For parents of obese children

Zamboni

I got very angry today driving into work.

A school girl of about 12 (I'm guessing) was walking down the road.
The poor child was about 5' 7' and about 16st. She was huge.

The level of contempt I felt for her legal guardians, whoever they are, was overwhelming.
The guardians of this child have forced her into a life of poor health, disease, mockery and misery.
Any persons that treated a child with physical violence, sexual abuse or malunitrition would be addressed by the appropriate authorities, but in the case of feeding a child to death by the 'over loving' parent, it is simply ignored.
This child is not loved.
This is the problem with being PC about obesity, it's causes and effects.
The next time you hear about fat people complaining about paying for bigger seats on planes or some other nonsensical issue based on there own disgusting feeding habits, think about the thousands of poor children that are being forced into a life of physical disease and mental abuse through misery.

This post may not be as coherent as I would like but I am fuming.

Moonbeam

I understand your rant but you do not know if the child was ill or why she was morbidly obese.

Zamboni

Moonbeam wrote: »

I understand your rant but you do not know if the child was ill or why she was morbidly obese.

She was morbidly obese because she has consumed calories in excess of her actual requirements.
It is actually very rare for a person to have a medical condition that results in obesity.
And even, in those incredibly rare circumstances, excess calories still must be consumed for the human body to be able to store those calories as adipose tissue.
All parents are responsible for the nutritional requirements of their offspring.
If a child is overweight, the parents are directly responsible.

Prop Joe

Maybe it's time to goverment pipped in,And introduced a super tax on all "Unhealthy foods"

amacachi

Prop Joe wrote: »

Maybe it's time to goverment pipped in,And introduced a super tax on all "Unhealthy foods"

Or instead of subsidising at one end and taxing at the other just got out of the way altogether.

Elle Collins

I hear ya Zamboni, obese kids are a very sad sight to see.

Ayla

And exactly how would you define "unhealthy?" Even fresh spuds (naturally a very healthy veg) can be made unhealthy by the cooking method, gravies, sauces, toppings put on them. A tax would be impossible to define.

Pizza can be healthy, homemade burgers can include some of the "5 a day"...

Zamboni

Prop Joe wrote: »

Maybe it's time to goverment pipped in,And introduced a super tax on all "Unhealthy foods"

No.
The responsibilty lies with the legal guardian(s) of a child.
The government provide a free education system that deals with biology and nutrition and run various health promotion programmes through statutory agencies.

Ayla

so would you support the policing of parents who have obese children, so that they are imprisoned under child abuse/neglect?

Prop Joe

Ayla wrote: »

And exactly how would you define "unhealthy?" Even fresh spuds (naturally a very healthy veg) can be made unhealthy by the cooking method, gravies, sauces, toppings put on them. A tax would be impossible to define.

Pizza can be healthy, homemade burgers can include some of the "5 a day"...

Well obviously there are experts to define,Maybe based on calories or the such.
More education obviously or maybe put it on the school Curriculum Healthy eating,fitness etc..

Quandary

Ayla wrote: »

so would you support the policing of parents who have obese children, so that they are imprisoned under child abuse/neglect?

As far as I am aware, not feeding a child resulting in malnourishment (sp?) would be considered a form of child abuse.

Why should over feeding a child to the point of morbid obesity be different?

mikemac

Our local national school banned sweets and soft drinks for sos and lón years ago for Monday to Thursday. Works well, if you want your local school to do this maybe raise it in a meeting.

The school has subsidised milk from the local creamery if parents want to sign up, costs very little. Again, might be something can be arranged in your area, sure it's a captive market and sales for the local creamery, they'll get involved
Great craic in winter, when the milk gets frozen outside

You mightn't be able to do much at all but you can introduce some good policies in your local school

Ayla

Not as easy as that. Calories are heavily dependent on cooking methods (ie: steam vs fry, for instance). And as i said before, a burger out of a chipper is going to have vastly different nutritional value than one made at home w/ fresh ingredients.

And you can teach the kids all you want, but if parents don't cook well at home (out of laziness, fear of trying something new, supposed cost factors, etc) it won't make a difference.

Prop Joe

Ayla wrote: »

Not as easy as that. Calories are heavily dependent on cooking methods (ie: steam vs fry, for instance). And as i said before, a burger out of a chipper is going to have vastly different nutritional value than one made at home w/ fresh ingredients.

And you can teach the kids all you want, but if parents don't cook well at home (out of laziness, fear of trying something new, supposed cost factors, etc) it won't make a difference.

It all comes down to cost..Maybe educate this generation but i feel the government maybe at education level need to jump aboard this ship.It is a dangerous situation

Edward Carson

Zamboni wrote: »

I got very angry today driving into work.

A school girl of about 12 (I'm guessing) was walking down the road.
The poor child was about 5' 7' and about 16st. She was huge.

The level of contempt I felt for her legal guardians, whoever they are, was overwhelming.
The guardians of this child have forced her into a life of poor health, disease, mockery and misery.
Any persons that treated a child with physical violence, sexual abuse or malunitrition would be addressed by the appropriate authorities, but in the case of feeding a child to death by the 'over loving' parent, it is simply ignored.
This child is not loved.
This is the problem with being PC about obesity, it's causes and effects.
The next time you hear about fat people complaining about paying for bigger seats on planes or some other nonsensical issue based on there own disgusting feeding habits, think about the thousands of poor children that are being forced into a life of physical disease and mental abuse through misery.

This post may not be as coherent as I would like but I am fuming.

I share your anger in relation to this issue. In my city such children are invariably the offspring of lazy and gluttonous parents, so as sad as the situation is, it's seemingly inevitable.

Up here the sight of children being driven laughably short distances to school is all too common. Is it the same south of the border?

CrazyRabbit

I usually cringe when I see these type of threads. Most people jump in with the 'tax unhealthy foods' or 'ban fast food places' or 'ban certain foods' etc. Not really tackling the root cause.

Unhealthy foods aren't the cause. I am the perfect weight for my height/build and yet do indulge in some very unhealthy foods. I just exercise which brings balance.
I usually eat healthy food at home/in work, but sometimes go to McDonalds when I'm out and get hungry.

And I don't think it's fair that I have to pay more for some foods just because some people over consume them.

No...the problem here is education, the lack of availability of tasty, convenient & cheap healthy foods. And it is indeed the blame of parents for not monitoring their kids food intake, and not encouraging exercise.
Saying that, some people are genetically disposed to gaining weight easily, so I wouldn't expect every child/person to be at 'normal' weight.

Zamboni

Edward Carson wrote: »

I share your anger in relation to this issue. In my city such children are invariably the offspring of lazy and gluttonous parents, so as sad as the situation is, it's seemingly inevitable.

Up here the sight of children being driven laughably short distances to school is all too common. Is it the same south of the border?

Strangely enough, accoring to various studies, the level of activity has not greatly changed in children over the last five decades.
Of course sedentary lifestyle is a significant contributing factor but the main issue is simply too much food. Too many calories.

Zamboni

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

No...the problem here is education, the lack of availability of tasty, convenient & cheap healthy foods. And it is indeed the blame of parents for not monitoring their kids food intake, and not encouraging exercise.

Healthy food is actually not expensive.
It only appears expensive when compared to junk food on a calorie to calorie ratio.

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Saying that, some people are genetically disposed to gaining weight easily, so I wouldn't expect every child/person to be at 'normal' weight.

Even in the case of a genetic predisposition to gain weight, excess calories must still be consumed to acheive obesity.

Moonbeam

Some people can also eat anyhting and remain a size 8.

Healthy food is cheaper but it takes more effort. A burger and chips is easier to cooke then a roast with veg.

Prop Joe

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I usually cringe when I see these type of threads. Most people jump in with the 'tax unhealthy foods' or 'ban fast food places' or 'ban certain foods' etc. Not really tackling the root cause.

Unhealthy foods aren't the cause. I am the perfect weight for my height/build and yet do indulge in some very unhealthy foods. I just exercise which brings balance.
I usually eat healthy food at home/in work, but sometimes go to McDonalds when I'm out and get hungry.

And I don't think it's fair that I have to pay more for some foods just because some people over consume them.

No...the problem here is education, the lack of availability of tasty, convenient & cheap healthy foods. And it is indeed the blame of parents for not monitoring their kids food intake, and not encouraging exercise.
Saying that, some people are genetically disposed to gaining weight easily, so I wouldn't expect every child/person to be at 'normal' weight.

I know it's not fair like i smoke and just because i don't have cancer i have to pay more..booo you.

C'mon it's for the greater good,Ireland could be the first country to lead the way with this,Much like the smoking ban

Ayla

Moonbeam wrote: »

Healthy food is cheaper but it takes more effort. A burger and chips is easier to cooke then a roast with veg.

Actually, I completely disagree...you can pop a roast & veg in a slow cooker in the morning & wind up with a gorgeous (and healthy) stew by the time you come home from work in the evening. It takes more forethought but it's definitely no harder.

Homemade burgers & chips take minutes to make from scratch and are much healthier & tastier than premade processed stuff.

mikemac

Prop Joe wrote: »

C'mon it's for the greater good,Ireland could be the first country to lead the way with this,Much like the smoking ban

Ireland was one of the first countries to have restrictions on advertising aimed at children.

Came about in the wake of the McLibel trial if you've heard of it.
Ireland can lead the way in some issues

mikemac

If it has an ingredient you cannot pronounce or your Granny never heard of it, put it back on the shelf

CK2010

I think healthy eating is much more expensive when you're starting out, things like herbs and spices that most dishes call for cost alot if you're buying them all for just one dish, but as you stock up and continue to make the dishes with the same ingredients it levels out a bit.

same goes for if you're buying just one banana every day it will be more expensive than buying a bunch at the beginning of the week. that goes for all veg and fruit actually thinking about it. one nice soup mix that you can pick and choose from over two days would work out alot better than buying each single veg every time you make a soup/meal. and it can be really expensive if you dont realise that.

so if people are really going to give it a go they should expect it to seem really expensive at first til they learn to plan and buy in bulk. and i think alotofpeople dont realise this and they give up because at first it is actually really expensive.

Morag

It is more expensive when you compare the cost of a roast chicken dinner with the cost of two frozen pizza's and a kilogram of frozen chips.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Processed food has only been around for the past 100 - 150 years ago, its no coincidence that heart diseaze, diabetes and other nutrional diseazes have dramatically increased in this period,

everyday you buy something from the supermarket we're voting as the item passes the till, if its cheap processed food, we're supporting usually massive food production companies over processing corn, yup most of the processed food you buy is a derivative of corn, which may aswel just be sugar, if its in a sealed wrapper its usually no good,

if we could just start buying some fresh veg and meat, demand will increase, prices will come down, your local farmer will stay in the job, processed food will become less popular, diseaze will decrease, people will become healthier!

YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT!

Zamboni

Sharrow wrote: »

It is more expensive when you compare the cost of a roast chicken dinner with the cost of two frozen pizza's and a kilogram of frozen chips.

I acknowledge that junk food, calorie to calorie, is cheaper than healthy food for the most part but...
Does this absolve a parent from its responsibilty to ensure the child gets appropriate nutrition?
Does it justify obesity levels in children?

I don't think it does.

The cost of junk food actually becomes irrelevant because it is not food that a child needs.
The simple question is can one afford to feed a child a healthy diet adequate to its needs. Yes they can but they choose not to.

planetX

Healthy food is more expensive. I'm veggie and buy a lot of fresh veg and fruit - unless you stick to the 3 or so most common types, it costs a lot. I'm on a low income and my biggest extravagance is a fresh fruit salad for dessert... much much cheaper to buy a cake or icecream which is what I usually end up doing. I can't afford the food I'd actually prefer. There's no doubt it's cheaper to give your kids nuggets and chips.

melekalikimaka

if people are 'genetical disposed' to being over weight, they should watch what they eat, and parents should watch their childrens diets who suffer from it, blaming it on genetics is a cop out, look after your children or live with the knowledge your reducing your childs life expectency and ruining his or her standard of living

Morag

It's not just the cost of processed food, it is also the convenience of it.
Cooking and getting the most out of the house hold food budget is to many a lot skill set.
Yes there are programs in school about healthy eating and there are classes for parents who wish to attend but, for a lot of people they were not taught to cook at home and consider processed convenience food as normal to eat every day and at most meals.

melekalikimaka

also i read something recently in an article, if you cant see your childs rib cage her or she is over weight... no joke

deano86

i work for a chinese takeaway and do be suprised how many fat kids run to the door to grab the chinese, its the parents fault and there the first to snap if there kid starts getting bullied? i know from experience kids eat whats nice id of lived on candy floss n mcdonalds when i was young had i been allowed, but i wasnt it was takin and rationed and i appreciated more when i did get it. i see familys ordering dinner for family including kids meals over 3 times a week, i get the food free and wont eat that much. some people prefer to flash cash rather than going through the effort of actually making a good meal and its kids who suffer. :mad:

Moonbeam

Sharrow wrote: »

It is more expensive when you compare the cost of a roast chicken dinner with the cost of two frozen pizza's and a kilogram of frozen chips.

Which one are you saying is more expensive?
It does depend on the special offers that day:)
but both would cost around a tenner for 2/3 people.

planetX

Moonbeam wrote: »

Which one are you saying is more expensive?
It does depend on the special offers that day:)
but both would cost around a tenner for 2/3 people.

I wouldn't count a roast dinner as particularly healthy - and not better than a pizza.

SteelyDanJalapeno

planetX wrote: »

I wouldn't count a roast dinner as particularly healthy - and not better than a pizza.

Thats a joke yeah?

Moonbeam

I can not see how it isn't but everyones picture of a roast is different:)

Jimdagym

melekalikimaka wrote: »

also i read something recently in an article, if you cant see your childs rib cage her or she is over weight... no joke

That's interesting, was it qualified with an age limit at all?

CrazyRabbit

Another big issue with fresh food is that you generally have to shop twice a week (for a lot of fresh food)..not all. Frozen/preprocessed foods generally 'last' longer. I think it puts some people off as they have limited spare time and don't want to keep spending time shopping every few days.

planetX

Horgan wrote: »

Thats a joke yeah?

not at all. Greasy, oily meat, roast potatoes are just chips by another name. Veg dripping in meat juice. Yuck.

Moonbeam

I will be more specific

Roast chicken,Steamed/boiled spuds,roast/steamed veg.

v's

2 Goodfellas Pizzas and 1kg bag of chips

Morag

Moonbeam wrote: »

Which one are you saying is more expensive?
It does depend on the special offers that day:)
but both would cost around a tenner for 2/3 people.

It is easy to pick up a kilogram of frozen chips and a double pack of frozen pizza for 5 euro.
A roast chicken 2/3 veg and potatoes (boiled/mash/roast) costs more then that.

Ayla

Yes, you can get 2 pizzas & chips for €5. But you have to ask yourself about the quality of food you're eating. A roasted chix & steamed veg with spuds is much better for maintaining energy levels, meeting nutritional needs & providing calories that *can* be burned (unlike the greasy unsaturated fats that's in processed stuff that sits on your heart & waistline).

As for the "inconvenience" of fresh food...that's a bunch of balls. I do one bulk shop for dried & canned goods one time every 4-6 weeks, then go to our local butcher & green grocer one time every 1-2 weeks. We cook everything from scratch & the most processed stuff in our kitchen is the frozen fish fillets in the freezer. I spend no more than £200 in this monthly shop & usually no more than €50-€75 combined for meat/veg/fruit for the month. That feeds my family of 4 well b/c we plan ahead & utilize what we have on hand. It's not perfect, but it's good nutritionally & economically for my family.

Morag

Ayla wrote: »

Yes, you can get 2 pizzas & chips for €5. But you have to ask yourself about the quality of food you're eating. A roasted chix & steamed veg with spuds is much better for maintaining energy levels, meeting nutritional needs & providing calories that *can* be burned (unlike the greasy unsaturated fats that's in processed stuff that sits on your heart & waistline).

Yup and smart and sensible people know that, some parents don't and some parents do but don't care the just want something quick and cheap to feed the kids.

Ayla wrote: »

As for the "inconvenience" of fresh food...that's a bunch of balls. I do one bulk shop for dried & canned goods one time every 4-6 weeks, then go to our local butcher & green grocer one time every 1-2 weeks. We cook everything from scratch & the most processed stuff in our kitchen is the frozen fish fillets in the freezer. I spend no more than £200 in this monthly shop & usually no more than €50-€75 combined for meat/veg/fruit for the month. That feeds my family of 4 well b/c we plan ahead & utilize what we have on hand. It's not perfect, but it's good nutritionally & economically for my family.

Yes beacuse you plan and you can cook and use that know how to make a difference there are people who don't those skills, they don't know how to manage the pantry/press/fridge and to plan the meals for the week and so its 6pm the kids are hungry and they do what is cheapest/easiest.

Ayla

That is everyone's decision to make and everyone's responsibility to have. I do not do a single thing that can't be done by anyone out there...it's a choice.

Morag

Is it really?
When a person has been reared in a house hold that only eats from packets, then that is what is normal to them and they will rear thier kids in the same way. They can't pass on skills they have not got.

Ayla

Of course people do & repeat what they know. But that is their choice. They have access to whatever information & supplies they need to change their ways, but they choose just to do what's always been done.

silverharp

After flicking through the thread I can only conclude that people dont know what the definitive list of good and bad foods actually are.

Penny Dreadful

Prop Joe wrote: »

Well obviously there are experts to define,Maybe based on calories or the such.
More education obviously or maybe put it on the school Curriculum Healthy eating,fitness etc..

Really? There were SFA obese kids when I was young (born in 1977). My parents were not formally educated in what was and wasn't healthy/ good food, they just used common sense. Also there was no eating between meals unless it was a fruit snack and we walked / cycled to school, played games outside, were generally active.

Penny Dreadful

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I usually cringe when I see these type of threads. Most people jump in with the 'tax unhealthy foods' or 'ban fast food places' or 'ban certain foods' etc. Not really tackling the root cause.

Unhealthy foods aren't the cause. I am the perfect weight for my height/build and yet do indulge in some very unhealthy foods. I just exercise which brings balance.
I usually eat healthy food at home/in work, but sometimes go to McDonalds when I'm out and get hungry.

And I don't think it's fair that I have to pay more for some foods just because some people over consume them.

No...the problem here is education, the lack of availability of tasty, convenient & cheap healthy foods. And it is indeed the blame of parents for not monitoring their kids food intake, and not encouraging exercise.
Saying that, some people are genetically disposed to gaining weight easily, so I wouldn't expect every child/person to be at 'normal' weight.

Does anyone other than me find it strange that these people who are genetically predisposed to gaining weight easily were so rarely seen years ago? Is this a gene that skips a generation? Personally I think this genetic stuff is little more than an excuse.
Not having a dig at you Crazy Rabbit btw:)

planetX

silverharp wrote: »

After flicking through the thread I can only conclude that people dont know what the definitive list of good and bad foods actually are.

Because there is no definitive list?
I can make a really healthy pizza - wholemeal dough, fresh tomatoes, loads of veggies and a dash of cheese.
Knowing how factory farmed chicken is produced, and what it contains - I don't see a roast chicken as definitively healthy.
I don't believe it's as simple as good and bad foods. It's quite possible to become overweight eating only good foods, but in too large portions, or too often - potato or pasta being the main culprits.

silverharp

planetX wrote: »

Because there is no definitive list?
I can make a really healthy pizza - wholemeal dough, fresh tomatoes, loads of veggies and a dash of cheese.
Knowing how factory farmed chicken is produced, and what it contains - I don't see a roast chicken as definitively healthy.
I don't believe it's as simple as good and bad foods. It's quite possible to become overweight eating only good foods, but in too large portions, or too often - potato or pasta being the main culprits.

I fully agree its not a 2 dimensional issue. But the official adivce is outdated and a lot of people have a fuzzy idea of what foods are good/bad for instance fat is bad "too much sugar" is bad and low fat, carb based diet is ok, pepsi is bad innocent smoothies are good.
portion size I dont think matters all that much, as far as kids are concerned we never make ours eat everything up, We trust that their bodies tell them when they are full.
And indeed simple carbs like potatoes pasta and HFCS /sugar can be near toxic for many people which creates the whole weight gain = hungry= eat more food problem.