What does these boiler knobs do??

paddy147

I had the plasterers in to replaster the walls.

They took off the rads and then put them back on the walls after plastering was complete.

The heating system wasnt used for 5 days.The boilier is an "Ideal" boiler system and is 10 years old,working perfectly before rads were taken off the walls.

Now when I went to turn the heating back on this morning,NOTHING happened.The pilot light is on and the boiler fires up,when I press the ON/Boost button on the control panel,but the rads will not heat up at all.

Theres zero pressure on the boiler clock.But the rads have water in them and no air is comming out,as I bled them all.Theres a valve tap in the hot press beside the tank,but that seemed to be in the closed position,when I opened this tap,all the rads filled up and the air locks came hissing out of the rad bleed valves.

SHOULD THAT VALVE TAP BE OPEN OR CLOSED????

So can anyone here help me out as to how to get my system up and heating again??

What are the controls on the boiler (please see pic).

Thanks.:)

tom thum

With the heating off, the pressure guage should read 1 bar. So leave that valve on until the gauge reads 1 bar , then turn it off.YOU shouldnt have to touch the boiler.

paddy147

tom thum wrote: »

With the heating off, the pressure guage should read 1 bar. So leave that valve on until the gauge reads 1 bar , then turn it off.YOU shouldnt have to touch the boiler.

Do you mean the black coloured valve tap beside the tank??

Leave that turned on but DONT turn on the heating system??

Thanks.:)

Diggerdunne

This thread seems to be similar to your problem. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056275764
The boiler won't fire with no pressure. It's a safety feature. You prob have a sealed system and just need to top up your system as water obviously leaked a little when ya removed the rads and re-fitted them....

paddy147

Diggerdunne wrote: »

This thread seems to be similar to your problem. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056275764
The boiler won't fire with no pressure. It's a safety feature. You prob have a sealed system and just need to top up your system as water obviously leaked a little when ya removed the rads and re-fitted them....

Yes,some of the pipes leaked some water (when rads were removed) and the plasterer asked me to go and get some special blanking caps from the builders providers to cap off the rad pipes in the rooms they were plastering.

Diggerdunne

So ya need to replace the water that leaked out of the system in order for the heating to work again, hence raising the pressure reading on the boiler...

paddy147

Diggerdunne wrote: »

So ya need to replace the water that leaked out of the system in order for the heating to work again, hence raising the pressure reading on the boiler...

Thanks for making it seem so simple and straight forward.

So if I turn that black valve tap in the hotpress (see pic above) to the ON position,then will that fill the boiler and raise the pressure on the clock??

1-1.5 bar should be ok??

Thanks.:)

Diggerdunne

It looks like that valve alright but in my house it's a penny valve and it's in the hotpress. Also I have a pressure gauge on that valve also. You may need someone to help you so you know when the gauge reaches 1-1.5 bar. You only need to open it for a few seconds and you will hear the water rushing into the system. Maybe someone else here will confirm that it's the correct valve to open before you open it as mine is in the hotpress....

paddy147

This is a better pic of the tank and hotpress.

Theres 2 red taps and the black plastic valve tap.

I presume that bleck valve tap is the 1,I should open?? (ive just opened it)


Also what are the various valves and knobs on top of the boiler for,do I neeed to turn or oprn any of these too??

Thanks.:)

Diggerdunne

I'm not at home to check mine. You don't need to go near the boiler, they are pressure release I think. I don't know why u have the red stop cock, black valve and also the silver penny valve all on that short pipe. Hopefully someone else will tell you why there are 3 valves on that pipe? Mine only has one and I open it and it tops up my system, sorry I can't be more helpful...

paddy147

Diggerdunne wrote: »

I'm not at home to check mine. You don't need to go near the boiler, they are pressure release I think. I don't know why u have the red stop cock, black valve and also the silver penny valve all on that short pipe. Hopefully someone else will tell you why there are 3 valves on that pipe? Mine only has one and I open it and it tops up my system, sorry I can't be more helpful...

Which 1 is the "silver penny" valve???

is that on top of the boiler or down in the hotpress??

Thanks.:)

tom thum

In photo dscf8520 its the little black knob you should turn and that fills up the heating system. Turn it on until the gauge on the boiler reaches 1 bar. Then turn it off. Heating fixed. Simples.

paddy147

tom thum wrote: »

In photo dscf8520 its the little black knob you should turn and that fills up the heating system. Turn it on until the gauge on the boiler reaches 1 bar. Then turn it off. Heating fixed. Simples.

I did that and the guage is still at zero.:(

Stove Fan

paddy147 wrote: »

This is a better pic of the tank and hotpress.

Theres 2 red taps and the black plastic valve tap.

I presume that bleck valve tap is the 1,I should open?? (ive just opened it)


Also what are the various valves and knobs on top of the boiler for,do I neeed to turn or oprn any of these too??

Thanks.:)

The picture of the cylinder and pipework looks like the filling loop to add water to the system. Open it slowly and keep checking the pressure on the boiler quage until it reads 1-1.5 bar. Then close the filling loop and it should be disconnected, but leave connected if your not sure. Close the gatevalve before the filling loop. Go to the top of the boiler and open the 3 caps on the valves (automatic air vents) by hand. Jurn the small black/ brass caps anticlockwise to open and use the vent key on the other. They will either hiss or let water out. Once it lets water out close them again clockwise. Bleed all of the radiators and check the pressure again and if necessary top up again by repeating the above. Next using a large flat bladed screwdriver partly unscrew a few turns until all the air hisses out of the pump and water comes dribbling out, dont fully unscrew!! Screw it closed when the water comes. Finally check your rad connections for any leaks and switch the boiler on. It should fire and it may gurgle for a bit and after a few days bleed the rads and the auto air vents again. You should be able to leave the auto air vents open but with age they can leak water so I close them and treat them manually.

Stove Fan.:)

Stove Fan

Is the red gatevalve before the black filling loop open? Try turning it anticlockwise to open and then try the black filling loop again.

Stove Fan:)

paddy147

Stove Fan wrote: »

The picture of the cylinder and pipework looks like the filling loop to add water to the system. Open it slowly and keep checking the pressure on the boiler quage until it reads 1-1.5 bar. Then close the filling loop and it should be disconnected, but leave connected if your not sure. Close the gatevalve before the filling loop. Go to the top of the boiler and open the 3 caps on the valves (automatic air vents) by hand. Jurn the small black/ brass caps anticlockwise to open and use the vent key on the other. They will either hiss or let water out. Once it lets water out close them again clockwise. Bleed all of the radiators and check the pressure again and if necessary top up again by repeating the above. Next using a large flat bladed screwdriver partly unscrew a few turns until all the air hisses out of the pump and water comes dribbling out, dont fully unscrew!! Screw it closed when the water comes. Finally check your rad connections for any leaks and switch the boiler on. It should fire and it may gurgle for a bit and after a few days bleed the rads and the auto air vents again. You should be able to leave the auto air vents open but with age they can leak water so I close them and treat them manually.

Stove Fan.:)

Is the gateway valve one of the red taps beside the tank (see pic)??

Thanks.:)

Stove Fan

paddy147 wrote: »

Is the gateway valve one of the red taps beside the tank (see pic)??

Thanks.:)

Yes. The red valve on the same pipe to the left of the black filling loop. See earlier reply at the end of page one for a better description. Dont touch the red handled valve in the bottom of the cylinder photo its the red valve at the top.

paddy147

Stove Fan wrote: »

Yes. The red valve on the same pipe to the left of the black filling loop. See earlier reply at the end of page one for a better description. Dont touch the red handled valve in the bottom of the cylinder photo its the red valve at the top.

Right,top red valve and black valve tap are opened.

Should the lower red valve be open or closed?

paddy147

Oh and Im presuming that I have the boiler turned off when doing this (as in off at the control panel).

Pilot light in boiler is still on,just the heating is switched off at the control panel.

yes??

Thanks

Stove Fan

paddy147 wrote: »

Oh and Im presuming that I have the boiler turned off when doing this (as in off at the control panel).

Pilot light in boiler is still on,just the heating is switched off at the control panel.

yes??

Thanks

Yes/fine to all the others. Don't touch the lower red valve just the top one in the photo. If you have disturbed the lower red valve open it fully and then close it about 3 turns. Make sure the radiator valves are open and keep checking the pressure.

Stove Fan:)

paddy147

Right,Ive done all the above and absolutely nothing is happening on the guage.

WTF is going on with this heating system??:mad:

Should I turn on the heating to see if the rads will heat up and that the guage is fecked,or will I rish damaging the boiler??

Thanks.

Stove Fan

paddy147 wrote: »

Right,Ive done all the above and absolutely nothing is happening on the guage.

WTF is going on with this heating system??:mad:

Should I turn on the heating to see if the rads will heat up and that the guage is fecked,or will I rish damaging the boiler??

Thanks.

No dont turn on the boiler!! Can you hear water running when you have opened the black valve and red gatevalve? Is water coming out the vents/rad vents?

Stove fan.

paddy147

Stove Fan wrote: »

No dont turn on the boiler!! Can you hear water running when you have opened the black valve? Is water coming out the vents/rad vents?

Stove fan.

The water is comming out of all the rads when I bled them last time.

When I originally opened that black loop filling valve tap,I could hear the water rushing through the system and all the air hissing out of the rads as I bled them originally.

Ive just worked my way through the house from the bedrooms downstairs bleeding each rad in turn,all have water comming out of them and no air.

When I reopened the black valve to get the pressure back,I cannot hear any water going through the pipes though.

I just found a valve on the side of the red part of boiler,what is this for??

Thanks.

Stove Fan

paddy147 wrote: »

The water is comming out of all the rads when I bled them last time.

When I originally opened that black loop filling valve tap,I could hear the water rushing through the system and all the air hissing out of the rads as I bled them originally.

Ive just worked my way through the house from the bedrooms downstairs bleeding each rad in turn,all have water comming out of them and no air.

When I reopened the black valve to get the pressure back,I cannot hear any water going through the pipes though.

I just found a valve on the side of the red part of boiler,what is this for??

Thanks.

It sounds as if its full? Do all the pipes feel cold? Have you bled the pump and does water trickle out and the same with the auto air vents? Have you now closed the black filling knob? Is it reading any pressure? Did the pressure quague register just before the rads were removed?

The big red thing on the top of the boiler is the expansion vessel. Leave it as is:)

Stove Fan.

paddy147

Stove Fan wrote: »

It sounds as if its full? Do all the pipes feel cold? .

YES,stone cold

Stove Fan wrote: »

Have you bled the pump and does water trickle out and the same with the auto air vents?.

Water came out of the top of the pump,when I unscrewed that screw slightly.

No water actually comming out of the vents though,a bare drip of water from the 1 to the left of the pic (vent with rad key in it)

Stove Fan wrote: »

Have you now closed the black filling knob? Is it reading any pressure? Did the pressure quague register just before the rads were removed?.

Yes,black filing knob is closed,guage still at zero.
I cant remember if the guage was reading anything prior to the rads being taken off the walls,as I never thought to look.:(

Stove Fan wrote: »

The big red thing on the top of the boiler is the expansion vessel. Leave it as is:).

Ok,will do.

Thanks

Stove Fan

I think someone needs to come out to see it unless you want to risk turning it on:eek: to see if it heats up for a few minutes.
Is the water actually there at the filling loop and not switched off further down? Could do with it all being checked.
Stove Fan.

paddy147

Stove Fan wrote: »

I think someone needs to come out to see it unless you want to risk turning it on:eek: to see if it heats up for a few minutes.
Is the water actually there at the filling loop and not switched off further down? Could do with it all being checked.
Stove Fan.

Yeah,the water is there at the filling loop.

I slightly opened the other end of the filling loop braided line with a spanner and the water started to pi55 out,so I tightened it back up.
straight away.
So there is deffinately water there.

How much would a plumber charge to come out and repressurise a boiler??

Just so I know what to expect roughly?

Thanks

Stove Fan

paddy147 wrote: »

Yeah,the water is there at the filling loop.

I slightly opened the other end of the filling loop braided line with a spanner and the water started to pi55 out,so I tightened it back up.
straight away.
So there is deffinately water there.

How much would a plumber charge to come out and repressurise a boiler??

Just so I know what to expect roughly?

Thanks

I dont really know? But if there is water pressure there then it must be full surely? I dont know how often a pressure guage fails either or if they don't fail. Good luck with it.

Stove Fan

tom thum

how long are you leaving the valve on for ? it needs a chance to build up the pressure. The system might be full , but now it has to pressurise.in pic 8520 of the hotpress the black knob is in the open position.

paddy147

tom thum wrote: »

how long are you leaving the valve on for ? it needs a chance to build up the pressure. The system might be full , but now it has to pressurise.in pic 8520 of the hotpress the black knob is in the open position.

I had just opened the black valve when I took the pic.

I had it left open for 15 minutes and nothing had happened,guage was still at 0,yet all the rads seem full and dripping water when I go to open the bleed valves.

Im seriously confused at this stage,as to why the fecking boiler wont work.:mad:

nophd08

paddy147 wrote: »

I had just opened the black valve when I took the pic.

I had it left open for 15 minutes and nothing had happened,guage was still at 0,yet all the rads seem full and dripping water when I go to open the bleed valves.

Im seriously confused at this stage,as to why the fecking boiler wont work.:mad:

All 3 valves need to be open to fill system, (not sure why 3 are fitted) Red handled gate valve on left of black valve, black valve itself, and (penny valve) the one on right of braided flexi. you'll need a screwdriver or (penny) to open that one.

paddy147

nophd08 wrote: »

All 3 valves need to be open to fill system, (not sure why 3 are fitted) Red handled gate valve on left of black valve, black valve itself, and (penny valve) the one on right of braided flexi. you'll need a screwdriver or (penny) to open that one.

It doesnt look like a penny valve to me,when I opened the nut,water came pi55ing out of it,so I tightened it back up.

I now have the black calve and the 2 red taps open,and still nothing on the boiler guage.:(

Bruthal

Maybe the filling loop is from the attic tank and not the mains. I seen that once or twice, so they would`t go up to a bar or near it on filling. Is the pressure gauge working? Did you notice its reading before the rads were taken down?

Bruthal

In post #9 the photo of the cylinder shows the valve for the cylinder heating coil( on bottom pipe into cylinder), usually used to balance the coil as part of balancing the system, or for closing off the heating coil. It might be worth while making sure thats open to fascilitate filling the system. Turn it clockwise first, taking careful note of how many turns or fractions of turns it takes to close it if it is already open, so you can bring it back to the same position. Then fully open it by turning anticlockwise.

It should fill anyway by going up through the cylinder coil, but no harm having that valve fully open, and see can you get pressure up on the gauge then.

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

Yeah,the water is there at the filling loop.

I slightly opened the other end of the filling loop braided line with a spanner and the water started to pi55 out,so I tightened it back up.
straight away.
So there is deffinately water there.

That water could be coming out of the system itself even if the filling loop was in fact closed further back, although the fitting at the end of the braided filling hose looks like a 1 way valve.

Make sure water is not going out through the pressure release valve as well, its the red valve in the very first pic to the right of the pump, the pipe from it goes out through the wall. If this was releasing water, pressure wont come up. Just put on the filling loop and go out and make sure no water is coming out of it, it will be straight out through wall from boiler. Thats one thing that can cause the pressure not to come up when trying to fill the system, water flowing out somewhere else in the system.

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

That water could be coming out of the system itself even if the filling loop was in fact closed further back, although the fitting at the end of the braided filling hose looks like a 1 way valve.

Make sure water is not going out through the pressure release valve as well, its the red valve in the very first pic to the right of the pump, the pipe from it goes out through the wall. If this was releasing water, pressure wont come up. Just put on the filling loop and go out and make sure no water is coming out of it, it will be straight out through wall from boiler. Thats one thing that can cause the pressure not to come up when trying to fill the system, water flowing out somewhere else in the system.

Just checked outside the house and theres a drip or 2 of water comming out of the pressure release pipe allright.

Does that mean the red release valve is faulty or maybe stuck open then??

And how would I unstick it??

Thanks.:)

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

Just checked outside the house and theres a drip or 2 of water comming out of the pressure release pipe allright.

Does that mean the red release valve is faulty or maybe stuck open then??

And how would I unstick it??

Thanks.:)

It would be pouring out if it was stuck open when you turn on the filling loop. If there was just a drip, the system should still come up to pressure. Did you check it with the filling loop fully open?

tom thum

nophd08 wrote: »

All 3 valves need to be open to fill system, (not sure why 3 are fitted) Red handled gate valve on left of black valve, black valve itself, and (penny valve) the one on right of braided flexi. you'll need a screwdriver or (penny) to open that one.

the one on the right isnt a penny valve. No need to touch it. Looks as if you will have to get a plumber. Let us know what happens .

Bruthal

tom thum wrote: »

the one on the right isnt a penny valve. No need to touch it.

A non return valve by the look of it.

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

A non return valve by the look of it.

It has a directional arrow on it,so I ekon its a non return valve allright.

I think a plumber is needed at this stage,because Ive done all what was suggested here,and still nothing a thing.:(

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

It has a directional arrow on it,so I ekon its a non return valve allright.

I think a plumber is needed at this stage,because Ive done all what was suggested here,and still nothing a thing.:(

You could check the filling pipe, and trace it to see does it go into the mains water feed which it should really, i seen one or 2 fed from the attic tank, so they wont give good pressure when trying to fill.

Is it a bungalow as well?

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

You could check the filling pipe, and trace it to see does it go into the mains water feed which it should really, i seen one or 2 fed from the attic tank, so they wont give good pressure when trying to fill.

Is it a bungalow as well?

Its a 2 storey house.

Nothing in the attic,just the plastic water tank,all water taps/valves and that filling loop are down in with the cylinder tank.

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

Its a 2 storey house.

Nothing in the attic,just the plastic water tank,all water taps/valves and that filling loop are down in with the cylinder tank.

What i mean is follow the filling pipe back from the flexible connection, and see where its fed from. If you can.

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

What i mean is follow the filling pipe back from the flexible connection, and see where its fed from. If you can.

Oh right,thanks.:)

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

What i mean is follow the filling pipe back from the flexible connection, and see where its fed from. If you can.

The pipe that has the flexi filling loop on it goes back up to the attic water tank,and it goes into the bottom of the water tank in the attic.

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

The pipe that has the flexi filling loop on it goes back up to the attic water tank,and it goes into the bottom of the water tank in the attic.

Well others might have other opinions, but that will make it tricky to get a descent pressure on the system when just filling it, and which makes it harder to bleed out air. I believe its far better to be connected to the mains water feed going to the attic tank stop cock.

That way you can pressurise the system up to 1 bar easily, and then bleed out air etc. I would definitely change it over to the attic tank mains feed, likely a hydrodare most of the way up. Its a simple job to do that. You can leave the pipe down to the loop as it is.

Turn off the red valve, and black one as well, disconnect between the 2 valves, and then just T out of the mains feed in attic with a new pipe and into that black valve.

wing52

Paddy147, the boiler you have might have a separate on/off switch under

the flip down cover.

See if thats on.

paddy147

wing52 wrote: »

Paddy147, the boiler you have might have a separate on/off switch under

the flip down cover.

See if thats on.

Pics of boiler panel under the boiler.

wing52

Ahhhh! older than i thought.

No auto ignition.

is the pilot light lit?

Sorry,just read first post. pilots ok.

Did the decorators open the valve on both side of the rad/s?

tom thum

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well others might have other opinions, but that will make it tricky to get a descent pressure on the system when just filling it, and which makes it harder to bleed out air. I believe its far better to be connected to the mains water feed going to the attic tank stop cock.

That way you can pressurise the system up to 1 bar easily, and then bleed out air etc. I would definitely change it over to the attic tank mains feed, likely a hydrodare most of the way up. Its a simple job to do that. You can leave the pipe down to the loop as it is.

Turn off the red valve, and black one as well, disconnect between the 2 valves, and then just T out of the mains feed in attic with a new pipe and into that black valve.

+1. is the house a new one? if so, id ring the plumber and [EMAIL="f@:k"]f@:k[/EMAIL] him out of it. If he doesnt know that the filling loop should be off the mains pipe, he doesnt really deserve to be called a plumber. Id expect him to change it arounf for free.

paddy147

tom thum wrote: »

+1. is the house a new one? if so, id ring the plumber and f@:k him out of it. If he doesnt know that the filling loop should be off the mains pipe, he doesnt really deserve to be called a plumber. Id expect him to change it arounf for free.

House is a mid 1940s house and the heating system is about 10-11 years old at this stage.

A plumber is comming out tomorrow afternoon,hopefully.:)