Are diesels just a waste of time and money?

Damokc

considering the amount of trouble they give and the cost of fuel pumps,turbos clutches DM flywheels and the such? is it just better to bite the petrol price bullet and just stick with petrol?

OR... is there a super duper reliable diesel out there?

Browney7

In before the Skoda Octavia...

michael s15

ive had 4 petrol cars and not had a bother with any of them

and ive had a diesel van and has been nothing but trouble for me has cost me around 800 to fix all niggling bits

but id say its more of the **** dealer that got it doe than anything else

id probaly still just stick with the van these days

galwaytt

Damokc wrote: »

considering the amount of trouble they give and the cost of fuel pumps,turbos clutches DM flywheels and the such? is it just better to bite the petrol price bullet and just stick with petrol?

OR... is there a super duper reliable diesel out there?

To the former point........you're right: they're all grief, a small lean petrol is simpler, cheaper. If looking at a small car, the likes of a Fabia 1.2 is mean on juice anyway.

To the latter point........mmmm, not for a while imho, but you could do worse than a Ford. (e.g. VAG )

Damokc

damn..should have seen that coming!! big boot too by all means

kirving

Well, it depends on the car, it's fuel economy, and how much milage you're doing.

Although DMF's, DPF's and Turbo's are expensive when they do go, I think their reliability and lifespan are brought up too often by people who don't like diesel full stop. Honestly, I don't know the reliability stats, but I don't think it's as bad as people make out.

Nissan doctor

I think the vast majority of modern diesel issues are down to the vehicles being used for the wrong purpose and incorrect maintenance.

Mortorway/major road longer distance commutes or high mileage use then get a diesel.

City driving/commuting and short trips to shops or whatever, get a petrol.

As long as its not a large petrol engine then the fuel consumption would only be marginally more the a diesel but the maintenance costs would be much less.

THall04

Damokc wrote: »

considering the amount of trouble they give and the cost of fuel pumps,turbos clutches DM flywheels and the such? is it just better to bite the petrol price bullet and just stick with petrol?

OR... is there a super duper reliable diesel out there?

Have you owned a diesel? What makes/models give all these problems????

A few years ago I swapped my 1.8 petrol for a 2.0 diesel(both mid size family saloons) and immediately saved 25% on fuel costs.
In addition to being cheaper to run , the car tax cost only half that of the petrol and had an extra 55bhp
In just over 2 years , and 37K miles , its cost me no more in maintenance than any petrol engine'd car I've ever had and I've had none...not one ...problem with it.......and its a VAG unit (and it got some abuse during several sticky moments during the heavy snow last winter....but it never let me down)

Apart from sounding a bit like a tractor (from the outside...but I'am normally inside the car while the engine is running)......so far , I can't see any down side in owning a diesel.
(Note: most of my journeys are on motorway , approx 100mile long)

shawnee

THall04 wrote: »

Have you owned a diesel? What makes/models give all these problems????

A few years ago I swapped my 1.8 petrol for a 2.0 diesel(both mid size family saloons) and immediately saved 25% on fuel costs.
In addition to being cheaper to run , the car tax cost only half that of the petrol and had an extra 55bhp
In just over 2 years , and 37K miles , its cost me no more in maintenance than any petrol engine'd car I've ever had and I've had none...not one ...problem with it.......and its a VAG unit (and it got some abuse during several sticky moments during the heavy snow last winter....but it never let me down)

Apart from sounding a bit like a tractor (from the outside...but I'am normally inside the car while the engine is running)......so far , I can't see any down side in owning a diesel.
(Note: most of my journeys are on motorway , approx 100mile long)

Two years old and 37k , wouldn't expect any trouble from that car. Again in that period maintenance would be quite minimal. Most of the problems mentioned are happening with cars above 100k. Many diesel drivers can reach that figure in two to three years.

OldmanMondeo

I have 2 diesels the last 3 years . The first one gave trouble on a few engine parts, this is been laid down to the guy I used to service it before, he didn't have a clue it turned out... My current one is 2008 has 125k klms on the clock and the only 2 issues I have is the cruise control working when it wants to and a screehing coming from the clutch when I start off, this is been laid to a shiney surface on the clutch.

Otherwise, they cost me no more to service than a petrol version and I get an extra 200 miles (at least) per tank. But remember diesel is only worth while if you are doing the milage, I drive 80 miles a day, mainly motorway.

taintabird

Nissan doctor wrote: »

I think the vast majority of modern diesel issues are down to the vehicles being used for the wrong purpose and incorrect maintenance.

Mortorway/major road longer distance commutes or high mileage use then get a diesel.

City driving/commuting and short trips to shops or whatever, get a petrol.

As long as its not a large petrol engine then the fuel consumption would only be marginally more the a diesel but the maintenance costs would be much less.

+1 totally agree

voxpop

Diesel cars are no more expensive to service and are maybe slightly more complicated than n/a petrol cars. Ive owned and driven a number of diesel cars - all with above 100k miles and have had nothing much go wrong - then again I service my cars every 10k miles and use top grade oil.

With alot of newer petrol cars using turbos and more complex fuel injection, the complexities of both petrol and diesel cars are becoming pretty similar.

The only thing that keeps me coming back to petrol cars is my weak spot for big petrol engines, so I keep going back to them - otherwise diesel cars are a nobrainer, at hatchback/saloon sizes and upwards. The amount of ppl that buy a 1.4 petrol in a heavy car(golf or bigger) when a diesel would make much more sense is astonishing.

Signpost

Dunno is that a very fair assumption. Had a few petrols with no issues what so ever but I had a Mazda 323 which gave me a good bit of grief. Had a Peugeot 406 after than which I bought off my parents. Racked up 250,000 miles in it before I sold it and the only thing I ever put into it was Diseal tbh. Same first day clutch, no turbo problems, no problems full stop really. Sold it to a lad over the rod who has clocked up about another 35K since he bought it and still never had a problem.
Have an Audi now with 135K odd on the clock and again absolutely no problems. If you service a diseal at the correct times I think you could keep them for donkeys years without issue.

Joe 90

voxpop wrote: »

Diesel cars are no more expensive to service and are maybe slightly more complicated than n/a petrol cars. Ive owned and driven a number of diesel cars - all with above 100k miles and have had nothing much go wrong - then again I service my cars every 10k miles and use top grade oil.

With alot of newer petrol cars using turbos and more complex fuel injection, the complexities of both petrol and diesel cars are becoming pretty similar.

The only thing that keeps me coming back to petrol cars is my weak spot for big petrol engines, so I keep going back to them - otherwise diesel cars are a nobrainer, at hatchback/saloon sizes and upwards. The amount of ppl that buy a 1.4 petrol in a heavy car(golf or bigger) when a diesel would make much more sense is astonishing.

I think your saying that the number of people who buy as much sheet metal with as little engine as possible is astonishing. They then often go on to squeeze in as many people as possible.

keithclancy

I had an Octavia 1.9TDI

I sold it and bought a Volvo

Worst .... idea ..... ever

JJJJNR

140,000 miles on my 05 2.0Tdi..... everything works...

pajo1981

FWIW, I'm pushin 100k on a 320d, and I've yet to have a single issue.

The could fall apart in the morning, in saying that.

But I'm not too worried.

Viper_JB

I think it depends on the type of driving you do, for everyone a petrol engine will work, but the same cannot be said about a diesel, you need to be doing a decient maybe 30-50 minute drive at least once a week in order to ensure that you don't get issues with the engine and filters.

Cionád

192,000 on my non-turbo diesel almera, hasn't seen a mechanic since I bought it 71,000 miles, and 6 years ago. Spend 30-40 euro on it every 6,000 miles servicing myself.

Bro has a 1.9tdi with 220,000 miles, everything works, never given trouble either.

We had a 1.25 Fiesta that blew head gasket at 41,000 miles.

All anecdotal, but just to provide some perspective to the usual anti-diesel rhetoric.

JJJJNR

Cionád I think thats the secret, screw the 10k service interval, and using high grade oils and regular changes, also slow warm ups and a couple of mins at the end cooling down will do no harm to a turbo.

Joe 90

JJJJNR wrote: »

Cionád I think thats the secret, screw the 10k service interval, and using high grade oils and regular changes, also slow warm ups and a couple of mins at the end cooling down will do no harm to a turbo.

That's the secret for any car.

I Was VB

1994 Toyota Corona (jap Carina) 2L Diesel and 411K klms, only thing that ever went wrong was a blocked themostat. Other than that the engine has never given trouble. The car is a absolute peach.

Japer

voxpop wrote: »

The only thing that keeps me coming back to petrol cars is my weak spot for big petrol engines, so I keep going back to them - otherwise diesel cars are a nobrainer, at hatchback/saloon sizes and upwards.

+1. Unless you do a lot of miles a petrol is that little bit nicer to drive, in my opinion...depending on the car. I go over to the west coat at weekends a lot + so do a lot of miles, diesel is great for that.

Mr. Manager

Switched from a Golf GTi to an A4 TDi.

Best decision car wise. No hassle with the Audi and I get a solid 2 weeks for my €80 instead of 4-5 days for my €70.

cadaliac

Most of the Diesel cars mentioned with high mileage don't have dpf's.
All modern diesel cars have a dmf, and these are a consumable wearing part. Diesels are torquer than petrols by their nature and will be naturally harder on a dmf. The up side is the "pull" from a diesel that you don't get in equivalently sized petrol cars.
To get the co2 figures and mpg that you get from a 2011 diesel, you need very fine tolerances - which brings its own difficulty's. Namely the dpf - which is solely for emissions.
The fine tolerances also means that the fuel system (including injectors) are quite complex and in the instance of a failure (usually brought on my lack of maintenance), can be quite expensive to fix.
On the petrol side, personally, I have moved to petrol after being a diesel man for years. I simply don't do the mileage to justify a diesel purchase.

ShadowHearth

Nissan doctor wrote: »

I think the vast majority of modern diesel issues are down to the vehicles being used for the wrong purpose and incorrect maintenance.

Mortorway/major road longer distance commutes or high mileage use then get a diesel.

City driving/commuting and short trips to shops or whatever, get a petrol.

As long as its not a large petrol engine then the fuel consumption would only be marginally more the a diesel but the maintenance costs would be much less.

this. +1

Co-worked told me that his brand new focus needs to be serviced only after 15k kms. i was actuolly shocked. I really dont think its that healthy for a turbo engine. iguess ford knows better whats better for new cars, or i am just getting too old fashioned.

in the end of the day its a turbo car, so it needs to be warmed up and cooled down properly. how often have you seen skoda, 520d M5 or TDi RS4 doing that?

my friend is mechanic and most of his work lately is this: changing turbos on a4, a6, 320d, passats etc.

treating turbo car like a normal n/a engine makes them break.

Birdnuts

This thread has put me off getting a diesel fiesta van for hauling 2 gun-dogs around the local area - any suggestions for what I might look for now

partyatmygaff

cadaliac wrote: »

Diesels are torquer than petrols by their nature and will be naturally harder on a dmf. The up side is the "pull" from a diesel that you don't get in equivalently sized petrol cars.

It's common knowledge that the 1.9 TDi VAG engine has so much torque that it could drive up a cliff in fifth gear. All you need to do is slap on an RS4 TDi badge on the back.

hiluxman

Birdnuts wrote: »

This thread has put me off getting a diesel fiesta van for hauling 2 gun-dogs around the local area - any suggestions for what I might look for now

if i was in your situation id buy a citroen berlingo or peugeot partner van with the 1.9 non turbo diesel engine not the hdi engine one. standered fuel pump with standered injectors, no duel mass flywheel, not the fastest van but dependable

unkel

Some of the 80s and 90s non-turbo old skool diesel cars mentioned here are probably in the top 10 most reliable cars the world has ever seen. As a student doing security work in the late 80s I drove a Peugeot 205 diesel sometimes. I think it had 700,000km on the clock and every driver completely abused it. When upshifting from 1st to 2nd you still got plenty of wheel spin

Mechanically simple, electronically very simple and with a self-lubricating engine, there literally was very little that could possibly go wrong with those cars. A modern diesel is on a different planet. Mechanically extremely advanced, electronically complicated (as all modern cars are) and with some modern technologies that have failed / will fail given a few years driving under less than perfect circumstances. People buying a small city car to do the shopping. Nowadays they pick a diesel because it's cheaper to buy (scrappage) and cheaper to tax and fuel. But a few years down the line many of these cars will become moneypits.

The modern diesel troubles have only just started...

PaulKK

partyatmygaff wrote: »

It's common knowledge that the 1.9 TDi VAG engine has so much torque that it could drive up a cliff in fifth gear. All you need to do is slap on an RS4 TDi badge on the back.

Anyone else sick of reading these types of posts?

pajo1981

We had an XUD zx that had about 190k miles on the clock when we sold it and apart from pads and disks it was still all original and passing NCTs.

And no, the TDi gags are still finny. Acceleration usually described as 'unreal' -lol!

Caliden

As a rule of thumb, is there a specific milage or area of use you should be covering in a year to warrent getting a diesel?
i.e. I do approx 10k miles a year with 50% of that being city driving and the rest 80kmh+ roads with little/no traffic

You can ignore the maintenance/car tax costs for simplicity sake

PaulKK

pajo1981 wrote: »

And no, the TDi gags are still finny. Acceleration usually described as 'unreal' -lol!

You obviously have a lower threshold for humour than me. When I hear a joke for the 10000th time its not really funny any more.

On topic, IMO, a reasonably well cared for modern diesel, being driven mostly in non urban environments should be perfectly fine.

I find it funny how boards goes through these bandwagon phases of jumping on something. You get someone saying that all these things are going to go on a car and then every time someone mentions buying one you get the keyboard warriors in dishing out the advice they read last week in an effort to get a few thanks.

pajo1981

I find the humour threshold is dropping as i get older.

Next I'll be watching Kilinaskully.

cadaliac

Caliden wrote: »

As a rule of thumb, is there a specific milage or area of use you should be covering in a year to warrent getting a diesel?
i.e. I do approx 10k miles a year with 50% of that being city driving and the rest 80kmh+ roads with little/no traffic

You can ignore the maintenance/car tax costs for simplicity sake

10k a year would surely not warrant a diesel. In fact you should be looking at double that mileage.
It also depends on the type and cost of the car.
The more expensive the car, the the more expensive the fix, although dmf's and dpf's all seem to be in or around €1k each, whether or not its a Ford, Peugeot or BMW.
You can buy lots of petrol for €1k.

cadaliac

PaulKK wrote: »

On topic, IMO, a reasonably well cared for modern diesel, being driven mostly in non urban environments should be perfectly fine.

.

This is the problem I have with modern diesels. They just aren't robust as they used to be. But, I agree, if you change the oil on time every time with good oil and do all the manufacturers recommended servicing there shouldn't be a problem.
However I don't think for a second that everyone is doing the servicing correctly and on time. Hence the issues.

pcardin

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Mortorway/major road longer distance commutes or high mileage use then get a diesel.

City driving/commuting and short trips to shops or whatever, get a petrol.

Is it not opposite?:rolleyes: Last summer was driving through the Europe with '96 S320 Merc. Covered around 1900 miles. Car had a 100l tank and was doing 730miles with one tank. The year before I did the same distance in Opel Zafira 2liter diesel and got around the same. Diesel per liter was costing more than petrol that year.

Mully_2011

Mother has a 08 Auris 1.4 d4d 145k on it now its needed a fuel pump and a new gearbox and this is a car thats motorway driven its also needed one or two other fairly big jobs. But the auld lad has a 07 3.0 d4d Landcriuser big miles on it as well and its worked nothing has gone wrong with it.

but they dont make em like they used to

galwaytt

Caliden wrote: »

As a rule of thumb, is there a specific milage or area of use you should be covering in a year to warrent getting a diesel?
i.e. I do approx 10k miles a year with 50% of that being city driving and the rest 80kmh+ roads with little/no traffic

You can ignore the maintenance/car tax costs for simplicity sake

Tbh, you're nowhere near diesel-warranting money at that mileage. Double it, and even then you'd be border-line imho.

Mully_2011 wrote: »

Mother has a 08 Auris 1.4 d4d 145k on it now its needed a fuel pump and a new gearbox and this is a car thats motorway driven its also needed one or two other fairly big jobs.

145k ? Bah gum, that's some going in an Auris in 3 years.

unkel

PaulKK wrote: »

I find it funny how boards goes through these bandwagon phases of jumping on something. You get someone saying that all these things are going to go on a car and then every time someone mentions buying one you get the keyboard warriors in dishing out the advice they read last week

Are your eyes and ears not open? Or maybe your mind doesn't want to register what your senses tell you? And you dismiss people who are trying to help you by telling you what they've seen around them as keyboard warriors?

Too many times in the past few years I've heard stories like the one from my neighbour. His 3 year old (just outside of warranty) car needed a new DMF. That with a cambelt change and a service set him back €2,500. This was not a high end car, just a cheap Korean diesel junkbox. Those kinda bills on cheap nearly new cars were unheard of a few years ago. Petrol or diesel. Whatever make of car.

PaulKK

unkel wrote: »

Are your eyes and ears not open? Or maybe your mind doesn't want to register what your senses tell you? And you dismiss people who are trying to help you by telling you what they've seen around them as keyboard warriors?

I'm not asking for help, thanks.

And yes my eyes and ears are open.

You'd also be well advised not to believe everything you read on the internet. You know as well as I do that there are plenty of people who are only too willing to give out advice when they are not in a position to. How many people do you think warning about injectors and DPFs and DMFs and Turbos have had any problems directly with them?

I'm merely saying that the issues that are mentioned here in every thread someone mentions a diesel car are nowhere near as common as most are making out.

I know loads of people running diesels for years with no issues, my last 2 cars were diesel, one with 130k miles and current one approaching 100k miles, certainly not overly high, but neither have had the issues that are so commonly mentioned. This I expect, as I alluded to above, is in part due to the fact that they were well maintained.

I am not denying that parts fail, that is part and parcel of motoring, but what I am saying is it is not so prevalent to an extent that it would stop me buying a diesel. Realistically, I think anyone would expect to have to replace some expensive item at around 150K miles for example. And for me, at least, the benefits of diesel motoring outweigh the benefits of petrol motoring by a long shot, even if I ever did need to replace something expensive.

If everyone came on here for advice and took it literally, we'd all be driving Octavias

unkel

PaulKK wrote: »

And for me, at least, the benefits of diesel motoring outweigh the benefits of petrol motoring by a long shot, even if I ever did need to replace something expensive.

Diesel was always the way to go if you do high mileages. Old skool diesel or modern diesel. I guess you do a high mileage? To put things into perspective: if you did 40k miles per year in a diesel and you had a major maintenance setback of €3k every year you would still save money compared to similar petrol with zero maintenance costs

My point is that since the '08 tax change everybody is buying a diesel car for everything. This will not end well. Mark my words

PaulKK

unkel wrote: »

My point is that since the '08 tax change everybody is buying a diesel car for everything. This will not end well. Mark my words

Yep I do highish mileage alright, 25 - 30k miles a year.

I see we agree somewhat in what we are saying.

I certainly agree with your point, that for a lot of people, diesel does not make sense, I.E urban and low mileage drivers. And it certainly is not a good reason to get one just so you can pay the tax man a bit less every year.

However, for those that it does suit, it is still obviously the fuel of choice, and I would not let the scaremongering put me off getting one if I was willing to follow correct maintenance schedules.

galwaytt

PaulKK wrote: »

Anyone else sick of reading these types of posts?

PaulKK wrote: »

You'd also be well advised not to believe everything you read on the internet.

"Don't believe the internet" and "sick of reading ..".........and posting it...ON the internet.........

Irony/oxymoron, surely ??

Nissan doctor

pcardin wrote: »

Is it not opposite?:rolleyes: Last summer was driving through the Europe with '96 S320 Merc. Covered around 1900 miles. Car had a 100l tank and was doing 730miles with one tank. The year before I did the same distance in Opel Zafira 2liter diesel and got around the same. Diesel per liter was costing more than petrol that year.

Generally, no. But you are comparing very different vehicles, Large modern petrol engines will be good for long high speed trips like that as they are under very little load, ie your s320 merc would have been using maybe 15% of its power to hold 120kmh whereas the zafira could have been usung 40% of it power to hold the same speed, therefore using more fuel.

Try the same trip in a 2.0 petrol car versus the 2.0 diesel and see how you get on;)

colm_mcm

Funny that the old reason for not getting a diesel was the high tax and vrt. Now that's all sorted you can't get one cos it'll calf on the road some day.

PaulKK

galwaytt wrote: »

"Don't believe the internet" and "sick of reading ..".........and posting it...ON the internet.........

Irony/oxymoron, surely ??

Not really, you can chop and quote posts and put in several full stops all you like. I'm sure if you read each in the context they are intended you would find no irony or contradiction.

superfish

skoda octavia 1,9tdi great car I get up to 330 miles for 30 euro ya cant get much cheaper than that

shawnee

unkel wrote: »

Diesel was always the way to go if you do high mileages. Old skool diesel or modern diesel. I guess you do a high mileage? To put things into perspective: if you did 40k miles per year in a diesel and you had a major maintenance setback of €3k every year you would still save money compared to similar petrol with zero maintenance costs

My point is that since the '08 tax change everybody is buying a diesel car for everything. This will not end well. Mark my words

There is little doubt that the huge increase in people buying diesels and paying 130 to 150 tax on a 1.8 instead of approx 600 will be looked at addressed by the government road tax system sooner or later ! ! Roads are in a bad state and they will have to be maintained and whatever the govt needs to do to increase the tax they will. Can see this tax increasing to 300 euro before 12 months :rolleyes:

Leonard Hofstadter

shawnee wrote: »

There is little doubt that the huge increase in people buying diesels and paying 130 to 150 tax on a 1.8 instead of approx 600 will be looked at addressed by the government road tax system sooner or later ! ! Roads are in a bad state and they will have to be maintained and whatever the govt needs to do to increase the tax they will. Can see this tax increasing to 300 euro before 12 months :rolleyes:

VRT is being reviewed at the end of next year;)!

As others have mentioned, people are buying diesels because of the low road tax even though their driving styles do not suit modern day diesels at all.

Diesels are designed around fairly specific drive cycles, and they do not like deviating from that drive cycle a whole lot. They are notoriously far less tolerant of neglect and lack of servicing than before. Don't forget that most Irish people abuse cars and see things like servicing as an expensive waste of money and the NCT as a money making racket designed to force people to waste money on a car that is "going well":rolleyes:.

I simply cannot see the current situation where 49% of motorists who bought a new car bought one with €156 road tax and 41% of motorists with an 11 reg car are only paying €104 road tax, lasting for too much longer.