Sly Gratuity Tips

krieture

I was looking to book a restaurant for my dads 60th. Heard good things about "Salon de Saveur" and was looking at their menu's. I noticed at the bottom of the page that - "Please note a 12.5 % gratuity will be added to your bill".

The way it is written at the bottom of the page it seems that all tables are charged a gratuity or service charge irrelevant of the table number. Is this normal? Although i have been asked to pay a tip/gratuity while paying by plastic, one has never been automatically charged to my bill.

Surely this isn't normal. A tip/gratuity should be payed when you have enjoyed good food and service. Not slyed in on the bill where 50% of people wont even notice and still leave a tip.

Dinkie

This appears to be coming more and more common.

However I believe that it is not obligatory, and if you are not happy with the service/dont want to pay it - it can be subtracted.

syklops

Do this:

Ring them up and book for your Dads 60th. A few weeks before the birthday go in with a few of your mates sit down, order some drinks then ask about the gratuity. Find out if they are flexible on the grat or not. If they are not, get up and go to leave. Then turn back in and go to the manger and say:

You: "By the way, my name is 'bla', and I have a reservation for 40 guests in 3 weeks time for my Dads Birthday"
Manager: "Yes...?"
You:"I'd like to cancel it. Bye-bye!"

If the manager doesn't rethink his policy on the spot then your better off without them.

olaola

I don't recall seeing a 'blanket' tip added to every bill, but I would expect it for tables over 6 people. They have it printed on the menu, you know about it in advance - they're not trying to trick you. I don't really see the problem here?

the beer revolu

12.5% is a bit steep. 10% would be the norm.
There is no obligation to pay this, although very, very few people would refuse.

MiCr0

if its published on their menu as being included then you may be obliged to pay it

The Hill Billy

Why not just call the restaurant & ask the manager if the 12.5% gratuity is negotiable. If not, just tell him/her that you'll take your business elsewhere. In these difficult economic times I'm sure that he/she will see sense to ensure that they get your business.

Susie_Q

I can't stand it when gratuities are automatically added on to a bill. Myself and my brother went for lunch in an Italian place in London and the bill came to about £40... added to this was a gratuity of £5 despite the fact that we were only a table of 2 and had only ordered 2 main courses and a bottle of wine. On top of this the service was fairly terrible.

On principle I decided not to tip at all then as they got my back up. I paid £40 and the owner asked me outright "What about the extra £5?" I had to firmly but politely explain what the word 'gratuity' meant; he didn't seem to know!

rubadub

Susie_Q wrote: »

added to this was a gratuity of £5 despite the fact that we were only a table of 2 and had only ordered 2 main courses and a bottle of wine.

The weird thing is if your bottle of wine was £515 instead of say £15, then you would have had to "pay the waiter" £62.50 extra to open that similar bottle. Open 2 bottles a day and feck off home and you are on good money.

There should really be limits on it because of this, like banks or ticketmaster might have % service charges for under a certain value but a max this value can be.

Magic Monkey

Salon des Saveurs is cash-only too. I got charged that 12.5% on a mediocre 3 course lunch for one! (their bread is amazing though).
Seemed to be issues with payment and reservations from past Menupages reviews, dunno if it's improved since then.

Most places charge that 12.5% rate, but usually for +6 groups. To be honest, there are lots of better places around the city centre in terms of food, value and service. Cliff Town House, One Pico, The Pig's Ear and Marco Pierre White's Steakhouse are all very good.

krieture

olaola wrote: »

I don't recall seeing a 'blanket' tip added to every bill, but I would expect it for tables over 6 people. They have it printed on the menu, you know about it in advance - they're not trying to trick you. I don't really see the problem here?

Like yourself i expect a Service Charge or Gratuity as they call it, to be charged for a large dinner group of 6+. I suppose the problem is that they are charging couples and smaller groups the exact same charge. Service is usually charged within the price of the food or menu not as another extra charge.

Its not whether they are trying to trick you or not, its the way that they pressure the customer to pay more. Lets face it, alot of people don't like to make a scene so will swallow the 12.5% charge and b*tch about it later.

So ive sent them an e-mail just to clarify the situation. Lets see what they say

krieture

MiCr0 wrote: »

if its published on their menu as being included then you may be obliged to pay it

I have spoken to a friend who has been a waiter for the last few years. You are not obliged to pay the service charge.

cgarrad

One of the few restaurants I don't mind paying extra.

diddlybit

I completely understand service charges for large groups, particularily those for special occasions, as the time spent at the restaurant tends to be considerably longer than, for example, business groups.

As someone who spent a long time suffering in the hospitality industry, I find that this country is extrordinarily bad for tipping. I understand that money is tight for everyone, but it is also tight for the people that work in these establishments. The wages are bad and now that business is down, I'm sure hours are down, as are tips. I worked with many people that relied on their tips to feed their kids every week. I've also worked in places that paid below minimum and the additional was made up depending on how much was taken in week to week. Pay packets made for interesting reading.

Frankly, if you have a good experience and it's a special occasion, 12.5% isn't a huge amount. I've spent hours serving big tables in the past and they've left nothing.

Also for those that don't like to tip when the food is bad, the service charge generally goes towards the waiting staff-

Food is bad- send it back.
Service is bad- don't tip.

I've tipped on occassions where the food is bad and I complained. If the staff are courteous and helpful in these instances, why not tip? If they sort out your problem, reward them. If they brush you off, which really isn't acceptable as they are the people communicating your complaint to the kitchen, don't tip.

Always check that your waiting staff is getting your tip, you'd be surprised how many places absorb tips back into their cash register.

This is rampling, I may have been left with deep emotional scars from my time waiting on tables. :mad:

the beer revolu

diddlybit wrote: »

I completely understand service charges for large groups, particularily those for special occasions, as the time spent at the restaurant tends to be considerably longer than, for example, business groups.

As someone who spent a long time suffering in the hospitality industry, I find that this country is extrordinarily bad for tipping. I understand that money is tight for everyone, but it is also tight for the people that work in these establishments. The wages are bad and now that business is down, I'm sure hours are down, as are tips. I worked with many people that relied on their tips to feed their kids every week. I've also worked in places that paid below minimum and the additional was made up depending on how much was taken in week to week. Pay packets made for interesting reading.

Frankly, if you have a good experience and it's a special occasion, 12.5% isn't a huge amount. I've spent hours serving big tables in the past and they've left nothing.

Also for those that don't like to tip when the food is bad, the service charge generally goes towards the waiting staff-

Food is bad- send it back.
Service is bad- don't tip.

I've tipped on occassions where the food is bad and I complained. If the staff are courteous and helpful in these instances, why not tip? If they sort out your problem, reward them. If they brush you off, which really isn't acceptable as they are the people communicating your complaint to the kitchen, don't tip.

Always check that your waiting staff is getting your tip, you'd be surprised how many places absorb tips back into their cash register.

This is rampling, I may have been left with deep emotional scars from my time waiting on tables. :mad:

Turkeys and Christmas springs to mind.
And why shouldn't kitchen staff get their share of the tips?
I remember working in a kitchen for less than the dole and I still disagree with added service charge and feeling obliged to tip.
Tips are generally only token amounts in France and people don't gripe about the country being bad for tipping.
Also, people here aren't taxed on tips (not that I agree with the American system where people are taxed on tips they might not receive).
I also, as mentioned earlier with regard to wine, think that tips calculated as a percentage of the bill make no sense.
I could rant like Mr. Pink all day but I'll stop.

aidan24326

olaola wrote: »

I don't recall seeing a 'blanket' tip added to every bill, but I would expect it for tables over 6 people. They have it printed on the menu, you know about it in advance - they're not trying to trick you. I don't really see the problem here?

You don't see what's the problem? Well, the problem is that tipping is (as it should be) an optional thing. A 'service charge' is supposed to be in lieu of tips, but putting it straight onto the bill is like forcing you to tip, which is bullsh1t. I'll tip no problem if the service is good, but not if it isn't. And does all of it end up in the hands of the waiting staff, as it's supposed to? I'll bet that oftentimes at least some of it doesn't.

olaola

the beer revolu wrote: »

Tips are generally only token amounts in France and people don't gripe about the country being bad for tipping.

There is a 15% service charge included on the bill in France, which goes to the staff. You might only 'round it up' and leave a few coins on the table.

olaola

aidan24326 wrote: »

You don't see what's the problem? Well, the problem is that tipping is (as it should be) an optional thing. A 'service charge' is supposed to be in lieu of tips, but putting it straight onto the bill is like forcing you to tip, which is bullsh1t. I'll tip no problem if the service is good, but not if it isn't. And does all of it end up in the hands of the waiting staff, as it's supposed to? I'll bet that oftentimes at least some of it doesn't.

It still is optional. Just don't pay it if you don't think the service warrants the payment! They're being upfront about the addition, it would be different if they added it without telling you. Which I think is illegal AFAIK.

aidan24326

olaola wrote: »

It still is optional. Just don't pay it if you don't think the service warrants the payment! They're being upfront about the addition, it would be different if they added it without telling you. Which I think is illegal AFAIK.

My point is why add it on at all? Shouldn't it be entirely at your own discretion whether to tip or not and how much/little you wish to give? I'd rather just give it directly to the person/people serving the table rather than having it added onto the bill.

diddlybit

the beer revolu wrote: »

And why shouldn't kitchen staff get their share of the tips?

I've no problem with some of the kitchen staff getting tips. The wages are awful, especially for the porters. Many places have collective tip collections and they are distibuted to some of the more lowly folk in the kitchens.

Tips are generally only token amounts in France and people don't gripe about the country being bad for tipping.

I suppose we can put dimiss aversion to tipping to a cultural nuance...

Also, people here aren't taxed on tips (not that I agree with the American system where people are taxed on tips they might not receive).

I've been taxed on credit card tips before.

I also, as mentioned earlier with regard to wine, think that tips calculated as a percentage of the bill make no sense.

This I sort of agree with, I have no idea how restaurants charge such ludicrous amounts for corkage fees. You should see me open a bottle of wine, no way would I charge money for it. :eek:

diddlybit

aidan24326 wrote: »

You don't see what's the problem? Well, the problem is that tipping is (as it should be) an optional thing. A 'service charge' is supposed to be in lieu of tips, but putting it straight onto the bill is like forcing you to tip, which is bullsh1t. I'll tip no problem if the service is good, but not if it isn't. And does all of it end up in the hands of the waiting staff, as it's supposed to? I'll bet that oftentimes at least some of it doesn't.

You'd be surprised how many people don't tip even when the service is good or it's a big party. Nada, niente, nichts, nothing.

the beer revolu

olaola wrote: »

There is a 15% service charge included on the bill in France, which goes to the staff. You might only 'round it up' and leave a few coins on the table.

But that 15% is built into the price - it is the price you see on the menu, not added on at the end of the bill. It is a level playing field as all cafes and restaurants charge it.
Realistically, Irish restaurants have service built into the price as they have to pay their floor staff - they don't survive on tips - it is just another overhead built into the price but still we have intermittent service charges and an oddly inconsistent tipping culture.
I'd much prefer the French system.
The French system also encourages staff to have an interest in how well a restaurant does overall, not just having an interest in fawning over people who are known to tip well and being rude to people who feel that they've paid for their meal and for it to be well served to them.

To all those turkeys not voting for Christmas, I ask: do you tip bar staff, taxi drivers, bus drivers, shop assistants, street cleaners, hotel domestics etc. etc.? They are all poorly paid and provide a service but for some reason it is not deemed mean and unreasonable to tip them because they don't serve us food in a sit down restaurant.

BTW, I generally do tip but often under duress.

the beer revolu

the beer revolu wrote: »

They are all poorly paid and provide a service but for some reason it is not deemed mean and unreasonable to tip them because they don't serve us food in a sit down restaurant.

BTW, I generally do tip but often under duress.

Edit:
Please read ; "unreasonable to not tip them"

aidan24326

diddlybit wrote: »

You'd be surprised how many people don't tip even when the service is good or it's a big party. Nada, niente, nichts, nothing.

That's their prerogative though. It may seem mean but a tip is a gratuity (think gift) not a mandatory fee for services rendered. I do generally do leave a tip if the service is decent, but I don't feel I'm compelled to by any means.