Swords League Race #6 - Garristown / Springhill

Lusk Doyle

Cycled out that way this evening. The Springhill road before the turn for Garristown (onto the R130) is all dug up and has gravel all over it. Doesn't strike me as though we will be racing there unless magic road work pixies are out tomorrow!!!

Do the organisers know?

manwithaplan

Was out that way with pprendeville yesterday morning. There is a barricade across the road at the junction of the Naul-Oldtown Road with the Garristown Road. I presume there's an alternative route being used and that sign-on is still at Garristown.

Lusk Doyle

Was thinking of the mtb for this race

Beasty

If it's unrideable I guess everyone can turn round and head towards Ardcath instead:D

Maybe I'd better bring the brush to sweep off the gravel, just in case (as I'm marshalling- looks like it was a wise choice;))

If you think that course is bad, you should see the Old N2 where the 10mTT is due to be run next week (I believe they have Blackbull/Batterstown lined up as back-up for the TT)

BTH

Was out that way myself on Saturday morning and saw the road closures. Some bunny hop to clear the barriers!!

Giving it a miss myself this week, tri season debut this Saturday so resting up!! Best of luck all and I'll be tuning in for the reports.

kennyb3

If this is the junction im thinking of coming from oldtown to garristown, this is pretty much unraceable, i was on it myself at the weekend and it was hard to hold the bike steady going down the little hill even at a slow speed.

Anyway, hoping the physio will give me the all clear tonight to ride. I ve a whole host of excuses ready but really the plan is to sit in in group 2 and try hang on and not get injured. Got to start somewhere. Really just want that racing buzz back after 7+ weeks of doing feck all.

Raam

I think I shall be leaving the carbon wheels at home for this one.

07Lapierre

Tomorrows race will be on the Clonalvy Circuit. The Garristown/Springhill circuit is too bad. Sign-On is Still at Garristown 6.30pm. cheers.

P.S. Don't forget yout race no. and IVCA/Cycling Ireland License.

Raam

Grand, carbon it shall be.

kennyb3

Cool, i ll be leaving balbriggan at about 6.20 if anyone fancies spinning out for a warm up

Beasty

07Lapierre wrote: »

Tomorrows race will be on the Clonalvy Circuit.

That makes me very happy!

(that I'm marshalling that is:D)

Raam wrote: »

Grand, carbon it shall be.

Did you ride that course last year? One very dodgy bit of road with potholes pretty much all the way across after you turn left off the Naul Road

Raam

Beasty wrote: »

Did you ride that course last year? One very dodgy bit of road with potholes pretty much all the way across after you turn left off the Naul Road

Yep, there's a line through it... somewhere.

RobFowl

My appearance is dependant on my wife losing interest in a tennis league match.
Not looking good so far

Raam

You need to smash that racquet. See what I did there?

Lusk Doyle

Raam wrote: »

Yep, there's a line through it... somewhere.

It's well tight up there too for a big group!

shaungil

Raam wrote: »

You need to smash that racquet. See what I did there?

Os show her the back(of the)hand. Deuce she know how how important this is to you, in fact your true love.

Lusk Doyle

shaungil wrote: »

Os show her the back(of the)hand. Deuce she know how how important this is to you, in fact your true love.

Have you eaten today?!?

honkjelly

Would anyone be driving out to this from glasnevin/drumcondra with room for 1 more? Happy to pay petrol costs.

tippx

Beasty wrote: »

If it's unrideable I guess everyone can turn round and head towards Ardcath instead:D

Maybe I'd better bring the brush to sweep off the gravel, just in case (as I'm marshalling- looks like it was a wise choice;))

If you think that course is bad, you should see the Old N2 where the 10mTT is due to be run next week (I believe they have Blackbull/Batterstown lined up as back-up for the TT)

Sunday week I took that road reckoned cant be dug up to much :eek:
2 km later same ,bad move
It was like something from the dukes of hazzard

manwithaplan

honkjelly wrote: »

Would anyone be driving out to this from glasnevin/drumcondra with room for 1 more? Happy to pay petrol costs.

I'll be driving from Killester. No problem giving you a lift. I will be heading up Collins Avenue to join the N1 at Whitehall. I can pick you up if you can make it to the route somewhere or you're more than welcome to drop down to my house. Will probably leave Killester at 5.30ish or a little after.

I'll pm you my mobile number - give me a ring tomorrow.

pprendeville

manwithaplan wrote: »

I'll be driving from Killester. No problem giving you a lift. I will be heading up Collins Avenue to join the N1 at Whitehall. I can pick you up if you can make it to the route somewhere or you're more than welcome to drop down to my house. Will probably leave Killester at 5.30ish or a little after.

I'll pm you my mobile number - give me a ring tomorrow.

He's in group 4. Superglue/weld/carbonize/silicone/whatever the bike onto the bike rack while he's not looking (distract with fig rolls) making sure yours is on the outside.

manwithaplan

Seeing as I couldn't stay with him up the Nag's Head last week, I thought I would terrorise him into submission with my driving.

kennyb3

honkjelly wrote: »

Would anyone be driving out to this from glasnevin/drumcondra with room for 1 more? Happy to pay petrol costs.

Let me know if you dont get sorted with Manwithaplan, as i ll be heading from work in that area, but have to stop at my parents house (balbriggan) to collect gear and bike first

shaungil

Anyone cycling from town for this? Leaving city centre IFSC about 5.45.

killalanerr

how many laps tonight, is this the one that finishes at the school at the top of the hill ,when i found out it was 3 times over the nagshead last week my metal prep was in turmoil

RobFowl

shaungil wrote: »

Anyone cycling from town for this? Leaving city centre IFSC about 5.45.

Any chance of stopping off to give my wife a few slaps on the way....


(Only Joking !!!!)

Beasty

RobFowl wrote: »

(Only Joking !!!!)

What worries me is that you thought it necessary to say this:D

Beasty

killalanerr wrote: »

how many laps tonight, is this the one that finishes at the school at the top of the hill ,when i found out it was 3 times over the nagshead last week my metal prep was in turmoil

Yes, it finishes at the school

I think the plan is to see how it goes - you will probably be told 3.75 laps, but they will change their minds part-way through and increase it to 4.75 - they like to keep you in suspense:D

Lusk Doyle

Can we petition for bigger gaps from once group two goes off!!!

Beasty

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Can we petition for bigger gaps from once group two goes off!!!

Not this week;)

Actually, with some of the back roads involved I think they should be splitting Groups 2 and 3 again if there are similar numbers to previous weeks. There's one blind bend on that course where you have to be very careful

Beasty

Congratulations killalanerr - a great effort to make a 2 man break from the gun, and stay away for the whole race to take your first victory

I'm very interested to see your race report, and in particular how you managed to find yourself in the first group with a 5 minute advantage over your usual second group:D

Unfortunately there was a bad crash on the final lap, on the dodgy bit of road I mentioned above, involving two riders - I think one of them has a suspected broken collarbone - hopefully he and the other rider involved will recover quickly

Anyway, I was marshaling tonight. We were a bit stretched and I ended up on the corner with the road closure. On the face of it easy to marshal, but it actually turned out that the road was open so I had to control traffic from 3 directions, the most important one with a blind bend! This meant I had to stand on the corner until I saw the groups coming then run down the road to ensure nothing was coming round the blind bend

First time round and killalanerr was already pushing it. Group 1 came along thinking there was no marshal as I was down the road making sure it was clear. From then on I simply shouted "clear" to make sure everyone knew someone was there.

A large group 2 and slightly smaller group 3 came by, and then a much smaller semi-scratch and only a handful in scratch (although they did seem remarkably close to the car in front of them;))

Second time round and the two leaders were well away and the other groups had closed up. By the final lap the 2 had a 90s advantage over the next Group who in turn had 30-40s over the final large group

After everyone had gone through I headed back to the finish, which was further round the circuit than I expected. Killalanerr came through to win - not sure who was second - the guy who won race 1 came third.

I have a few photos that I wiill try and post a link to later (not sure of the quality at present)

English Bob

Tough enough!!
Thought I was going to abandon after second lap but ended up coming 5th!
Was a bit sketchy in places with quality if road surface and gravel on corners. Was in group 2 which wasn't really working very smoothly.
Crash happened just behind me & I was expecting to have my back wheel swiped.
Really hope both involves make a speedy recovery & are back on bike soon.
Well done to all marshals as this was a hard one to control.
Cheers to Joe for organisation. Reckon his stopwatch needs new batteries tho;)

killalanerr

arrived at the start and parked my self in group 2 then i heard my name being called by joe i thought he wanted to have a word about the ras or something,but no he was calling me for group 1,so who am i to argue with the club supremo,
so off we went small group 6 or 8 of us, i took of from the gun, i have to say i did fancy my chances of staying away if i got a bit of help but it wasnt looking good every time i went trough i pulled out a gap,then on the hill just after where beasty was the guy in the blue shorts came up to me i waited for him he was struggling on the hills but he was well able to ride on the down hills and on the flat keeping up a very good tempo,so thats how the race went for us i kept a strong tempo on the hills and he kept us rolling on the flat ,on the last lap just past beastys corner i decided not to wait for him on the hill and in fairness he said to go ahead,so i just buried my self from then on fu~k it hurt,on the run into the finish i could feel the bunch hunting me down but managed th hang on by about 60 meters not sure if blue shorts managed to hang on dont think he did.

then on the way home i came on the crash stopped to see if i could help or if their was anything i could do so i gave the order boys a dig out looks like one of the guys collar bone was gone ok but other than that it didnt look to bad get well soon lads

again thanks to the club and all the marshals

kellt

Was in group 2 tonight can't saythat everybody worked for team. Found myself and familiar faces towards the front. Unfortunate about the crash and it was right behind my wheel hope all are ok and a speedy recovery to theriders. Most enjoyable race so far of the club league with a top ten finish. Thanks to all marshals and organisers

Beasty

The winner about to cross the line:


The battle for second place:


A few more here

manwithaplan

"You'll be well able for Group 4", they said. honkjelly then reassured me on the way out in the car that "Group 4 is just like Group 3 with a bit more effort". They were wrong on both counts but, rather annoyingly, not decisively so.

I listened to the whispers in my ear and found myself on the start line when most of the nice people who eat their dinner in the middle of the day had departed. I'm sure the people who were still there were very nice too but some of them looked like they hadn't had dinner for a long time. An early shower seemed assured.

I died on the first circuit but what was left of me managed to pretend I belonged there. It took me a while to realise that the screaming was only my dodgy rear derailleur. Scratch caught us near the end of the second circuit. "Sweet redemption", I thought, "I can pop off home after a token effort to hang on".

The interminable twists and turns seemed to be breaking up the pace a bit but were also causing me to have to get out of the saddle in the drops to hold on on the exits. Oddly enough, I was OK on the lumps but the pace on the flat was hurting me (I need to dump that compact soon).

We hit the crash on lap three. I know the guy who has the suspected broken collar bone but I didn't realise it was him as we slowed and went past. He was the first person to befriend me on the saturday morning spins last Autumn - I hope he's OK and not in too much pain.

The pace eased a smidge from there to the finish. I was delighted to finish with Groups 4 and 5 but it's a bit unfortunate that I'll probably have to chance Group 4 again when I am probably not really good enough. I was chewing the handlebars for long periods when others were much more comfortable and I nearly puked at the finish. Hopefully, with only five races done, there's a bit of room for improvement despite my advancing years. A couple of beers in the local have dulled the pain a bit.

Thanks to all the organisers and marshalls for another job well done.

kennyb3

Really really enjoyed that I have to say, after nearly 2 months of little to no training due to injury and being bored silly watching tv wishing i was out on a wednesday night it was great to be racing again. Started in Group 2 and found it grand which i was pleased about. Pulled out after 2 laps as the hip flexor was getting tight and wanted to be sensible as didnt fancy another extended break - thankfully its fine this morning. Hopefully will be good to go for 2 weeks time now.

Plan was basically to sit in and see how the back and hip were, but ended up doing a few pulls on the front. As the lads above said the up and overs just dont work in group 2 - i rode a couple of races in group 1 last year and they worked more efficiently. I think only once did 6 or 7 people go through in a row. I dont know if the group is too big or whether it was the wind last night but it seems to me there is a real sense of paranoia in the group about doing work for others who are hanging on. Plus there were a few who kept getting in the way and breaking it up by going up the outside then sitting there - I got p'issed off at one stage and gave a few shouts. The whole lack of trust and knowing you ll prob be left stranded on the front for an extended period just means it constantly breaks down.

I got myself in a horrible position at the back for the second half of the first lap but was never really in danger of being dropped. I used the hill at the school to move up. The second lap was easier than the first, not sure if we slowed up or i warmed up. There seemed to be a good few struggling on the hills so i got a decent chance to recover any time we hit one. There were a few others in the same boat you d see the usual lads go from 1st to last and other lads go last to first.

Anyway overall good to start back and id like to think with some training and a few more races that i might be able to make a few breaks out of that group on a course like that or maybe try group 3 later in the year.

Beasty

I find that when Group 2 is small the riders work together much better. When it's large it's easier for riders to hide. I also think there is a bit of a "fear" factor with that course - Group 2 riders tend not to be the best climbers, and want to hold something back for the climbs. I can think of 3 relatively flat and longish stretches where the up and overs could (and should) work properly though.

TBH that group is so large (certainly compared to scratch and semi-scratch) it should be able to stay away (and indeed I think did last night) unless someone like Martyn Irvine turns up

Raam

Martyn was there, but was doing laps in the opposite direction, thank god!

pprendeville

kellt wrote: »

Was in group 2 tonight can't saythat everybody worked for team. Found myself and familiar faces towards the front. Unfortunate about the crash and it was right behind my wheel hope all are ok and a speedy recovery to theriders. Most enjoyable race so far of the club league with a top ten finish. Thanks to all marshals and organisers

Well done - onwards and upwards. That Saturday morning to spin in the presence of 2 greats was probably the reason. Was there any stretching stop last night? think we need one of these in the race before big hills.:D

pprendeville

Another enjoyable race again last night apart from the crash. Hope ye recover quickly lads. Broken collarbone for one fella and a flesh wound for the other. A few stitches i'd say.

Moved back to group 4 as well and found the pace a good bit quicker than 3 right from the off. On one of the desecents with an S bend on the first lap near/after white cottages my bike got the wobbles. Never happened me before. Frightened the sugar out of me. I thought I hadn't reattached the front wheel properly or something. I was full sure it was going to come off. Didn't want to slow down too much in order not to slow people behind me but I had to thinking I was going to come off anyway but thank God I didn't and it didn't happen again. :eek: Have read a thread about this before but I rekon at most we were doing 40 and even at 70 I've never had the bike shake that violently.

That got the heart rate up more than the initial effort of the first lap. So, tough enough first lap particlarly up by the school I felt it. Second lap wasn't as bad I found although I did a ridiculously dangerous move around the outside on a bend. Will have to be more careful in the future with my lines coming into bends.

Then starting 3rd lap, leaders made a small jump and was tough to get back on but managed it followed by 3 sisters climb which was a toughie. Came on the crash then and had to stop. Really don't like passing by when others are on the ground. Group had stopped up and figured I might as well do the good thing. Anyway, was fairly knackered so a good excuse to get an early shower. Once again hope the lads are ok. The ambulance came around about 5-10 mins after we arrived on the scene. We're really lucky to have one. Fair play to other riders who hung around as well.

More pain next week. TT I believe. Looking forward to that. What's the route?

Raam

pprendeville wrote: »

my bike got the wobbles.

Did you try pinching the top tube between your knees?

07Lapierre

pprendeville wrote: »

More pain next week. TT I believe. Looking forward to that. What's the route?

Next weeks TT Route But Keep an eye on the Swords Website. Any changes will be posted on Tuesday. Sign-On is at The White House Pub

Sign-on 06.30 pm. (As usual).

So thats what its like to be in the top 15? Normally, by the time i get to the finish line, its dark and everyones on there way home!. Even more amazing was the fact that Group 2 were not caught. Only a handful working at the front and at times the pace was slow to say the least. Still, good race, very enjoyable.

RobFowl

I've not raced this year BUT have has at least 6 experienced and seasoned racers tell me the standard of riding is quite appalling.
Safety is paramount in these events and one of the reasons the fields are so big is because of our safety record.
I know there was a talk beforehand last night but was summarily ignored.
It is getting to the stage where action will have to be taken.
Ultimately this could mean limiting the race fields to 50 and limiting the number of clubs who can ride.
Please everyone take a long hard look at the way you are riding.

shaungil

Long day for me yesterday. did 70 km before race with commute in and then spin from town with Mrs Raam(who has improved a huge amount since last year).

plan again for me was hammerfest from the start to see how long it could go on for. First lap grand did plenty enjoyed second lap really starting to feel it and managed less stints. Scratch came through and knew it was time to sit on. Did so and was ready to bail on the hill when inexplicably it slowed down and I hung on. Got to crash and had alook to see if I was of any use as I thought it was my bro at first. Rolled home with two lads and then cycled home. 140 km and 4 1/2 hours for the day.

So Group 4 was a mess I thought , yes i was responsible for hammering through but when we were doing up and overs we are to far away when we pull over and if noone comes through second rider has to. I shouted a few times on first lap but just got tired to continue it. I know we had a few lads new to the group and we were missing a good few regulars so that didn't help. When I started this league and moved back a group I said lads I'm new to this please shout and tell me what to do. Fair play to the lads dropping back it's always intimidating but it will get better than we were last night. The new faces all did plenty of stints are are easily strong enough for that group we all need to communicate better and have a bit more confidence in the wheels around us.

Legs in a heap today alternating between twitching and cramping.

BTH

RobFowl wrote: »

I've not raced this year BUT have has at least 6 experienced and seasoned racers tell me the standard of riding is quite appalling.
Safety is paramount in these events and one of the reasons the fields are so big is because of our safety record.
I know there was a talk beforehand last night but was summarily ignored.
It is getting to the stage where action will have to be taken.
Ultimately this could mean limiting the race fields to 50 and limiting the number of clubs who can ride.
Please everyone take a long hard look at the way you are riding.

Can this be elaborated on if possible? Personally I don't think I've done much wrong in the league races this year, but then nobody has said anything to me. I know "long socks" has come in for a lot of attention on here, and I actually thought he was much better last week, despite his hug for abc_xyz. I'm just wondering what the main issues are, and wondering if I have un-knowingly been responsible for any of it (going to be harder to answer that part, hopefully).

RobFowl

BetterThanHoyte wrote: »

Can this be elaborated on if possible? Personally I don't think I've done much wrong in the league races this year, but then nobody has said anything to me. I know "long socks" has come in for a lot of attention on here, and I actually thought he was much better last week, despite his hug for abc_xyz. I'm just wondering what the main issues are, and wondering if I have un-knowingly been responsible for any of it (going to be harder to answer that part, hopefully).

Basically it's involving repeated cross if front of riders with out looking behind. Poor cornering and basically it's obvious that far too many riders are not experienced at riding in a group.
I don't think it's helpful to accuse or blame individuals but everyone needs to look long and hard at how they are riding. Everyone of us has done things wrong at some stage. It's just if too many do them too often it becomes too dangerous.

Shaungil has a very good point in that he doesn't care if he ever gets placed as long as he rides hard and gets home safely.

To paraphrase Harry Dean Stanton in Repo Man (my favourite film) "Only an asshole gets hurt for a club race"

manwithaplan

shaungil wrote: »

I know we had a few lads new to the group and we were missing a good few regulars so that didn't help. When I started this league and moved back a group I said lads I'm new to this please shout and tell me what to do. Fair play to the lads dropping back it's always intimidating but it will get better than we were last night. The new faces all did plenty of stints are are easily strong enough for that group we all need to communicate better and have a bit more confidence in the wheels around us.

I have no problem being shouted at. I'm used to it at home. Any tips, advice etc pre and post race are gratefully accepted too. Someone told me I came through too hard at one stage. I didn't always know I was the last man at the back (and sometimes there was someone behind me not going up). This led me to pull out late and be too slow coming through a couple of times. I'll try to tidy up a bit. I was trying to behave myself on corners - hope I was OK.

By the way, thanks for the push at the bottom of the hill on the last lap (I think it was you). I thought you were signing off for the evening but you might have just been taking pity on me.

English Bob

Two main things that Ive noticed:
1, riders not doing a stint on front. If you've not got the legs for it Sit on the back. Too many riders going on the outside and just sitting there or trying to squeeze over before reaching the front.
2, passing on the inside (left side). My understanding is the normal way to pass a rider is to their right. Too often riders are pushing through on the inside esp on corners. If you have to pass on inside at least shout to warn the rider in front.

Safe riding has to be the most important thing as we all have to go to work the next day.

I personally think more riders need to maybe come out on the club training spin to get a feel for group riding before racing.
I for one got a load of advice from the likes of Joe, Pat Halligan, Pat Halpin, Sam to name a few. This raised my confidence on the bike and helped my bike handling skills.

Beasty

I think the issue may be down to the 2 largest groups (2 and 3) having most riders, and in particular most inexperienced racers. There are a lot of new guys this year, which has to be wholeheartedly welcomed. Because many of them are actually quite fast cyclists they have ended up in these two groups.

I wasn't riding last night, so cannot comment too much on that. I do think there is a tendency to bunch up approaching corners and hills - it's only natural - those getting there first are not going to get dropped, whereas those getting there last may do.

When I started racing last year I had the advantage that I was in a small group 2 with lots of experienced riders around me. I think only shaungil's brother and I were new to racing, and we could pick up what was going on easier because the other guys knew what they were doing. I know I was pushing too hard at the front and that my cornering was crap, but after a few races settled more into the rhythm required. The problem at present, as I see it, is there is not enough "good riding" to educate the new guys - if half the group are making similar mistakes they probably don't realise they are doing so

The guy in long socks was spoken to, and as I understand it he improved significantly last week (he was marshaling last night). I think others who are not quite getting it right perhaps need to be spoken to by the more experienced guys so they know something is wrong. We also need to shout more if necessary during the race (as killalanerr can vouch, I am more than prepared to do this!)

I also think groups 2 and 3 should be made smaller. Group 1 was very small last night and could easily accomodate another half dozen or so riders, particularly if they are prepared to stick around and work as a group - they managed 2 or 3 victories last year doing this, and the worst that could happen is they will be a bit fresher when caught by the faster groups). Some from group 2 could go up to group 3, and some from group 3 up to group 4 (maybe even some of the group 4 riders could try scratch? - again it may be a bit more difficult if Martyn is around, but generally it is a very small group and could probably do with spreading the load a bit more)

07Lapierre

Probably too late for this year, but maybe we should have a "Introduction to league Racing" race at the beginning of the league. The idea would be that all inexperienced riders are coached by experienced riders on how to ride a race in groups. We did something similar to this last year for the ladies race.

Of course we'd need to agree who the "experienced" riders are and get them to participate.