Lough Erne gone into administration

whocares86

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-13382977

not surprised really £75 for a round of golf midweek . cant be too busy

1916

Wow that was quick. Rory probably will be removing the badge straiaght away then

davo10

Last year our club tried to organise a round of golf for 30 of us, dinner afterwards and as we were going up by bus we would have stayed there drinking for the evening. They would not give us any reduction on the normal green fee, we went to another club and dropped over €2k in total there. This news is no surprise.

Trampas

Same with me. Tried to organise a price for around 30 and no movement on price. offered both sterling or euro price.

euro price would be set and wouldn't move it sterling move so it could swing both ways

whocares86

would i be correct in thinking Concra wood is the same type of course standard / layout. open singles on a tuesday in concra is €30. happy days

Kace

davo10 wrote: »

Last year our club tried to organise a round of golf for 30 of us, dinner afterwards and as we were going up by bus we would have stayed there drinking for the evening. They would not give us any reduction on the normal green fee, we went to another club and dropped over €2k in total there. This news is no surprise.

Somehow I think that there may be some much better deals to be had here in the not too distant future !!

golfwallah

whocares86 wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-13382977

not surprised really £75 for a round of golf midweek . cant be too busy

"The bigger they are, the harder they fall".

Emelio

This news devestate me much.

davo10

Kace wrote: »

Somehow I think that there may be some much better deals to be had here in the not too distant future !!

You're not wrong there Kace, I'd like to play it because I heard it is good. This is worrying for all clubs though, I have not heard of one club that is doing well, will there be many more clubs in the same predicament?, I hope not as to have a good course money has to be spent and debt accumalated.

zztop

Apparently Rory was paying the wages at the resort
for the past couple of months.

Tom Fiat

ye guys dont understand the concept of an efficient golf business model.
back in my hometown we got courses falling over each other with customers flooding in Mon to Sunday.
It aint that complex - why the hell though does every golf entrepreneur in Ireland feel the need to tie on a spa, 5* facility, ass-licking service, etc
Man I play in the Euro Club down in Wicklow when located in Dublin - great course, no fuss.
Thats what the real golfer wants.
Get it?

GetInTheHole!

Tom Fiat wrote: »

ye guys dont understand the concept of an efficient golf business model.
back in my hometown we got courses falling over each other with customers flooding in Mon to Sunday.
It aint that complex - why the hell though does every golf entrepreneur in Ireland feel the need to tie on a spa, 5* facility, ass-licking service, etc
Man I play in the Euro Club down in Wicklow when located in Dublin - great course, no fuss.
Thats what the real golfer wants.
Get it?

AWESOME...!!

darraghjm

Super golf course, played it around last March and was really impressed with the course. Always thought it would be a good place for a european tour event. I wasn't in the hotel but it looked pretty fancy from the pictures I saw and I was only in the clubhouse to pay the green fee and that looked impressive as well.

The prices they were charging were high alright, but that was the market they were aiming at, think they were trying to put themselves on the same level as Carton house, Druids Glen.

Hope it doesn't close down as it is a great golf course, but at the same time you can see why it is in trouble giving that to play it today it would be £105sterling, to play the others today: carton house €55, druids glen €70.

thewobbler

I've played Lough Erne a few times. It's a superb course and a blissful walk.

But, there is a stubborn unwillingness to adapt in their business model. Enniskillen is neither big enough nor wealthy enough to support a course like this through membership fees, so their business model is utterly reliant on green fees, and they've gone about this the wrong way.

You can aim for the tourist trade all you like, but it's locals, hinterlanders and regular visitors to the area who will always plump up the majority of green fees in a year. Just a couple of hundred regular visitors - once-a-monthers - can be the difference between profit and loss.

Social golfers can't justify the fee, and will only play it once in a very blue moon. Besides, social golfers would generally be happier on the less pretentious fairways at Enniskillen or Castle Hume.

As far as I know, the regular traffic of the seniors market just isn't entertainined.

Members of Enniskillen and Castle Hume - well they're like members everywhere else. They'll play their own course every week of the year, and maybe pay Lough Erne an occasional visit for a treat. They're not going to pay £105 to play golf in their area very often.

Move out to the nearest big towns in Donegal, Cavan and Sligo, and you have to ask, why would avid golfers in these counties drive to play Lough Erne, when the likes of Enniscrone, Rosses Point, Rossapenna, Ballyliffin, Slieve Russell and Farnham Estate are closer, and cost physically half as much to play?

I couldn't believe the sheer emptiness of the place the last time I was up in September. We played on a glorious 22 degree Friday, and had the course to ourselves. I attended a wedding at the hotel on the Saturday, a day which was even warmer, and spent a large part of the afternoon overlooking the 18th green. The distances groups could be measured in hours rather than minutes.

Standards are standards, but a healthy timesheet pays for them.

Osgoodisgood

Tom Fiat wrote: »

ye guys dont understand the concept of an efficient golf business model.
back in my hometown we got courses falling over each other with customers flooding in Mon to Sunday.
It aint that complex - why the hell though does every golf entrepreneur in Ireland feel the need to tie on a spa, 5* facility, ass-licking service, etc
Man I play in the Euro Club down in Wicklow when located in Dublin - great course, no fuss.
Thats what the real golfer wants.
Get it?

No, I'm still struggling, could you run that clever stuff by me again? And maybe you could adopt a more contemptuous attitude next time?

k.p.h

Look it dosen't take genius to realize that people are not going to pay large green fees in this economic climate. It also dose not take an einstein to realize that 5* luxury hotels and hot stone massages are long way away from value expenditure.

It's pretty obvious that the thing to do is reduce the cost and get numbers through. Even put in place a business plan to make the business solvent until things pick up.

GreeBo

darraghjm wrote: »

Super golf course, played it around last March and was really impressed with the course. Always thought it would be a good place for a european tour event. I wasn't in the hotel but it looked pretty fancy from the pictures I saw and I was only in the clubhouse to pay the green fee and that looked impressive as well.

The prices they were charging were high alright, but that was the market they were aiming at, think they were trying to put themselves on the same level as Carton house, Druids Glen.

Hope it doesn't close down as it is a great golf course, but at the same time you can see why it is in trouble giving that to play it today it would be £105sterling, to play the others today: carton house €55, druids glen €70.

Course is still lovely but the clubhouse & spa have gone a bit grotty over the years, obviously cant afford to keep it at 5* levels.

I reckon its in trouble because 90% of people accidentally play at Castle Hume

SARZY

Osgoodisgood wrote: »

No, I'm still struggling, could you run that clever stuff by me again? And maybe you could adopt a more contemptuous attitude next time?

The man is writing in his native tongue. Its not contempt, its language.
Have you ever been outside this kip.

darraghjm

GreeBo wrote: »

Course is still lovely but the clubhouse & spa have gone a bit grotty over the years, obviously cant afford to keep it at 5* levels.

I reckon its in trouble because 90% of people accidentally play at Castle Hume

We went to play it on a saturday and it was a bit frosty and lough erne was closed, so we ended up playing Castle Hume instead as it was open and coming back to play Lough erne on the sunday. I'd say a lot of people eat in Castle hume as well, prices for grub were a bit better down there as well

WHIP IT!

Some courses just don't get it. Got an email from Luttrellstown this week about their "special offer" green fee til the end of September... €45.... nothing special about that, lads.

There are great rounds of golf out there for €20-30, courses are going to have to face reality or go the way of Loch Earn.

Aidric

WHIP IT! wrote: »

There are great rounds of golf out there for €20-30, courses are going to have to face reality or go the way of Loch Earn.

Bet they wished they had.

golfwallah

Aidric wrote: »

Bet they wished they had.

"My other piece of advice, Copperfield, said Mr. Micawber, you know. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery".

There's plenty of value around in green fees and people can easily find out where on sites like teetimes.ie or by just googling something like "value green fees dublin".;)

Ford4000

I was in no way shocked when i heard the news castle hume was in bother, i worked on the construction of the course for 3 years and the amount of money wasted there was just shocking !! The crux of the matter is that the site was not suitable for the course from day 1 ! ! The cost of developing the site was astronomical before even initial shaping began, Lough edges were made up of a material i can only describe as blue soup, its a subsoil heavily water laden which has very little density, this had to be dug out and the remaining ground stabilised, i still have nightmares about that place but it did turn out really well !!

The_Architect

Ford4000 wrote: »

I was in no way shocked when i heard the news castle hume was in bother, i worked on the construction of the course for 3 years and the amount of money wasted there was just shocking !! The crux of the matter is that the site was not suitable for the course from day 1 ! ! The cost of developing the site was astronomical before even initial shaping began, Lough edges were made up of a material i can only describe as blue soup, its a subsoil heavily water laden which has very little density, this had to be dug out and the remaining ground stabilised, i still have nightmares about that place but it did turn out really well !!

If you're at liberty to say, could you give us an approximate cost of construction and grow-in for the course alone (all facilities aside)?


Thanks

Kid Charlemagne

SARZY wrote: »

The man is writing in his native tongue. Its not contempt, its language.
Have you ever been outside this kip.

Plus he makes a valid point - after all, who here has ever finished a round of golf and thought, now what would really hit the spot would be a green tea facial followed by a pirhanafish pedicure and an organic spraytan.

No - what the average golfer wants after a round is a feed of steak and pints.

endabob1

Surely the idea is that the little lady gets her nails done while the menfolk play golf and they all get together for a spot of dinner in the evening; It's a pretty tried and tested formula elsewhere in the world, I just don't think it's in a great location

patravers

well im from around 20 mins drive from Lough Erne but live in Laois. I was home for the week last week and decided to play some golf with mates who are teachers. We looked around the area and played Murvagh for €40 with a 9.55 tee time and then the following day we played Castle Dargan for €35 per man after negotiating with the course.

While Castle Dargan is not in the same league as Lough Erne we got a four ball for the price of one green fee in Lough Erne, They wanted 109 sterling...Are you having a laugh?????

I know id rather a three ball round Murvagh any day before paying Lough Erne green fees. Ive played Castle Hume and while its an average course it cost 20 sterling each.....

People cannot afford £109 for a round of golf these days especially after paying their membership at their own course.. i mean i pay €1375 annually in Laois.

thewobbler

A green fee model I've not seen in only one place so far is reduced rates for GUI members, all year round, on all tee times.

It's been mentioned to me by a few people in the trade that our American cousins simply won't play a course over here unless the green fee is huge. Their simple metric is big green fee = better course. And they haven't crossed the pond to play poor tracks.

So the course in question has, from an outsider looking in, rather smartly decided to market themselves to this audience without killing local trade.

Ford4000

The_Architect wrote: »

If you're at liberty to say, could you give us an approximate cost of construction and grow-in for the course alone (all facilities aside)?


Thanks

To be fair i wouldnt even be able to hazard a guess, heard so many figures bandied about when i was there but seemed to be the total project cost i was hearing, 2 million was mentioned but i do know the whole operation went way over budget !

The_Architect

Ford4000 wrote: »

To be fair i wouldnt even be able to hazard a guess, heard so many figures bandied about when i was there but seemed to be the total project cost i was hearing, 2 million was mentioned but i do know the whole operation went way over budget !

2 million is too little. If the construction was a tricky as you state, I suspect you're looking more in the 6 to 8 million bracket for Lough Erne. Perhaps 2 million over budget.

irish_man

It must be said the course is truly a great one however my biggest qualm is the staffs attitude in the pro shop. It really is a Celtic tiger mentality in there. After my round when asking about membership I was quoted £25,000 joining fee and £1,500 a year annual sub. I felt the person in the shop was either bad at sales, naive or ignorant to say that to join would be a really wise business move as the value of the joining fee will only go up in value. Not only that but to completely hype up the deal, granted you have to make sales, but this was ridiculous. In this day and age post the so called 'good years' and given that Lough Erne are in administration this would nearly be impossible. It would appear that they are living on cloud nine. Both the course and the Faldo academy were both completely empty apart from us, both had an eerie feeling about them. You can even see parts around the grounds that are not as well kept as they used to be, the gardens around hotels houses etc...

On a side note, anyone else think the Rory shrine from the pro shop down to the gents locker room is a little OTT. I'm sure even Rory, who appears very much level headed, cringes when he goes down there, even in your family home you wouldn't get that many smily photos of ones self!

mike12

Heading up that way in September and prices Lough erne and they are still looking of £100 for a round at the weekend, i think Port rush is the same price. Is it any better than Concra Woods? I think there time is limited either change the model or i think they won't be with us this time next year.
Mike

kingshankly

heading up to lough Erne next weekend with the misses rang today to inquire about golf and it's still 100 stg "there is availability on Saturday 8th" no wonder with those prices .

Hacker111

played it twice last weekend (off blues then whites).... fantastic course.. really is... very tough though.. be warned.. there was a good wind and i was hitting driver to some par 3s! really recommend playing it.... hotel complex/restuarant top class as well.... they are continuing to aim for the premium end of the market for sure when you look at costs.....

Brewster

I've booked a round there in early Nov, 45 pounds. Nothing wrong with that.

thewobbler

MyGolfSociety.ie newsletter just out with loads of Lough Erne deals between now and the end of April.

Some of them are even good value.

The tiger has taken it's final roar.

DoctaDee

Scratch Cups on the Bank Holiday weekend in Lough Erne 50 sterling

k.p.h

Sky Sports now showing the Faldo Series from here.

MrTrebus

Hacker111 wrote: »

.. very tough though.. be warned.. there was a good wind and i was hitting driver to some par 3s! .

wow, sign me up straight away so,
that sounds like an enjoyable round ....NOT