Prime Time Investigates: A Mission To Prey

Delirium

Prime Time are investigating sexual abuse by Irish missionaries in Africa tonight.

Taken from RTE site.

Aoife Kavanagh presents an investigation into evidence of sexual abuse by Irish missionaries in Africa, with account by victims. He asks how priests and fellow Christians who have abused their positions to prey on poor and vulnerable people have escaped punishment to date

On RTE 1 at 21.35.

MagicMarker

But they weren't really christians.

Delirium

MagicMarker wrote: »

But they weren't really christians.

well at least we got that out of the way early :P

Galvasean

MagicMarker wrote: »

But they weren't really christians.

Have you ever noticed how, particularly in places like Uganda where Christians are responsible for basically genociding homosexuals, Christians around these parts are very quick (and rightly so) to condemn such actions as not being proper representations of Christianity, but seem happy enough to use these 'Christians' when arguing that Christianity's numbers are on the increase globally?

MagicMarker

I wonder if they'll have any representatives on from the church?

fryup

MagicMarker wrote: »

But they weren't really christians.

yes, they're catholic:cool:

Delirium

Depressing stuff to watch. Seems that all the things that were done in Ireland with regards to handling allegations of sexual abuse.

Relocating priests/missionaries from one area to another when allegations arise. Failure to inform the relevant authorities.

It just shows that the Roman Catholic church are unworthy of the trust that is placed in them.

fryup

koth wrote: »

It just shows that the Roman Catholic church are unworthy of the trust that is placed in them.

indeed, but try telling that to the brained washed hicks down the country who still to this very day blindly follow that cult:cool:

what will it take?

spinzes

so when does this go up on the iplayer does anyone know ? l missed most of it , saw the frontline after though it was good

Delirium

I think it'll be up later today.

Up on RTE player now

Galvasean

Kind of makes me feel bad about all the money I gave to Troicaire over the years..

Royal Dub

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0814075/

this individual is alive and well living in ranelagh

<mod snip>

People, and more specifically parents of Ranelagh should be warned of this by our lazy media

InchicoreDude

I only watched some of this show so I can't comment about the entire documentary. However, I did the piece about the parish priest in Ahascragh, Galway. To me, it looked very much like the show portrayed the priest as guilty without any substantial evidence. He said he was willing to do a paternity test; What more could anybody expect? Yet, Prime Time seemed to be convinced he was guilty. Perhaps he was guilty but I believe in the innocent until proven guilty stance. Maybe I missed something earlier in the show....but for that one particular story, it did seem to be edited a bit onesided

Nodin

Last night's Prime Time Investigates programme on RTÉ One exposed several cases of abuse across the continent.
In one case, the abuse continued until just five years ago.
Minister for Justice Alan Shatter has said he watched the programme with a sense of revulsion at the unspeakable catalogue of abuse against children it revealed.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0524/abuse.html

I have to refrain from comment, as I deliberately evaded watching it last night, and don't have the stomach today either.

spinzes

thanks koth:) l see the 1 o'clock news has reported the garda commisioner is looking into see if any charges can be brought , lol , l doubt anything will happen it rarely does . l see someone must have set there recorder last night because its on megavideo , heres the link sorry if these links aren't allowed http://www.megavideo.com/?d=JJ14CGJ1

Tomtata

When are people going to learn, the Catholic church are responsible for the sexual abuse, torture and death of 1000's of innocent children yet they still control the primary education system in Ireland & its blatantly obvious what’s happening in many parts of Africa. It’s Ireland in 1900 all over again - control the primary education - Indoctrinate the young, perpetuate false believes and conduct Sadomasochism.

It’s very simple - Imagine you have a child and he/she is in Day Care / Crèche. This crèche has 100 branches throughout Ireland.

Allegations are made about certain staff members - An investigation into child sex abuse in conducted and it’s found 30 out of the 100 crèches are found to be covering up child sex offenders.

WILL YOU TRUST THIS ORGANISATION TO LOOK AFTER YOUR CHILD?
WILL YOU ALLOW THE MEMBERS OF THIS ORGANISATION TO OPERATE A CRECHE IN IRELAND AGAIN?

NO is the answer - they would be shutdown in an instant and everyone who was guilty would be locked up.

Also those of you donating to Africa through your local Parish / Catholic church think twice - Its charity will a heavy price tag - If you want do give Charity look for Secular organisations.

Latchy

I watched the the Prime Time Programme on rte player last night and interesting to hear several of the victims say that when they reported the abuse to officials in the church and instead of focusing the attention on the alleged priests accused of the abuse ,the church instead used character assassination to discredit the accusers . Nothing unusual there ,church policy again ,discredit the poor victim .

The programme went onto say that the figures of young Africans abused could run into the tens of thousands over the years with so many not coming forward to report because of shame or fear of not being believed .The smug look on the face of that priest at the end who denied he is the father of of an African child and then said '' bye now ,I hope I look good for the cameras ''...... was like a Fr Ted Parody .

Karamoja

Thanks for the link, just watched it there. Sickening stuff.

axer

How can some people watch this and still attend mass or even support the rcc financially. Its ludicrous and makes my blood boil thinking about it.

Galvasean

axer wrote: »

How can some people watch this and still attend mass or even support the rcc financially. Its ludicrous and makes my blood boil thinking about it.

"Oh it was just a few bad priests."
*points to lovely local parish priest*

philstar

axer wrote: »

How can some people watch this and still attend mass or even support the rcc financially. Its ludicrous and makes my blood boil thinking about it.

its the whole catholic/irish nationalism thingy, the two are tightly intertwined:cool:

Galvasean

philstar wrote: »

its the whole catholic/irish nationalism thingy, the two are tightly intertwined:cool:

Yep it all stems from that 'them and us' attitude people have against Protestants. Being Catholic (and supporting Celtic) is seen as some sort of FU to the crown. Which is odd, considering very few people care for such things these days.

Mistress 69

Prime Time

I Did not watch it, I assume it was a damming indictment.

GeckoOnTheWall

One of the priests actually lives in Rathgar in Mill Hill Missionaries House. He is well-fed, well-looked after, living very comfortably spending his days painting pictures. Unbelievable...

Mistress 69

philstar wrote: »

its the whole catholic/irish nationalism thingy, the two are tightly intertwined:cool:

I am not sure what you are saying is actually the case. As a Catholic I can and will (as nobody else is) try to convey how ordinary Catholics feel about this. We are truly disgusted at paedophilia Full Stop. It only adds to our distress to know that the Church authorities have tried to cover up these horrible crimes.
I believe as do ALL Catholics that the authorities within the Church have handled this in the worst poosible manner and feel that the perpetrators should have been reported to civil authorities for investigation when it was discovered what they were doing. There is very little else I can say about the matter, but wished to put that on record.

Galvasean

Mistress 69 wrote: »

I am not sure what you are saying is actually the case. As a Catholic I can and will (as nobody else is) try to convey how ordinary Catholics feel about this. We are truly disgusted at paedophilia Full Stop. It only adds to our distress to know that the Church authorities have tried to cover up these horrible crimes.
I believe as do ALL Catholics that the authorities within the Church have handled this in the worst poosible manner and feel that the perpetrators should have been reported to civil authorities for investigation when it was discovered what they were doing. There is very little else I can say about the matter, but wished to put that on record.

You are disgusted by it. There is evidence to show that the corruption goes all the way to the top of the RCC. I don't mean to be blunt but why are you still catholic? Why do you allow these people to represent you?

Ghost Buster

Mistress 69 wrote: »

I am not sure what you are saying is actually the case. As a Catholic I can and will (as nobody else is) try to convey how ordinary Catholics feel about this. We are truly disgusted at paedophilia Full Stop. It only adds to our distress to know that the Church authorities have tried to cover up these horrible crimes.
I believe as do ALL Catholics that the authorities within the Church have handled this in the worst poosible manner and feel that the perpetrators should have been reported to civil authorities for investigation when it was discovered what they were doing. There is very little else I can say about the matter, but wished to put that on record.

Not sure if you can speak for ALL catholics. But if you can then do you include those Catholics who abused, chastised and sent hate mail to the likes of Colm O'Gorman when they first started to go public. Claiming that he was damaging the Church and being selfish etc.
He still receives them to this day but less frequently.

Ghost Buster

Galvasean wrote: »

You are disgusted by it. There is evidence to show that the corruption goes all the way to the top of the RCC. I don't mean to be blunt but why are you still catholic? Why do you allow these people to represent you?

Because she's Catholic.
Read Catch 22:D

MrPudding

Mistress 69 wrote: »

I am not sure what you are saying is actually the case. As a Catholic I can and will (as nobody else is) try to convey how ordinary Catholics feel about this. We are truly disgusted at paedophilia Full Stop. It only adds to our distress to know that the Church authorities have tried to cover up these horrible crimes.
I believe as do ALL Catholics that the authorities within the Church have handled this in the worst poosible manner and feel that the perpetrators should have been reported to civil authorities for investigation when it was discovered what they were doing. There is very little else I can say about the matter, but wished to put that on record.

Unfortunately, you do not speak for all catholics. You do not have to travel too far from this forum to find people that think the church did nothing wrong and still argue that child raping priests should not be reported to the civil authorities. And whilst it is awesome to hear that you think child rapists should be reported, the very fact that you have to explain that this is how you feel shows how bad the perception is. I mean seriously, of course they should be reported… What kind of person would think they shouldn’t be?

What would it take for you to actually say enough is enough, I am done with this despicable organisation?

EDIT: Sorry for the repeat points, I hit reply when there were no responses and then took a while to post.

MrP

Mistress 69

Galvasean wrote: »

You are disgusted by it. There is evidence to show that the corruption goes all the way to the top of the RCC. I don't mean to be blunt but why are you still catholic? Why do you allow these people to represent you?

How did I know I might put myself in near boiling water on this. I have stated my view, which I know includes all Catholics, leaving out the abusers themselves of course. This is not trying to score points, the question I ask myself is should I and millions like me loose our Catholic Faith due to the actions/failings of men? ...I would say not. If corruption all the way to the top is proven, well that will be a very regrettable day for Catholics worlwide and I hope that does not come to pass. All I can say is that there is nothing more I can say on this one other than the contents of this and my last post.

Galvasean

You understand there are many forms of Christianity? So many ways to love God and praise jesus? It just strikes me as odd that so many refuse to accept that Catholocism probably isn't the right Christianity for them.

robindch

Mistress 69 wrote: »

the question I ask myself is should I and millions like me loose our Catholic Faith due to the actions/failings of men?

Well, the church says that it's the ultimate moral authority on earth.

Given that it has employed a huge number of pedophiles and people who went out of their way to protect them, would that not suggest to you that it may not be the ultimate moral authority?

I don't buy the "The system is perfect, only people fail" response

Galvasean

if the system was perfect then surely the failures of men wouldn't even come into the equation?

Mistress 69

robindch wrote: »

Well, the church says that it's the ultimate moral authority on earth.

Given that it has employed a huge number of pedophiles and people who went out of their way to protect them, would that not suggest to you that it may not be the ultimate moral authority?

I don't buy the "The system is perfect, only people fail" response

I am not up for debate on this. I stated my views and respectufully request not to be drawn any further on this one.

Galvasean

Mistress 69 wrote: »

I am not up for debate on this. I stated my views and respectufully request not to be drawn any further on this one.

They always say that.

MagicMarker

Mistress 69 wrote: »

If corruption all the way to the top is proven, well that will be a very regrettable day for Catholics worlwide and I hope that does not come to pass.

If? Are you serious? Your very own pope had a very significant hand in the cover up of child sexual abuse!

robindch

Mistress 69 wrote: »

I am not up for debate on this.

During the ongoing pedophile scandal, the church relied heavily on the fact that its employees and its believers would not ask questions. It's pretty much a matter of public record that this attitude of unquestioning silence contributed directly to the length and depth of the scandal.

I think you should at least consider the possibility -- however faint it might appear to you and whether you do it here in A+A or elsewhere -- that the church is not what it claims to be.

goodomens

robindch wrote: »

Well, the church says that it's the ultimate moral authority on earth.

Given that it has employed a huge number of pedophiles and people who went out of their way to protect them, would that not suggest to you that it may not be the ultimate moral authority?

I don't buy the "The system is perfect, only people fail" response

The church didn't employ pedophiles, they employed (or accepted a vocation) from men who masqueraded as peodphiles under the guise of a priest.

MagicMarker

goodomens wrote: »

The church didn't employ pedophiles, they employed (or accepted a vocation) from men who masqueraded as peodphiles under the guise of a priest.

And then protected them when discovered and allowed them to continue to abuse children.

robindch

goodomens wrote: »

The church didn't employ pedophiles[...]

There were hundreds, if not thousands, of men who were known to have abused children, whom the church continued to employ. Ergo, the church employed known pedophiles.

Mistress 69

Listen guys, there is no need to:(, this was a pretty finished thread where all agreed their digust etc re the events detailed on Prime Time aired last week, including me. There is nothing more I can say!

robindch

Mistress 69 wrote: »

There is nothing more I can say!

In relation to the Primetime program, no doubt that's right.

However, in relation to the wider question, and amongst atheists and agnostics particularly, there is universal incomprehension as to why people are still holding up the church as a moral authority, still getting their kids inducted into it, still supporting the perceived right of the church to control access to schools and so on.

I think we're all agreed that the scandal is appalling. What we don't understand is why people still follow the church without any serious degree of questioning -- can you suggest some reasons why that is?

gcgirl

Their sheep simples

Mistress 69

robindch wrote: »

In relation to the Primetime program, no doubt that's right.

However, in relation to the wider question, and amongst atheists and agnostics particularly, there is universal incomprehension as to why people are still holding up the church as a moral authority, still getting their kids inducted into it, still supporting the perceived right of the church to control access to schools and so on.

I think we're all agreed that the scandal is appalling. What we don't understand is why people still follow the church without any serious degree of questioning -- can you suggest some reasons why that is?

All I wanted to do was go on record as I did. Wider questions, new threads ....How about we leave that for another day.

axer

gcgirl wrote: »

Their sheep simples

Whats wrong with their sheep?

Mistress 69, do you give money at mass or otherwise to the church? Why do you need the church to believe in or pray to god/jesus?

Edit: why it is important and relevant is that those that still are active members of the catholic church are supporting their behaviour allowing it to continue on thus putting more children at risk.

Ghost Buster

robindch wrote: »

In relation to the Primetime program, no doubt that's right.

However, in relation to the wider question, and amongst atheists and agnostics particularly, there is universal incomprehension as to why people are still holding up the church as a moral authority, still getting their kids inducted into it, still supporting the perceived right of the church to control access to schools and so on.

I think we're all agreed that the scandal is appalling. What we don't understand is why people still follow the church without any serious degree of questioning -- can you suggest some reasons why that is?

The wheels go round and round and round and round and round and round

Mistress 69

Ghost Buster wrote: »

The wheels go round and round and round and round and round and round

Great track.....heading for i tunes download, forgot about that one... Thanks Ray Parker Jnr ! Ha Ha:D

GeckoOnTheWall

Mistress 69 wrote: »

How did I know I might put myself in near boiling water on this. I have stated my view, which I know includes all Catholics, leaving out the abusers themselves of course. This is not trying to score points, the question I ask myself is should I and millions like me loose our Catholic Faith due to the actions/failings of men? ...I would say not. If corruption all the way to the top is proven, well that will be a very regrettable day for Catholics worlwide and I hope that does not come to pass. All I can say is that there is nothing more I can say on this one other than the contents of this and my last post.

Religion is a very painful subject to discuss openly in an anonymous cyberspace and I udensrtand the hard emotions that Mistress 69 might be feeling right now. However, I must agree with what has been said that there is no way that you can be a Catholic and distance yourself from Catholic Church. If you are a Catholic, you support RCC either via financial support or simply by being one of the followers. As it has been said, there are many ways to worship God. Catholicism is just another way of doing it. Sadly, for centuries Catholic Church has been very effective at controlling people rather than being a moral institution, i.e. the access to Bible in Ireland was seriously resrticted; masses were held in Latin; God was somebody to be feared of etc.
I also understand that religion is part of ubringing and tradition, and for that reason it might be unthinkable for some people to be able to move on to another Christian religion (protestant for example). All I can say it's worth trying for people who need God in their life, but are fed up with Catholic Church's moral disintegration.

Mark Hamill

robindch wrote: »

In relation to the Primetime program, no doubt that's right.

However, in relation to the wider question, and amongst atheists and agnostics particularly, there is universal incomprehension as to why people are still holding up the church as a moral authority, still getting their kids inducted into it, still supporting the perceived right of the church to control access to schools and so on.

I think we're all agreed that the scandal is appalling. What we don't understand is why people still follow the church without any serious degree of questioning -- can you suggest some reasons why that is?

I think its because people honesty dont connect the acts of communion, confirmation, marriage, putting "Roman Catholic" on the census etc as being in any way supportive of the roman catholic church. Seriously, I've had arguments with my dad about him putting RC on the census (this a man who doesn't just not like the RCC, but any church, if anything, he is a spiritualist) and his reasoning is that the RC priests and the vatican dont "own" the catholic church and that you can be RC without showing support for them (this on top of the idea that you can be RC and not believe in any of the things a RC is supposed to believe in - Mary being a virgin, homosexuals are bad, Jesus was the son of god etc).

goodomens

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I think its because people honesty dont connect the acts of communion, confirmation, marriage, putting "Roman Catholic" on the census etc as being in any way supportive of the roman catholic church. Seriously, I've had arguments with my dad about him putting RC on the census (this a man who doesn't just not like the RCC, but any church, if anything, he is a spiritualist) and his reasoning is that the RC priests and the vatican dont "own" the catholic church and that you can be RC without showing support for them (this on top of the idea that you can be RC and not believe in any of the things a RC is supposed to believe in - Mary being a virgin, homosexuals are bad, Jesus was the son of god etc).

The catholic church's teaching does not say that 'homosexuals are bad' how old are you? It is taught that the homosexual desire, is disordered, not that being gay is 'bad'.

MagicMarker

goodomens wrote: »

The catholic church's teaching does not say that 'homosexuals are bad' how old are you? It is taught that the homosexual desire, is disordered, not that being gay is 'bad'.

Are people usually sent to hell for not being bad?