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Gerry Adams to run for President ?

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Comments

  • #152
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Manassas61 wrote: »
    It would need to be voted on.

    Who said that it didn't?


  • #153
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Who said that it didn't?

    It would need to be voted on down south. Is there anything indicating it would have to be voted on in the north?


  • #154
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    It would need to be voted on down south. Is there anything indicating it would have to be voted on in the north?

    Nothing that I am aware of.


  • #155
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Manassas61 wrote: »
    No it isn't. If that was the case, it would already be happening.

    Why do you care whether people in the north want to vote for the President or not?

    What's it to you?


  • #156
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Charlie Rock wrote: »
    Why do you care whether people in the north want to vote for the President or not?

    What's it to you?

    It will be interesting to see official Unionism's reaction. They should be worried. as the more influence N.I.'s Irish people have over the ROI's affairs the easier it will be for them to vote for unification.
    They can't really object as they signed an agreement that accommodates it.


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  • #157
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    I suspect it's just good old bitterness and the desire to deny the Irish, in the formerly gerrymandered state, some sort of input that involves the flagrant ignoring of the imaginary line that embittered Unionists view as some sort of cosmic chasm.


  • #158
    Manassas61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭Manassas61


    Charlie Rock wrote: »
    Why do you care whether people in the north want to vote for the President or not?

    What's it to you?
    Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. Its a different state. If you don't like other opinions, don't bother posting in the politics thread.


  • #159
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Charlie Rock wrote: »
    I suspect it's just good old bitterness and the desire to deny the Irish, in the formerly gerrymandered state, some sort of input that involves the flagrant ignoring of the imaginary line that embittered Unionists view as some sort of cosmic chasm.
    It's kind of hilarious that you think that the border that divides the Republic of Ireland from the United Kingdom is somehow less real than any other line on a map.


  • #160
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Manassas61 wrote: »
    Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. Its a different state. If you don't like other opinions, don't bother posting in the politics thread.

    The soon to be majority of people who identify themselves as Irish will be given the choice to vote in our presidential elections, they do not as far as I can see, need Unionists blessing or permission to do that. The fact that it is another state is irrelevant on a thread about the presidential elections. Gerry Adams probably sees the potential to do very well in an election like that.


  • #161
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The soon to be majority of people who identify themselves as Irish will be given the choice to vote in our presidential elections, they do not as far as I can see, need Unionists blessing or permission to do that.
    They do, however, need the blessing of the existing electorate in a referendum, the outcome of which is not a foregone conclusion.


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  • #162
    Manassas61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭Manassas61


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The soon to be majority of people who identify themselves as Irish will be given the choice to vote in our presidential elections, they do not as far as I can see, need Unionists blessing or permission to do that. The fact that it is another state is irrelevant on a thread about the presidential elections. Gerry Adams probably sees the potential to do very well in an election like that.
    It will go to a referendum.


  • #163
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    They do, however, need the blessing of the existing electorate in a referendum, the outcome of which is not a foregone conclusion.

    Personally don't see many(bar diehard partitionists) having serious objections to it.


  • #164
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Personally don't see many(bar diehard partitionists) having serious objections to it.
    No disrespect, but I'd be surprised if you did.


  • #165
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Manassas61 wrote: »
    It will go to a referendum.

    In the south


  • #166
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    No disrespect, but I'd be surprised if you did.

    Why would a southern Irish man or woman have an objection to a fellow Irish person (they did massively endorse that identification in the GFA referendum) voting in our presidential elections? How would they articulate that objection? Care to give it go?


  • #167
    Manassas61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭Manassas61


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    In the south
    Like I said, I have no problem if it happens. All I would ask for is a candidate to represent Unionism from here in Ulster.


  • #168
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Manassas61 wrote: »
    Like I said, I have no problem if it happens. All I would ask for is a candidate to represent Unionism from here in Ulster.

    And like i said two pages back, all the better. why go on that massive trip to come back where you started


  • #169
    Manassas61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭Manassas61


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    And like i said two pages back, all the better. why go on that massive trip to come back where you started
    To show that it won't happen unless a vote on it happens. Does Northern Ireland get a vote on this?


  • #170
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Manassas61 wrote: »
    Does Northern Ireland get a vote on this?

    Where does it say that there is a veto on how people who legally identify themselves as Irish behave?
    There is no need for a vote on this, as long as the Irish electorate rubber stamp it then it will happen.
    Americans living in Ireland can vote in US elections, no difference.


  • #171
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Why would a southern Irish man or woman have an objection to a fellow Irish person (they did massively endorse that identification in the GFA referendum) voting in our presidential elections? How would they articulate that objection? Care to give it go?
    It's one thing to say "wouldn't it be nice if..."; it's another altogether to figure out the details.

    For example, who gets to vote? Irish citizens living in Northern Ireland? Why not Irish citizens living in the rest of the UK? If a NI resident can vote, why not my brother in Kent? If you only let NI residents vote, you're creating tiers of citizenship: citizens living in the UK who can vote, and citizens living in the UK who can't.

    Now, if your agenda is entirely driven by an inability to comprehend a border on this island, that's a price worth paying. If not, it may not be.

    And that's just the first glance at the issue.


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  • #172
    spank_inferno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    US citizens can vote abroad if they file a tax return..... (which is why my American wife doesnt bother).

    If Irish citizens in the UK would like to vote they should kick-in a few euro to the governments coffers for the pleasure.


  • #173
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    It's one thing to say "wouldn't it be nice if..."; it's another altogether to figure out the details.

    For example, who gets to vote? Irish citizens living in Northern Ireland? Why not Irish citizens living in the rest of the UK? If a NI resident can vote, why not my brother in Kent? If you only let NI residents vote, you're creating tiers of citizenship: citizens living in the UK who can vote, and citizens living in the UK who can't.

    Now, if your agenda is entirely driven by an inability to comprehend a border on this island, that's a price worth paying. If not, it may not be.

    And that's just the first glance at the issue.

    You are talking about several different constituencies (for want of a better word).
    The GFA makes a special case of those living in N.I. and deems them to be living in Ireland and Irish, if that is how they want to see themselves.
    Votes for ex-pats generally is another issue entirely.


  • #174
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    It's one thing to say "wouldn't it be nice if..."; it's another altogether to figure out the details.

    For example, who gets to vote? Irish citizens living in Northern Ireland? Why not Irish citizens living in the rest of the UK? If a NI resident can vote, why not my brother in Kent? If you only let NI residents vote, you're creating tiers of citizenship: citizens living in the UK who can vote, and citizens living in the UK who can't.

    Now, if your agenda is entirely driven by an inability to comprehend a border on this island, that's a price worth paying. If not, it may not be.

    And that's just the first glance at the issue.

    Well i would suggest that given that the constitution gives the right to everyone born on the island of ireland to be a part of the Irish nation, that thats why it would just apply to the north. of course, you wouldnt even need to go into that level of discussion if you would stop trying to push the ludicrous notion the people in the north are somehow more conne ted to Kent than the rest of Ireland


  • #175
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    None of those murdering terrorists from Sinn Fein/IRA will ever be President or Taoiseach of the 26 county Republic of Ireland.


  • #176
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    You are talking about several different constituencies (for want of a better word).
    The GFA makes a special case of those living in N.I. and deems them to be living in Ireland and Irish, if that is how they want to see themselves.
    Votes for ex-pats generally is another issue entirely.
    The constitution allows people born in Ireland to be Irish citizens. It doesn't make Northern Ireland part of the Republic. As much as it suits your agenda to ram your head firmly in the sand on this point, you're proposing that we create a situation where Irish citizens who are resident in a different country are allowed to vote in our elections, unless that country happens to be on a different land mass, in which case they can get knotted.

    I have a problem with creating a special class of non-resident citizen, and I'm not alone.
    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    Well i would suggest that given that the constitution gives the right to everyone born on the island of ireland to be a part of the Irish nation, that thats why it would just apply to the north.
    That makes them citizens. It doesn't make them eligible to vote, any more than it makes my brother - who was born in the Republic of Ireland - eligible to vote, as he now lives outside the jurisdiction.
    of course, you wouldnt even need to go into that level of discussion if you would stop trying to push the ludicrous notion the people in the north are somehow more conne ted to Kent than the rest of Ireland
    Irish citizens in Northern Ireland live in a different country. If you'd stop trying to push the ludicrous notion that this isn't the case, we might be able to have a sensible discussion on the topic.

    As it stands, the immediate topic is whether a referendum to allow non-resident citizens to vote would pass. If your ideology requires you to believe that the Irish electorate are lining up to allow non-residents to vote, fair enough; you may find yourself bitterly disappointed if and when it goes to a vote.


  • #177
    Painted Pony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭Painted Pony


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Why would a southern Irish man or woman have an objection to a fellow Irish person (they did massively endorse that identification in the GFA referendum) voting in our presidential elections? How would they articulate that objection? Care to give it go?
    On this matter GFA was really about Britain recognising the wishes of some in the North to identify themselves as Irish. The Southern Irish people had no issue with this. Anybody from up there who asserted that they were Irish were accepted as such, nor were their any barriers to them formally becoming Irish citizens. They didn’t start being Irish in 1998!

    Why should they not have a vote in presidential elections? Well for one, the president is the head of state, not of country or nation. And secondly, if you permit them to vote in presidential elections how could you justify denying them votes in referenda or even local / national elections?


  • #178
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    The constitution allows people born in Ireland to be Irish citizens. It doesn't make Northern Ireland part of the Republic. As much as it suits your agenda to ram your head firmly in the sand on this point, you're proposing that we create a situation where Irish citizens who are resident in a different country are allowed to vote in our elections, unless that country happens to be on a different land mass, in which case they can get knotted.

    I have a problem with creating a special class of non-resident citizen, and I'm not alone.

    That makes them citizens. It doesn't make them eligible to vote, any more than it makes my brother - who was born in the Republic of Ireland - eligible to vote, as he now lives outside the jurisdiction. Irish citizens in Northern Ireland live in a different country. If you'd stop trying to push the ludicrous notion that this isn't the case, we might be able to have a sensible discussion on the topic.

    As it stands, the immediate topic is whether a referendum to allow non-resident citizens to vote would pass. If your ideology requires you to believe that the Irish electorate are lining up to allow non-residents to vote, fair enough; you may find yourself bitterly disappointed if and when it goes to a vote.

    If your ideology requires you to believe that irish people would actively deny their fellow countrymen the vote (particularly when they can bloody run for the position) then id wager youd be the one facing bitter disappointment i dont recall there being any outcry when several northerners were appointed to the seanad.

    i have no doubt youre not alone but i wouldnt imagine you and your fellow travelers are anything more than a relatively small group of twisted partitionist diehards. but, time will tell


  • #179
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Painted Pony wrote: »
    On this matter GFA was really about Britain recognising the wishes of some in the North to identify themselves as Irish. The Southern Irish people had no issue with this. Anybody from up there who asserted that they were Irish were accepted as such, nor were their any barriers to them formally becoming Irish citizens. They didn’t start being Irish in 1998!

    Why should they not have a vote in presidential elections? Well for one, the president is the head of state, not of country or nation. And secondly, if you permit them to vote in presidential elections how could you justify denying them votes in referenda or even local / national elections?

    id assume local or dail elections would be based on constituencies.


  • #180
    golfball37
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭golfball37


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    None of those murdering terrorists from Sinn Fein/IRA will ever be President or Taoiseach of the 26 county Republic of Ireland.
    De Valera was both shur,having previously been what you describe.


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  • #181
    Painted Pony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭Painted Pony


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    id assume local or dail elections would be based on constituencies.
    How it might be done is besides the point. Where would the logic be in affording Northern Irish people a vote in a meaningless election for president but denying them a more important vote?


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