Pushing ones views

Mistress 69

Pushing ones views

Having had a look at Atheist Ireland website it can be seen they are very active on lots of issues to promote their views. Just on one point alone they seem to have problems with having religious imagery such as The Crucifix displayed in schools.

My central point as usual is what actually gives them the right to so? Are they not just trolling their views on the rest of us without any regard for our views? Just in case I cause upset, or get branded a troll, please note the lack of any inflammatory phrases, even though the actions above are very much so to a lot of people on this island

Ickle Magoo

How are they trolling their views on everyone if you had to go and read their site to see what their views are?

sensibleken

wtf? this is like if my grandmother tried to use a computer. And shes been dead for 18 years

Delirium

Atheist Ireland aren't the only ones that are in favour of a secular education system. There are plenty of people of various faiths that are also in favour of it too.

o1s1n

Mistress 69 wrote: »

Pushing ones views

Having had a look at Atheist Ireland website it can be seen they are very active on lots of issues to promote their views. Just on one point alone they seem to have problems with having religious imagery such as The Crucifix displayed in schools.
My central point as usual is what actually gives them the right to so? Are they not just trolling their views on the rest of us without any regard for our views? Just in case I cause upset, or get branded a troll, please note the lack of any inflammatory phrases, even though the actions above are very much so to a lot of people on this island

Why should a crucifix (an implement of execution) be on show in a school in the first place?

sensibleken

o1s1n wrote: »

Why should a crucifix (an implement of execution) be on show in a school in the first place?

because his excecution means he died for your sins. Just like the picture of metalica on my wall as a teenager means Mary Smith will be cured of TB in the year 4036. you see?

o1s1n

So what you're saying is we should in fact be campaigning to get Metallica posters put up rather than crucifixes taken down?

This makes a lot of sense.

Knasher

People are entitled to express their opinions, especially when it comes to government policy, for example religious symbology in publicly funded educational institutes. If you can think up of a logical reason why it needs to be there, or what benefit it gives (and that the benefit outweighs the cost), I'm sure Atheist Ireland will welcome the debate.

Shouting how a rather powerless minority is oppressing the freedoms of the single largest and most powerful group, considering how many of our laws have entirely religious foundations, is frankly silly.

Genghiz Cohen

AI are not pushing view by wanting the crucifix gone, they are demanding that the CC stop pushing their views by having it there.

Either have all symbols or none.

Mistress 69

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

How are they trolling their views on everyone if you had to go and read their site to see what their views are?

A poor reply from you, go have a look youself!

Ickle Magoo

It's a poor question, poorly written. Smacks of:



Does de big bad athiest ireland want a fairer education system for all - oh the monsters! :rolleyes:

Liamario

I think there is a common misconception amongst the crazy religious types that aetheism is in itself a religion.
It's like calling muslims catholics in waiting.

Also, I suspect mistress69 is actually doubting her own faith by making these threads. What are actually being posed as statements, are actually questions about her own religious companions.

Mistress 69

Knasher wrote: »

People are entitled to express their opinions, Shouting how a rather powerless minority is oppressing the freedoms of the single largest and most powerful group, considering how many of our laws have entirely religious foundations, is frankly silly.

I could argue that as that symbology has been there as long as this State has existed, AND a lot of people are quite happy with that so why should it be removed just to please you guys?

Mistress 69

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

It's a poor question, poorly written. Smacks of:


Does de big bad athiest ireland want a fairer education system for all - oh the monsters! :rolleyes:

Why did you find your education was in any way unfair?

Delirium

Mistress 69 wrote: »

I could argue that as that symbology has been there as long as this State has existed, AND a lot of people are quite happy with that so why should it be removed just to please you guys?

atheists aren't the only ones in favour of this move. Christians, Jews, Muslims and a variety of other groups have also given support to the secularisation of the education system.

Ickle Magoo

Mistress 69 wrote: »

I could argue that as that symbology has been there as long as this State has existed, AND a lot of people are quite happy with that so why should it be removed just to please you guys?

Yeah, why strive for equality, it's so over-rated. Bring back slavery and legal homophobia.

ETA:

Mistress 69 wrote: »

Why did you find your education was in any way unfair?

I wasn't educated in ireland...my avatar is usually a bit of a clue.

fatmammycat

Plus schools are not churches, there is no reason for religious symbols of one faith to be given prominent placing.

Knasher

Mistress 69 wrote: »

I could argue that as that symbology has been there as long as this State has existed, AND a lot of people are quite happy with that so why should it be removed just to please you guys?

It probably would annoy me if I had kids in the educational system who felt ostracised by religious symbols which serve no educational purpose. The fact that they have been there thus far isn't a valid reason for them and I really doubt that religious kids would be all that put out by their absence.

Tell me, do you even notice if you enter a room which doesn't have a cross prominently displayed.

Dades

I'm just going to post this again for what it worth.

From The Angelus thread:

Dades wrote: »

Let's get one thing straight - the Boards A&A forum IS NOT aligned with Atheist Ireland.

Yes, there we share common members and some of us share certain ideals but we don't have to answer for every initiative or campaign they engage in.

So PLEASE do not post as if everyone here is all for banning crucifixes and whatnot.

Galvasean

Dudess

But you push your views OP - "Atheists are losers" and similar puerile sh1te.

CiaranMT

Unfortunately, Dudess, I doubt the OP sees the connection between his/her posts and what he/she is complaining about.

We should keep the crucifixes.

We should put up other representations of torture devices around the schools too. Keep 'em in line.

Genghiz Cohen

bluewolf wrote: »

We should keep the crucifixes.

We should put up other representations of torture devices around the schools too. Keep 'em in line.

School IS a torture device...

Turtwig

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

School IS a torture device...

Not if the person you were sitting beside almost every day for English and Maths was hawt.:D


*Please note this post is purely referring to the secondary school.

Galvasean

Malty_T wrote: »

Not if the person you were sitting beside almost every day for English and Maths was hawt.:D

Isn't this discussion about primary schools?

Get him!!!! :mad:

5uspect

Malty_T wrote: »

Not if the person you were sitting beside almost every day for English and Maths was hawt.:D

How is that not torture?

elekid

This topic kind of came up in the news today

Call for protection of human rights in schools

The Irish Human Rights Commission has called for legislative change and a revision of regulations governing schools.

The IHRC says it wants to ensure that the human rights of children of all religions and none are protected in Irish schools.

The comments came as the commission published its report 'Religion and Education: A Human Rights Perspective'.

The IHRC called on the Government to give a voluntary commitment to implementing such changes to show it is serious about meeting its obligations.

It says the State should ensure diversity in school type throughout the country.

Among 13 recommendations, it says if the State chooses to retain the current model of primarily denominational education then the Education Act should be amended to recognise the rights of minority or non-faith children.

It says consideration should also be given to moving formal religion classes to the beginning or the end of the day to help accommodate those seeking exemption.

The IHRC has also called for changes to equality legislation to ensure respect for the private lives of teachers.

If you look at the report, one of the key recommendations of the Irish Human Rights Commission was that "Schools should avoid any inadvertent indoctrination or proselytism of minority faith or non faith children".

elekid

elekid wrote: »

If you look at the report, one of the key recommendations of the Irish Human Rights Commission was that "Schools should avoid any inadvertent indoctrination or proselytism of minority faith or non faith children".

Inadvertent? Nothing inadvertent about it - it's blatant and deliberate :pac:

Mistress 69

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Yeah, why strive for equality, it's so over-rated. Bring back slavery and legal homophobia.

ETA:



I wasn't educated in ireland...my avatar is usually a bit of a clue.

Fair enough as to your education. As for slavery and homophobia that is another debate and probably could be found in another forum. I appreciate your right to your views, but you still have not given any compelling reasons as to why the removal of religous symbols in schools is required.

Galvasean

Mistress 69 wrote: »

, but you still have not given any compelling reasons as to why the removal of religous symbols in schools is required.

Selective eyesight FTW:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=72391516&postcount=28

mikhail

Mistress 69 wrote: »

Fair enough as to your education. As for slavery and homophobia that is another debate and probably could be found in another forum. I appreciate your right to your views, but you still have not given any compelling reasons as to why the removal of religous symbols in schools is required.

Compelling reasons for removing crucifixes: inappropriate in secular, pluralist society.
Compelling reasons for keeping crucifixes: none.

sensibleken

because the image of jesus on the cross is very homoerotic and our young men might learn to be gay :pac:

TwoShedsJackson

Mistress 69 wrote: »

Pushing ones views

Having had a look at Atheist Ireland website it can be seen they are very active on lots of issues to promote their views. Just on one point alone they seem to have problems with having religious imagery such as The Crucifix displayed in schools.

My central point as usual is what actually gives them the right to so? Are they not just trolling their views on the rest of us without any regard for our views? Just in case I cause upset, or get branded a troll, please note the lack of any inflammatory phrases, even though the actions above are very much so to a lot of people on this island

The Catholic Church, of course, wouldn't stoop so low as to have a website promoting the organisation or their views I suppose?

And of course no-one in the Catholic Church would EVER push their views on people without regard to what the other person thought or believed in the first place!!

Mistress 69

So PLEASE do not post as if everyone here is all for banning crucifixes and whatnot.[/QUOTE]

Without wishing to argue with you

I am not assuming that everyone here is for banning religous symbols and I accept that Boards is not aligned with any organisations. As this is the A&A forum I assumed this would be a reasonable place for such debate. I have stressed this is not a troll.. As for the Angelus thread, I have been left in no doubt that smart arse comments at 3 in the morning are not a good idea.

Beruthiel

Mistress 69 wrote: »

you still have not given any compelling reasons as to why the removal of religous symbols in schools is required.

In very simple english, not every child who goes to school in this country happens to be a catholic.
So, you either put up symbols of every single religion in the world, or you put up none at all.
To only have crosses up is extremely exclusionary to those children not of the catholic faith.

Mistress 69

Beruthiel wrote: »

In very simple english, not every child who goes to school in this country happens to be a catholic.
So, you either put up symbols of every single religion in the world, or you put up none at all.
To only have crosses up is extremely exclusionary to those children not of the catholic faith.

By that argument all the people in this country who have either no problem or are happy with religous symbolism in schools should then be excluded.

Mistress 69

mikhail wrote: »

Compelling reasons for removing crucifixes: inappropriate in secular, pluralist society.
Compelling reasons for keeping crucifixes: none.

Not compelling, just opinion.

5uspect

Mistress 69 wrote: »

So PLEASE do not post as if everyone here is all for banning crucifixes and whatnot.

Without wishing to argue with you

I am not assuming that everyone here is for banning religous symbols and I accept that Boards is not aligned with any organisations. As this is the A&A forum I assumed this would be a reasonable place for such debate. I have stressed this is not a troll.. As for the Angelus thread, I have been left in no doubt that smart arse comments at 3 in the morning are not a good idea.

So you admit you were trolling then? Why should we trust you now?

Why should any one religion have any right to display their iconography in a school? Isn't the simple and sensible answer to have secular schools? How is demanding equality for all in the face of disproportionate and overwhelming Catholic influence pushing one's views?

Beruthiel

Mistress 69 wrote: »

By that argument all the people in this country who have either no problem or are happy with religous symbolism in schools should then be excluded.

Incorrect.

Delirium

Mistress 69 wrote: »

By that argument all the people in this country who have either no problem or are happy with religous symbolism in schools should then be excluded.

Thats not even close to being the same idea. Why would anyone have to be excluded?

fatmammycat

I like how you ignored what I said. Schools are not churches, there is NO reason why one particular faith should have prominent symbols in a school.

5uspect

Mistress 69 wrote: »

By that argument all the people in this country who have either no problem or are happy with religous symbolism in schools should then be excluded.

Why don't we exclude all the children born in July then?

Ickle Magoo

Religious person who likes crucifix's on school walls sees no compelling reason to take crucifix's out of state funded school shocker - read all about it!! :eek:

Mistress 69

elekid wrote: »

This topic kind of came up in the news today



If you look at the report, one of the key recommendations of the Irish Human Rights Commission was that "Schools should avoid any inadvertent indoctrination or proselytism of minority faith or non faith children".

That may be the case, does having a crucifix on the wall in a school indoctrinate or attempt to proslytise anyone? Has the commission said they should be taken down, and if so, that would be regrettable.

Skrynesaver

Mistress 69 wrote: »

By that argument all the people in this country who have either no problem or are happy with religous symbolism in schools should then be excluded.

No, you have been asked previously if you notice the absence of a crucifix when you walk into a room, the reason that was asked, for the hard of thinking, is that the absence of a crucifix is not offensive to sane Christians whereas its presence is offensive to many and can be seen as coat tailing triumphalism.

Anyway you're either an unimaginative troll or a 12 year old playing on your mammy's computer and given your username I'm assuming the former so I'll be sticking you on my ignore list from here on out.

fatmammycat

Mistress 69 wrote: »

That may be the case, does having a crucifix on the wall in a school indoctrinate or attempt to proslytise anyone? Has the commission said they should be taken down, and if so, that would be regrettable.

Why would it be regrettable?

Mistress 69

5uspect wrote: »

Why don't we exclude all the children born in July then?

I am not sure that follows, and I reckon nobody would want to so, if you do feel free

smokingman

Mistress 69 wrote: »

By that argument all the people in this country who have either no problem or are happy with religous symbolism in schools should then be excluded.

I don't know why I'm feeding this trolobite but anyways...

I assume you have no issue with spending a few hours each week teaching the children about scientology and having a picture of L. Ron Hubbard beside the crucifix yeah? How's about a Satanic pentagram, Islamic half moon etc up there as well?

Mistress 69

smokingman wrote: »

I don't know why I'm feeding this trolobite but anyways...

I assume you have no issue with spending a few hours each week teaching the children about scientology and having a picture of L. Ron Hubbard beside the crucifix yeah? How's about a Satanic pentagram, Islamic half moon etc up there as well?

Sounds like you are baiting me with that line!

Mistress 69

fatmammycat wrote: »

Why would it be regrettable?

It would be regrettable for a lot of people who are happy with them there, maybe their opinions matter also.