Denis Lebedev vs. Roy Jones

Joe Musashi

Stream here:

http://kaban.tv/rossiya-2-online

Click on the play button on the right. The undercard is on now.

If Lebedev fights with intensity and isn't content with coasting I think he'll knock Roy Jones out.

gene_tunney

I think I love you.

Johner

I wish Roy Jones would just stop fighting.

Wild_Dogger

Im worried about that KO roy suffered .

Did you see the bruising around his temple from early on in the fight ?

I got a fright there

gene_tunney

Lettuce be cereal. Jones made a fool out of Lebedev. No chin, no legs, no stamina, and he still schooled Lebedev on numerous occassions.

brb making numerous gifs of 42 year old shot to **** Jones schooling prime Lebedev.

Joe Musashi

Roy Jones got knocked out cold in the last 10 seconds of the 10th round. Sick ending.

Denis fought within himself at times. If he upped the tempo and was more aggressive he would have got Jones out of there earlier.

megadodge

Not remotely surprised by the result, I just hope Jones now retires before he gets SERIOUSLY hurt.

nacho libre

the video package below is how I'll remember him regardless of what has happened over the last few years

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDWnMXzgeZo

djhaxman

Johner wrote: »

I wish Roy Jones would just stop fighting.

megadodge wrote: »

Not remotely surprised by the result, I just hope Jones now retires before he gets SERIOUSLY hurt.

Been saying this for a long time now. He's ruining what was an outstanding career and could get badly hurt if he keeps going.

eagle eye

Its terrible to see Roy Jones continue in the ring. The man has severely tarnished his legacy.

barney4001

this should surely be the end of roy jones senseless for him to keep taking beatings

walshb

Smoger ****ed up here. He should have been in earlier to stop that. The final shot was wicked. Jones was out of it 5 or 6 shots before the last shot.

Big reason I am a Toney fan, you just cannot KO the man. Impossible. Jones now been ko'd 4 or 5 times

joepenguin

Roy needs to stop before he gets seriously hurt. This seems like a cliche due to all the boxers that go on too long but in this case i seriously think that it is the case. He needs over 40 blown up feather fisted welters to fight, otherwise retire... PLEASE!

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

Big reason I am a Toney fan, you just cannot KO the man. Impossible. Jones now been ko'd 4 or 5 times

Perhaps Jones did not have the greatest punch resistance all along?, but due to his incredible reflexes and hand speed, during his peak, no one was capable of exposing this weakness till they waned..

pbffan

Weird that a 42 year old completely shot Roy Jones is willing to travel to Russia, move up in weight and face a monstrous puncher like Lebedev, while the prime version, who could easily have beaten him, would have avoided him for the sake of avoiding him

Daroxtar

nacho libre wrote: »

Perhaps Jones did not have the greatest punch resistance all along?, but due to his incredible reflexes and hand speed, during his peak, no one was capable of exposing this weakness till they waned..

I've said this before. At his peak he was almost impossible to hit, chances were that to hit him you would end up getting flattened yourself. The guys who could have taken his shots and given some back were avoided- Dariusz Michalczewski being the most prominent but the likes of Benn, Eubank and Collins would definately have caused him problems.

Moving up to HW and back down again too quickly probably messed up his punch resistance and definately took the edge off his footwork, reflexes and hand speed.

Its really a pity to see him continue to get hurt but he chose to do it so its on his own head. He's just the latest in a long line of greats who continued past where they should have stopped.

H. Flashman

smoger made a complete mess of that I don't know what he thought he was playing at, there's no way he should have let roy take that last shot ... i hope Roy finally quits now

cowzerp

His sparring partners would have known he had a bad punch resistance, time just catches some people easier than others and he faded fast.

nacho libre

cowzerp wrote: »

His sparring partners would have known he had a bad punch resistance, time just catches some people easier than others and he faded fast.

I wonder though is the Ruiz fight used as an excuse for his speed and reflexes waning? Perhaps Tarver was the first guy he faced who was capable of testing his chin? I thought he avoided the likes of Collins and Benn because he thought they couldn't draw money, but maybe it's for the reason Daroxtar mentioned.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Big reason I am a Toney fan, you just cannot KO the man. Impossible. Jones now been ko'd 4 or 5 times

You'll just never forgive Jones for that easy win over Toney will you?

megadodge

nacho libre wrote: »

I wonder though is the Ruiz fight used an excuse for his speed and reflexes waning? Perhaps Tarver was the first guy he faced who was capable of testing his chin? I thought he avoided the likes of Collins and Benn because he thought they couldn't draw money, but maybe it's for the reason Daroxtar mentioned.

Avoided Benn???

When did Benn ever mention wanting to fight Jones?

Never.

At least Collins (when he knew he was near retirement) wanted to fight him knowing it was a huge payday.

Jones fought and beat 17 past, current or future world champs (WBC, WBA, IBF) (only 2 WBOs) before Tarver beat him and you're honestly trying to tell me that Tarver was the first one who was capable of hitting him?????

I've said it a million times, but if a guy has a bad chin it's going to be found out an AWFUL lot sooner than FIFTEEN BLOODY YEARS into his career when he's 35 years of age!!!!

gene_tunney

Prime RJJ did not have a bad chin. Please watch his fights. In their first fight Tarver tagged him with big shots a good few times and didn't hurt him.

Prime RJJ would destroy Benn. I really can't see anyone beating him at SMW, prime for prime.

nacho libre

megadodge wrote: »

Avoided Benn???

When did Benn ever mention wanting to fight Jones?

Never.

At least Collins (when he knew he was near retirement) wanted to fight him knowing it was a huge payday.

Jones fought and beat 17 past, current or future world champs (WBC, WBA, IBF) (only 2 WBOs) before Tarver beat him and you're honestly trying to tell me that Tarver was the first one who was capable of hitting him?????

I've said it a million times, but if a guy has a bad chin it's going to be found out an AWFUL lot sooner than FIFTEEN BLOODY YEARS into his career when he's 35 years of age!!!!

I was mistaken it seems. I thought Benn wanted to fight him. Sorry.
When Jones was in his prime though not many could hit him with successive clean shots. He was truly a class apart. Even Calzaghe would not have able to deal with his hand speed and footwork.

So maybe, as hard as it seems to believe, his chin was never properly tested in that time?
I think fighters were really only able to land cleanly on him once his speed and reflexes started to diminish after the Ruiz fight. I just don't see though how his punch resistance could suddenly have evaporated after the Ruiz fight. Maybe I'm wrong though and that's what actually happened.

I think Tarver, rather than having the ability to compete with Jones, was just lucky to be facing Jones when he was on the way down.

clubwelly

The worst is this might not be Roy's last fight. In April it was announced he owed the tax man big bucks from his fights back in 2002 & 2003. I read that its a total of $3.5m and I know he got $500k for this fight.

nacho libre

clubwelly wrote: »

The worst is this might not be Roy's last fight. In April it was announced he owed the tax man big bucks from his fights back in 2002 & 2003. I read that its a total of $3.5m and I know he got $500k for this fight.

Ah so this is why he's back doing commentary on HBO. Going by what you say what he's being paid by them obviously isn't enough. A sad situation.

walshb

Can someone please post a clip of Roy in his prime taking a full and flush shot, heavy? I don't think he did, or had to. Now, not dissing him for this, but I think Roy's chin was never great, just at peak he was so elusive and difficult to hit clean. Clay was slagged off in his early years by the fans as not able to take a shot, juts because he didn't take them, but he did show that his chin was grade A in his time. Roy didn't.

colly10

walshb wrote: »

Can someone please post a clip of Roy in his prime taking a full and flush shot, heavy? I don't think he did, or had to. Now, not dissing him for this, but I think Roy's chin was never great, just at peak he was so elusive and difficult to hit clean.

It would take a while to find a clip, especially seeing as tough shots having no effect wouldn't be as obvious. The guy had around 50 fights before Tarver, to say that he wasn't hit with a solid shot in any of them is hard to believe.

Kess73

walshb wrote: »

Can someone please post a clip of Roy in his prime taking a full and flush shot, heavy? I don't think he did, or had to. Now, not dissing him for this, but I think Roy's chin was never great, just at peak he was so elusive and difficult to hit clean. Clay was slagged off in his early years by the fans as not able to take a shot, juts because he didn't take them, but he did show that his chin was grade A in his time. Roy didn't.

Would have to go looking through some old dvds but I am fairly certain that he took some heavy flush shots in his fights against Hopkins (first one), Mavinga, and against Griffin (first fight)

weemcd

Jr fought professionally for 15 years before being defeated by tko. In this time, he fought Hopkins, (currently 34 KO's) Toney (44 KO's) & Ruiz (30 KO's) Without even mentioning anybody else he fought, these 3 are 3 of his better wins opponent wise.

The point im trying to make is, if after approx 50 professional fights & 15 years without a knockout loss on your C.V someone would have to be medically insane to suggest Jones did not have an excellent chin for at least an extended part of his career.

walshb

weemcd wrote: »

Jr fought professionally for 15 years before being defeated by tko. In this time, he fought Hopkins, (currently 34 KO's) Toney (44 KO's) & Ruiz (30 KO's) Without even mentioning anybody else he fought, these 3 are 3 of his better wins opponent wise.

The point im trying to make is, if after approx 50 professional fights & 15 years without a knockout loss on your C.V someone would have to be medically insane to suggest Jones did not have an excellent chin for at least an extended part of his career.

Yes, but the point is, was Jones ever really tageed flush and heavy by good hitters?

Toney? Hardly scored at all. Bhop the same.

I could go 15 years undefeated, but IF I never really tasted heavy leather, can we claim a rock solid or grade A chin? No.

Again, all credit to Roy for 15 years and not being Ko'd. I just don't believe that his chin was ever top notch. Good? Yes, but not solid.

I wouldn't be confident of him taking shots off Benn, McClellan, Jackson etc. That is why I feel guys like this would be very dangerous for him. Now, not many can take shots from those mentioned. Hagler I think would, and comfortably. Toney too.

I also think the KO losses he suffered weren't from the mightiest of shots. They were good shots, but far from belters.

Fall_Guy

walshb wrote: »

Yes, but the point is, was Jones ever really tageed flush and heavy by good hitters?

Toney? Hardly scored at all. Bhop the same.

I could go 15 years undefeated, but IF I never really tasted heavy leather, can we claim a rock solid or grade A chin? No.

Again, all credit to Roy for 15 years and not being Ko'd. I just don't believe that his chin was ever top notch. Good? Yes, but not solid.

I wouldn't be confident of him taking shots off Benn, McClellan, Jackson etc. That is why I feel guys like this would be very dangerous for him. Now, not many can take shots from those mentioned. Hagler I think would, and comfortably. Toney too.

I also think the KO losses he suffered weren't from the mightiest of shots. They were good shots, but far from belters.

Personally I think his punch resistance has faded over time (its happened to others, and isn't unheard of).

But if you think that he managed to avoid taking any decent shots off some really class fighters like hopkins and toney, does it matter if he had a great chin or not? I don't think Benn or McClellan would have any more chance of landing cleanly on him then the other top fighters he fought when in his prime, so it seems a moot point.

walshb

Fall_Guy wrote: »

Personally I think his punch resistance has faded over time (its happened to others, and isn't unheard of).

But if you think that he managed to avoid taking any decent shots off some really class fighters like hopkins and toney, does it matter if he had a great chin or not? I don't think Benn or McClellan would have any more chance of landing cleanly on him then the other top fighters he fought when in his prime, so it seems a moot point.

Exaclty, it is a moot point, because I don't believe you can say his chin was grade A when at peak he never tasted real leather. All credit to him for that.

Put it this way. I would back G-Man to take Roy out at middle. G-Man had a solid beard, and wicked power, very strong, aggressive. I do not see Roy taking a flush shot from G-Man, so Roy would need to avoid his flush shots to win. Could he? Yes, but a betting man would back the big puncher.

Similar with Hearns. I would never be confident with Tommy in against Gerald, or any other strong heavy handed middle.

colly10

walshb wrote: »

so Roy would need to avoid his flush shots to win. Could he? Yes, but a betting man would back the big puncher.

And the betting man would loose their savings. If you believe Roy had no chin but noone could test it in 50 fights then this fight would have been no different, either he lands and Roy can actually take it or as you believe - he would fail to land flush like all the rest

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Exaclty, it is a moot point, because I don't believe you can say his chin was grade A when at peak he never tasted real leather. All credit to him for that.

Put it this way. I would back G-Man to take Roy out at middle. G-Man had a solid beard, and wicked power, very strong, aggressive. I do not see Roy taking a flush shot from G-Man, so Roy would need to avoid his flush shots to win. Could he? Yes, but a betting man would back the big puncher.

Similar with Hearns. I would never be confident with Tommy in against Gerald, or any other strong heavy handed middle.

McClellan and Jones fought in the amateurs and the fight was described by John 'Ice Man' Scully (former world title challenger and regular guest analyst in Boxing News) as the greatest fight he ever saw pro or amateur (obviously loads of exchanges). He trained with McClellan 3 weeks later and Gerald couldn't spar as his jaw was still hurting him - and McClellan WON the split decision.

So purely on the chin issue logically this would suggest if G-man was hit that hard and hurt that much he must have landed some serious leather himself in return to actually win the match.

And yes I know "that's the amateurs". Can you actually prove that McClellan wasn't a serious puncher then though?

On another point, you have always maintained this consistent point of view of backing the puncher v the boxer. That's fine, but I think results over the years would prove you very wrong. Give me a good boxer any day over a good puncher. You can't hurt what you can't hit.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Exaclty, it is a moot point, because I don't believe you can say his chin was grade A when at peak he never tasted real leather. All credit to him for that.

By the exact same logic, I don't believe you can say his chin WASN'T grade A at peak either - if as you say he never tasted real leather. Where's the proof?

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Similar with Hearns. I would never be confident with Tommy in against Gerald, or any other strong heavy handed middle.

Hearns is the perfect example of a brilliant boxer who actually had an iffy chin. In many people's eyes he was one of the best pure boxers you could ever see (I agree), and he sure wasn't hit very often, but when he was, even by some 'ordinary' punchers.....

I don't see any similar incidents in Jones career.

It also didn't stop Tommy destroying some huge punchers in his career, which justifies the boxer v puncher argument again.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

On another point, you have always maintained this consistent point of view of backing the puncher v the boxer. That's fine, but I think results over the years would prove you very wrong. Give me a good boxer any day over a good puncher. You can't hurt what you can't hit.

I may have had this view, possibly still do, BUT, I do emphasise that a great boxer with the chin IMO most times beats the less great boxer with the punch. So, it is not just the puncher beats the boxer, it's the puncher generally beats the boxer when the boxers chin is not all that good.

Eubank and Watson showed this vs Benn. I would also back Toney to school G-Man, Jackson and Benn; because Toney's so durable, tough, defensively sound and iron chinned. I would be very nervous if I was Roy's trainer should he meet these men at 160 lbs as a pro. Roy would have all the skills necessary, but I am just not convinced that the chin would survive flush shots. Yes, this logic is taken from the fact that Roy suffered bad KO losses in the past 6-7 years, but still, they will have some bearing when assessing him vs. other fighters at peak.

gene_tunney

Conclusive evidence that Roy had a chin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UEtWnFFaZs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IRwQADvvcY

EDIT: for embed

eagle eye

Two good videos there that prove beyond doubt that Roy had a jaw. Don't know why anybody was even questioning that tbh. I remember so many of his fights before he went to heavyweight and he got tagged plenty of times. And in the early days of his reign I was always worried that he could get stopped because he was playing basketball on the days of fights and you'd think that the effort he put in on the BB court would affect his stamina resulting in less punch resistance but it was never the case.

Two sad moments for me in his career, firstly having anything to do with Don King who he said for years he would never have anythign to do with and then going on after he won the heavyweight title. That was the time for him to hang up the gloves.

Everything since then has just been sad for me and its definitely affected his legacy. He was the best I've ever seen but the memories are tarnished by him continuing long after it was time to quit.