Wicklow's dual players double date with Kildare. Hardly Fair

sendit

Leighton Glynn and Stephen Kelly of Wicklow will line out for the Wicklow hurlers against Kildare on Saturday 21st of May. This is an important game, a national semi-final with a Croke Park Final in the offing for the winner. It has been a successful year for the Wicklow hurlers - last year's promotion was followed up by another promotion this year. Wicklow will (hopefully - if Clare and Offaly get their way we won't!!) compete in Division 2 of the NHL next year.

These 2 players will then less than 24 hours later be expected to line out for the Wicklow footballers in Tullamore in the Leinster Football Championship against the same opposition, Kildare. Surely this is too much to expect from amateur players. What do people think?? Would it happen if Wicklow were more high profile? Wicklow had their appeal to have a postponement of the Ring Semi-Final rejected last night by the CCCC.

Lord Trollington

Is it me or is it not the same scenario for the Kildare players? The Kildare hurlers are playing Wicklow too by the way.

Mick Foley the Kildare full back is a fantastic hurler but opted to concentrate on playing football rather than hurling.

When you declare yourself a "dual player" you run the risk of this happening. Has happened to Cork players numerous of times. A non story to be honest.

A case of small man or in this case small county syndrome.

sendit

whycliff wrote: »

Is it me or is it not the same scenario for the Kildare players? The Kildare hurlers are playing Wicklow too by the way.

Mick Foley the Kildare full back is a fantastic hurler but opted to concentrate on playing football rather than hurling.

When you declare yourself a "dual player" you run the risk of this happening. Has happened to Cork players numerous of times. A non story to be honest.

A case of small man or in this case small county syndrome.

Well no because none of the Kildare footballers are on the hurling team.

The point is why are the GAA in such a rush to have the Christy Ring finished theres a long summer there i dont see why they cant put it off.

If it was a big county im sure they would find a way around it

sinabhfuil

I don't think Glynn played any of the hurling league anyway. Would I be correct in saying that?
On anothe note, the reason the GAA want to get it over with asap is so they can worry about their bigger matches. They don't care too much about these competitions. It wouldn't surprise me if things changed and they decided against playing The Ring final in Croke Park. It has happened before. I remember Westmeath being asked to play in Croke Park on a friday.

sendit

sinabhfuil wrote: »

I don't think Glynn played any of the hurling league anyway. Would I be correct in saying that?
On anothe note, the reason the GAA want to get it over with asap is so they can worry about their bigger matches. They don't care too much about these competitions. It wouldn't surprise me if things changed and they decided against playing The Ring final in Croke Park. It has happened before. I remember Westmeath being asked to play in Croke Park on a friday.

He played in the league final i think. Why do the GAA bother saying they want to promote hurling in other county's when they dont give a s*%& about the competitions there in? Im surprised they still let the finals in Croke Park

An Citeog

sinabhfuil wrote: »

I don't think Glynn played any of the hurling league anyway. Would I be correct in saying that?
On anothe note, the reason the GAA want to get it over with asap is so they can worry about their bigger matches. They don't care too much about these competitions. It wouldn't surprise me if things changed and they decided against playing The Ring final in Croke Park. It has happened before. I remember Westmeath being asked to play in Croke Park on a friday.

They both played in the league final and in the Christy Ring quarter final against Derry. Wicklow will be playing Division 2 hurling next year and I think their hurlers have earned a lot more respect than they're being shown. There are very few dual players left at intercounty level but the GAA should at least be trying to accommodate those who are there.

Lord Trollington

There are several players from the Kildare football team that could play hurling and there are several players from the Kildare hurling team that could play football also.

But they have both opted to stick with their respected codes for this very reason.

premierstone

whycliff wrote: »

There are several players from the Kildare football team that could play hurling and there are several players from the Kildare hurling team that could play football also.

But they have both opted to stick with their respected codes for this very reason.

No they have not, they have choosen because management within Kildare have made them choose, same has occured in Tipp, Dublin and Waterford and Im sure many others that im not aware of, how come Cadogan was able to do it last year?? Are there one set of rules for Cork and another for Wicklow, OP is spot on and this is a disgrace and would catergorically not happen to a ''bigger'' county.

Lord Trollington

premierstone wrote: »

No they have not, they have choosen because management within Kildare have made them choose, same has occured in Tipp, Dublin and Waterford and Im sure many others that im not aware of, how come Cadogan was able to do it last year?? Are there one set of rules for Cork and another for Wicklow, OP is spot on and this is a disgrace and would catergorically not happen to a ''bigger'' county.

Your not even from Kildare nor do you know any of the players so how can you say they have made them choose?

This is not the case. I know many of the players including Mick Foley who represented Kildare at hurling and football for years.
He himself opted to play football rather than hurling.

premierstone

whycliff wrote: »

Your not even from Kildare nor do you know any of the players so how can you say they have made them choose?

This is not the case. I know many of the players including Mick Foley who represented Kildare at hurling and football for years.
He himself opted to play football rather than hurling.

Making a few assumptions there arent we and yes I do know a few of the Kildare hurlers and they have told me themselves that a number of players who were well capable of making the hurling 15 were pressured by the football management to choose one or the other, infact all ireland winning player David Kennedy was playing with Kildare for two seasons and packed it in because of this among other reasons.

An Citeog

whycliff wrote: »

Your not even from Kildare nor do you know any of the players so how can you say they have made them choose?

This is not the case. I know many of the players including Mick Foley who represented Kildare at hurling and football for years.
He himself opted to play football rather than hurling.

That's his own choice. Whatever about players being pressured to choose by county managers, where a player chooses to represent their county in both codes, this should at least be facilitated by the GAA imo

Lord Trollington

premierstone wrote: »

Making a few assumptions there arent we and yes I do know a few of the Kildare hurlers and they have told me themselves that a number of players who were well capable of making the hurling 15 were pressured by the football management to choose one or the other, infact all ireland winning player David Kennedy was playing with Kildare for two seasons and packed it in because of this among other reasons.

Not making any more assumptions than you are yourself. Your not from Kildare nor invovled in Kildare GAA. I am on both accounts.

premierstone

whycliff wrote: »

Not making any more assumptions than you are yourself. Your not from Kildare nor invovled in Kildare GAA. I am on both accounts.

OH sorry, right lads only people from Kildare and Wicklow are allowed comment on this :rolleyes: And as I sad I am fully aware of what has gone in Kildare hurling in the last few seasons, I have a clubmate coaching up there and I also know David Kennedy personally.

You seem to have taken what I said as some sort of attack, it wasnt it happens in every county, hell if I was over an intercounty team I wouldnt accomadate a dual player, I would ask them to decide as the demands of playing two are too much for amatuer players and you end up with a player not quite performing at 100% in either code.

StupidLikeAFox

It would set a precedent that could be a major headache in the future as teams seek to reorganise fixtures on a regular basis. Setting the fixtures is a major undertaking and it should be attempted to get it right first time.

It could also be open to abuse where a team could play the "dual player card" to get a match re-fixed to cicumvent a suspension or injury.

The system which would have to be implemented to prevent these abuses would be too complex and time consuming to solve a problem which, in reality, isnt that widespread

Hammar

The Problems also extend to training aswell,Take possible Kildare dual players as an example,
The Kildare footballers under McGeeney for example have had multiple training sessions over the weekend periods for the last number of weeks.
How would a dual player in Kildare who maybe has hurling committments on that same weekend cope with the demand for his services?
Unless perhaps an agreement could be put in place that the player does his physical training with the footballers and does only the stickwork/Game situations with the hurlers,i cant see it working,and thats before we take into account of the possibility of both teams playing the same weekend!!!

rebel girl 15

premierstone wrote: »

No they have not, they have choosen because management within Kildare have made them choose, same has occured in Tipp, Dublin and Waterford and Im sure many others that im not aware of, how come Cadogan was able to do it last year?? Are there one set of rules for Cork and another for Wicklow, OP is spot on and this is a disgrace and would catergorically not happen to a ''bigger'' county.

Cadogen was able to do it last year because he was given the option to chose the games by the management, iirc he missed a football game because there was a hurling qualifer the day before - he missed quite a few football games tbh. Communication between the two sets of management allowed him to juggle both for matches and training - for example, he is not going to play with the footballers this week, he will play the following week for the hurlers.

There are a huge number of lads that have chosen to play with one code in Cork, so don't set out like Cork are special or something. Aidan Walsh didn't play with the U21 hurlers last year, same as Ciaran Sheehan, two players that would have made a big difference. Colm O Neill hurled with Cork underage, gave it up for the football, and there is another 5 or 6!

You think playing two games in 2 days is bad - have a look at the ladies side, where regularly that girls are playing two games on the one day!

IIRC - it happened last year as well with Glynn that he played 3 games in the space of 45 hours

link http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/with-australia-first-up-on-saturday-a-gruelling-weekends-action-for-club-and-country-awaits-leighton-glynn-2388793.html

ebbsy

I think the two boys will play both matches, and will taste victory in both.

UP THE GARDEN COUNTY

premierstone

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

There are a huge number of lads that have chosen to play with one code in Cork, so don't set out like Cork are special or something.

Wasnt suggesting this for a second Rebel the only reason I mentioned Cork was because of Eoin Cadogan and I fully appreciate that Cadogan is able to do this because an agreement has been reached between Counihan and Walsh, my point was If Cork were in the Liam McCarthy semi final and still in the senior football, would Croke Park fix the two games for 24hrs apart, not a snowballs chance in hell.

And that is the whole point of this, the Christy Ring is Wicklows Liam McCarthy and by making these fixtures Croke Park have effectively told them they are second class citizens in the world of hurling.

rebel girl 15

premierstone wrote: »

Wasnt suggesting this for a second Rebel the only reason I mentioned Cork was because of Eoin Cadogan and I fully appreciate that Cadogan is able to do this because an agreement has been reached between Counihan and Walsh, my point was if Cork were in the Liam McCarthy semi final and still in the senior football, would Croke Park fix the two games for 24hrs apart, not a snowballs chance in hell.

And that is the whole point of this, the Christy Ring is Wicklows Liam McCarthy and by making these fixtures Croke Park have effectively told them they are second class citizens in the world of hurling.

A few years ago it happened - Cork footballers were playing in a QF on the Saturday in Croke Park and the hurlers played on the Sunday there. Granted there wasn't a dual player at that stage, but it was a farce that supporters of both codes had to either drive up and down, and do the same the Sunday, or stay in Dublin overnight instead of putting the two games on the same day. What message did that send? that was the GAA

The problem here I reckon lies in the fact that its the Leinster Council administering the football game, and Croke Park the hurling, in essence two seperate organisations when it comes to putting the fixtures down - Wicklow could have petitioned to either one to try and change a date, but we've heard nothing.

I know full well the problems with it - I've seen numerous cases here in Cork on the ladies side that girls are playing a Cork football game one day and Cork camogie game the next day, on a few occasions, the girls played one code in the morning and travelled to play a game in the other code in the evening!

premierstone

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

The problem here I reckon lies in the fact that its the Leinster Council administering the football game, and Croke Park the hurling, in essence two seperate organisations when it comes to putting the fixtures down - Wicklow could have petitioned to either one to try and change a date, but we've heard nothing!

Yeah Id imagine you have hit the nail on the head here and neither fixture committee willing to backdown, quite clearly it should be Croke Park btw, its at the semi fianl stage already, whats the panic?

sendit

Aidan Walsh and Ciaran Sheehan didn't play with the U21 hurlers last year because the football management wouldn't let them, same thing happened with a Dublin player cant remember witch one

An Citeog

sendit wrote: »

Aidan Walsh and Ciaran Sheehan didn't play with the U21 hurlers last year because the football management wouldn't let them, same thing happened with a Dublin player cant remember witch one

Rory O'Carroll.

ebbsy

In truth though Casey O'Brien said at the start of the season that promotion was the main aim.

Whatever happens now is a bonus.

DDC1990

Whats not fair is Kerry having to play in F-ing Down this Saturday.

2 Years ago we had to play away to Carlow, due to us coming through the back door.
Last year we should have had home advantage, but ended up having to play Kildare in Nenagh, a neutral venue, because the Gaa decided half way through the season to change the rules.
Now this year, Kerry unbeaten again, and have to go to Down, despite them coming through the back door, as the Gaa decided to have a "Draw" for home advantage.

Just appalling. No wonder no one takes this compettion seriously. Waste of Time, if they are going to fiddle it every year.

sendit

sendit wrote: »

Well no because none of the Kildare footballers are on the hurling team.

The point is why are the GAA in such a rush to have the Christy Ring finished theres a long summer there i dont see why they cant put it off.

If it was a big county im sure they would find a way around it

Not necessarily. Cork played Tipp in 2002 in the Munster football final and Galway in the hurling same day in the qualifiers in a double header in thurles.

Diarmuid Sullivan lined out for the hurlers but he was a sub for the footballers and i think he could have even made an appearance. He was only a sub by virtue of the fact he wasn't good enough to start but make no mistake if he was good enough he would have started both games.

Mushy

Well they won the first one, hopefully a good omen for tomorrow!

ebbsy

Croke Park here we come.......Wicklow hurlers will play in Croker !!!!!!!!

Still pinching myself.

Down 1-17 Kerry 1-18. Kerry had two players sent off as well.

A titantic struggle awaits on June 4th.

dartbhoy

Delighted for Wicklow hurlers and my friend full back Graham Keogh.