Why are the self employed being targeted yet again?!

hatrickpatrick

Joan burton wrote:

"The second will be this issue of whether or not people who are self-employed should also have a structure where they can pay some kind of insurance premium to provide for social insurance against unemployment."

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/new-commission-to-discuss-social-welfare-changes-504959.html

Seriously... What... The... Fuck???

So it's like, no jobs in the country, emigrate or enterprise. Enterprise - wait no, hang on a second, if I go out on my own, I'll be punished for it by the government.

Have they lost any semblance of sanity?!

dan_d

?

I read that as being the other way around - no?

hatrickpatrick

dan_d wrote: »

?

I read that as being the other way around - no?

I read it as, if you're self employed you will have to pay an extra tax, a "premium", for the unemployed...?

Dale Parish

dan_d wrote: »

?

I read that as being the other way around - no?

Nope it's like wringing a dry towel.

dan_d

Emm....I thought what she was saying was that you would pay some form of tax - an "insurance" - which would then be paid back to you if your business goes bust basically as dole payments...? (if you're self employed)

Why can't she just say it in clear language?

(Edit - dry towel??? I'm totally confused!!!)

hatrickpatrick

dan_d wrote: »

Why can't she just say it in clear language?

Because she's a politician, and to tell the truth about something to the people is an appalling suggestion. Sure nobody does that these days, that's what Wikileaks is for.

irishh_bob

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/new-commission-to-discuss-social-welfare-changes-504959.html

Seriously... What... The... Fuck???

So it's like, no jobs in the country, emigrate or enterprise. Enterprise - wait no, hang on a second, if I go out on my own, I'll be punished for it by the government.

Have they lost any semblance of sanity?!

because most of them are too busy , not wealthy enough and not organised enough to cause the goverment annoyance through unions , they are also not seen as victims by the media unlike the likes of pensioners , wellfare recipients etc

hatrickpatrick

^^^

But surely anyone can see that self employment is actually what this country needs at the moment? Discouraging enterprise beggars belief. We need to encourage more people to make things happen for themselves instead of waiting around for the economy to recover on its own, so why are we penalizing them for doing so?!

phormium

Fairly sure she is referring to the fact that at the moment if your self employment fails you are unable to draw jobseekers benefit or assistance, presume she means that the prsi for self employed should be changed/increased in some way to provide for these benefits when needed. This would actually make it more attractive to become self employed whereas at the moment if your business fails you get nothing from welfare.

wylo

She phrased it a bit vaguely, but my take on it is, try and get self employed people in a position where if they become unemployed they will be "insured", i.e. some dole equivalent.
So its like "You can have your dole...but you're gonna have to pay for it"

Have to agree that the general self-employment situation in Ireland is dire and needs to be looked at urgently.

sollar

Is it not about them paying an insurance like PRSI so they can avail of dole if they need it

Tipp Man

sollar wrote: »

Is it not about them paying an insurance like PRSI so they can avail of dole if they need it

Ah self employed do pay PRSI. It's an absolute disgrace that they can't claim any jobseekers after paying this kind of money

taken from revenue.ie
PRSI - Self-Employed

Class S (Self-Employed)

Tax Year 2010 Self Employed Income chargeable as below:Total3% PRSI and 4% Health Contribution on all income up to €75,0367%3% PRSI and 5% Health Contribution on all income over €75,0368%
Self-employed persons are exempt from Health Contribution where the annual income is €26,000 or less in 2010 or 2011. The minimum annual PRSI contribution is €253

Scofflaw

Tipp Man wrote: »

Ah self employed do pay PRSI. It's an absolute disgrace that they can't claim any jobseekers after paying this kind of money

taken from revenue.ie
PRSI - Self-Employed

Class S (Self-Employed)

Tax Year 2010 Self Employed Income chargeable as below:Total3% PRSI and 4% Health Contribution on all income up to €75,0367%3% PRSI and 5% Health Contribution on all income over €75,0368%
Self-employed persons are exempt from Health Contribution where the annual income is €26,000 or less in 2010 or 2011. The minimum annual PRSI contribution is €253

Current benefits available to the self-employed (class S):

Benefit|Class A|Class J|Class S|Class B|Class C|Class D|Class E|Class H|Class P
Adoptive Benefit|√| |√| | | |√|√|
Bereavement Grant|√| |√|√|√|√|√|√|
Carer's Benefit|√| | |√|√|√|√|√|
Disability Benefit|√| | | | | |√|√|*
Health and Safety Benefit|√| | | | | |√|√|
Invalidity Pension|√| | | | | |√|√|
Maternity Benefit|√| |√| | | |√|√|
Occupational Injuries Benefit|√|√| | | |√| | |
Old Age Contributory Pension|√| |√| | | |√|√|
Orphan's Contributory Allowance|√| |√|√|√|√|√|√|
Retirement Pension|√| | | | | |√|√|
Treatment Benefit|√| | | | | |√|√|√
Unemployment Benefit|√| | | | | | | |*
Widow's or Widower's Contributory Pension|√| |√|√|√|√|√|√|

I read this as being probably that over a certain threshold, the self-employed will be obliged to make additional contributions, but will be entitled to more in the way of unemployment payments in return.

cordially,
Scofflaw

gigino

My brother is always harping on that the self employed , compared to paye workers, pay more tax - as they do not have a PAYE allowance which all paye workers have. In addition they have to spend money getting an accountant to do tax returns and/or audit accounts. Yet, if they have a assets like a property or a spouse working, they are not entitled to unemployment payments if / when business does not work out, for whatever reason.

wiseguy

gigino wrote: »

My brother is always harping on that the self employed , compared to paye workers, pay more tax - as they do not have a PAYE allowance which all paye workers have. In addition they have to spend money getting an accountant to do tax returns and/or audit accounts. Yet, if they have a assets like a property or a spouse working, they are not entitled to unemployment payments if / when business does not work out, for whatever reason.

Your brother is correct:

• Proprietary directors loose the PAYE tax credit
• Small company accounts costs anything from 1000-1500 a year and up to do by accountant/auditor