Bronze Practice Partners Wanted!

Sykth

Hey All,

I'm a relative sc2 noob after some sparring partners to practise builds and matchups with!

I'm currently ranked 30th in my 1v1 league and I toss between zerg and terran races. If anyone would like to hit me up for a game let me know and I'll fire you through my details.

Cheers!

Decerto

Not to be disrespectful but the very easy ai is a perfect practice partner until high diamond, as the main thing keeping people out of diamond+ is the ability to execute standard build orders relatively perfect untill 50ish food(which isnt hard if u drill it 20/30 times in single player) and then macroing to 200/200 on 2/3base while keeping ur money low.

Also practicing with people for specific mathcups and builds before masters is almost redunant as from my experience no one does solid standard everyday builds, they all do crazy **** or standard timings which hit 2-3mins late, so the best way to practice for bronze/silver/gold/plat ladder is to play ladder

My advice would be to find the most standard builds for each XvX matchup you play and drill them in single player versus ai until you can execute them perfectly to 30/40 food then play ladder to get multitask, strategey and unit composition experience

That is if you are looking to improve otherwise disregard my whole post xD

Sykth

Thanks for your feedback

I've been relatively successful with the 3 rax pressure (stim) timing attack against protoss, I guess i'd best refine other builds versus other races.

Did you use force2strategy tutorials or anything like that when you were learning?

My macro is relatively ok until I shift onto 3 base or a heavy amount of micro is involved - still practice makes perfect!

Orizio

Feanor 980 if you wanna practice sometime, work on macro etc.

Decerto

Sykth wrote: »

Thanks for your feedback

I've been relatively successful with the 3 rax pressure (stim) timing attack against protoss, I guess i'd best refine other builds versus other races.

Did you use force2strategy tutorials or anything like that when you were learning?

My macro is relatively ok until I shift onto 3 base or a heavy amount of micro is involved - still practice makes perfect!

Nope just downloaded a replay pack of decent protoss player from team liquid and found out the most common build he used for each match up and learned each one perfect untill 30-40 food then just laddered with them

Sykth

Thanks Orizio appreciate it mate

Decerto - I'm getting close to locking down 1/1/1 and my 3 rax stim push is decent.

Progress is definitely being had - I only lost to a 6 pool (crap wall off by me :<) & mass cloaked banshees last night out of about 7 matches

VikingErik

I get a bit uncomfortable when people start talking about build orders. I have no doubt that they are necessary to get up to the higher levels to some extent, but I prefer to just freestyle my way up the ladder (without cheesing). I sometimes 4-gate out of safety in PvP but not in the truest sense as I try to keep probe production up.

I'm top of my division bronze player and would be happy to play against you, but I don't know that I can help you with specifics. PvT is my weakest matchup I think. If we were to play I might even be bothered to try and learn some build orders myself.

MilkRain 939

I don't play too much, but I think we might provide each other with enough challenge to improve each others play.

Khazidhea

You must have a build order. You can come up with your own, but probably you dont know much about the game to do that. Just steal some pro-build it's been worked out and polished so many times, why not? You will instantly get better just trying to keep up with it.

And build orders are usually just an opening. You need your plan for the whole game ready. Like unit composition and expansion timings, pokes, etc.

VikingErik

Khazidhea wrote: »

You must have a build order. You can come up with your own, but probably you dont know much about the game to do that. Just steal some pro-build it's been worked out and polished so many times, why not? You will instantly get better just trying to keep up with it.

And build orders are usually just an opening. You need your plan for the whole game ready. Like unit composition and expansion timings, pokes, etc.

I think that spending the little time I have to play the game to learn build orders and timings would probably kill the fun for me. It's not about the winning for me. I'm enjoying the personal development. I have some loose knowledge of some openings, but I don't follow anything to a T. Maybe once I have more time or hit a brick wall as far as progression is concerned then I might give it a go, but right now I'm just trying to focus on my own mechanics and micro. Leave all that memorising crap til later. I'm fairly good at making decisions on the fly so I do the best I can with that. I've no desire to be all "hard core" devoted to this game.

I don't mind being low level. And I can usually understand why I lose the games that I do and I try to learn from that.

Khazidhea

Yeah if time is the issue then by all means just have fun.

VikingErik

Khazidhea wrote: »

Yeah if time is the issue then by all means just have fun.

Also, I'm getting a great sense of achievement in seeing how far I can ladder "by myself", you know.

MrPink262

hey guys ime just getting my head around build orders, been getting my asse kicked since i left the practice leagues!!!

MrPink#861

thats me if anyone fancies a game or 2

ime terran which ime not really a very good one at that,

vikingerik thanks for the thread redirection

VikingErik

MrPink - I added you. Hope to battle it out soon.

Anyone who isn't going to the LAN might still want to be online on saturday night as a whole bunch of us at the LAN will be available for games and you'll have the opportunity to join or observe through the magic that is the internet.

IRL_Sinister

VikingErik wrote: »

MrPink - I added you. Hope to battle it out soon.

Anyone who isn't going to the LAN might still want to be online on saturday night as a whole bunch of us at the LAN will be available for games and you'll have the opportunity to join or observe through the magic that is the internet.

Why would people not go to the LAN but be available that night? Madness I tell you :>

VikingErik

IRL_Sinister wrote: »

Why would people not go to the LAN but be available that night? Madness I tell you :>

Some people are notoriously lazy and simply prefer sitting at home playing with no pants on :P

Or even if you have another engagement, you're not likely to be doing stuff past 4am anyway, so it's good to keep in mind that we'll be gaming all night online.

IRL_Sinister

VikingErik wrote: »

Some people are notoriously lazy and simply prefer sitting at home playing with no pants on :P

Or even if you have another engagement, you're not likely to be doing stuff past 4am anyway, so it's good to keep in mind that we'll be gaming all night online.

Oh, I have plans all night ^^

VikingErik

IRL_Sinister wrote: »

Oh, I have plans all night ^^

I'm happy for you.

Arciphel

Viking Eric and Mr Pink, I just added you both there, hope ye don't mind. I'm a bronze Terran/Protoss, in the 20's in Bronze but finding it hard to push on. The stuff Viking Eric was saying about not playing the game just by learning off other's build orders appealed to me so will try and hit you up for a few games soon.

RoyalMarine

arciphel, im in a similar position, i dont like "learning" other people's builds. I watch some replays etc, and pick up tips, but when i play i prefer to just go with what feels right for me.

VikingErik

Arciphel wrote: »

Viking Eric and Mr Pink, I just added you both there, hope ye don't mind. I'm a bronze Terran/Protoss, in the 20's in Bronze but finding it hard to push on. The stuff Viking Eric was saying about not playing the game just by learning off other's build orders appealed to me so will try and hit you up for a few games soon.

Was that you last night? Sorry I couldn't. I was trying to get through my bonus pool of points in the ladder so that I'd have a chance to level up.

I will admit that my openings is a weakness of mine as I always seem to be behind my opponent when it comes to throwing down buildings.
As much as I don't follow build orders, one thing to try to stick to is to always be making workers. As long as you do that you'll find that you'll only have enough money at certain points to build production buildings. And don't build more supply pylons/overlords/depots than you need.

Then I usually scout after first supply building. Unless you decide to expand first but that's not recommended when you're mechanics are mediocre as any early pressure will crush you because your build is not optimised so your units will be out slower. Scouting is KEY though. Look for early pool with zerg, saved up chrono boost and gateways with protoss (if protoss has forge or is missing gateway when you have reached his base then his buildings are close to your base = trouble) and with terran you want to look for the gas and possible what the second building is. If it's two barracks no gas then it could be a fast marine rush (at least in my mind). Keep your scout alive as long as you can or leave it somewhere between your base and opponents. If you face early pressure you might have to abandon the "always make workers"-rule.

You need to learn what to look for and try to stay one step ahead. I'm sure people will have comments on what I've just said but I've done ok so far.

Later on once you start losing too much and it gets you down then you can start doing build orders. But you want to learn your mechanics first in my opinion, cause it's very easy to lose track of build orders and unit production when ****e starts going down.

I am currently failing in building enough production buildings when I have 3+ bases. You want to be able to produce from every building all the time. If a building isn't being used then it's a waste, although this can be used as a diversion. You opponent is always making decisions based on what he scouts (if he scouts). I like building a robo bay, but avoiding colossi against terran, because he'll make vikings that have no purpose. Mind games!

As much as I make it sound like I'm just playing by ear, there still is a lot of thinking that needs to go into this game. I might try to learn a few build orders soon because I've noticed that I always get caught off guard early on.

I'll play you next time I see you online.

Tenger

IRL_Sinister wrote: »

Why would people not go to the LAN but be available that night? Madness I tell you :>

I'll be in another country.........:(

Tenger

Arciphel wrote: »

Viking Eric and Mr Pink, I just added you both there, hope ye don't mind. I'm a bronze Terran/Protoss, in the 20's in Bronze but finding it hard to push on.

I'll be able to cram in games on Thursay night late as well as Friday evening, Sat morning. I friended ye both (MilkRain/MrPink) already. Lets show these masters how bad us Bronzetowners can be!

Bramble 974.

saini

If yous want a bronze practice partner message me whenever I am on and i may be able to play.

Saini
996

Zombrex

I currently 1st in my Bronze league division, trying to get out into Silver, more than happy to play a practice with anyone.

Just add me as a friend on battle.net, Wick 810

Arciphel

I'll definetely be on tonight if anyone else is around.

Sykth

Wow - sort of half forgot about this thread ! If you guys are cool with it I'll start adding you all for practice and the craic tonight all being well?!

Think I already added feanor - but I changed race so was practicing with the AI to solidify a few builds

Hopefully see you all in game soon

Arciphel

Sykth, can you edit the first post and put in a list of all the Battle.net IDs of everyone that is interested? Cheers Buddy!

Ravage1616

Hey Guys, Feel free to add me, Just recently start playing again, played for a few weeks at launch and some how got into gold, think I've only won 2 games so not sure how that happened! But looking to get some practice in, haven't won a game in a long time! in game = Roare #260

Edit: just Got demoted to silver! Still loosing haha

Sykth

Sure thing Arciphel I'll get on it now!

Sykth

Hmm I can't seem to edit my original post? Very strange!

Anyways here is all the b.net friend codes of the kind gamers looking games:

Feanor 980
Milkrain 939
mrPink 861
Bramble 974
Saini 996
Wick 810
Roare 260
RoyalMarine 574

And my Id is: Sykth 649

Cheers say hey in game!

RoyalMarine

Sykth, hope you dont mind, i added myself to the list

Br4tPr1nc3

feel free to add me for a game,
im in silver league,
but i tend to take breaks from the game,
which kinda reset my level if ya know what i mean.

brimur69

Can you add my too Brimur 155. I'm a bronze level player who somehow got into Silver but play only 2 - 3 games a week so thats prob why I have not been put back into bronze yet

Sykth

Hey RoyalMarine,

no problem mate add away - the more the merrier I say

Brimur69 I don't have an edit option next to my own post ! Haven't been able to add you

Am I missing something totally noobie on boards? After a certain period of time I can't edit my own posts?

Anyways quick update - I've been practising larvae injects and concentrating on mass macro instead of baneling busts etc.

I went 7 - 0 against opponents who were all "favoured" above me! The power of macro!

I'm now 3rd in my bronze league Hit me up for some practice games - I'll be on at the weekend all being well!

RoyalMarine

cheers dude.

yeah after a certain time, 48 hours i think, you no longer have the ability to edit posts.

magicianz

Any bronze/silver online now? =] Yensil 799 =]

Tenger

I will be gaming for pretty much most of next Saturday (am away for work and in a hotel room from 1100-1800 barring food runs) I was planning to ladder the entire day, as I need to climb. (Just got dropped from 3 games so am a bit peeved)

So any other Bronze or Silver players available? We may even get the chance to try a Boards.ie Bronzers 2v2!

I think it would be an idea for a few of us to play each other, post the replay and let everyone else tear our play apart.......

Arciphel

Sorry, forgot to add my details :rolleyes:

wfhARCIPHEL code 255

Cheers, will add the rest of ye now...

Sykth

Side note - many thanks to everyone who has added me so far, especially to Saini who has been a real gem in helping me work out how to defend some nasty protoss/terran 1 base pushes Rank 1 Bronze *crosses fingers for promotion*

Gogo boards.ie community! Keep adding!

Shred 777

Hey Guys,

Im looking for some sc2 people to play/practise with, Im in bronze and just looking for any and all help to improve =]

Add Me!

Character: AnAngryOwl 938

EDIT: Added, Royalmarine, faenor, bramble, milkrain, mr.pink, sykth and wick

Hope you guys dont mind!

UnholyGregor

Decerto wrote: »

Not to be disrespectful but the very easy ai is a perfect practice partner until high diamond.

I agree with the point youre making, to an extent. Normally, below diamond league, mechanics and basic game skills are what holds players back.
I thing its wrong to advise people to only play vs ai though, as it doesnt really come close to real pvp practice. The best way to imporove, imo, is just to ladder non stop, as you get real experience vs players of similar skill, and this gives you something to measure your improvement against.

Playing solely v ai is a terrible suggestion i think, as its not even remotely similar to playing another person.
Occasionally though, it can be useful, for practicing hotkeys, mechanics etc. But i still think pvp is the best way to train.

Also, if you are below diamond league, dont concern yourself with practice partners, as theres really no need, since you are just plain bad at the game. Mass gaming is the only practice you need concern yourself with. Ladder. Ladder. Ladder.

Edit, pvp= person v person, not protoss v protoss........

godspal

I think that Diamond/Masters players saying "you don't need practice partners" and "you should play v. easy AI only" slightly insulting. Right we get it you're great, you are really, really good at the game, however when you are playing players who do these completely f***ed up builds:

-Mass Lings, double expand.
-4 Rax at their entrance, and MM push.
-Mass Ling, 3-4 Spine Crawlers all-in.
-2-Gate to Mass Void Rays.

You feel like really don't know what's going-on. I find that having a practice partner in bronze/silver/gold does two things, it improves your abilities at scouting, because if you practice the same couple of build 2-3 times, you know what you suppose to be looking for.

And it takes the pressure off laddering. Laddering is very exhausting. You win 5 matches in a row in an hour against standard builds. And then you come across a weird build and the game drags on for 45 minutes, and then you play one more game and you could be 6-pooled. So in 2 hours of gameplay, you are exhausted and extremely frustrated from these ridiculous types of strategies.

After that I have to say that having practice partners is the socialising aspect of the game, and therefore very important to continued enjoyment of the game. I wouldn't play the game half-as-much, if my only reward was beating a bunch of strangers. We all know there is nothing more rewarding than beating someone you've played for months, and haven't beaten once.

Edit: Oh btw, I am aware that certain types of builds beat my list of "f***ed up builds" but when you are playing players who are of similar calibre, that doesn't matter all that much.

UnholyGregor

All im saying is, below master league, practice partners (for the purpose of improving) are redundant.
And as to what you were saying regarding scouting, its pointless at a low level to try read your opponents build, as they normally make it up as they go along, because they know no better. Scouting info is only useful if your opponent is good, because you know that everything he does is key to the strategy, for optimal build efficiency, while a bad player might just make random units and attack, because he doesnt know what else to do.

godspal

@Unholygregor Surprisingly enough people who are not in the Masters league don't sit at the computer, put SC2 on, flail the mouse about, mash the keyboard, scream "computer go now!" and when we lose say: "me sad now!"

We know builds, actually about 90% players play with builds, our timings are off, our mechanics are poor, our understanding of the subtleties is off, and our in game decision making is poor.

Also to say don't pick a practice partner at the same level as you, while also saying play against people at the same level as you on the ladder is contradictory.

Finally saying that having practice partner out-side of the masters league is redundant is ridiculous. If 33% of silver league Protoss players use 4 gate pushes, and you always lose to 4-Gate push, how the hell are you ever going to beat it if you don't drill it over and over again.

Tenger

UnholyGregor wrote: »

........And as to what you were saying regarding scouting, its pointless at a low level to try read your opponents build, as they normally make it up as they go along, because they know no better.....

I think UnholyGregor has watched too many of my replays........

UnholyGregor

godspal wrote: »

Also to say don't pick a practice partner at the same level as you, while also saying play against people at the same level as you on the ladder is contradictory.

what im saying is, laddering is all you need to do if you want to improve, because it will match you with similarly skilled people. Whats the point in having a 'practice partner' when there's all the people in the world on the ladder for you to practice with.
Unless you want to practice a very specific build, and want your opponent to do something very specific, practice partners are useless. Since, below master league, and even in it for a lot of people, mechanics and macro is the problem, these specific issues are meaningless, therefore having a practice is pointless, in terms of improving.

I know what I'm saying probably comes across as very patronising and elitist, but I've been in the lower leagues, and i know what it takes to work your way up to masters. And practicing timing attacks with a practice partner is not what you should be focusing on.

The only players who actually need practice partners are pros, since they are just too good to get decent practice from ladder players

Khazidhea

I do love playing with practice partners. Training specific things and timings. Because on ladder it is random matchup, random map, random build. I train in specific matchup, doing specific build on a specific map. I think it is very effective and benefitial for both players. I do ask my partner to do something for me, like DT rushes when I FE, so I know how does it look like when I scout and when EXACTLY I need detection.

And I do play with AI. Just to practice a build BEFORE I go and play with a human. Takes a lot of pressure off, pretty much no multitasking, pure timings. And when I get this down I jump into real games. Btw I havent played in weeks and when I start playing again I will pick 2-3 builds for each matchup. Then I will warm up in custom games vs lower level opponents, on a smurf acc with lower ladder rating. Then I will pick 1 build and 1 map, practice that vs AI, get the timings, write them down. Then play same build, same map vs a practice partner a bunch. Then I will watch replays and check if I am hitting the timings right. And just analyze mistakes. Quite a lot of work I must say.

I agree on the point that if you are low level player ... you do not really need this. Because your opponents timings will be way off and just RANDOM. You want practice and get better - go play ladder A LOT.

The only real problem is the fear of ladder. I totally get it, happens to me all the time. And then I take a break or play some fun games. Btw yeah playing practice partners could be just that - play for fun. But most likely you are not really improving.

Well actually you can still practice in lower leagues. But I imagine it should be something like this. Say you practicing 3rax. First I would still practice it vs AI. And then against your partner YOU SHOULD COMPLETELY CRUSH HIM. Like no chance. And that is how it should be happening on ladder until you get to masters\high diamond\whatever.

And you talk about scouting. Just from personal experience - I completely dropped early game scouting because I did not understand what to look for. And was doing fine in masters. Then I learned a couple of things and now I scout again But say you do know what to look for. Like a lot of chronoboost, low probe count - he is 4gating. But no, he just played bad, forgot to chronoboost and build probes. And now you have these useless defenses or something.

You can just get 1 safe build and it will work sooo, sooo, soooooo good for you if you just do it right. And you will get into masters. There are some little things that are holding you back. Like supply blocks. If you do wanna improve and you do put a lot of time into the game. Just play more. Dont watch pros play, play yourself. Ah for me it just sounds like you are actually want to improve, but doing it wrong, sorry =\ Not trying to be insulting or offensive or anything.

The only time you should be worried is when something goes wrong BEFORE you hit your opponent with a timing attack. Like 6 pool. And you can practice vs that I guess. Just to know how to defend from it. But most of those things are pretty easy to defend and you dont need that special preparation. And again, if you hit your timings correctly you should just CRUSH, like completely one sided.


Oh ... and if you play just for fun, by all means play for fun The game is awesome.

P.S. I always end up writing huge posts trying to help, but rarely do I help =(

Decerto

UnholyGregor wrote: »

I agree with the point youre making, to an extent. Normally, below diamond league, mechanics and basic game skills are what holds players back.
I thing its wrong to advise people to only play vs ai though, as it doesnt really come close to real pvp practice. The best way to imporove, imo, is just to ladder non stop, as you get real experience vs players of similar skill, and this gives you something to measure your improvement against.

Playing solely v ai is a terrible suggestion i think, as its not even remotely similar to playing another person.
Occasionally though, it can be useful, for practicing hotkeys, mechanics etc. But i still think pvp is the best way to train.

Also, if you are below diamond league, dont concern yourself with practice partners, as theres really no need, since you are just plain bad at the game. Mass gaming is the only practice you need concern yourself with. Ladder. Ladder. Ladder.

Edit, pvp= person v person, not protoss v protoss........

You basically just said you disagreed with me and said i told people to soley play v the ai, then agreed with everything i actually said in my post, maybe read more than the first line

UnholyGregor

TL;DR
if you cant play the game, practice partners are a waste of time and effort

Orizio

UnholyGregor wrote: »

what im saying is, laddering is all you need to do if you want to improve, because it will match you with similarly skilled people. Whats the point in having a 'practice partner' when there's all the people in the world on the ladder for you to practice with.

(a) some of us haven't gotten the patience to deal with the rampant cheese and all round randomness of the ladder and (b) playing against far superior players is a good way to push yourself to improve, play faster and play better.

UnholyGregor

Orizio wrote: »

(a) playing against far superior players is a good way to push yourself to improve, play faster and play better.

can be good motivation, but usually, its pretty pointless just getting totally destroyed. A close, hard game is the best imo