dip station.



If you do them at the gym just throw sets of 1 or 2 in between sets of other stuff. Pick a number and get there through as many sets of 1 or 2 as you need. Then next day you train, pick a bigger number.

Basically just get loads of reps done and test your max reps in a few weeks. If you burst out 6 or 7 then add a rep to your working sets.



I have read that getting your pushup and inverted rows up will help, but I have never tried it.

hidinginthebush

I had a bar set-up in my parents house which was great, I was able to drill it into the wall and could happily work away on them. But now I've moved out and am without a pull up bar. Can anyone recommend me a bar which I can get which will not damage my apartment and get me into trouble with my landlord?

Cheers!

Hanley

Training pull ups and dips to failure in the hopes of increasing them is one of the worst things you can do. You’d NEVER pick a 4 rep max on squats, bench or deadlift and do it every week and expect to see progress, so why do it with pull ups and dips?!

A good trick I picked up from the old Westside Barbell manuals was the along the lines of the following – if you can do 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, 15 or whatever number of reps in one all out set, you half it and do a high number of multiple sets.

So your progression might be:
Week 1 – 6 x2 twice per week (6 sets of 2 reps)
Week 2 – 8 x2 twice per week (8 set of 2 reps)
Week 3 – 10 x2 twice per week (10 sets of 2 reps)
Week 4 – Test (aim for 6-8 reps) and then repeat the process with your new max for another 3 weeks, number of sets stays the same, number of reps is half your new max, testing in week 8.

If you can do it more than 2x per week, you’ll see improvements faster. No single set should ever leave you COMPLETELY wiped. The last sets might start to get tougher, but you should never fail on them.

AntiVirus

Your well on your way if you can do 4, the biggest hurdle for a lot of people is getting to do one. Just keep doing them as has been said but at least one a week try to beat your max. I wouldn't bother with bands, you should only use them it you can't do any.

marathonic

Hanley wrote: »

So your progression might be:
Week 1 – 6 x2 twice per week (6 sets of 2 reps)
Week 2 – 8 x2 twice per week (8 set of 2 reps)
Week 3 – 10 x2 twice per week (10 sets of 2 reps)
Week 4 – Test (aim for 6-8 reps) and then repeat the process with your new max for another 3 weeks, number of sets stays the same, number of reps is half your new max, testing in week 8.

Thanks Hanley. I think I'm going to do this for my chinups and dips from now on - my chinups have been suffering lately and I'll get more volume in doing the above rather than 3 sets to failure. I haven't even attempted pullups yet - maybe when I hit a 15 rep max chinup

ferike1

+1 on the do a few each time you go past a bar. Static holds or really slow pull ups/chins also work great!

Also try varying your grip to work your back and arms differently. (closer grip, wider grip, palms facing away, palms facing you etc)

Justin1982

Pullups and Dips can be hard if you dont warm up the Back and Bicep musles first. 4 is a good starting point. You will work your way up very quickly. Dont be afraid of them though. I find they can be mentally be very challenging if your tired. So get psyched up before doing them. Stop convincing yourself you can only do 4. Set a target and you will probably make it.

Also, dont wear yourself out doing other bicep and back exercises before attempting the pullups. Pullups are the king for back and bicep I think.

Just an aside, if your starting strenght, then I hope your doing plenty of squats, deadlifts and powercleans with Barbell?
I think that Pullups and Dips are less important at the start, as in they shouldnt affect the main three exercises.

caterpillar101

Mellor wrote: »

Well, you can't make yourself lighter, but you can make them easier.
assisted pull-up machines, somebody hold feet, or simply bands wrapped around feet.
I rather bands as they assist less the closer you get to the top, assisted machines provide uniform help.

Stupid question perhaps but....
What kind of resistance bands should one use for this?
Is there somewhere someone could recommend that stocks them in South Dublin? Dont live there anymore so I´m not familiar with fitness stores there, but I´ll be home next weekend.
Thanks

pink-mist

hidinginthebush wrote: »

I had a bar set-up in my parents house which was great, I was able to drill it into the wall and could happily work away on them. But now I've moved out and am without a pull up bar. Can anyone recommend me a bar which I can get which will not damage my apartment and get me into trouble with my landlord?

Cheers!

I got one in argos (the cheapest one), Just don't drill the little metal side bits into the door and tighten the bar onto the door frame. Supports my weight and the other halves (83kg) so they're fairly sturdy!

MaxPower89

pink-mist wrote: »

I got one in argos (the cheapest one), Just don't drill the little metal side bits into the door and tighten the bar onto the door frame. Supports my weight and the other halves (83kg) so they're fairly sturdy!

I recently bought this same bar, the limit on it is 93kg and I'm only 3kgs off that, but it seems sturdy enough really. I installed it too low though, so I've to crouch going under it....duh..:rolleyes:

nice_guy80

you can also use a bench to assist on the pull ups, once you've gone to failure. then allow body to drop slowly unassisted...
negatives - love them

also, do pullups early in a gym session

as for Dips, i usually leave them till last in any session - knock out 6/7 bodyweight dips (i'm progressing to weighted dips soon), then do bench dips with 15/20kg added
really hits the back of arms.