The Golden Boot winner this year could be very controversial

CorkMan

As things stand ATM Messi has 52 goals, while C.Ronaldo has either 51 goals or 52 goals depending on how you look at it. Look at this goal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1INyoJtXek

Marca, which is a newspaper, gives out the award for top scorer. There is no top scorer award by the Spanish Football Federation, Marca gives it out and players accept it at a ceremony and everything, it is a big thing for their record. They gave the above goal to C.Ronaldo. But the Spanish Football Federation has ruled it a Pepe goal, so in their eyes it is not a C.Ronaldo goal. They have C.Ronaldo on 38 league goals ATM while Marca has C.Ronaldo on 39 league goals. The shot was on target and goal bound, but it took a deflection of Pepe.

It would be very interesting if C.Ronaldo and Messi scored the same amount of goals this season, would UEFA give the award to C.Ronaldo, ruling the above goal in his favour or will they rule it a draw?

Real Madrid have already relegated Almeria at home for their final match next week, so I think C.Ronaldo will get a brace/hat-trick at that match on his current form. (Getting 38+ or 39+ league goals) Maybe even 4 because he has gotten 9 goals in his last 3 games, including 4 goals at Sevilla who are 6th placed. Messi isn't being played ATM cos Barca won the league and that can obviously have an effect on the Golden Ball standing.

greendom

Marca is basically the pet paper of Real Madrid so they'll award the goal to him.

Sport, the Barca equivalent will probably devise their own award to present to Messi.

Jelle1880

Pepe touches it, no way did he mean it but player who last touches it gets the goal.

And yes, Marca is a Real Madrid paper

CorkMan

But look at 0:40 from the vid. It barely touched Pepe but it took a deflection and the speed made the deflection look bigger. But it was on target and we all know it would have been a goal if it didn't hit Pepe. There have been lesser goals given to strikers in the end.

Jelle1880

I know what you mean, but it still hit Pepe so technically he scored (although he probably doesn't know it himself).

Imo it makes perfect sense to give him the goal, despite Ronaldo doing the work.

greendom

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I know what you mean, but it still hit Pepe so technically he scored (although he probably doesn't know it himself).

Imo it makes perfect sense to give him the goal, despite Ronaldo doing the work.

If the situation was reversed there's no way Ronaldo would not be claiming the goal as his own

CorkMan

greendom wrote: »

If the situation was reversed there's no way Ronaldo would not be claiming the goal as his own

My sarcasm detector is stuck in the middle.

CoalBucket

The award for the top goal scorer in spain is called the El Pichichi. In europe it is the golden boot.

The golden ball otherwise known as the Ballon D'Or is the european player of the year.

CorkMan

CoalBucket wrote: »

The award for the top goal scorer in spain is called the El Pichichi. In europe it is the golden boot.

The golden ball otherwise known as the Ballon D'Or is the european player of the year.

Sorry, I WILL EDIT.

Done.

Mitch Connor

If that Ronaldo free had taken that deflection off an opposition player it would be credited as Ronaldo's goal, so imo it should be Ronaldo's goal.

greendom

CorkMan wrote: »

My sarcasm detector is stuck in the middle.

Not sure I understand this ?

Johner

Has to be Pepe's goal imo.

killwill

Johner wrote: »

Has to be Pepe's goal imo.

Never in a month of Sundays. Ronaldo's goal without a doubt.
Unfortunately, Messi Lovers everywhere will claim otherwise. Ronaldo is NOWHERE near a good a Messi so he cannot out score him.
Johner, this is by no means directed at you.

keane2097

It's Pepe's goal ldo.

redzerdrog

i think it is a tough one to call
if it deflected off an oppositions player it is straight forward and ronaldo's goal

but because it hits his own player last I can see why it would be given to pepe

A Dub in Glasgo

If it touches a team mate then it is the team mates goal, does not matter if it was just about to cross the line and a team mate pokes it across.

killwill

redzerdrog wrote: »

i think it is a tough one to call
if it deflected off an oppositions player it is straight forward and ronaldo's goal

but because it hits his own player last I can see why it would be given to pepe

Why two different results for the 1 scenario. It does not matter what team Pepe plays for.

keane2097

killwill wrote: »

Why two different results for the 1 scenario. It does not matter what team Pepe plays for.

Of course it does.

LuckyLloyd

That is Ronaldo's goal to me. I thought it was standard practice to award such goals to the player who had the shot on target?

everdead.ie

Think it should be awarded to Ronaldo if it was an opposition player who deflected it in it would be given to ronaldo even if the deflection was huge as it was on target. Same rules apply imo.

keane2097

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That is Ronaldo's goal to me. I thought it was standard practice to award such goals to the player who had the shot on target?

Nope, not if it's a player on your team, it's whoever gets the last touch.

I remember Tevez being awarded a goal for city where Onuoha headed a cross downward, it bounced on the line and touched Tevez' toe as it did so, Tevez' goal.

Think of it this way, what is Pepe doing in the wall? He's trying to influence the play in such a way as to cause a Madrid goal, which he does by deflecting the ball into the net. His goal.

Benimar

It's Pepes goal. This has happened a number of times in other games, especially from long range shots and it always goes to the last player to touch the ball from the team that scores.

If not, where do you draw the line? What about the ball thats going in anyway but the striker knocks it home from 2 inches...should it go to the guy who took the shot as it was going in anyway? Of course not!

jameshayes

keane2097 wrote: »

Nope, not if it's a player on your team, it's whoever gets the last touch.

I remember Tevez being awarded a goal for city where Onuoha headed a cross downward, it bounced on the line and touched Tevez' toe as it did so, Tevez' goal.

Think of it this way, what is Pepe doing in the wall? He's trying to influence the play in such a way as to cause a Madrid goal, which he does by deflecting the ball into the net. His goal.

I was on the side that it was ronaldo's goal until i read this ^^^ makes sense...

~Rebel~

everdead.ie wrote: »

Think it should be awarded to Ronaldo if it was an opposition player who deflected it in it would be given to ronaldo even if the deflection was huge as it was on target. Same rules apply imo.

But the same rules don't apply.

Last player on the attacking team to touch the ball gets the goal - be it off his arse, back or whatever else. Only time this does not apply is if the ball from the last attacker to touch it was not putting it on target and a deflection from an opposition player puts it on target instead, then its an own goal.

Jonas goal against Chelsea yesterday, for instance.

CorkMan

Benimar wrote: »

It's Pepes goal. This has happened a number of times in other games, especially from long range shots and it always goes to the last player to touch the ball from the team that scores.

If not, where do you draw the line? What about the ball thats going in anyway but the striker knocks it home from 2 inches...should it go to the guy who took the shot as it was going in anyway? Of course not!

Bad comparison.

Plus it was not like Pepe was ever going to score anyway, the goal went in from a free kick, not open play. Pepe didn't kick the ball in, like Tevez did. It took a slight deflection off him, but the ball was going so fast it made it look much more spectacular towards Pepe.

look at 00:36 of the vid, Pepe didn't "put it on target", the ball only went higher because of him, it did not change direction. If it didn't hit Pepe, it was going in IMO. (Especially considering the 2 free's C.Ronaldo scored last night )

curry-muff

Power counts lads, power counts!!!

parker kent

Definitely should be Pepe's goal. Many, many similar examples and are almost always given to the player who it touched last.

LuckyLloyd

keane2097 wrote: »

Nope, not if it's a player on your team, it's whoever gets the last touch.

I remember Tevez being awarded a goal for city where Onuoha headed a cross downward, it bounced on the line and touched Tevez' toe as it did so, Tevez' goal.

Think of it this way, what is Pepe doing in the wall? He's trying to influence the play in such a way as to cause a Madrid goal, which he does by deflecting the ball into the net. His goal.

Fair enough. Hardly matters anyway. Can't detract or add to the immense season Ronaldo has had.

JPA

Hard to give that to Ronaldo considering Pepe caused the ball to go to the opposite side of the goal then where it was heading.

parker kent

Think of Dzeko's shot against United at OT. It deflected in off Silva, so it was Silva's goal. Lots of other examples down through the years.

karma_

parker kent wrote: »

Think of Dzeko's shot against United at OT. It deflected in off Silva, so it was Silva's goal. Lots of other examples down through the years.

Indeed, I'm surprised there is any debate abut this at all.

Lister1

Pepe's goal in my eyes. Defelection put the goal keeper off big time and without this I could see him having a good chance of making the save.

~Rebel~

CorkMan wrote: »

Bad comparison.

Plus it was not like Pepe was ever going to score anyway, the goal went in from a free kick, not open play. Pepe didn't kick the ball in, like Tevez did. It took a slight deflection off him, but the ball was going so fast it made it look much more spectacular towards Pepe.

look at 00:36 of the vid, Pepe didn't "put it on target", the ball only went higher because of him, it did not change direction. If it didn't hit Pepe, it was going in IMO. (Especially considering the 2 free's C.Ronaldo scored last night )

The 2 bolded bits:
First, the ball DID change direction, as you said It went higher.
<edit> Actually watching it more, it takes a HUGE deflection, both in change of direction and adding the height so it loops over the keeper. Went to a completely different area than it would have.

Second, and the crucial part. It may have gone in anyway, but we don't know. In some parallel universe where Pepe was sick that day, Ronaldo's shot may have flown into the top corner, in our universe however, it didn't. It hit Pepe, and is his goal. Just as Taylor's free kick yesterday against Chelsea hit Jonas on the back, making it Jonas goal.

Honestly, I see no grounds for it to be Ronaldo's goal. Last attacker to touch it gets the goal. Doesn't matter if its scrappy, it's Pepe's.

CorkMan

Lister1 wrote: »

Pepe's goal in my eyes. Defelection put the goal keeper off big time and without this I could see him having a good chance of making the save.

It didn't put him off, the deflection made it impossible for him to save it.

@rebel: I don't understand that if it hits an opposition player it is the set-piece taker's goal, but not if it hits a team mate.

_blank_

Anyone who thinks that's not Pepe's goal is an imbecile, and I'm not a Barca fan-boy nor anything like it.

Look at the goal in the Chelsea game yesterday for a similar example.

It touched Pepe last, it definitely changed direction, so it's Pepe's goal.

Chardee MacDennis

Des wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that's not Pepe's goal is an imbecile, and I'm not a Barca fan-boy nor anything like it.

Look at the goal in the Chelsea game yesterday for a similar example.

It touched Pepe last, it definitely changed direction, so it's Pepe's goal.

it doesnt matter if it changed direction, pepe was the last to touch it therefor his goal, how is this a debate?

SlickRic

CorkMan wrote: »

I don't understand that if it hits an opposition player it is the set-piece taker's goal, but not if it hits a team mate.

because when it comes to a possible own goal, the benefit of the doubt is given to the attacker i'd imagine.

it's fairly easy to understand.

you 'credit' people with goals in these sorts of situations, and if there's a way of 'creditting' a player with a goal, rather than putting it down as an own goal, that will happen. which is right.

if a free kick is taken, it's on target, hits a defender, and goes in, it's the free kick taker's goal.

if a free kick is taken, it's off target, hits a defender, and goes in, it's then an OG.

if a free kick is taken, it's on target, hits a teammate, and goes in, it's the teammates goal, seen as he's the last guy off your team to touch it. he's the last member of your team to have a touch, therefore he's finishing the move off, therefore, it's his goal.

it's fairly basic football 101 here

Idu

What's the point of this thread? There will be no controversy. The golden boot and pichichi are both awarded on league goals. Ronaldo definitely has 38 and messi has 31. Think that ones fairly decided regardless of this disputed goal.

Also it's definitely Pepe's goal

~Rebel~

CorkMan wrote: »

It didn't put him off, the deflection made it impossible for him to save it.

@rebel: I don't understand that if it hits an opposition player it is the set-piece taker's goal, but not if it hits a team mate.

Well in that case if I play a through ball into you which in itself was on target, you double on it and score, is that mine or yours? Seems obvious it's yours but where's the line?

I think your perspective on it is slightly backward. Forgot touched before the final one, instead think of it as "last attacker to touch it gets the goal as long as that touch Was on target - if that touch wasn't on target and an opposition player puts it in, it's an og"

parker kent

Idu wrote: »

What's the point of this thread? There will be no controversy. The golden boot and pichichi are both awarded on league goals. Ronaldo definitely has 38 and messi has 31. Think that ones fairly decided regardless of this disputed goal.

Also it's definitely Pepe's goal

The bolded line really should be mentioned more often in this thread. Other than the obviousness of it being Pepe's goal.

~Rebel~

parker kent wrote: »

The bolded line really should be mentioned more often in this thread. Other than the obviousness of it being Pepe's goal.

Good stuff, so this thread is completely irrelevant.

(still pepe's goal.)

CorkMan

I look at it this way, the way things stand C.Ronaldo is the top league scorer for a season in La Liga history in Marca's eyes and he is the joint top in the Spanish Football Federation's eyes. (along with Hugo Sanchez and Zarra). Bear in mind the league has been interred since 1929.

It's a pretty big subject if you ask me. Thank God Real Madrid have already relegated Almeria next and C.Ronaldo will likely get a brace/hat-trick to clear things up. It's a pity such a monumental occasion has all this bad hype surrounding it though.

~Rebel~

CorkMan wrote: »

I look at it this way, the way things stand C.Ronaldo is the top league scorer for a season in La Liga history in Marca's eyes and he is the joint top in the Spanish Football Federation's eyes. (along with Hugo Sanchez and Zarra). Bear in mind the league has been interred since 1929.

It's a pretty big subject if you ask me. Thank God Real Madrid have already relegated Almeria next and C.Ronaldo will likely get a brace/hat-trick to clear things up. It's a pity such a monumental occasion has all this bad hype surrounding it though.

I do not think that word means what you think that word means.

keane2097

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I do not think that word means what you think that word means.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

CorkMan

keane2097 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

Fuhrer

parker kent wrote: »

Think of Dzeko's shot against United at OT. It deflected in off Silva, so it was Silva's goal. Lots of other examples down through the years.

That shot changed direction and was off target before it was deflected

Rob113

Has to be given as Pepes goal unfortunately. Remember David nugents first goal for England. Defoe took the strike on goal, nugent raced in and kicked the ball just as it was crossing the line. He was given the goal even though the Defoe shot was about to cross the line. Don't know how to imbed a video from the phone but here's the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnHpg5Wz_Xk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

karma_

CorkMan wrote: »

I look at it this way, the way things stand C.Ronaldo is the top league scorer for a season in La Liga history in Marca's eyes and he is the joint top in the Spanish Football Federation's eyes. (along with Hugo Sanchez and Zarra). Bear in mind the league has been interred since 1929.

It's a pretty big subject if you ask me. Thank God Real Madrid have already relegated Almeria next and C.Ronaldo will likely get a brace/hat-trick to clear things up. It's a pity such a monumental occasion has all this bad hype surrounding it though.

Man, are you a Madrid fan or a Ronaldo fan?

parker kent

Fuhrer wrote: »

That shot changed direction and was off target before it was deflected

It was just one example. There are literally 100s of goals like the Ronaldo/Pepe one and they are always given to the guy it deflects off.

Vurnon San Benito

It was going in anyway! :pac:

greendom

CorkMan wrote: »

My sarcasm detector is stuck in the middle.

I know I'm stupid but is there any chance you could explain this to me ?