Customer service from garage during engine fix...

nutts_77

This is half rant/ half inquiry related. I apologise for any waffle....
I have a citroen c4 1.6hdi van, 2006. Over a month ago it developed a severe miss, and starting cutting out. An emission fault showed on dash. I left it into my usual garage (who used to be a citroen dealer, pre recession) and asked him to have a look. He told me it would be a sensor problem and would be easy fix. When I called back, I was informed that they couldn't identify the problem and would continue to look for it. Over the next 2-3 weeks when I contacted the garage, I was informed that they were trying different fixes including changing the fuse box (excuse my lack of technical knowledge..)
About 2 weeks ago, I was told that the injectors were the problem. The next time I contacted them, i was told that 2 injectors were faulty due to bad diesel. One of the injectors had been taken out but the other one was stuck tight due to heat, and they were having trouble removing it. I called in a few times and they showed me the ongoing works.
A week later when I contacted them I was told that the problem injector still couldn't be got out, and the head would have to be taken off and sent to an engineer works to have the injector machined out. When I asked how much all this was going to cost, I was told that new injectors were roughly 150 each and the other works and fitting would have to be paid. I inquired about putting in a second hand engine, and was told that it might cost 600 plus fitting. The boss said he would price an engine and get back to me.
That was wed 11th. I was then away for weeks holiday, so on wed 18th, I rang but no answer. On Thurs 19th I rang and got speaking with Boss. He tells me that my van has been fixed since mon 16th, and he's been driving it about to make sure all is ok. He tells me that 2 new injectors have been put in, and the other 2 have been reconditioned. I ask for price and he says office will contact me. I get call later from receptionist who tells me to make sure I'm sitting, and then she lets me know that i owe them 2,029euro. This is made up according to her of over 1000 euro of new parts and 750 euro of labour. I was expecting a large bill in excess of 100-1200 euro but this total figure was a bit of a shock. I told her I'd be in contact later today.

I want to say that I have used this garage a few times and have always been very happy. I had no major panic to get the van fixed and garage knew this, so I wasn't hounding them every day. I was in contact every week, and sometimes a few times each week, and I even inquired about total cost. But the first estimate turns out to be the final bill of over 2k. Am I being over sensitive or is this acceptable???

I do intend to meet with the garage boss and look for as detailed as possible breakdown of each cost incurred. I would be grateful for any advice, due to my limited technical knowledge...

Rant over... Thanks for staying tuned......

duffman13

nutts_77 wrote: »

This is half rant/ half inquiry related. I apologise for any waffle....
I have a citroen c4 1.6hdi van, 2006. Over a month ago it developed a severe miss, and starting cutting out. An emission fault showed on dash. I left it into my usual garage (who used to be a citroen dealer, pre recession) and asked him to have a look. He told me it would be a sensor problem and would be easy fix. When I called back, I was informed that they couldn't identify the problem and would continue to look for it. Over the next 2-3 weeks when I contacted the garage, I was informed that they were trying different fixes including changing the fuse box (excuse my lack of technical knowledge..)
About 2 weeks ago, I was told that the injectors were the problem. The next time I contacted them, i was told that 2 injectors were faulty due to bad diesel. One of the injectors had been taken out but the other one was stuck tight due to heat, and they were having trouble removing it. I called in a few times and they showed me the ongoing works.
A week later when I contacted them I was told that the problem injector still couldn't be got out, and the head would have to be taken off and sent to an engineer works to have the injector machined out. When I asked how much all this was going to cost, I was told that new injectors were roughly 150 each and the other works and fitting would have to be paid. I inquired about putting in a second hand engine, and was told that it might cost 600 plus fitting. The boss said he would price an engine and get back to me.
That was wed 11th. I was then away for weeks holiday, so on wed 18th, I rang but no answer. On Thurs 19th I rang and got speaking with Boss. He tells me that my van has been fixed since mon 16th, and he's been driving it about to make sure all is ok. He tells me that 2 new injectors have been put in, and the other 2 have been reconditioned. I ask for price and he says office will contact me. I get call later from receptionist who tells me to make sure I'm sitting, and then she lets me know that i owe them 2,029euro. This is made up according to her of over 1000 euro of new parts and 750 euro of labour. I was expecting a large bill in excess of 100-1200 euro but this total figure was a bit of a shock. I told her I'd be in contact later today.

I want to say that I have used this garage a few times and have always been very happy. I had no major panic to get the van fixed and garage knew this, so I wasn't hounding them every day. I was in contact every week, and sometimes a few times each week, and I even inquired about total cost. But the first estimate turns out to be the final bill of over 2k. Am I being over sensitive or is this acceptable???

I do intend to meet with the garage boss and look for as detailed as possible breakdown of each cost incurred. I would be grateful for any advice, due to my limited technical knowledge...

Rant over... Thanks for staying tuned......

Fook, I got a second hand engine supplied and fitted recently for about 800 quid. That is a crazy price considering all indications given by the garage about parts and labour I would have assumed about €1000. With such a significant amount of work required and given the expense, I would not be happy with the lack of a phone call before the work was carried out.

This gives you no opportunity to compare prices from others or even take an alternative route i.e a second hand engine. I would go to the garage and get a detailed break down and express your disappointment no phone call was made to give you a price. Then maybe consult another mechanic. Considering the current level of business for most garages, I find that appalling customer service if you were not given a price before the work was carried out!

freestyla

as Duff said.. Considering the current level of business for most garages, I find that appalling customer service if you were not given a price before the work was carried out!

You were very well approaching them weekly even more often and according the information you got during that time, you could expect 1000eur bill - 2000eur is double that :mad:

I'm actually looking for some engine parts / or second hand engine right now and must admit cold truth about unprofessional and too indifferent customer service almost everywhere in this country - wouldnt moan much but then it always hits a customer in the face with huge numbers

nutts_77

Thanks for the posts. Was wondering was that standard practice and I should just bend over and take it...
Am still not happy with the fact that for the cost of the parts I could have had a second hand engine installed which would be a sealed unit..
And I know I prob don't have a leg to stand on, but am I liable for parts which were fitted but proved unnecessary, such as the fuse box? And the amount of labour incurred identifying the problem? They spent first 2 weeks trying to find the sensor that was faulty, instead of reading what the sensors were telling them....

Muckie

Jesus, that is a steep bill to have to pay.

It aint right, they sound like there trying to get you to pay for while

they were playing "swap the sensor" or one of five things why it won't

work. Put it up to them about the price and lack of customer care you

were given. Maybe legal route if no joy.

mickdw

To be fair, I would have been getting scared of the bill as soon as they said they couldnt find the fault and would continue to look for it. I would have given them no more than another half day before doing something different.
The way this carried on did point to a big bill coming at you.

AzureAuto

Sounds like a poor operation altogether.
If it were me I'd get the boss man and the mechanics who worked on it to sit down and go through their "deduction" process for identifying the fault. Then you can eliminate the parts that were fitted wrongly and have them deduct them from the bill.
The fact that it took them weeks to identify 2 faulty injectors, when a 10 minute diagnostic plug in and a consequent compression check to eliminate compression issues and then a cylinder leak off test, (altogether 2 hrs MAX) would have narrowed the issue down to the injectors.
Tell them this, then ask why they have gone around the houses?
Monkeys.

DaveJac

taking the head off is where the bill would have jumped so high, there is going to be a charge from the engineering company that the garage will put a mark up on, then when your putting your head back on your going to need new gaskets timing belts or chains ect parts price wouldnt be long racking up, and make sure that they did use all new gaskets ect when putting the engine back together

taintabird

nutts_77 wrote: »

This is half rant/ half inquiry related. I apologise for any waffle....
I have a citroen c4 1.6hdi van, 2006. Over a month ago it developed a severe miss, and starting cutting out. An emission fault showed on dash. I left it into my usual garage (who used to be a citroen dealer, pre recession) and asked him to have a look. He told me it would be a sensor problem and would be easy fix. When I called back, I was informed that they couldn't identify the problem and would continue to look for it. Over the next 2-3 weeks when I contacted the garage, I was informed that they were trying different fixes including changing the fuse box (excuse my lack of technical knowledge..)
About 2 weeks ago, I was told that the injectors were the problem. The next time I contacted them, i was told that 2 injectors were faulty due to bad diesel. One of the injectors had been taken out but the other one was stuck tight due to heat, and they were having trouble removing it. I called in a few times and they showed me the ongoing works.
A week later when I contacted them I was told that the problem injector still couldn't be got out, and the head would have to be taken off and sent to an engineer works to have the injector machined out. When I asked how much all this was going to cost, I was told that new injectors were roughly 150 each and the other works and fitting would have to be paid. I inquired about putting in a second hand engine, and was told that it might cost 600 plus fitting. The boss said he would price an engine and get back to me.
That was wed 11th. I was then away for weeks holiday, so on wed 18th, I rang but no answer. On Thurs 19th I rang and got speaking with Boss. He tells me that my van has been fixed since mon 16th, and he's been driving it about to make sure all is ok. He tells me that 2 new injectors have been put in, and the other 2 have been reconditioned. I ask for price and he says office will contact me. I get call later from receptionist who tells me to make sure I'm sitting, and then she lets me know that i owe them 2,029euro. This is made up according to her of over 1000 euro of new parts and 750 euro of labour. I was expecting a large bill in excess of 100-1200 euro but this total figure was a bit of a shock. I told her I'd be in contact later today.

I want to say that I have used this garage a few times and have always been very happy. I had no major panic to get the van fixed and garage knew this, so I wasn't hounding them every day. I was in contact every week, and sometimes a few times each week, and I even inquired about total cost. But the first estimate turns out to be the final bill of over 2k. Am I being over sensitive or is this acceptable???

I do intend to meet with the garage boss and look for as detailed as possible breakdown of each cost incurred. I would be grateful for any advice, due to my limited technical knowledge...

Rant over... Thanks for staying tuned......

Sounds like your original problem was an injector washer failure (washer that seals between the bottom of the injector and the cylinder head) which is common on the 1.6 hdi engine and can lead to bigger problems such as excess carbon build up around the injector making it very difficult to remove which seems to be the case with yours.

BostonB

Appalling customer service to run up a bill of 2K without a customer permission or any warning. I think I'd be kicking up a big fuss to get that reduced. If theyIt sharp practice in my opinion, I'd get legal advice and take it o the small courts if they don't reduced it a lot. My guess is a judge would have a dim view on it aswell.

Voodoomelon

mickdw wrote: »

To be fair, I would have been geting scared of the bill as soon as they said they couldnt find the fault and would continue to look for it. I would have given them no more than another half day before doing something different.
The way this carried on did point to a big bill coming at you.

I thought the very same. Having a car/van at a garage, especially a former dealer, for a week, let alone for 3 weeks would have alarm bells ringing in terms of labour costs.

mondeo

I would have pulled the van out after 2 or 3 days. You must have been a very polite kind of person who they probably knew could get a few quid out of you.

I would refuse to pay it, no fu*kn way would I pay that bill.

-Chris-

It seems like you were in contact with them several times over the course of the repairs.


At any stage, did you ask "how much will all this cost?" or did you give any instructions like "if it's going to cost more than €x, call me before going ahead with the work"?

On the 11th he suggested a new engine would cost €600 + fitting. Did you ask how much fitting would be?

On the 18th he talked you through what had been done instead of fitting a new engine (replaced 2 injectors, reconditioned the other 2). Has he given an idea of how much this work is worth - i.e. is it less than the cost of a new engine + fitting?

Vertakill

Yeah, regarding the engine replacement... he said that was doable @ 600 + fitting. Fitting is not going to cost 1400.

So, has he knowingly and purposely gone for the more expensive option with the injectors and all the labour involved to bring the bill up to 2000 rather than go for the engine replacement?

Sounds a bit off to me.

andyseadog

what a ****ty mess.

as above, it sounds like they spend a time swapping parts over etc and faffing around.

any parts that the may have ordered in to fix the problem that were not related to the problem (you mentioned a fuse box, possibly others) you do not have to pay for. however the garage will be out of pocket for these, so naturally they are going to try to recoup the costs through you. you need to do you best to figure out what these parts are on the bill and tell them you don't have to and will not pay for their misdiagnosis.

there will also be a lot of labour time involved in the fitting and trial and error with messing with all the wrong parts above, so really you don't have to pay for that either, but determining diagnostic labour costs can be a difficult area at the best of times with some problems. having said that, bring a citroen to a recently ex-citroen dealer you would expect a certain level of product knowledge/ efficiency so really you need to find out what the actual problem was (the two injectors) find out any direct costings related to this and that is what you have to pay for.

maybe if you call in tomorrow or over the phone and ask for a full breakdown of the bill, all parts/ labour/ sub contract work involved we can throw an eye over it for you and let you know where they are taking the piss. your more than within your rights to ask for a breakdown of costings before you hand over any money, never mind 2 forking grand!

nutts_77 wrote:

I get call later from receptionist who tells me to make sure I'm sitting

a definite tell tale sign that they were wary or nervous of the price they were giving you and they know they are chancing their arm.

when you contact them, go in and be polite but firm (nobody will do you any favours if you go in immediately ranting and raving and threatening legal on them), tell them you want a copy of the bill and you want to be talked through where all the costings went. post up the findings here, then go back, tell them you know x, y and z was un necessary and you wont be paying.

also, ask if they knew a good condition second hand engine would cost 600 + approx another 6-800 fitting, why would they let repair work on the existing engine run into hundreds more than that. it really sounds like they were in too deep and stood to lose a lot on parts.

best of luck!