big end bearing gone on Citreon C1 how much to fix

noclue1

Hi All the big end bearing is gone (so im told) on my Citreon C1 how much ballpark to fix it or are we talking crazy.

Will bing it to a back street mechanic, so would like to know a jumping off point

lav1

cheaper to buy a new engine and way less hassle.

kona

lav1 wrote: »

cheaper to buy a new engine and way less hassle.

Erm not really, AFAIK just need to drop the oil pan and you can get at them after you remove the ends of the con rods. Bearings are about £30 and the labour is a few hours.
Different story if you have to take the engine out and head off and pull out pistons and rods.

(have you changed a engine, its ALOT of hassle)

Mr Benevolent

How in the name of the holies could a big end bearing be gone on a C1? Was it running without oil for a year?

Fishtits

"How in the name of the holies could a big end bearing be gone on a C1? Was it running without oil for a year?"

+1

Run_to_da_hills

If the big end is gone god knows what else has gone.

Sounds like oil pump failure / oil starvation or incorrect oil being used or mixed.

Nissan doctor

kona wrote: »

Erm not really, AFAIK just need to drop the oil pan and you can get at them after you remove the ends of the con rods. Bearings are about £30 and the labour is a few hours.
Different story if you have to take the engine out and head off and pull out pistons and rods.

(have you changed a engine, its ALOT of hassle)

That will be a very short term repair of an engine with failed big ends.

If big ends have worn and/or spun then there will be wear on the crank and con rods/caps as well as swarf from the worn bearings in the oil system. The only way to effect a permenant reliabe repair is to grind the crank, line hone the con rods/caps and match them with new oversized bearing shells as well as flush the block and head.

So in short, for your average, run of the mill engine, its not viable to repair it properly when a replacment engine can be sourced for much less.



@op, As has been said it would be extremely unlikely for big ends to have failed on such a new car unless it was run very low on oil for a long period.
What is the problem you were having with it?

kona

Nissan doctor wrote: »

That will be a very short term repair of an engine with failed big ends.

If big ends have worn and/or spun then there will be wear on the crank and con rods/caps as well as swarf from the worn bearings in the oil system. The only way to effect a permenant reliabe repair is to grind the crank, line hone the con rods/caps and match them with new oversized bearing shells as well as flush the block and head.

So in short, for your average, run of the mill engine, its not viable to repair it properly when a replacment engine can be sourced for much less.

Is it cost effective to replace the engine with one of unknown condition? Or to replace with a new one?

Depends on the condition of the crank, which can be inspected with the engine in situ. Without wanting to sound like a tit, as I understand theres the right way(as youve outlined) and the way Mr backstreet mechanic will do it, but which is the most common way Big Ends are repaired?

Nissan doctor

kona wrote: »

Is it cost effective to replace the engine with one of unknown condition? Or to replace with a new one?

Depends on the condition of the crank, which can be inspected with the engine in situ. Without wanting to sound like a tit, as I understand theres the right way(as youve outlined) and the way Mr backstreet mechanic will do it, but which is the most common way Big Ends are repaired?

If you are buying it from a reputable place who offer a warranty then there shouldn't be an issue.

No mechanic with an interest in his reputation or pride in his work would just stick a new set of bearings into an engine. Thats like 'repairing' rust by just spraying over it!

When big end bearings fail, they generate extreme heat and the oil clearance is lost, this causes the knocking noise which is assosiated with failed bearings. If there is a knock, the crank is damaged, how badly damaged dictates if it can be ground or needs to be replaced. You also can't check for crank end float and warping/run out with the crank in place.

Leonard Hofstadter

I'd also be interested to know how the hell the big end bearings managed to go in a C1 - the engine is straight out of a Toyota, and is found in the Yaris, Aygo and iQ and barring water pump failure, that engine basically never goes wrong unless it's been seriously neglected.

You can't even use the burning oil excuse either, that particular engine was never affected by the problems that plauged several petrol engined Toyotas as it came after the ZZ engine range, and Toyota never make the same design mistake twice in a range of engines (unlike say BMW, who have made two generations of diesel engine that suffer from swirl flap and turbo failure :rolleyes:).

itarumaa

It is not hard to damage big end bearings. I know a person who did it quite easily.

First she poured one gallon =about 4 litres oil to engine, even she should put maybe 1 litre. Then she continued to drive even with the red oil warning light untill car engine seized. And when the engine was opened (1.4l Golf) big end bearings were completely gone.

So for some people this is an easy task

kona

captainspeed wrote: »

I'd also be interested to know how the hell the big end bearings managed to go in a C1 - the engine is straight out of a Toyota, and is found in the Yaris, Aygo and iQ and barring water pump failure, that engine basically never goes wrong unless it's been seriously neglected.

You can't even use the burning oil excuse either, that particular engine was never affected by the problems that plauged several petrol engined Toyotas as it came after the ZZ engine range, and Toyota never make the same design mistake twice in a range of engines (unlike say BMW, who have made two generations of diesel engine that suffer from swirl flap and turbo failure :rolleyes:).

Ignoring the obvious reasons for the failure. Perhaps there was a problem with manufacturing, tolerances not right, dirt in the oil ways. While those Toyota engines may be reliable, Id still expect some issues due to the sheer amount of them in use. even using a target of 99% theres still 1% of hundreds of thousands of engines that will have issues.

kildaremum

My son bought a car 10 days ago and it transpires that the big end bearing is gone - I am about to go to war with the seller - would he have had any indication that there was trouble or does this just happen out of the blue.

dharn

i thought you were making the dinner (other thread ):)

krissovo

It must be 10 years since I have herd of a big end failure

_Conrad_

kildaremum wrote: »

My son bought a car 10 days ago and it transpires that the big end bearing is gone - I am about to go to war with the seller - would he have had any indication that there was trouble or does this just happen out of the blue.

I just saw that thread and didn't post there because it's gotten ridiculous as these things do, but that was a silvia, presumably the usual version that gets imported here 2 litre turbo model with the SR20DET engine, which is a good engine but since they're relatively powerful japanese car these run the risk of being thrashed and abused, if run low on oil at high rpm and/or through general wear you can easily mess up things such as that in an engine.

Now a car getting a lot of hard driving is fine once it's looked after better than one that doesn't get driven so hard, maintenance needs to be more intensive, but few people, in this country in particular do that.
However sadly all you can really do is chance your arm but it's about 50/50 as to whether it developed a problem and was quickly sold, or was genuinely fine until a few days after it was sold and the problem wasn't known about, in the case of a private sale though you don't really have much realistic hope of a good outcome from "going to war" with the seller.

If the car is being kept he should join a suitable enthusiasts club/forum for the car and seek out a replacement engine/price a rebuild of the engine. (people do rebuild those as they're a sort of valuable engine).
Though if you reckon your son is prone to doing stupid things (in fairness a lot of 18 year olds are) I don't particularly want to meet him on the road in a 200 bhp+ rear wheel drive car. It's not meant as an offence to you or him, but that type of car and an 18 year old are a bad combination.



By the way this is what they're used for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OprNr6BzrUk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqUka4Qj-Es



So is it any surprise the engines get a hammering?



As for the C1 that was the original topic, seems strange for it to have gone, havnt heard of other ones going yet, but it's probably replacement engine time for that too

Zubeneschamali

_Conrad_ wrote: »

it's probably replacement engine time for that too

It probably was replacement time last May, when the thread was started.

kildaremum

Hi Conrad - thanks for reply - to be honest I didnt realise it was this sort of boy racer car - it probably has had the guts driven out of it. I'm not as pissed off as I was yesterday in fact I'm glad its off the road, just sorry I didn't pay more attention when he was getting it. I dont know what he will do with it, maybe get it rebuilt and sell it because it wont be going on the road on my insurance again. Maybe we will look at cutting his losses and selling it as is to some enthusiast who will rebuild it.

kermitpwee

_Conrad_ wrote: »

By the way this is what they're used for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OprNr6BzrUk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqUka4Qj-Es



So is it any surprise the engines get a hammering?

In fairness thats an awful way to stitch a young lad up by showing the videos of drifting:D
On the other hand you may just have saved his life

_Conrad_

kermitpwee wrote: »

In fairness thats an awful way to stitch a young lad up by showing the videos of drifting:D
On the other hand you may just have saved his life

On both counts.... maybe so.


At least it explained to her why you could end up getting one with a knackered engine. Hard to believe though that someone wouldn't have half an idea going by the look of the car.

kermitpwee

_Conrad_ wrote: »

On both counts.... maybe so.


At least it explained to her why you could end up getting one with a knackered engine. Hard to believe though that someone wouldn't have half an idea going by the look of the car.

I know a few lads and when they go to look at the car they panic and buy it, can't fathom it myself but it does happen. Tbh I feel sorry for the young lad he has learned an expensive lesson, I have bought a fair amount of cars in my time and I wouldn't fancy checking out a high performance motor as I feel it might be easier to a buy a lemon as you have so much noise with loud exhausts etc that it may be harder to hear the engine.

_Conrad_

kermitpwee wrote: »

I know a few lads and when they go to look at the car they panic and buy it, can't fathom it myself but it does happen. Tbh I feel sorry for the young lad he has learned an expensive lesson, I have bought a fair amount of cars in my time and I wouldn't fancy checking out a high performance motor as I feel it might be easier to a buy a lemon as you have so much noise with loud exhausts etc that it may be harder to hear the engine.

No sorry i mean the mother in this case, should have made it clearer, as in it would seem quite obvious to most people that a silvia would be a "boy racer"'s type of car. (there are of course more genuine enthusiasts too but it's a sorty/attention grabbing sort of car)


On your point that you made there i have seen that sort of semi mindless blind buying of cars myself and it almost never ends particularly well.
The exhaust things isn't really that much of an issue though

kermitpwee

_Conrad_ wrote: »

No sorry i mean the mother in this case, should have made it clearer, as in it would seem quite obvious to most people that a silvia would be a "boy racer"'s type of car. (there are of course more genuine enthusiasts too but it's a sorty/attention grabbing sort of car)


On your point that you made there i have seen that sort of semi mindless blind buying of cars myself and it almost never ends particularly well.
The exhaust things isn't really that much of an issue though

Just re read your post there I must have been asleep! Ya even my granny knows the boy racer cars. On the exhaust thing I am codding myself sure last week I bought a car with a blowing exhaust and I could tell that the engine was sound. Don't think I'll post anymore today as I'm not thinking straight!

_Conrad_

kermitpwee wrote: »

Just re read your post there I must have been asleep! Ya even my granny knows the boy racer cars. On the exhaust thing I am codding myself sure last week I bought a car with a blowing exhaust and I could tell that the engine was sound. Don't think I'll post anymore today as I'm not thinking straight!

HAHA great better of going away and having a rest for a while so and coming back when your brain has restarted. :pac:

kermitpwee

_Conrad_ wrote: »

HAHA great better of going away and having a rest for a while so and coming back when your brain has restarted. :pac:

I think my big end bearing could be gone:D

kildaremum

Your granny may very well be better at spotting "boy racer" types of car than I. I didnt see this car before it arrived outside the house and I think it looks like an old fashioned heap of sh.t and my younger kids agree (including two younger teens).

kermitpwee

QUOTE=kildaremum;74644145]Your granny may very well be better at spotting "boy racer" types of car than I. I didnt see this car before it arrived outside the house and I think it looks like an old fashioned heap of sh.t and my younger kids agree (including two younger teens).[/QUOTE]

Well does it look like your average saloon or hatchback?

http://www.google.ie/imgres?q=nissan+silvia&hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&rlz=1W1ADFA_en&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=pP6e46NjdHDsDM:&imgrefurl=http://tuningcars.us/displayimage.php%3Fpid%3D2493&docid=kUZWBgUjmxpYeM&w=800&h=600&ei=Tm-DTsndHMGr8APLkPUJ&zoom=1&biw=1024&bih=571&iact=rc&dur=100&page=4&tbnh=163&tbnw=250&start=20&ndsp=6&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:20&tx=126&ty=97

kildaremum

It doesnt look like that car. It doesnt look like your average saloon or hatchback. Its not sleek or "blinged". The more I look at it the worse it looks.

AndrewBond

I bet it would be cheaper to have engine replaced for a second hand one, tey are all the same on C1, Peug 107 and Toyota Aygo (I think 3 cyl Yaris engine is the same as well) so it shouldn't be a problem to supply engine and generally they are reliable (your failure is very unusual).
Big end bearing failure means complete engine rebuild job, its not something you are recommended to do in the backyard, cause you'll have to take engine off, strip it down completely and than put it back together making sure all the parts are back where they were :-). Its pretty common now for manufacturers do not supply any repair size parts (shells, pistons etc.), so grinding the crankshaft might not be an option and you'll have to buy new crankshaft, plus bearing shells, head gasket, seals etc.etc. Trying to save on those is only a shortcut to repeated failure.
Get a new engine and its not too big of a job to swap it, as car is small and engine is light enough to handle.