Gay? But married..

LegacyUser

Where to start..

Been married 7 years. I'm 37. Wife is 31. We have a beautiful little boy and girl together. Marriage has been up and down. Wife and I got married 9 months after meeting. Looking back, far too soon.

I worked in the IT industry and was very successful in the years before I married. I co-own my business with my best friend of 16 years, "X". He and I have a very long complicated history and he's the reason I'm writing this thread.

We became immediately close when we started working together. Had everything in common. I saw so much of myself in him, but he was so confident in himself compared to me being shy, I admired everything about his personality. Silly, fun, cocky, dorky, huge sense of humour, never took himself too seriously.

We went through some very tough times together, we travelled the world together for work and pleasure, we did everything together. We got to know each other better than either of us had ever known anyone before. He learned that I'm from a very strict Catholic upbringing. I learned that he came from an extremely unconventional upbringing free of rules or care.

He had moments where he displayed extreme vulnerability and mental unwellness. I protected him completely on days where he wasn't up to working. He covered for me when I couldn't handle stuff. We shared our party years, our womanising years. He confessed that he felt he was bisexual. He had one-night-stands with men but never a relationship.

Then 10 years ago something terrible happened. X had been going through a tough time, his relationship had ended. After a stupid argument, I said goodnight to X and went to bed. I was woken by the phone a couple of hours later to learn he had been in a horrible car accident and was on life-support in ICU. What followed was living hell.

In the hours and days that followed, we almost lost him many times. I never let go of his hand or left his side for a second because I was afraid he would die. I stared at his face for days into weeks watching for some kind of minor movement.

Months passed. He slowly improved. He started rehabilitation and found it extremely difficult. His personality was totally different. He was aggressive, frustrated and extremely depressed all of the time except when alone with me. I tried to have fun with him. We watched comedy films, tried to play board games. He was transferred to his home country for rehabilitation. I rented a house beside the rehab complex and ended up nursing him more than the complex did.
He became extremely attached to me from the moment he opened his eyes and panicked if I left him. He would refuse to make any effort to recover until I talked him around, usually several times daily. I didn't care, I didn't want to leave him, I wanted to help, I knew I could get through to him and get him back.

Months passed and he made huge improvements. His mobility returned to perfection. His personality was slowest to return.

He had terrible nightmares, couldn't sleep through the night. During this time we were often sharing a bed, I would wake him when he had nightmares. It was just friendship.

He fell in love. With me. I was angry. I walked away. I hated it. I didn't understand why he would say that he loved me like that.

He improved to the degree that he was ready to be alone again. I went back to work alone for a while. I couldn't say the words but with time to calm down I knew I felt the same about him. I told myself it was just something to do with what we'd been through, almost losing him.

He came back to work. Things were extremely awkward to begin with. Then we talked. He told me how much I had hurt him by rejecting. I felt terrible. I didn't want to acknowledge what I felt.

Things returned to normal.

One night of drinking and lines were crossed. We kissed, it didn't feel wrong. I allowed myself to realise that what I felt for him was deeper than anyone ever before. I didn't want to be apart from him for a second, I already knew everything about him, I trusted him completely with my life, I felt safe when we were together.

More time passed. We slept together. I had never been with a man before. It happened many more times. Became almost a regular thing.

He wanted to go public. He wanted us to be a couple. To tell our friends, family. I couldn't handle it. I blame my Catholic upbringing. I was never homophobic but I knew how many of the people around me are. It would affect my career, my business.
But most importantly, I wanted a family. I became completely caught up in the picket fence dream. I wanted the wife and the kids. Normality.

I told him it had to stop. He was heartbroken. I felt heart broken for breaking his heart. My decision led to him having a nervous breakdown. I caused this to the person I promised I'd be there for. (There were other factors involved, but I felt mostly responsible)

We somehow remained friends. I was there for him throughout.


I met a woman. It seemed right. I felt as in love as I had done with women before. But now my mind was opened to a different level of love because of X. I blocked everything out. I worked so hard on my new relationship. I convinced myself we could be happy, normal. We married. X told me he understood, and offered me his support. Our friendship became as strong as before.

My wife and I started a family. Our relationship suffered as soon as the children came along. She showed little interest in them or me. They blamed post natal depression. She felt she couldn't bond with either child. I did everything.

She no longer wanted sex, ever. I didn't just give up on my marriage. I tried everything to make it work. I tried to keep my heart in it. But all she wanted was to enjoy her life (shopping, lunch dates with friends), and that's never included the children and I. We tried counselling. She doesn't seem to see we have a problem. I wanted things to work. I wanted my children to have two parents.

I told myself my heart wasn't in it, so I worked harder, but nothing is good enough ever. She never knew anything of X and I, apart from us being best friends. She seemed to enjoy constantly arguing with me, disagreeing on everything. Her life revolves around dinner parties with rich clients of mine, I have no interest in my clients being part of my weekend life. I want to bond with my children, do family stuff.

Time has driven my mind back to X and I. I realised a couple of years ago that marriage was my biggest mistake. But I'd never have had my beloved children if I hadn't gone down that route. Now, I feel I need to make a change soon or end up forever lost in the mess I've created.

I dream every night (and every few hours during the day) about sharing a happy life; X, my children and I. Living somewhere quiet, where no-one cares to judge.


X since married. It broke my heart. I hated myself for being affected. I was so proud to be best man to him, for how far he'd come. I forced myself to be happy for him. He told me he was marrying the best woman for him but that he would never be able to love anyone as he loved me. He became a father 2 years ago.

We still work together full time, mostly overseas. My relationship with him is far deeper than friendship. We share everything. He knows I'm unhappy in my marriage and he knows why.

I don't know how much longer I can continue as I am. My wife knows nothing. And I have to question if she'd care either way. We've had separate bedrooms for over 2 years.

X's marriage is in better shape.

Nobody knows anything about the relationship X and I shared except one close friend of mine who I confided in several years ago. He advised me to end my marriage, be single for a while and wait for X to do the same.

I've messed with X's head far too many times. I can't be responsible for tearing apart his marriage and family.

I'm at a loss. I just don't know what to do anymore. I would want full custody of my children. I want too much. I don't know if I could handle all of the trauma and pain I would induce, so I'm likely to stay put and remain quietly unhappy.

I don't know what advice I'm looking for. I wish someone would tell me they've been through this and survived. But I know this is a rare one.

Please don't tear me to shreds. Let me state that I have not cheated on my wife. Nothing has happened between X and I since marriage.

I'm trying to keep everyone happy but how long should I sacrifice my own happiness for?

I am a friend

You poor pet... I wish I could give you a big hug. Do you know how x feels about you nOw? Would he leave?

LegacyUser

Hi OP,

I feel for you I really do. You sound like a genuinely nice person in a really complicated painful situation. I don't really know what to say to you but obviously if you chose to stay married you are doing both yourself and your wife a huge disservice by living a lie. I guess I would ask you can you live with the consequences of coming clean to your wife and others in your life about your sexuality and deal with the intitial fall out that this will generate? If X told you you had no future together would this make a difference? Would you be happy to remain in your marriage or would you find yourself attracted to other men and wanting to be with them? Is this all about x? have you thought about your sexuality with respect to other men?

A lot of questions I know but maybe some that you need to ask yourself. leaving a marriage for someone else generally causes drama, leaving for a same sex partner makes it a million times worse. What if you left for x and it didn't work out? Have you really thought this through? Could you take some time away from your wife and x and really think about this? Once you make the decision there is no going back. I would think long and heard about this before doing anything rash.

cafecolour

Irregardless of whether you can end up back with X or not, you marriage isn't a real marriage. Your wife almost seems to see you as a meal ticket, not a partner.

I'd start with getting a divorce. Generally, I think honesty is the best policy. However, in this case, I'm not sure you should tell your wife anything at this point about being gay - it seems like it might just provide her ammunition in the divorce settlement. Or perhaps discuss it with a solicitor.

After that you can proceed to building a new relationship - possibly with X, possibly with another guy.

beks101

My heart goes out to you OP. There's no easy answer to this one.

First of all, stop beating yourself up. Your post is so apologetic it's almost heart-breaking. You have done nothing wrong. You haven't cheated on your wife, you tried to save your marriage, by all accounts you're a good father and you were fair to X by ending it when you did because you couldn't provide him with the life that he wanted the two of you to have together. Remember that, though - you chose the picket fence dream, the wife and kids, and he had no choice but to move on too.

I think you need to stop overwhelming yourself with thoughts of how dramatically following your heart would impact on your life, family, business, reputation etc...and just slow down for a second. Baby steps.

You don't love your wife. That much is blatantly clear. Aside from your heart being elsewhere, you seem dismayed, frustrated and completely incompatible with her. Don't fool yourself into staying with her 'for the children' - they'd be much better off with two happy, loving parents than a mother and father who can't stand the sight of each other but stay in a loveless marriage out of guilt. It's only going to get worse as the years pass and children are very perceptive to these things.

Forget X and your potential future together for the time being and focus on the present. You need to sit down with your wife and have a serious conversation.

I would have advised getting some space away from X also, but I understand working so closely together probably wouldn't allow for this. But I really don't think it is healthy for either of you to be in such close proximity all the time, given your feelings for each other. It must be agony for you. Is there any way you can delegate to allow for less time in the office together, or can you spend less time outside the office with him...reconnect with other friends, confide in other people?

Finally I just want to say that you come across as a good, genuine, decent person and I have the utmost admiration for the unbelievable loyalty and compassion you showed for X after his accident. Not many people would go to the lengths you went to, to help him through it. You deserve happiness as much as anyone else does and I truly hope you find it, but it's going to take a lot of courage and a lot of patience. The very best of luck OP

G-Money

Tough situation OP and like others have said, there's no easy answers.

Your marriage does sound like it's dead in the water. There's two sides to every story but it does sound like your wife is more interested in being a socialite than anything else.

I normally wouldn't suggest divorce to married couples but I think things can get to the point where every other option has been exhausted and it's just a case that it's never going to be fixed. Unfortunately it seems like that might be the case here. I can't remember from your post, but have you tried marriage counselling? I have to admit I don't know much about that so it's hard to know how effective it will be.

I agree with a previous poster in that you should keep the whole gay thing a secret until the divorce is finalised. It is possible your wife could use that against you if you bring it up sooner and by the sounds of it, even if you were straight, and you never met X, the marriage still wouldn't be working anyway.

I'd suggest you sort the things out with your marriage anyway and look into the divorce options. The fact that you's are sleeping in two separate rooms and have been for the past few years, along with the other things you have mentioned, kind of proves the marriage is over and you really are married in name only. For all intents and purposes, you are two single people.

As for X, I think you are going to have to continue with what you are doing and that is, just being friends at most and nothing more. He is married now and you are to be commended for not interfering in that.

OP, I'd say sort the marriage out first, even if that means divorce. It's obvious it's not working and it sounds like there's not much else you can do about that.

We all look back on other times in our lives with rose-tinted glasses from time to time and while I don't doubt what you had and felt with X was real, I think your current unhappiness is possibly magnifying everything you had with X.

I'd hazard a guess that you'd be much happier if you were separated from your wife and living your own life. I think you current unhappiness is making you miss X more then you might possibly do if you were single and happy in general.

Anyway OP, I hope everything works out.

ennis81

Crying my eyes out after reading your story,, wish i could give you a big hug too, I dont know what to say about what you should do about X its a very complicated situation, but I do think that you need to leave your wife, your homelife sounds very disfunctional and I think you and the children would be better off alone.
You sound like a wonderful kind caring person and a great daddy and i'm so sorry that you have ended up in this situation xxx

Catari Jaguar

It sounds like your wife knows she's in a sham marriage tbh and is taking complete advantage of the lifestyle and your own personal guilt.

Get out of it if you can.

I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. It sounds like you belong together. It's a shame that people's small minded prejudices ruined what could have been.

You deserve to be happy

Wompa1

While I wouldn't condone cheating on the mother of your children, it sounds like you need out of your marriage. Your wife has no respect for you. You should have broke off your marriage when you realized you wanted to get physical with X...you probably missed the boat on that now. Good luck with your decision.

Fittle

Ok well I'll say it.

You should never have married your wife.

You are gay and the fact that she is not interested in a sex life with you (as you have explained) screams that she has picked up on you being gay, and realised that you aren't that interested in her, sexually.

Leave your wife, break up the sham of a marriage and keep in contact with your children. Perhaps pursue the relationship with your lost love, but as he is now married too, and living another lie, I doubt there would be much future in that.

You are gay and love men - embrace it and stop wasting your life, and your wife's life now, and allow both of you to live fulfilling lives, that include your children.

inexperienced

Fittle wrote: »

Ok well I'll say it.

You should never have married your wife.

You are gay and the fact that she is not interested in a sex life with you (as you have explained) screams that she has picked up on you being gay, and realised that you aren't that interested in her, sexually.

Leave your wife, break up the sham of a marriage and keep in contact with your children. Perhaps pursue the relationship with your lost love, but as he is now married too, and living another lie, I doubt there would be much future in that.

You are gay and love men - embrace it and stop wasting your life, and your wife's life now, and allow both of you to live fulfilling lives, that include your children.

????? Some people can be sexually attracted to both genders. This is what we called bisexual.

So, OP might be or might not be living a lie when he married his wife. Maybe at that time, he really loved her and was attracted to her sexually.

And same to X. He may or may not be living a lie now. He can also be sexually attracted to his wife, although he admitted that the love to OP was deeper (at the time he told OP, who knows now, maybe the love between X and his wife grows stronger through time...). X made the decision to live with a woman. OP did the same as he wanted a 'normal' life. Just now OP's marriage did not work out so OP missed the deep emotional bonding he has/had with X.

OP, as someone said, sort out your marriage first. One thing at a time.

Since X is married, I think it's better you leave it. Divorce but not to get back to X, but to get out of the miserable marriage.

I know it might be difficult, but if the contact stirs your feelings, I think you need to keep the contact with X the minimal if you cant cut the contact.

He is your ex. Do what you would usually do with him as you did with your exs to protect yourself and him.

WhatWillBee

OP, you dont sound like you even like your wife, nevermind love her.

You need to look at your marriage outside of this other guy and see if it's what you really want. You need to forget about this guy for the moment and get your life on track one way or another.


If you leave your wife, are happily single with a good relationship with your kids and would be comfortable to be in a public relationship with another man, ONLY THEN you should you even consider pursuing your friend and letting him know how you feel.

Also, be prepared that you might do all this and he won't want to leave HIS wife. You have to do this for you.

Fittle

inexperienced wrote: »

????? Some people can be sexually attracted to both genders. This is what we called bisexual.

So, OP might be or might not be living a lie when he married his wife. Maybe at that time, he really loved her and was attracted to her sexually.

.

I'm well aware what bisexual is:rolleyes:

The very title of the OP's thread is asking if he is gay however, not if he's bisexual.
Have you read the post? He is in love with the man - and admits he married the woman way too quickly, and from the start, it never seemed like a proper marriage.

OP, you need to end the marriage, no matter what else you do. For both your sakes.

trio

Since X is married, I think it's better you leave it. Divorce but not to get back to X, but to get out of the miserable marriage.

+1. You're mixing everything up together and no wonder your head is wrecked.

But your marriage would still be a mess if X never even existed, because she has no interest in you or the kids or family life. So what I'm saying is, even if X had never been born you'd still be looking at a divorce.

I would also counsel not mentioning X or your sexuality during the process. No way. It will be used as a weapon. Admit to your wife that you love X and there is no way she'll believe that you were faithful. She'll accuse you of suspected adultery. And you can say till you're blue in the face that nothing happened, but she'll believe what suits her.

And what is true is that emotionally you were in love with someone else pretty much the whole marriage. That would be devastating for her to find out regardless of her lack of interest in you - I don't think you need to do that to her.

And of course it could get back to X's wife and by God that would be dreadful for him. Because his marriage is OK, on the surface. And he has a kid too.

And finally - you admitting you have doubts about your sexuality could have implications for the custody agreement. You have to be squeaky clean when trying to get custody.

To be honest, I doubt you'd get full custody. I'm no expert, but I've never heard of the man getting full custody here unless the mother has a substance abuse problem, or a mental health issue.

If you keep your sexuality out of it though, it might actually be a fairly civilised break with a decent custody arangement that suits you.

The best of luck.

LegacyUser

OP here.

Firstly, I'm blown away by the replies here. I expected to be torn to shreds for thinking like this while married. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to read and respond with helpful words.

I should clear up a few points that have come up in the replies.


I know that X still feels the same about me, BUT I also know that he is quite happy in his marriage and loves his child and he wouldn't leave that life on a whim (unless he was absolutely sure we were in it for the long-run, stable). Perhaps he wouldn't leave at all, I don't know about that. But he still loves me now as he did then. He still depends on me and my opinions and advice far more than he should for a married man. He's still far more comfortable with me than anyone else, as I am with him.

We chalked it up as the best friendship anyone ever had for years but it probably was always deeper than that.

A huge factor in all of this that I should have included in my opening post but didn't is the following; the reason I wrote "Gay [question mark]" is because I'm not fully sure. The reason I'm unsure is that I haven't spent years looking at random guys and thinking mm, he's nice. I believe that what I feel is unique for X, I don't know if I could feel like that about other guys. I think most of this revolves around him. It's almost that anatomy doesn't matter because it's so much deeper than that. I just happened to find a person in life who is 100% compatible with me, but I wasn't ready to handle that at the time I found it. And that person just happens to be the same sex as me.


There is another piece of information that's probably a factor. I lost a family member in a similar type of car accident when I was in my teens. I spent years battling the helplessness of the situation. Learning your loved one was gone and not being able to do anything, not getting time to say goodbye before they passed away.
With X, I got the chance to be there for the months that followed, to try and "fix" the situation, I was involved in every step of the way and he tells me pretty much every day that he would never have walked again or been able to take care of himself if I hadn't kept at him (he has a huge quitter attitude), forcing him to work a little harder and to keep trying.
Being there with him probably healed a lot of the pain I carried from the past. I felt as though I had got a second chance with such a situation. But thinking back through that time now and how incredibly complicated it was to have put my world on hold, shut down my business throughout his recovery and just concentrated on him - I never could have or would have done that for anyone else. I wasn't just trying to be a good person, I did it because I couldn't have survived, being away from the situation and wondering if he was okay, not knowing for sure, not seeing first hand.



I genuinely did love my wife when we first met. I was blown away by everything about her. It was a whirlwind romance. I had just come through pure hell with X, the hospital, the rehab, everything was abnormal and I must have convinced myself that what happened between us was just part of that turmoil.
I just wanted my life to be normal again, everything between X and I was over and done with, I met a beautiful woman who matched everything I'm attracted to in women and I fell for her. It was fine until the children came along. My wife found it very hard that our time together was no longer filled with just the two of us.

Comments about me not even liking my wife are very hurtful to me, so I guess that says something. There have been a lot of issues in my marriage but none have had anything whatsoever to do with X.
I have begged my wife to come to marriage counselling, we have done several stints, I feel I have tried everything in my power to make my marriage work and I believe a lot of the issues within it are beyond my control. She doesn't want to do further counselling and is happy to continue as we are.

Fittle wrote:

You should never have married your wife.

You are gay and the fact that she is not interested in a sex life with you (as you have explained) screams that she has picked up on you being gay, and realised that you aren't that interested in her, sexually.

Disagree with the above. It's a very simplistic approach and not accurate to my situation.
As stated above, I was not involved with X when I married, it was the past, a mess that I just wanted to forget at that time. I wasn't ready to accept what had happened. I was shocked by my own behaviour. I was sitting in the pub beside friends who talked about "disgusting qu**rs" and their "sick behaviour" and I'd sink into my chair feeling I couldn't handle being on the receiving end of that.

Many years have passed, I have become a father, I have changed my outlook on life completely and am a stronger person, better able to walk away from and forget words from people with that attitude.

I have been very interested in my wife sexually, we had several excellent years with a very healthy functional sex life, we were a great couple but sex got less and less frequent, as did all affection, which has left me feeling cold.

Our second child changed our sex life dramatically. My wife was not interested in ever doing night feeds (or any feeds), refused to breastfeed because she didn't want to be tied to our baby all the time. This attitude deeply upset me and put me into a very stressful situation, taking a baby to work where possible to feed/take care of.

I spent a lot of time concerned that my body shape had changed, that I had become unattractive to her, that time was taking its toll on me. All of these issues were discussed in counselling and my wife just wasn't interested in sex and saw it as unnecessary once we had our family made.

I don't know if I'm bisexual (far more likely than gay I guess) but I do think that what I feel for X is the deepest purest love I ever imagined to be possible. I never imagined in my life being able to be that close to another human, and I don't think it's ever mattered to me what sex he is, it's beyond that, it's not a factor. I pushed it out of my mind as best I could when the relationship ended and I got away with it for a while, but it kept on burning in the back of my mind until I couldn't ignore it anymore. It never cooled off and died like I thought it would.

Avoiding him is impossible. Work means we will always be together. Normally, I'm a firm believer that exes should have zero contact once the relationship ends but I've never been capable of doing that with X.
I could talk to him about all of this now and see where I stand but I don't want to do it to him, I don't want to re-awaken this in him and destroy his life which is now fairly happy.


Overall, we both have okay lives. Normal, drifting along, okay.

Together, it would probably be up and down and the wonderful days would be followed by pain and rejection from friends and family who do not support us in our choice. But I find myself longing for a handful of those days every now and then, filled with being loved and cared for.


I don't want to lose my children.

That, and X's wife/child, are the factors that probably mean I'll have to stay put in the situation I'm in.

I'm not living a lie because my wife knows I'm unhappy - she knows I want to fix our marriage but is not interested in doing so.

If I come across as angry with her, that's probably because I am a little; I can't walk away from my children and watch their mother getting full custody, knowing she won't take as much interest in them as they deserve. My children are very attached to me, I take them everywhere with me. I can't do it to them.

When I write it out like that, it makes everything seem a bit more hopeless...

inexperienced

OP, i feel for you. you have tried every thing to save your marriage, but one cant too much, it needs two to make the relationship work.

what do you think about your marriage now?
savable?
unsavable?

what makes you wanna save your marriage? for your kids? for your parents? or for yourself? do yourself really want to save it because you believe you would be far more happy with her if this marriage is healthy?

if your wife is willing to try, do you wanna try to work it out? why do you wanna try it out? if your marriage works, are you genuinely happy in it or you would still dream of the other opportunity with x?

having said so though, i do think that we sometimes do miss the good times with other previous lovers no matter what. every one is unique and they brought you unique memory in your life, so im sure x would still remember the good times those days you helped him out. same logic apply, you surely have fond memory of days you spent time with your wife.

if your wife is failing to try, what can you do? do you wanna live in this unhappy for your whole life?

do you know wether your wife is happy in this marriage? do you think she loves you now? do you think your wife would be happy to have the divorce?

can you give her an ultimatum?

LegacyUser

inexperienced wrote: »

OP, i feel for you. you have tried every thing to save your marriage, but one cant too much, it needs two to make the relationship work.

what do you think about your marriage now?
savable?
unsavable?

what makes you wanna save your marriage? for your kids? for your parents? or for yourself? do yourself really want to save it because you believe you would be far more happy with her if this marriage is healthy?

if your wife is willing to try, do you wanna try to work it out? why do you wanna try it out? if your marriage works, are you genuinely happy in it or you would still dream of the other opportunity with x?

having said so though, i do think that we sometimes do miss the good times with other previous lovers no matter what. every one is unique and they brought you unique memory in your life, so im sure x would still remember the good times those days you helped him out. same logic apply, you surely have fond memory of days you spent time with your wife.

if your wife is failing to try, what can you do? do you wanna live in this unhappy for your whole life?

do you know wether your wife is happy in this marriage? do you think she loves you now? do you think your wife would be happy to have the divorce?

can you give her an ultimatum?

OP here. You ask some very good questions and I'm not sure I've come up with answers to all of them yet, but I think that's something I need to do before I make any life-changing decisions.

Some days, I get by just fine and everything seems okay.
Then there are days like today where the work day is just so much fun, X and I have endless laughter and then 6.30pm comes along and it's time to wind down and go home and this sadness draws over me. Of course I can't wait to spend time with my children but this sense of dread also falls on me, I can't explain it.

I look at X laughing and being so happy and I just wish for all the world that we could get into the same car and go home to the same house and laugh the evening away.

Instead I just feel empty and alone and the only way to relieve it is to pick up the phone and talk to X while watching the queen on the news or whatever, just to pass the time after the kids have gone to bed.

It's almost a relief to talk to someone who knows the truth, the real me. I know he knows how I'm feeling right now, he knows when I'm having a down day, and he'll usually call me just to chat, to cheer me up. It hurts that my wife either doesn't notice or doesn't acknowledge. And I feel angry at myself for behaving and thinking the way I am.

I wanted to save my marriage for me, for my wife, and for the kids. I wanted to be sure I had done all in my power so I couldn't blame myself if the future isn't how I see it. I want my children to know I did try, but it's hard when you can't stop thinking about the past and having that deep yearning for what you felt then.

Thanks for your reply.

Sleepy

From the sounds of things, your wife would be quite happy to let you have full custody of the kids once you gave her substantial enough alimony. Of course, she also sounds the sort who'd want custody because of what the neighbours would think if she didn't get it so a joint custody situation could well be on the cards.

Given the parasitic way in which you describe her though, any reasonably amicable split is going to be *very* expensive for you though.

beks101

lostandconfused wrote: »

Instead I just feel empty and alone and the only way to relieve it is to pick up the phone and talk to X while watching the queen on the news or whatever, just to pass the time after the kids have gone to bed.

It's almost a relief to talk to someone who knows the truth, the real me. I know he knows how I'm feeling right now, he knows when I'm having a down day, and he'll usually call me just to chat, to cheer me up.

You are absolutely, categorically not going to get over this man and live a happy life if you continue with this behaviour. There are simply no boundaries in the relationship you have with him and if you want to make a serious stab at giving your marriage a chance and/or moving out from the shadow of your past with X, you're going to have to exercise a no-bull**** tough love approach to the whole scenario and re-evaluate a few things.

As difficult as the situation is and as much as I empathise with you, you could go around in these miserable circles for the next 10, 20, hell 30+ years and above all else, what sort of example is that for your kids, for their father to be whiling away his days in a miserable marriage, living a lie and wasting his life pining after someone he will never have? Because let's face it, none of your posts have suggested you are willing to come clean about your feelings and embark on a new life with him.

As somebody else said, X is your ex and you should treat him as such. The closeness you have as friends is inappropriate, given your feelings and your respective marriages. You should not be phoning him or he you in the after hours when he is at home with his wife, and it is not his responsibility to cheer you up, no matter how unsupportive or unsympathetic your wife is. He no longer is your partner and that closeness is very damaging for you - it's deepening the emotional attachment you have to him and making it further impossible for you to move on.

Until you put some boundaries in place in this friendship, your head is going to be all over the place and the vicious circle is going to continue. Pick someone new to confide in and to call in the evenings, or go for a walk/run/cycle or maybe even think about seeing a counsellor who you can confide in when you're feeling empty and alone, without the same repercussions as talking to X. Don't talk to him outside of office hours and limit the time you spend socialising with him. It's all good and well for people to empathise with you but it's time to get real here. This isn't just about you anymore, there are families involved and if you really believe your feelings for him are insurmountable and yet are unwilling to do anything about it, it's time to get practical about things.

You need head space from him. The less of it you get, the worse the situation will get. Maybe once there is a bit of emotional space between you two, you will find the strength to face your marriage problems without factoring him into it and you will be able to start making some life decisions for you and you alone. But really OP, you're not giving yourself a chance if you continue the way you are as your feelings for him are just clouding your judgement over and over again. Forget about him for the moment. Deal with your marriage. Don't waste any more time.

tenchi-fan

I think we have a good plot for a spiritual sequel to brokeback mountain.

Op, you will get a lot of advice to take the easy road.... so let me play devil's advocate.

Everyone likes a love story, and while your opening post was truly heart warming, it makes for an exhausting and unfulfilling life.

You realised a long time ago that this man could not give you the children and the respect of your community. And now all he's really giving you are vague promises that if you embrace a gay lifestyle you might be happy with him. He's your pal, your lover and your confidant. And let's face it, you idolise him a bit. He's assertive and masculine and everything you're not.

So you tried the best with your wife. You can still visit your kids! So you can have your cake and eat it without any sense of guilt?

lostandconfused wrote:

I saw so much of myself in him, but he was so confident in himself compared to me being shy, I admired everything about his personality.

This is what worries me the most. The stereo-typical, homophobic and often rubbished view is that gay men enter father-son type relationships; they mistake male comradery for sexual relationships; and that they don't understand gender roles. Yet here we are.

Next, your wife is a socialite and a weak woman. I think that one of the most damaged things about the world these days, that what used to be negative traits are seen as empowering. She neglects her children, but by associating with these businessmen she feels powerful and independent. But this is her flaw, not yours.

It's not her job to make sure that family stays together. That's your job, as her Husband. "Husband" comes from the term "master of the house". "Wife" comes from the term "female human being." So, in traditional, sexist terms, your role is to manage your household.
**I'm not looking for an argument with other posters. This is the literal meaning of the words "Husband" and "Wife" and how they're understood by the church where the op and his wife got married!

You can't turn around years later and say, actually, I'm emotional and delicate and I need a big, strong man to treat me well. But that seems to be the option you're thinking about. Chances are, X will turn you down and stay with his own wife (after all, he's comfortable with his masculinity and knows he has obligations towards his family)

I'm sorry for being so blunt. If you didn't have kids I'd suggest an annulment and follow your heart. As it stands, you really need to put a bit more effort into your marriage.

I suggest you buy and read a book called Be A Man. It's entertaining and it's not aimed at gay men, and being from a catholic upbringing you might see some biblical advice in a new light.

You should also take some of your cash and go for counselling or therapy. Talk things over with someone who is independent and objective and won't mess with your head.

miec

Hello Op

When I read your post I was deeply moved, so much so I cried.

For me I see a number of factors at play,

I never imagined in my life being able to be that close to another human, and I don't think it's ever mattered to me what sex he is, it's beyond that, it's not a factor.

I would agree with you on this, judging from your posts, there is something in X that draws you to him, for me I could see a deep and abiding love, something that transcends sexuality, etc. For me I see that you love him and both of you relate to each other on a deep level. For me that is a given. Forget being gay and all that stuff, you love him as a person. Now considering you work together, still see each other, in essence you both have some form of a relationship so that is worth bearing in mind. You have not lost him and he is still a big part of your life. The question is do you want to share all of your life with him?

Which brings me to the conundrum of your current life. You have said that you and your wife are or have attended counseling, yet Op you have held back a massive aspect of your past life which does, no matter how much you think you hide, effects her. Women are canny, and she will have picked up the vibe between you and X. She will have sensed that you have a deep bond. Also this past aspect of your life is affecting your present life but you have chosen to hide it. Even though we do not discuss things with a partner they often get a sense of something not being right but they are unable to put a finger on it. If you decide to enter therapy, in my opinion you have to be completely honest (I have done a lot of therapy) now the question is, is your wife the type of person who can handle the truth? Only you know that. I hear that you are a devoted father, and being a father is a massive thing for you, but it is not fair or kind to your children to live in a loveless marriage that has secrets. Kids pick all that stuff up. If I could advise people on one thing it would be this... be aware of and bring to light against the unspoken stuff, it has a corrosive effect on others. You are free to dismiss what I am saying but as someone who is nearing 40 and done a hell of a lot of living and being a parent who lives an honest life, it is the only way to be. It is tough living the honest life but in a strange way adults and children get it.

When I was reading your post I saw a beautiful giving man who is conflicted and troubled. Now I cannot advise you about what X should do in his marriage, that is for him to deal with, but I would advise you to get to know who you are better, it is obvious your marriage is over in reality, the key thing is to manage what to do afterwards in relation to your children. Don't get hung up on the whole are you gay thing or what? I am a relatively straight woman who has girl crushes, I still don't know what my sexuality is, for me I realise it is about the heart of the person and Op that is what matters. Nothing else. Take time out, think, decide what to do with your children, your wife, honour yourself, your life and dreams, we only get one life. When you know what you want go for it but don't expect that you will get the magical outcome but know you had the courage to follow your dreams and reach for the stars. Finally, live your life according to your needs and your rules... no one else Op, that is the only way to live. I wish you all the luck, love and light in your journey.

Munstermad

I just want to say this, apologies for the cheesy lines but they are so true....Life is precious and short...you are not living, you are existing..... True honest reciprocated love is rarer then anything else on this planet... embrace it...
In my mind the advice to raise your babies and leave the marriage are what ring truest and hopefully your x will follow suit... But even if he doesn't you owe yourself a life... Not this limbo you have ended up in!!!.. You seem like a decent genuine loving man...any man/woman would be lucky to have you... Forget the guilt the regrets.... Love yourself first and everything else will follow.xxxx

Elle Collins

lostandconfused wrote: »

There have been a lot of issues in my marriage but none have had anything whatsoever to do with X.

Sorry OP but I have to say I think you're deluding yourself there. You've had this 'best friend' (as far as your wife's been concerned) in your life for the whole of your marriage, when in actual fact this person was a spurned lover - if you think that hasn't had a negative effect on your marriage I don't know what to say to you.

As for standing beside him as best man while he was getting married to yet another woman who hadn't a clue what was going on around her, all I can say is your actions and his could cause nothing but utter devestation to any woman unfortunate enough to fall in love with either of you. My heart goes out to both women, and to the unfortunate kids on both sides.

If you're unhappy, well, pity about you. YOU designed this mess; I guess the best you can do now is get comfortable in it.

CdeC

tenchi-fan wrote: »

This is what worries me the most. The stereo-typical, homophobic and often rubbished view is that gay men enter father-son type relationships; they mistake male comradery for sexual relationships; and that they don't understand gender roles. Yet here we are.

I find this statement extremely offensive, gay men go for years with trying to sort out their feelings and emotional state in a society that demands they be heterosexual. I think you really need to re-examine your ideas on a subject of which you have very limited knowledge.

To the OP, I personally would urge you to exhaust every avenue when it comes to repairing your marraige. Kids are involved and you have stated that you would prefer to be a happy family. But having come from a broken home myself I have to say that years on after the breakup I have a better relationship with both parents and all my siblings than I would ever have had if my parents had stayed together. It was the worst thing that ever happened (so far) to myself and my family but we got through it.

Also a previous poster commented about Mr X as an ex, I agree. You need to put him out of the equation. What action you take needs to be for you and for your children.

I really hope this works out OP.