Misogyny vs "self-expression"

Teddy_Picker

Some of you Loungers probably have already heard US rapper Tyler the Creator, whose new album, Goblin, is released this week. It has caused a stir, thanks to its rather gruesome misogynistic and homophobic lyrical content, for example: (apologies) "F*** her in a hummer while I rape her and put her in a slumber/ It's not a figure of speech when I tell you that I dumped her."

Many apologists have come out and defended Goblin's horrible content as art, and that anything is fair game. Tyler himself denies being either a sexist or homophobe, and that his lyrics are just self-expression, as seen in this Guardian piece.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/may/07/tyler-the-creator-odd-future?intcmp=239

What do Loungers think? Can such repellent lyrics be judged as having artistic merit? Is this legitimate self-expression? Or is it plain bigotry, no matter how hard you try to dress it up?

LenaClaire

This is not really an either/or discussion. You can have freedom to say what you want and still be misogynistic and full of hate.

Just because you are singing it or putting it into poetry does not change the vitriol behind the statement. It may be art but he still has to stand by what he is saying.

For him to say he can sing what he wants and that it will have no influence/repercussion just because it is sung is just cowardly. If he wants to make misogynistic statements that is his human right but to hide behind the freedom of art and say that because it is sung it is not hurtful is just stupid.

Otis Driftwood

In my opinion people like that are in the same bracket as "musicians" like Necro(misogynistic,homophobic rap),Johnny Rebel (KKK loving,racist country music) or Skrewdriver (neo nazi punk).

No real talent other than the ability to spout small minded and bigoted crap in order to sell records.

Its a sad fact of life that people have bought albums from the above and with the controversy surrounding Tyler the Creator will likely result in him selling a helluva lot more albums than he would have done.

Its is a conundrum.

On one hand,the above are messages full of hate and whether they really mean what they are saying or not some people will take them seriously which is dangerous.

On the other hand,they have the right to free speech,no matter what it is they are saying,constitutional law states they can say it.

I dont think anything will be done though as women and homosexuals are easy targets and in many places its still perfectly acceptable to deride them.

I also think its the times we live in.

People like Eminem opened the floodgates.Some of his stuff is highly misogynistic and full of descriptions of rape,torture and murder of his mother and ex wife yet he is a multi million album selling artist and probably the most successful rapper of the last decade.

Some of you may remember the furore in the early 90s when Ice T's metal band Bodycount released their debut album which included a track called Cop Killer.The press in the States went bat shít mental and the album ended up being recalled and the track deleted before Warners would put it out and IIRC,Warners ended up cancelling Ice T's contract as a result of the controversy.

It goes to show that when certain sections of society (in this instance cops would have primarily been caucasian men) are targeted then it is possible for the media to make changes and for music executives to do the right thing.

This time round though I dont think anything will happen other then yer man making more money than he deserves.

Tis a great world we live in alright.
:rolleyes:

KyussBishop

Sounds pretty standard for a rap album (not defending it of course ), there is an enormous amount of such stuff produced; reminds me a little of the Fur-Q sketch in The Day Today (NSFW):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni3bPWH5tFg

In the end, people have the right to freedom of expression etc., and while this stuff has 0 artistic merit and is completely bigoted etc., all you can do is ignore it and/or make fun of it;
the guys already made a success out of it just through the negative press alone.

Teddy_Picker

jujibee wrote: »

For him to say he can sing what he wants and that it will have no influence/repercussion just because it is sung is just cowardly. If he wants to make misogynistic statements that is his human right but to hide behind the freedom of art and say that because it is sung it is not hurtful is just stupid.

This.

It really grinds my gears when people use freedom of art to absolve themselves of all censure of their offensive material.

KyussBishop wrote: »

Sounds pretty standard for a rap album (not defending it of course ), there is an enormous amount of such stuff produced; reminds me a little of the Fur-Q sketch in The Day Today (NSFW):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni3bPWH5tFg

Har! That Day Today vid is class (and not a million miles away from a Tyler the Creator performance!)

Sara Quin (of Tegan & Sara fame) wrote a great riposte to him:
http://revelandriot.com/news/a-call-for-change-by-sara-quin-47889