got points for driving uninsured but the rsa doesn't have them

marc.

I was fined and got 5 points last year (July) for driving without insurance. received a court note in August informing that the 5 points will go into my account within 28 days. strangely up until now they're not there, I rang the RSA in Ballina today and they told me they have no record of this, they only have 2 points I got on another day
how is this possible?

Chnandler Bong

I've never heard of anyone getting points for having no insurance.

Wile E. Coyote

Chnandler Bong wrote: »

I've never heard of anyone getting points for having no insurance.

No insurance: 5 penalty points and a fine of up to €2,500 and/or a possible term of imprisonment

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Penalty-points/Types-of-offences/

Surprised they haven't been applied yet OP

Ardent

Did anyone hear on Matt Cooper last week how if you don't bring your driving license to court, they can't apply the points to it? The absence of a license on the day creates some sort of bureaucratic/logistical loophole - I kid you not. Maybe this applies here?

(Mind you, the above doesn't apply to smaller offences, as 2 penalty points can be applied automagically. The mind boggles...)

coylemj

Ardent wrote: »

Did anyone hear on Matt Cooper last week how if you don't bring your driving license to court, they can't apply the points to it? The absence of a license on the day creates some sort of bureaucratic/logistical loophole - I kid you not. Maybe this applies here?

(Mind you, the above doesn't apply to smaller offences, as 2 penalty points can be applied automagically. The mind boggles...)

I heard that as well, after all the money they spent computerising the penalty points system they never thought of how to ensure that people submitted their licences for the points to be applied.

OP, were you asked at any stage to give the number of your licence? They probably can't apply the points using your name and address because there'd be lots of households around the country with father & son or mother & daughter with the same name living at the same address.

Big Nasty

In before the high horses!:cool:

Our man in Havana

Ardent wrote: »

Did anyone hear on Matt Cooper last week how if you don't bring your driving license to court, they can't apply the points to it? The absence of a license on the day creates some sort of bureaucratic/logistical loophole - I kid you not. Maybe this applies here?

(Mind you, the above doesn't apply to smaller offences, as 2 penalty points can be applied automagically. The mind boggles...)

That is true. Hundreds of people have been able to avoid points that way. There seems to be no way to correct it later.

It seems the system is unintentionally designed to facilitate those that don't pay up with the allotted time. Didn't get any notice- case struck out, no licence in court, avoid the points.

Reloc8

Section 22 Road Traffic Act 2002 :-

Your are obliged to present your licence if convicted by a court of a penalty points offence. Its an offence not to :-

22.—(1) A person charged with a penalty point offence or an offence committed after the commencement of this section on conviction of which the court is required to make a consequential disqualification order shall, not later than the day on which the hearing by a court of the proceedings in relation to the charge commences, give or send his or her driving licence to such officer of the Courts Service as may be designated by that Service and an officer of that Service may inspect and make a copy of the licence or of extracts from it and shall then return it to the person.


(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a person charged with an offence if the person produces, on or after the date of its commission, and before the hearing by a court of the proceedings in relation to the charge, his or her licence to a member of the Garda Síochána who is or was acting in connection with the alleged offence or the court proceedings concerned.


(3) A person who contravenes subsection (1) shall be guilty of an offence.

The Court Registrar is obliged to forward the details of the convicted person including driver number to allow the points to be entered against their entry. Where the convicted person doesn't do this, they can't provide the driver number and it seems name and date of birth does not suffice.

Ideally people who don't present their licences would be prosecuted for not doing so but this seems not to happen.

Under Section 4 of the Act of 2002, the 'appropriate date' is stated to be the date on which the points are considered to commence. Under Section 7 of the Act the 'appropriate date' is 28 days from the convicted person being notified of imposition of points (unless convicted person is already disqualified from driving in which case the points run for three years from the day after the disqualification lapses).

Since a person can't be notified until they present their licence, the points are 'waiting for them' presuming they ultimately do so. The only way to force people to do this is to prosecute them for failing to do so (any judge would treat more severely people who fail to present after being prosecuted than someone who presented albeit late following being prosecuted).

Our man in Havana

And a standard time limit of 6 months would apply to commencing such a prosecution. Also the court clerk would have to make a complaint to the Gardaí and they would issue the summons.

Reloc8

Yes, the usual rules for prosecution of a summary offence would obviously apply.

The time limit would be six months commencing two days after the court date on which conviction was imposed. That would seem to afford ample time within which to address the administrative issues.

2qk4u

I got two points for speeding and then got another two but when the first two reached their time limit I got a letter saying that they were removed from my record and I now have no points, get 4 take away 2 = 0.

marc.

coylemj wrote: »

OP, were you asked at any stage to give the number of your licence? They probably can't apply the points using your name and address because there'd be lots of households around the country with father & son or mother & daughter with the same name living at the same address.

I was in the court, but it wasn't me speaking to the Court, I wasn't even asked one question, all questions were answered by my solicitor. At no point I was asked to produce my license either during the hearing or after.
And there's no chance of another person with the same name, I'm 100% sure.

This is strange thing for me, on one hand I don't want to get into more trouble, but on the other, at no point I was informed that I need to do anything else (i.e. produce my license after the trial), and as I mentioned earlier I have received the court note about 2 months after the court sitting.

Eric Cartman

I think you can be fairly sure you somehow got away with it, its been almost a year so Id just go on their line that you have 2 points, it may make your insurance cheaper (well i think the whole 'caught driving uninsured' will still raise your premium)

marc.

Thanks for all the answers. I thought of one more thing: I will get back to the solicitor and ask them about the whole situation.
I will keep you posted

bladebrew

well nearly the same thing happened me, long story short, i went to court a few years ago for careless driving,
i read in the rules of the road its 5 penalty points,

nothing was mentioned about penalty points on the day, i rang a few times to ask about them, i even went back into the office in the court with my licence to ask about an endorsement, she asked why i thought i would have an endorsement, then went away to check something and said there was nothing to go on my licence

so as i mentioned somewhere on here recently, there seems to be no record of a conviction or penalty points on my licence,

fl4pj4ck

bladebrew, maybe there's no endorsement on your license, but you have been convicted for careless driving? or am I missing something?

bladebrew

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

bladebrew, maybe there's no endorsement on your license, but you have been convicted for careless driving? or am I missing something?

yes i was convicted in court of careless driving (hit a pedestrian with the wing mirror) i didnt know if they were supposed to put an endorsement on my licence or not,
this is going back 3 years now,

***please note im not the original poster, his situation is slightly different in that he got a letter informing him of penatly points

fl4pj4ck

sorry didn't mean to offend you, I was just being curious

bladebrew

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

sorry didn't mean to offend you, I was just being curious

no no im not offended at all!,
i just thought you thought i was the op if you know what i mean:)