Connaught Rangers Mutiny in India

jonniebgood1

Was reading into this slightly unusual episode in the war of independence in a post event summary of indian newspaper:

IN the history of the British armed forces, two mutinies took place. One was the famous naval mutiny, well known as the Mutiny on the Bounty, and the second but lesser known was the mutiny by an Irish regiment in India shortly after World War I in the summer of 1920. This mutiny, which lasted for a month, had its roots in the political struggle of the Irish people.

The rebellion or mutiny by the famous Connaught Rangers, running parallel to the Irish freedom movement under De Valera, was considerably influenced by the Indian struggle for Independence. Nearly a thousand Irish men who rebelled had no real reason for that action except their deep love for their motherland and passionate patriotism. They strongly felt that British colonial rule was perpetrating grave injustice by crushing their countrymen. Hearing of the ugly happenings in Ireland, where the Britishers were hunting down, torturing and executing freedom fighters, the Irish soldiers inwardly simmered.

The British ensured that the newspapers in India did not cover Irish incidents, but news of the cruel and inhuman measures taken by Britishers against the Irish occasionally filtered into the barracks of the Connaught Rangers in Jalandhar cantonment where they were stationed. During that turbulent period of Irish history, many pitched battles were being fought between the Irish Republic Army — the Sinn Fein — and the British security force — Black and Tans. The news of these battles reached Irish soldiers, thousands of miles away in India where a similar wind was blowing.

The fuse blew when one of the Rangers got the shocking news that his brother in Ireland was hanged by the Crown for giving shelter to rebels. He went berserk and beat up an English officer. This set off a chain reaction. The soldiers captured the armoury, took English officers as hostages, declared Jalandhar cantonment as the seat of the ‘free Irish Government-in-exile’ in hardly two days. Caught unawares, the British Government in India was shaken to the core.

The Irish soldiers in India were not fighting for a piece of territory, but for a fundamental principle. Therefore, when they felt confident that they were the masters of Jalandhar cantonment, they started negotiations for the freedom of Ireland in lieu of returning the hostages, releasing the armoury and returning the territory of the cantonment. How could the British pay heed to such nonsense? To them it was tantamount to an act of mutiny, but to the Irish soldiers it was a "protest" against the Crown’s cruelty and breach of the repeated promise of giving Ireland its freedom.

In the barracks, a lot of argument and heated discussion went on to decide the next course of action. One of the major groups was for capturing more territory and strengthening their positions so that the British could be taught a lesson and the world would know of their plight and Ireland’s struggle for freedom. Some level-headed men, however, argued that as violence would be self-defeating, the only way to tackle the British would be through negotiations. The most vocal of this group was one Jim Daley.

He pointed out to his enraged comrades that as long as they did not take to arms, it would not amount to a mutiny, but would be a "sit-down protest" to express their concern for the motherland. Eventually, they wrote a long petition to the King and ceremoniously handed it over to British officers. But no reply ever came. The King obviously never received it!

The British authorities and the top military brass, though caught unawares, reacted fast. They quickly moved eight White regiments from Amritsar, Ambala, Lahore and Simla cantonments and surrounded the Jalandhar cantonment with a tight ring of tanks, guns and infantry. Having cordoned the Irish, they cut off the supplies of food and provisions and finally switched off the water mains also. From a position of strength, the British now asked for a peaceful surrender by the ‘mutineers’. The Irish however, had enough provisions and water from one or two wells inside their ‘territory’ to withstand the siege. Thus, for a while, it was checkmate. In the meantime, all the Indian regiments were moved away from Jalandhar. A tight censorship was clamped with the excuse that some secret war exercise was being conducted in the area. Thus, neither the Indians nor the outside world knew of the high-tension drama taking place in the heart of India.

Having taken all security precautions and after tightening their grip, the British sent a deputation to demand an unconditional surrender. The team was flabbergasted by what they saw when they reached near the regimental barracks. The scenario that greeted them was one of total abandon and gaiety. The Irish tricolour flew majestically not only on the tall flag mast of the regimental quarter guard but atop every single barrack. Most of the Irish soldiers were singing patriotic ballads in the barracks while some danced to Irish jigs instead of listening to the British delegation.

This act of defiance and rowdy behaviour angered the British but they felt that attacking the Irish would be politically suicidal. What would the world say to white men killing white men on Indian soil where the situation was already explosive! It would not only tarnish the British image all over the world but also ignite innumerable political fuses. Thus, having an upper hand, they preferred to wait.

.............................................

In August, 1920, court martial proceeding against 800 men began. The proceedings were conducted at the army headquarters at Simla. Day after day, sentences were passed. Hundreds were to be shot, many sentenced to life imprisonment and the remaining awarded 10 to 20 years of hard labour in lock-ups.

Back home in Ireland, the struggle for independence was gathering momentum. The British knew that they would not be able to hold down the valiant Irish for long. The Viceroy and the Commander-in-Chief of India deliberated on the situation, and took a political decision. This decision was considerably influenced by the situation prevailing in India which was not the least comfortable. All those who were to be shot were pardoned. Sentences of imprisonment were reviewed and remitted. The famous Connaught Rangers were disbanded and their colours shipped back to the King in England where they still hang at Windsor Castle. However, there had to be a show of military discipline and justice. Any defiance by a soldier amounted to an act of mutiny and this had to be firmly established for the dignity and honour of military tradition. To achieve this, somebody had made a scapegoat — symbolic of fair but firm treatment.

The one so chosen was Jim Daley. He was led blindfolded to be shot by a firing squad in one corner of Jalandhar cantonment in November, 1920. Under security cover, the body of Daley was buried in an inconspicuous place, without a cross, and then forgotten. He, who should have been awarded a Nobel Prize for peace, was instead awarded bullets. The other soldiers were packed off to England to serve their respective sentences.

Later, in the fifties, Jim Daley’s mortal remains were dug out on the request of the Irish Government and interned in a churchyard of Simla. They were finally sent to Ireland a decade later, to be buried with honour in the bossom of his motherland.

It seems a heroic stand particularly given that they were serving the crown at the time and were turned to this. It is a slightly obscure event but maybe someone knows of it recorded somewhere.
Does anyone know any more about this event?
Who were these men and who was Jim Daley- did any of them return to any prominence in Ireland either during the war of independence, civil war or later?

johnny_doyle

Daly was buried in a CWGC grave after execution and not as outlined in the article

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1498907

John Miranda, a Liverpool lad with an Irish mother, is the only one of the mutineers still buried in India. He died of dysentry whilst in jail with Daly.

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1481689

A number of the mutineers were English.

One mutiny that doesn't get much of an airing is the Singapore mutiny by Indian troops in 1915. Mass execution by firing squad.

jonniebgood1

johnny_doyle wrote: »

Daly was buried in a CWGC grave after execution and not as outlined in the article

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1498907

John Miranda, a Liverpool lad with an Irish mother, is the only one of the mutineers still buried in India. He died of dysentry whilst in jail with Daly.

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1481689

A number of the mutineers were English.

One mutiny that doesn't get much of an airing is the Singapore mutiny by Indian troops in 1915. Mass execution by firing squad.

What happened in Singapore? The article I used didnt mention that.

What was the story with the english mutineers? had they Irish roots or was there some other factors that the rangers were also protesting against?

R.Dub.Fusilier

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

What was the story with the english mutineers? had they Irish roots or was there some other factors that the rangers were also protesting against?

one of the English soldiers who took part in the protest was asked why he sided with the rebels and his reply was that he fought with Connaught Rangers for Britain now he was going to fight for Ireland with them.

"The fuse blew when one of the Rangers got the shocking news that his brother in Ireland was hanged by the Crown for giving shelter to rebels. He went berserk and beat up an English officer."

i never heard this before.

The Mutiny of the Connaught Rangers in India is one of the lost stories of Irish independence and Irish history on a whole. James Dalys name should be held up and remembered in the same way that Kevin Barrys and all of those who gave their lives for our independence.

good post jonniebgood1 and i look forward to the posts.

R.Dub.Fusilier

here is the grave of JJ Daly.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=daly&GSfn=james&GSbyrel=all&GSdy=1920&GSdyrel=in&GSob=n&GRid=49231754&df=all&

johnny_doyle

here's a synopsis from Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1915_Singapore_Mutiny


Anther Mutiny that's not much mentioned is the Nenagh Mutiny 1856 by North Tipp militia

http://homepage.eircom.net/~jbhall/1856_tipperary_mutiny.htm

Mutiny for the Cause is a small book worth reading re the Connaught Rangers mutiny.

The Scientician

Here's the memorial in Glasnevin.

FeckinUsername

One of those involved was a man named Joe Hawes. He is buried in one of our local cemeteries in Kilrush, Co. Clare. He is still remembered down home.

R.Dub.Fusilier

FeckinUsername wrote: »

One of those involved was a man named Joe Hawes. He is buried in one of our local cemeteries in Kilrush, Co. Clare. He is still remembered down home.

Joe Hawes grandson , Oliver Hawes , went to India a few years ago to follow in his grandfathers footsteps. apparently Joe Hawes account of the Mutiny had been discredited by historians and he wanted to prove his grandfather was telling the truth.

after Joe Hawes was released from prison he joined the Irish Army. he also started a barber shop but in the early days of it he was so destitute and desperate to feed his family he stole shoes from a local shop , was caught and spent three months in prison.

jonniebgood1

johnny_doyle wrote: »

here's a synopsis from Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1915_Singapore_Mutiny


Anther Mutiny that's not much mentioned is the Nenagh Mutiny 1856 by North Tipp militia

http://homepage.eircom.net/~jbhall/1856_tipperary_mutiny.htm

Mutiny for the Cause is a small book worth reading re the Connaught Rangers mutiny.

Good info- I should have included a request for info on all similar mutiny in OP, It might be a simple question but the punishment transportation for life as in:

Private Thomas Cauley: Charged with taking part in the mutiny and with having fired at troops of the line. Verdict: Guilty. To be transported for life.

Did this mean being shipped off to Australia?

Dazzler88

My Great Grandfather, Charles Kerrigan from Glencar,Co.Leitirm was one of the fourteen mutineers. We have a few newspaper articles about the events, the following is a brief synopsis of the events:

The Connaught Rangers were recruited in 1918 and were trained at Renmore Barrricks,Galway.They were the last battalion sent from Ireland to India.

They were first stationed at Gullundur but were later sent up the hills to Solan.As the War progressed very little information filtered through from home about the situation in Ireland,the war with the Tans. On a leave of absence to Co.Clare,Private Hawes witnessed the brutality of the Black and Tans towards the Irish people.

On his return to Solan,Hawes told the brutal stories to his comrades. Thoughts of home grew deep among the young men.On the 28th of June,1920,these men decided they would fight no more for the British. Later that evening two young soldiers went into the town of Solan and bought 3 pieces of linen. They bought the colours Green, White and Gold and an Irish flag. They hoisted it above their H.Q. compound. Next morning their commanding officer demanded them to take it down, they refused stating with determination: 'No more we fight for Britain, we fight for Ireland'. This was the start of the mutiny.

Now that the Connaught Rangers had made their stand they were determined to defend themselves. So they broke into the arms hut and acquired guns and ammunition. But in doing this they were resisted by soldiers on guard, who fired at them injuring two mutineers, Private Patrick Smith and Peter Seers. Unfortunately, due to the lack of manpower and guns, the mutineers were forced to surrender.

They were taken to Lacknow were they were detained until September. They were then moved to Dagshai for sentencing. James Daly from Tyrell's Pass was the leader of the group.Daly along with the thirteen mutineers was sentenced to death. For the next 6 weeks the men faced their own mortality.

After the 6 weeks had passed they were all sentenced to life in prison except that of James Daly,they would make an example of him. Daly was taken into the main yard of the compound, and while the others watched, the British fired a volley of shots, executing Daly.

Six months later all the Connaught Rangers were brought back to England. Some sent to Portland Prison and more to the Maidstone. They remained here in harsh confinement until 1923 when an agreement was reached for their release.

Charlie Kerrigan was the last surviving member of the Connaught Rangers and he died on the 10th August 1991,he is buried in Kilenora graveyard,Glencar,Co.Leitrim.

johnny_doyle

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Good info- I should have included a request for info on all similar mutiny in OP, It might be a simple question but the punishment transportation for life as in:

Did this mean being shipped off to Australia?

the article missed the Indian Mutiny too but if the origin was an Indian newspaper I don't believe that they refer to the events as a mutiny.

Yes, Australia was the destination.

jonniebgood1

Dazzler88 wrote: »

My Great Grandfather, Charles Kerrigan from Glencar,Co.Leitirm was one of the fourteen mutineers. We have a few newspaper articles about the events, the following is a brief synopsis of the events:

The Connaught Rangers were recruited in 1918 and were trained at Renmore Barrricks,Galway.They were the last battalion sent from Ireland to India.

They were first stationed at Gullundur but were later sent up the hills to Solan.As the War progressed very little information filtered through from home about the situation in Ireland,the war with the Tans. On a leave of absence to Co.Clare,Private Hawes witnessed the brutality of the Black and Tans towards the Irish people.

On his return to Solan,Hawes told the brutal stories to his comrades. Thoughts of home grew deep among the young men.On the 28th of June,1920,these men decided they would fight no more for the British. Later that evening two young soldiers went into the town of Solan and bought 3 pieces of linen. They bought the colours Green, White and Gold and an Irish flag. They hoisted it above their H.Q. compound. Next morning their commanding officer demanded them to take it down, they refused stating with determination: 'No more we fight for Britain, we fight for Ireland'. This was the start of the mutiny.

Now that the Connaught Rangers had made their stand they were determined to defend themselves. So they broke into the arms hut and acquired guns and ammunition. But in doing this they were resisted by soldiers on guard, who fired at them injuring two mutineers, Private Patrick Smith and Peter Seers. Unfortunately, due to the lack of manpower and guns, the mutineers were forced to surrender.

They were taken to Lacknow were they were detained until September. They were then moved to Dagshai for sentencing. James Daly from Tyrell's Pass was the leader of the group.Daly along with the thirteen mutineers was sentenced to death. For the next 6 weeks the men faced their own mortality.

After the 6 weeks had passed they were all sentenced to life in prison except that of James Daly,they would make an example of him. Daly was taken into the main yard of the compound, and while the others watched, the British fired a volley of shots, executing Daly.

Six months later all the Connaught Rangers were brought back to England. Some sent to Portland Prison and more to the Maidstone. They remained here in harsh confinement until 1923 when an agreement was reached for their release.

Charlie Kerrigan was the last surviving member of the Connaught Rangers and he died on the 10th August 1991,he is buried in Kilenora graveyard,Glencar,Co.Leitrim.

That is really fantastic information- Thanks.
I hope you don't mind me asking did your grandfather tell you this information himself? Was he bitter about the affair or how did he feel about his treatment?

PatsytheNazi

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

That is really fantastic information- Thanks.
I hope you don't mind me asking did your grandfather tell you this information himself? Was he bitter about the affair or how did he feel about his treatment?

I read an interview with Charlie Kerrigan quite a while ago and what I most remember about it was that when they arrived back in Ireland their was no reception or fanfare for the Connaught Rangers, it wasn't until quite a while later their bravery became recognised. The country may well have been bracing itself for the Civil War or whatever. From what I roughly remember Charlie Kerigan just got the train in Dublin down to Sligo and made his way out to Glencar to the warm welcome of his family and neighbours. Though doubtless the surviving Connaught Rangers would have probably shrugged their shoulders and probably said they hadn't done it for medals or glory but of outrage and concern for the people of Ireland back home.

Dazzler88

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

That is really fantastic information- Thanks.
I hope you don't mind me asking did your grandfather tell you this information himself? Was he bitter about the affair or how did he feel about his treatment?

It was actually my Great Grandfather so unforunately,I only met him once when I was a child but I have two interviews he done on CD,in the interviews he didnt seem bitter at all,his way of looking at it was they done what anyone in their postion would have done and doesnt see why they should be punished for fighting for the good of their own people.

It always makes me smile when I think of the scene,of an Irish tri-colour blowing in the wind in the middle of a British war camp,thousands of miles from Irish soil.I think it has to be said we gave the British more hassel than any other nation and stories like the Indian Muntiny just prove how brave our ancestors were.

Dazzler88

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

I read an interview with Charlie Kerrigan quite a while ago and what I most remember about it was that when they arrived back in Ireland their was no reception or fanfare for the Connaught Rangers, it wasn't until quite a while later their bravery became recognised. The country may well have been bracing itself for the Civil War or whatever. From what I roughly remember Charlie Kerigan just got the train in Dublin down to Sligo and made his way out to Glencar to the warm welcome of his family and neighbours. Though doubtless the surviving Connaught Rangers would have probably shrugged their shoulders and probably said they hadn't done it for medals or glory but of outrage and concern for the people of Ireland back home.

This information is correct.Charlie got the train to Sligo and headed walking across the mountain to Glencar,there wasnt even any welcome home party for him in Glencar.He always said it wasnt until the late 70's that people started calling to the house to ask him about his time in India.To our family he was a bit of a celebrity but to everyone else it was just another old man who had an old war story to tell.Up until the late 90's,his son still had his medals but over the last few decades they became lost,I regret this happening as they are of great importance.Also the Connaught Rangers musemn in Boyle,Co.Roscommon barely opens anymore due to lack of government funding,as time goes on these bravemen will be forgotten.

johnny_doyle

one "memorial" to consider for the Connaught "mutineers" was that the tri-colour they flew partly influenced the decision re the modern Indian flag (as did the whole Irish independence movement of the period).

A film of the mutiny is long overdue.

Dazzler88

definetly agree,long overdue.

Dazzler88

Just found this photo of the Mutineers from India 1920.Can anyone name any of them men in the photo?Unfortunately,they only have 2 people named.

nuac

Gene Kerrigan has written a book on the history of the Connaught Rangers which covers their "mutiny" in India.

There were of course many other mutinies in both the Royal Navy and Army.

The 1857 Sepoy Mutiny ( Rebellion to Indan Nationalists ) was the major one.

the interesting thing about the British time in India is why such a small amount of British troops, and their Indian Civil Service could control such a large subcontinent.

As in Ireland, they left in a hurry,leaving divisions which lead to further trouble

Jawgap

There is a book that covers the mutiny - The Devil to Pay.....

.....it's ok as an account, but the author (Babington) seems to have it in for them (the mutineers) and the lack of objectivity spoils it.

I found the book when I was researching my great grandfather who served with 2nd Bn at 1st Mons where he was wounded.

We knew he had been in the Rangers and wondered if he'd been involved in the mutiny, but he was eventually invalided out of the army in 1916.

gobnaitolunacy

johnny_doyle wrote: »

one "memorial" to consider for the Connaught "mutineers" was that the tri-colour they flew partly influenced the decision re the modern Indian flag (as did the whole Irish independence movement of the period).

There is a tenuous link between the flags, that the colours are identical or near identical is coincidence, orange/saffron being associated with Hinduism, the colour green with Islam, and white signifying peace. An updated meaning (possibly downplaying the religious aspect and associated conflicts) has interpreted the saffron as representing courage and sacrifice; the white representing purity and truth; and the green standing for faith, fertility and chivalry.

An earlier (1906) proposal for an Indian flag has a more direct Irish link, the designer being a Co Tyrone born woman Margaret Elizabeth Noble or as she was known in India, Sister Nivedita. The proposal was not taken up by the Indian nationalist movement though.

Seanchai

From the linked wikipedia Singapore mutiny page:

More than 200 sepoys were tried by court-martial, and 47 were executed

From the article on the Connacht mutiny:

In August, 1920, court martial proceeding against 800 men began. The proceedings were conducted at the army headquarters at Simla. Day after day, sentences were passed. Hundreds were to be shot, many sentenced to life imprisonment and the remaining awarded 10 to 20 years of hard labour in lock-ups.... Any defiance by a soldier amounted to an act of mutiny and this had to be firmly established for the dignity and honour of military tradition. To achieve this, somebody had made a scapegoat — symbolic of fair but firm treatment.

The one so chosen was Jim Daley.

Thank God we're white, it seems.

Citycap

Dazzler88 wrote: »

This information is correct.Charlie got the train to Sligo and headed walking across the mountain to Glencar,there wasnt even any welcome home party for him in Glencar.He always said it wasnt until the late 70's that people started calling to the house to ask him about his time in India.To our family he was a bit of a celebrity but to everyone else it was just another old man who had an old war story to tell.Up until the late 90's,his son still had his medals but over the last few decades they became lost,I regret this happening as they are of great importance.Also the Connaught Rangers musemn in Boyle,Co.Roscommon barely opens anymore due to lack of government funding,as time goes on these bravemen will be forgotten.

In the absence of government funding surely the local people could organise a voluntary committee to run the museum and have defined opening hours. Boyle and the general North Roscommon area have a number historical attractions e.g Boyle Abbey, Strokestown House, Arigna Mines etc. which could be promoted. There are many people who enjoy historical outings while on holidays. The Connaught Rangers should be commemorated not only for the mutiny but also because of their involvement in WW1 and other campaigns.
Am I correct in saying that there is a Connaught Rangers museum in Renmore Barracks Galway?

Fratton Fred

nuac wrote: »

Gene Kerrigan has written a book on the history of the Connaught Rangers which covers their "mutiny" in India.

There were of course many other mutinies in both the Royal Navy and Army.

The 1857 Sepoy Mutiny ( Rebellion to Indan Nationalists ) was the major one.

the interesting thing about the British time in India is why such a small amount of British troops, and their Indian Civil Service could control such a large subcontinent.

As in Ireland, they left in a hurry,leaving divisions which lead to further trouble

The mutinies at Spithead and Nore are probably the best well known navy ones (HMS Bounty aside) and Etaple in 1917 the most recent by the British British army.

nuac

Seanchai wrote: »

From the linked wikipedia Singapore mutiny page:



From the article on the Connacht mutiny:



Thank God we're white, it seems.

I dont know anything about the Signapore mutiny but I think reasons for dealing comparatively leniently with the Rangers were

1. Their great record in the BA, especially in the Peninsular war under Wellington

2. The fact that many of the British senior officers stationed at the Curragh n 1914 threatened mutiny if ask to go to Ulster following Home Rule legislation.

Even then the execution of Daly was an over-reaction

kabakuyu

Citycap wrote: »

In the absence of government funding surely the local people could organise a voluntary committee to run the museum and have defined opening hours. Boyle and the general North Roscommon area have a number historical attractions e.g Boyle Abbey, Strokestown House, Arigna Mines etc. which could be promoted. There are many people who enjoy historical outings while on holidays. The Connaught Rangers should be commemorated not only for the mutiny but also because of their involvement in WW1 and other campaigns.
Am I correct in saying that there is a Connaught Rangers museum in Renmore Barracks Galway?

There is a nice museum in Renmore http://renmorehistory.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=77:history-of-renmore-barracks&catid=40:info

AhrSkidar

Glad I found this thread. My grandfather, Tom Tierney, from Bohermore in Galway was one of the mutineers. He died when I was only one, so I never knew him.

He did feature in the book "The Connaught Rangers" by T.P. Kilfeather. I have the relevant passages here, so I hope it's okay to quote them.

---

Those who continued with the mutiny had a number of hours to reflect upon the seriousness of what they had done and what they now proposed to do. Perhaps most of them were thinking the same thoughts as Private Thomas Tierney, from Galway city. He had taken an oath of allegiance to King George V when he was scarcely eighteen years of age, urged on by appeals from posters, which were plastered on every blank wall in Galway. Those posters told of German atrocities in France and in Belgium. In the uniform of the king, he had served in the Inniskilling Fusiliers and the Connaught Rangers. Now the Black-and-Tans were doing in Ireland what the Germans were said to have done elsewhere. How, then, should a man regard an oath of loyalty to a king who permitted these things to happen? Private Tierney solved that problem with the answer: “I owe no further allegiance.”

At ten o’clock Colonel Deacon left his quarters and strode across the barracks, accompanied by all the officers of the battalion. “Men of the Rangers,” he barked, “I am about to order you to fall in. I do so in the name of the king. If you do not obey you will be dealt with by the full rigour of military law. All of you know what that means.”

Only two men refused to parade with the main body – Private Tierney, of Galway, and Lance-Corporal Willis, of Mullingar. His company quartermaster-sergeant approached Tierney and shouted, “fall in with your company.” The private replied: “Give the men in the cells the same option you have given me. If they are guilty of mutiny, I’m guilty too.”

Tierney was marched over to the cells in company with Willis. As they neared the other prisoners they were greeted with a wild Irish cheer.

Citycap

kabakuyu wrote: »

There is a nice museum in Renmore http://renmorehistory.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=77:history-of-renmore-barracks&catid=40:info[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that.

For those interested in military history there is also a museum at the Curragh Camp and as Cathal Brugha Barracks Dublin (This one is not very extensive but still interesting)

Opening hours etc on Defence Force website

barleyfield

Dazzler88 man sitted far left on ground is named as James Joseph Devers 32328 on Irishmedals Org site (Im new, cant post link!) . "Born in Ballina County Mayo. Described on the charge sheet as wearing a Sinn Fein Badge during the mutiny."

johnny_doyle

the page barleyfield refers to is on the site run by Brendan Lee

http://www.irishmedals.org/connaught-rangers-mutiny.html

Phil_Lives

RTE archive recording from 1970 including interviews with some of those involved.
http://rg.to/file/147df7b191859cda819311c4e0de83ca/RTE_Archive_recording.mp3.html

Dagshai

Dazzler88 wrote: »

It was actually my Great Grandfather so unforunately,I only met him once when I was a child but I have two interviews he done on CD,in the interviews he didnt seem bitter at all,his way of looking at it was they done what anyone in their postion would have done and doesnt see why they should be punished for fighting for the good of their own people.

It always makes me smile when I think of the scene,of an Irish tri-colour blowing in the wind in the middle of a British war camp,thousands of miles from Irish soil.I think it has to be said we gave the British more hassel than any other nation and stories like the Indian Muntiny just prove how brave our ancestors were.

My great grandfather too was one of the mutineers, Patrick Willis of Mullingar. It appears that he never spoke much of it and died and youngish man. I would be interested to know if he was mentioned in the interviews that your great grandfather gave. Many thanks!

Dazzler88

Dagshai wrote: »

My great grandfather too was one of the mutineers, Patrick Willis of Mullingar. It appears that he never spoke much of it and died and youngish man. I would be interested to know if he was mentioned in the interviews that your great grandfather gave. Many thanks!

No sorry no mention of him in any of the interviews. My Great Grandfather talked about James Daly and Smyth who was killed but didn't really mention any others.

Dagshai

Dazzler88 wrote: »

No sorry no mention of him in any of the interviews. My Great Grandfather talked about James Daly and Smyth who was killed but didn't really mention any others.

Thank you

Snickers Man

nuac wrote: »

the interesting thing about the British time in India is why such a small amount of British troops, and their Indian Civil Service could control such a large subcontinent.

Same way any colonial power subdues a country it wants to govern: get the natives to do it. Divide and rule. There are usually plenty of existing differences, divisions and animosities in any country. Find out what they are and exacerbate them. Recruit heavily from one faction and use them to keep the other in line.

The British always did that very effectively. As indeed did the French. And the Germans.

Look how the Americans are running Iraq from afar: getting the Kurds to do it.
It's not going too well at the moment but you can see the intent.

tac foley

johnny_doyle wrote: »

Daly was buried in a CWGC grave after execution and not as outlined in the article

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1498907

The hypocrisy is breathtaking.

tac

ChicagoJoe

Snickers Man wrote: »

Same way any colonial power subdues a country it wants to govern: get the natives to do it. Divide and rule. There are usually plenty of existing differences, divisions and animosities in any country. Find out what they are and exacerbate them. Recruit heavily from one faction and use them to keep the other in line.

The British always did that very effectively. As indeed did the French. And the Germans.

Look how the Americans are running Iraq from afar: getting the Kurds to do it.
It's not going too well at the moment but you can see the intent.

Hitler actually was a big admirer of the British empire and copied aspects of it with the divide and rule tatics, concentration camps and so on. One of his favourite movies was “The Lives of a Bengal Lancer “ which he never ceased to be amazed at how as you say, with a small army and administration the Brits could control all of India. Fact.


( don’t anyone bother with the Godwin’s Law :rolleyes: )

tac foley

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

concentration camps and so on.

I know that a lot of posters here have less than a good word to say about the British and their odd little ways, but making a comparison between 'a temporary accommodation camp that concentrated people and resources into one location', and the likes of Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Birkenau and so on, is a step too far.

The end result of the Second Anglo-Boer war was not the total genocide of the Dutch and Huguenot population of South Africa, no matter how you put it.

tac

kabakuyu

tac foley wrote: »

The hypocrisy is breathtaking.

tac

Some of those who were shot at dawn were also interred in CWGC graves.

FTA69

It's worth mentioning that Daly was only 21 when he was executed, for such a young age he was a man of extraordinary bravery and resilience.

Dagshai

FTA69 wrote: »

It's worth mentioning that Daly was only 21 when he was executed, for such a young age he was a man of extraordinary bravery and resilience.

From reading witness statements and listening to the radio program posted previously, indeed he was and a personal hero to many but specifically, in my opinion, to Joseph Hawes.

Connell research

My Great Uncle, Simon Connell was also a mutineer at Jullunder, he was serving under his brothers name James Connell as he was too young when he first joined the army and his mother got him out. I have found that the ex mutineers were treated pretty badly by the Free State, even though they had all the information, ex mutineers had to provide British army discharge papers etc to get a pension. I hope there is some memorial remembrance service with the descendants/relatives in 5 years time! I have read Joseph Hawes account of the mutiny and feel it is as good a record as you will get. I am trying to trace what happened to Gt Uncle Simon as the family know nothing and he seems to disappear after 1937.
Paul.

Dagshai

Connell research wrote: »

My Great Uncle, Simon Connell was also a mutineer at Jullunder, he was serving under his brothers name James Connell as he was too young when he first joined the army and his mother got him out. I have found that the ex mutineers were treated pretty badly by the Free State, even though they had all the information, ex mutineers had to provide British army discharge papers etc to get a pension. I hope there is some memorial remembrance service with the descendants/relatives in 5 years time! I have read Joseph Hawes account of the mutiny and feel it is as good a record as you will get. I am trying to trace what happened to Gt Uncle Simon as the family know nothing and he seems to disappear after 1937.
Paul.

I presume then that you have seen this...

Dagshai

Connell research wrote: »

My Great Uncle, Simon Connell was also a mutineer at Jullunder, he was serving under his brothers name James Connell as he was too young when he first joined the army and his mother got him out. I have found that the ex mutineers were treated pretty badly by the Free State, even though they had all the information, ex mutineers had to provide British army discharge papers etc to get a pension. I hope there is some memorial remembrance service with the descendants/relatives in 5 years time! I have read Joseph Hawes account of the mutiny and feel it is as good a record as you will get. I am trying to trace what happened to Gt Uncle Simon as the family know nothing and he seems to disappear after 1937.
Paul.

I presume then that you have seen the records in the military service pensions collection?

Connell research

Yes thanks, I have his own application and he is also mentioned in documents concerning all the men, he joined the Free State Army after his release from prison for several years, so I also managed to get his Irish service record, I have over 100 pages of info on a man we knew hardly anything about. I have a search going on now to try and find when he died.

barleyfield

Did he continue using James`name or revert back to Simon? Perhaps went to America?

Connell research

He always used the name Simon after that, I think it caused him that much hassle explaining why he signed up under his brothers name when claiming his pension, he wouldn't do it again! On the last pension records he was living in Manchester, I have also found that another ex ranger was living there and wondered if they were near each other. He was using a Manchester based solicitor to help him with the pension claim, however when the pension department tried to contact him in 1940 the solicitor stated he had left the district. After reading all his pension application details think he just thought, "stuff it, this is more hassle than its worth" and just disappeared into obscurity. I did try looking on emigration records with no luck, he was married to a Mary Flynn in 1924, but I cant find any children. The only good thing is the name Simon Connell is very uncommon, which does help.
I do think these brave men need some sort of remembrance service when its the hundredth anniversary of the mutiny. I'm sure I will have found him by then!!

barleyfield

found a Simon Connell marriage in Finglas or St. Margaret, Dublin - 1st November, 1894. His father James Connell and mother Bigid Flood. Spouse is Margt Emmett. Spouse father is Peter Emmett, spouse mother is Jane Neille. Presume this is your Simon`s father`s marriage - but its bringing you back not forward!

Connell research

Yes that's the one barleyfield, my Grandfather was Simon's older brother James, he died in 1923, he was in the Free State Air Corps.

glencar 22

hi there just a few lines about one of the rangers mutiny in india charles kerrigan who i should know well, when he got out of maidstone jail and made his way home to sligo ,, he then had the long walk to glencar leitrim about 9 miles ,, when he got near his home it was about 11 pm
and as he was walking up the rd he overtook a man on the rd, it was pitch dark and they said goodnight, when he realised it was his father who said to him is it thomas, who was another son
and charles brother, who was shot dead in the first world war in france,, his dad was coming from a rambling house as they did in those days, so the two of them went home and there was no party or anything like that maybe a mug of tea and a cut of bread ,,charles did not have a penny in his pocket, later one of his neighbors arranged to have a dance in his honor and they collected about £10 for charles..so there you are things were hard in ireland at that time