Recovery time

babalobioddy

Hi everyone.
A question.
I am 38 ,im going to do the cork marathon in a couple of weeks. I have a good bit of milage up (this will be my fourth marathon). I have kept a log of all my milage and since Jan 1 ive done 485 miles. In the last 3 weeks ive done 2 20 mile runs at marathon pace. My legs are feeling very tired, how much recovery time should I leave after long training runs, I have generaly only been leaving a day or 2 at the most before resuming training. I dont want to take too mmany days off as im afraid this will effect my overall fitness. Any opinions ?

menoscemo

It would be useful to do a recovery run the day after a long run.

That would mean about 3-4 miles at about 1.5-2 minutes/mile below your goal marathon time. If you are not even able for this, then you are most definately running your long runs too fast.

A recovery run such as above should actually freshen up your legs up.

shels4ever

babalobioddy wrote: »

Hi everyone.
A question.
I am 38 ,im going to do the cork marathon in a couple of weeks. I have a good bit of milage up (this will be my fourth marathon). I have kept a log of all my milage and since Jan 1 ive done 485 miles. In the last 3 weeks ive done 2 20 mile runs at marathon pace. My legs are feeling very tired, how much recovery time should I leave after long training runs, I have generaly only been leaving a day or 2 at the most before resuming training. I dont want to take too mmany days off as im afraid this will effect my overall fitness. Any opinions ?

20 mile runs at marathon pace will really take it out of you , reduce the intensity of some of your runs maybe an option, if you can do 20 miles at marathon pace now you shouldnt have a problem on the day.

ecoli

babalobioddy wrote: »

Hi everyone.
A question.
I am 38 ,im going to do the cork marathon in a couple of weeks. I have a good bit of milage up (this will be my fourth marathon). I have kept a log of all my milage and since Jan 1 ive done 485 miles. In the last 3 weeks ive done 2 20 mile runs at marathon pace. My legs are feeling very tired, how much recovery time should I leave after long training runs, I have generaly only been leaving a day or 2 at the most before resuming training. I dont want to take too mmany days off as im afraid this will effect my overall fitness. Any opinions ?

Your legs are gonna feel very tired completing 20 miles runs especially at MP. After 18 miles at this pace your body is nearly completely depleted of glycogen so doing this twice in three weeks is a bit overkill. My advice would be take a few days recovery (maybe a day or two off followed by recovery miles (as menoscemo suggested). That and try not to worry about the pace on 20 mile runs these are about time on your feet. You can add mile pace for few miles at the end (15 easy and maybe 5 MP) or something like that but given you have already completed too of these runs i would aim to focus just about time on your feet. As Shels said doing 20 miles at MP you should have no problem on the day just make sure you make it to race day fresh at this stage with a good taper

Krusty_Clown

babalobioddy wrote: »

Hi everyone.
A question.
I am 38 ,im going to do the cork marathon in a couple of weeks. I have a good bit of milage up (this will be my fourth marathon). I have kept a log of all my milage and since Jan 1 ive done 485 miles. In the last 3 weeks ive done 2 20 mile runs at marathon pace. My legs are feeling very tired, how much recovery time should I leave after long training runs, I have generaly only been leaving a day or 2 at the most before resuming training. I dont want to take too mmany days off as im afraid this will effect my overall fitness. Any opinions ?

Are you following a training program? If not, you should consider following one. Don't burn yourself out in the final weeks leading up to the race.

babalobioddy

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

Im not following any definite training plan, I run 5 days a week 2 speed runs a couple of 8-10 mile runs and 1 long run 12-18 miles, increasing my long run to 20 miles about a month before race day. My last marathon was dublin last year, finished in 3.36 hoping to go under 3.30 in cork. I usualy would only taper for 3 or 4 days but mabye a week this time will take the tiredness out of my legs and have me fresh on the day. Its tough to take rest days. Head says go legs say no. Guilt is a fecker!!!!!!!

Rebelrunner

I know what you mean but all plans have a 2 to 3 week taper, so they all can't be wrong... I'm taking a 3 week taper with this week the last hard week, 25%, 50%, 75% reduction in milage and intensity over the next 3 weeks, to refuel stores and have legs fresh for the big day.

Krusty_Clown

babalobioddy wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

Im not following any definite training plan, I run 5 days a week 2 speed runs a couple of 8-10 mile runs and 1 long run 12-18 miles, increasing my long run to 20 miles about a month before race day. My last marathon was dublin last year, finished in 3.36 hoping to go under 3.30 in cork. I usualy would only taper for 3 or 4 days but mabye a week this time will take the tiredness out of my legs and have me fresh on the day. Its tough to take rest days. Head says go legs say no. Guilt is a fecker!!!!!!!

Let me summarize:
1. You're running long runs (20 miles) at PMP
2. You're starting your 20 mile runs four weeks out from your target race
3. If you do taper, it's 3-7 days
4. You have to take two days off after a long run.
It's all a bit messed-up. The best piece of advice I can give you, is find yourself a club or a training program and follow it. Your existing program is not doing you any favours. But on a positive note: following a structured program or getting solid coaching advice will yield really positive results, and you should be able to take chunks off of your existing marathon time.

Why don't you take a look at HalHigdon's Intermediate II program, just for the remaining weeks before your race. You might be suprised by how much better you feel on race day with a suitable taper.

babalobioddy

My problem is that i live in the sticks in Kilkenny. My nearest club is 15 miles away and I dont have a running partner so my training is all done to a schedule in my head which is basicly as much as i can as often as i can. Im beginning to understand now that this approach is not the way to go and i am probably going to end up doing myself some serious damage. I will certianly heed all of your advice. Thanks All.

Krusty_Clown

babalobioddy wrote: »

My problem is that i live in the sticks in Kilkenny. My nearest club is 15 miles away and I dont have a running partner so my training is all done to a schedule in my head which is basicly as much as i can as often as i can. Im beginning to understand now that this approach is not the way to go and i am probably going to end up doing myself some serious damage. I will certianly heed all of your advice. Thanks All.

Hi babalobioddy, that's a familiar story that we all share at some time or other. Don't get disheartened. The fact that you're already knocking out decent marathon times indicates that you're doing something right.

The major advantage of following a formal plan, (like the HalHigdon plan I linked to previously), is that it will give the the structure you need, to avoid injuring yourself (running too quickly too often, increasing your mileage too quickly, not taking enough rest days). It'll offer you a developmental plan, that will allow you to get the most out of your body, by focussing on your cardio system, on your speed-work, stamina and endurance. But it will also give you a taper plan that will see you ready for your best performance, come race day.

Tapering for a marathon is not a 'rest period'. It's an opportunity to allow your body and muscles to recover, so that when you hit mile 21, you won't have that trouble lifting those quad muscles, or pushing off with your calf muscles. It allows you to clear up any potential niggles, so you won't suffer a race-ending problem during the race.

Halhigdon is not the best plan available by a long shot. But it is so much better than not following any plan at all.

ecoli

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Tapering for a marathon is not a 'rest period'. It's an opportunity to allow your body and muscles to recover, so that when you hit mile 21, you won't have that trouble lifting those quad muscles, or pushing off with your calf muscles. It allows you to clear up any potential niggles, so you won't suffer a race-ending problem during the race.

Think of it like a weight session. When a person does weights they exert themselves in order to break the muscles down. Once the muscles are broken down the body is forced to work harder to build them back up to heal the muscles and make them stronger.
Likewise with marathon training you are deplleting your glygogen stores in the muscles on a continual basis and allowing the muscles to build back up stronger (increasing bloodflow to the muscles etc) and able to store more glycogen to prevent attempt to delay you "hitting the wall" in the marathon. By tapering you are allowing the body to take all the hard training you have been doing and get stronger from it. You are also replenishing the glycogen stores in the body and allowing microtears in the muscles to heal. With these factors come race day you will be at you best.
This is why many training plans dont advocate running the full marathon distance before the day. The idea is that with your body recovered you will be able to hit the remaining X miles at MP because your body is stronger than it was during the heavy marathon training

Corkie100

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Why don't you take a look at HalHigdon's Intermediate II program, just for the remaining weeks before your race. You might be suprised by how much better you feel on race day with a suitable taper.

This is the programme I have roughly followed, changed a few runs around to fit shorter races, etc, but followed the lsr's pretty much exactly, and my target would be similar (maybe a bit more conservative) to the OP's.
Op, would a day off before your long run help? Are you going into after a hard session? remember, mileage increase refers to your overall weekly mileage too, not just the long run, so if you're making a big jump up in the long run, maybe you need to reduce one of your sessions in the days before it?? I'm not v experienced, just throwing a few ideas in!
Can highly recommend joining a club, I joined one last year and rarely do my lsr on my own, always an email flying around looking for groups to do various routes, and it really really helps and allows for a bit of experiment in routes, pace, time of day, etc.