Willow and Miscanthus - opinions please?

boatbuilder

Hi,
I have 11 acres of land that I have been renting out up to now. However, I'd like to take a bit more ownership of it and do something constructive with it.
Unfortunately I have no farming machinery at all.

The land is good land...usually hay or silage made each summer on it and just grazed with cattle the rest of the time...it had sheep on it for years as well.


What are people's opinions on growing willow or miscanthus for biofuel?
Are there any risks? Farrelly willow predict a yearly net profit of €214 per acre (€214 x11 acres = €2354). I'm getting €850 for renting it at the moment.
Seems like a bit of a no-brainer, but also sounds a bit too good to be true.
Is there a catch?

reilig

There's no catch really.

But it is dependent on where your farm is located???

Are you close to contractors with willow planting and harvesting equipment??

Also - 11 acres might be a very small plot for a contractor to plant or harvest.

There is quite a large investment required in order to get the willow established and it can be a couple of years before you would get a saleable harvest - but after that its plain sailing.
I'm not able to tell you if there are any establishment grants available but perhaps someone more informed could??

boatbuilder wrote: »

Hi,
I have 11 acres of land that I have been renting out up to now. However, I'd like to take a bit more ownership of it and do something constructive with it.
Unfortunately I have no farming machinery at all.

The land is good land...usually hay or silage made each summer on it and just grazed with cattle the rest of the time...it had sheep on it for years as well.


What are people's opinions on growing willow or miscanthus for biofuel?
Are there any risks? Farrelly willow predict a yearly net profit of €214 per acre (€214 x11 acres = €2354). I'm getting €850 for renting it at the moment.
Seems like a bit of a no-brainer, but also sounds a bit too good to be true.
Is there a catch?

niallf

Boatbuilder,

There is a catch. The catch is that it costs in the region of €3.5K per acre to get it established and you wont have a crop for two years i think.

However there are grants available to offset half the cost of establishing the crop.

So if you have (3.5K x 11)/2 = 19K handy it could be a good investment IF there is a market for it in the future, which there should be.

Hope this helps,

Niall

may2001

I planted in 2007 and had my first harvest this year. Costs exceeded income. No profit this year. Hopefully it will improve.

rliston

may2001 wrote: »

I planted in 2007 and had my first harvest this year. Costs exceeded income. No profit this year. Hopefully it will improve.

Is it not two years to the first harvest?

blue5000

Farrelly's have progressed well with willow, it is expensive to plant and it takes a few yrs to get your money back. 50% grant is still there for establishing willow and miscanthus. Willow will only have a crop every three years or perhaps two, depends on quality of your land, weather etc.

With miscanthus you get a crop every year after year 2. It is much drier at harvesting (75%dm) than willow(50% dm) at harvesting. Farrellys will tell you that there are big problems with burning miscanthus in power stations because of HCl, not proven yet.

Talk to Joe Hogan in Adare if you want to know more about planting miscanthus. http://jhmcrops.ie/index.html Hope this helps.

may2001

rliston wrote: »

Is it not two years to the first harvest?

Normally it is 3 years between harvests and you would normally expect the first harvest at year 3. I had enormous problems with thistles in the first year and 5 aces had to be re-planted the following year as it started off fine and then just died out. Expensive!! Willow and Miscanthus require a considerable amount of tlc until they are established crops. So some of mine was in its 4th year for harvesting and the harvester was barely able to handle it.

Miscanthus has had very losses this year due to lodging from the heavy snow in the winter and it looks like it won't cover the harvesting costs for me this year. Rabbits are a big problem with miscanthus, even where they are fenced out.

may2001

there are big problems with burning miscanthus in power stations because of HCl, not proven yet.

Yes apparently miscanthus residues attack the steel of the boilers in some of the power stations. Therefore they only burn a small proportion of miscanthus in the mix of peat, wood chip and miscanthus.

boatbuilder

There is a 50% grant to cover establishment costs, and if you go with farrelly willow, they spread the establishment costs over the later years of the harvest so you get money in your hand from the first year.

Niallf, are you sure its not 3.5k establishment cost per hectare, rather than acre?

newenergyfarms

Visit www.newenergyfarms.com for more information.

niallf

Yea, actually its 3.5k per HA. good spot!

bob charles

Miscanthus should be renamed White elephant grass, close on disaster so far, how people even consider setting such a crop is beyond me.

Re the 11 acres

Maybe your tennat isnt up to much as €850 seems a good bit on the low side for rent. Where is the location.

boatbuilder

Yeah the tenant is my brother :rolleyes:
South County Monaghan

boatbuilder

bob charles wrote: »

Miscanthus should be renamed White elephant grass, close on disaster so far, how people even consider setting such a crop is beyond me.

Could you elaborate on that?

LK_Dave

I have 30 acres of miscanthus and for me it has been a total disaster. If you are considering miscanthus my advise is this

1. Can heavy machinery travel on your land in the months of Jan, Feb, March and April? If the answer to any one of these months is no, then forget it.
2. Miscanthus needs a lot of spraying to control weeds and grass. Spraying weeds is usually not a problem but the sprays that kill grass also kills miscanthus. You need a good managment plan and somebody who is an expert on sprays as even a couple days delay can spell disaster. For this you maybe better off having your own tractor and sprayer or else a top class contractor.
3. No matter what the contractors/experts say you must harvest every year. Even in the first year this means just mulching the crop. like all grasses it needs to be cut. Do not just cut with a mower and leave in a sward.

I was sold this crop on the premise of all I had to do was plant it and walk away. Total BS. The advise I got (paid for) was totally wrong. It included, year one - initially wrong spray to clear the land, too late planting the crop, large areas of the ground were not planted. Year two - too late spraying the crop, hap hazard "patch planting", leaving the crop stand. Year three - again too late with spraying, not enough crop to get a harvest, cutting the crop and leaving in heavy swards, hap hazard "patch planting". Year three - a total disaster as the land was too wet to travel at the start of the year, did not harvest. Year four - first harvest, approx 1.75t/acre, land scared, paid 40% weeks later balance 10 months. Year five - second harvest approx 2t/acre (awaiting confirmation), payment due in June.

paddy reilly

The willow i belive will be a good crop in the future. I did a colege work placment with Farrelly bros/ Timber pro. I was working at the willow and i noticed none of the problems that are being talked about. Farrelly have one of only two harvesters in the country adapted for will. There was some problems at first with the header but these were sorted out quicky. Farrelly have invested massive money in all the equipment. They buy the crop off you and bring it back to their yard in kells, where they dry it and make it into wood pellets. The willow is an expensive crop to plant but it is a one time cost. The only upkeep you need to do is spray it every year. It is planted and then after the first year it is topped. It is then cut every two years after that. The way farrelly does it is you enter into a contract with him and he does all the planting spraying and harvesting. And he buys the crop of you. A very big company ran by two brothers. Both very sound people good to work for.

LK_Dave

I don't know anything about willow but I do have about 70 acres in forestry in outlaying farms. Never had a problem and is a proving to be a great facility. I harvested a couple of mature trees that were in the original hedge groves as firewood and have even harvested a few deer from same land. In the next 4-5 years I'll be looking at tinnings and am looking forward to it.

boatbuilder

paddy reilly wrote: »

The willow i belive will be a good crop in the future. I did a colege work placment with Farrelly bros/ Timber pro. I was working at the willow and i noticed none of the problems that are being talked about. Farrelly have one of only two harvesters in the country adapted for will. There was some problems at first with the header but these were sorted out quicky. Farrelly have invested massive money in all the equipment. They buy the crop off you and bring it back to their yard in kells, where they dry it and make it into wood pellets. The willow is an expensive crop to plant but it is a one time cost. The only upkeep you need to do is spray it every year. It is planted and then after the first year it is topped. It is then cut every two years after that. The way farrelly does it is you enter into a contract with him and he does all the planting spraying and harvesting. And he buys the crop of you. A very big company ran by two brothers. Both very sound people good to work for.

Thanks for that info. I suppose the main concerns I have about willow are:

My site is 420 foot above sea level, so is a bit colder and windier than your average lowland site. I'd be worried about the damage/death this might cause to willow. Farrelly said "its probably not an issue" but at the end of the day, I'm the person taking the financial hit if something goes wrong.

LK_Dave's post about miscanthus is pretty scary stuff but illustrates how you can't always rely on the advice from so called experts working for these private companies.

Lastly, when you enter into a contract with these companies, I presume the price of the willow is fixed at a certain rate.
So if all the hype is correct and renewable fuels such as willow are going to increase in price in the future as oil prices increase, then little old me isn't going to see that price increase, but Farrelly's will make mega bucks on it.

fendt312

what part of the country are you in? . There are 3 willow harvesters in the country .I would be interested in talking to you about willow and showing you my crops if you like .

may2001

boatbuilder wrote: »

Thanks for that info. I suppose the main concerns I have about willow are:

My site is 420 foot above sea level, so is a bit colder and windier than your average lowland site. I'd be worried about the damage/death this might cause to willow. Farrelly said "its probably not an issue" but at the end of the day, I'm the person taking the financial hit if something goes wrong.

LK_Dave's post about miscanthus is pretty scary stuff but illustrates how you can't always rely on the advice from so called experts working for these private companies.

Lastly, when you enter into a contract with these companies, I presume the price of the willow is fixed at a certain rate.
So if all the hype is correct and renewable fuels such as willow are going to increase in price in the future as oil prices increase, then little old me isn't going to see that price increase, but Farrelly's will make mega bucks on it.

My willow crops are nearly 500ft above sea level and they survive no problem. The willow is bred in Scandinavia which means that it is used to harsh winters. Miscanthus is a tropical grass and so may not do as well in our increasingly harsh winters - look at all the imported tropical plants from garden centres around the country which have died out over the last couple of winters. And snow is another problem for miscanthus. My miscanthus was so badly lodged that one contractor looked at it and refused to even consider harvesting it as he said it would do too much damage to his harvester.

I don't think that the growth / harvest projections are ever as good as promoted. The willow trial plots in Teagasc Oakpark Carlow were planted by hand on prime land - so there are no misses and it is quite a dense crop. I notice quite a difference in the performance of willow on good land and poorer land. I am now coming to the conclusion that the yields will barely cover harvesting costs for the the first 6 years, even with good well established crops. So, it is a much longer term committment from the grower.

The price quoted is very often an oven dried price i.e. at 0% moisture, while the crop when harvested will have perhaps 50 to 60% moisture giving you about half the oven dried price per tonne. Confusingly, the yields are often given in oven dried tonnes / ha / year. Contract prices should be index linked to the price of oil, but most do not, as willow chip providers use the price stability as a selling point for end users. Remember also that the willow chip is competing with wood chip from forestry thinnings.

Despite all the talk about renewable energy the govt last week put a big chopper to biomass by removing all grants for biomass boilers which are several times more expensive than oil boilers. Whist these boilers make good economic sense for very large heat users like hotesl with swimming pools, they certainly no longer make sense for average users and this will depress the demand for willow chip also. The peat burning power stations are looking for wood/willow chip as there is now a legal requirement for them to use a certain amount of biomass fuel. However, they are as tough as the meat factories are on cattle prices. I think there will be a reasonable return from willow in the long term but it certainly will not be the pot of gold that was painted. I had hoped to go to the Biomass conference in Tullamore in April, but I had a herd test on the day. The reports from it were quite despondent because of the lack of govt support for the industry.

Lastly, do you have a big concrete yard nearby where the chipped willow can be dumped for loading into trucks. It is important that stones and gravel don't get into it as it will lead to machinery breakdown in the boilers.

LK_Dave

Just heard that I'll be paid next week. Total harvest this year 43.5t!! Never worth it.

boatbuilder

LKDave, is that forrestry or willow you're talking about?

I rang the guy in Bord Na Mona yesterday and he said that they have over 100 farmers interested in growing willow on contract for them.
Reading between the lines, he didn't sound too enthusiastic so I reckon they will cherry-pick the best land that is closest to the power station. Doesn't sound too promising for me since I am in county Monaghan.

I also heard that Farrelly Willow were/are having financial problems.
Not an encouraging thing to hear and my experience so far with both of these companies has seriously put me off willow.

blue5000

Hi boat builder who were you talking to in B Na M?

I reckon any more than 30 miles for transporting willow/miscanthus and it gets economically doubtful. As oil prices rise, the cost of transport and processing will rise too.

boatbuilder

blue5000 wrote: »

Hi boat builder who were you talking to in B Na M?
I reckon any more than 30 miles for transporting willow/miscanthus and it gets economically doubtful. As oil prices rise, the cost of transport and processing will rise too.

I think it was John O'Halloran...

Oldtree

My one concern about willow that I have not really seen addressed is that it is prone to disease. planting a number of different varieties may overcome this problem should one variety get hit.

LK_Dave

boatbuilder wrote: »

LKDave, is that forrestry or willow you're talking about?

I rang the guy in Bord Na Mona yesterday and he said that they have over 100 farmers interested in growing willow on contract for them.
Reading between the lines, he didn't sound too enthusiastic so I reckon they will cherry-pick the best land that is closest to the power station. Doesn't sound too promising for me since I am in county Monaghan.

I also heard that Farrelly Willow were/are having financial problems.
Not an encouraging thing to hear and my experience so far with both of these companies has seriously put me off willow.

Hi Boatbuilder, I'm in miscanthus. Won't be thinning my forestry plantations for another 4-5 years.

boatbuilder

Oldtree wrote: »

My one concern about willow that I have not really seen addressed is that it is prone to disease. planting a number of different varieties may overcome this problem should one variety get hit.

My father in law is "into moths" and is a wildlife warden over in Wales.
He reckons that willow is one of the best things for wildlife, as so many insects love to eat it. Can't imagine it being a massive problem though so long as you keep a good eye on it and spray if necessary.

may2001

LK_Dave wrote: »

Just heard that I'll be paid next week. Total harvest this year 43.5t!! Never worth it.

How many acres did you have?

I had 208 tn from 25 acres of 3 and 4 year growth

= 208tn from 10.1 ha = 20.5tn/ha
Yield = 20.5/3.5yr = 5.9tn per ha per year which is a lot less than the 10tn/ha/yr predicted.

I received my cheque during the week for March harvest.

may2001

boatbuilder wrote: »

My father in law is "into moths" and is a wildlife warden over in Wales.
He reckons that willow is one of the best things for wildlife, as so many insects love to eat it. Can't imagine it being a massive problem though so long as you keep a good eye on it and spray if necessary.

Spraying is rather difficult after the 1st year due to the height of the plants. Some of my 4yr growth must have been more than 5m high and the re-growth after the March harvest is now nearly 2m high.

I did spray some thistles in my crop in the 2nd year when it was about 2m high. The tractor and sprayer pushed the stems down, but my sprayer man was not anxiouse to do it again due to sprayer nozzle damage.

LK_Dave

may2001 wrote: »

How many acres did you have?

I had 208 tn from 25 acres of 3 and 4 year growth

= 208tn from 10.1 ha = 20.5tn/ha
Yield = 20.5/3.5yr = 5.9tn per ha per year which is a lot less than the 10tn/ha/yr predicted.

I received my cheque during the week for March harvest.

I think we maybe comparing apples and oranges. I believe you have willow and I have miscanthus.

But for the record, I have about 25 acres of miscanthus.

may2001

LK_Dave wrote: »

I think we maybe comparing apples and oranges. I believe you have willow and I have miscanthus.

But for the record, I have about 25 acres of miscanthus.

Yes, my figures above were for willow. I also have 25 acres miscanthus planted in 2007.

First harvest was in March 2010 with 36tn of bales. - way short of the 4tn/acre predicted.

March 2011 harvest was chipped with maize harvester and had moisture content of 50% to 60%. I haven't got any returns yet on this - but I don't think it will be any better as it was badly lodged due to the snow.

crackcrack30

may2001 wrote: »

. Some of my 4yr growth must have been more than 5m high and the re-growth after the March harvest is now nearly 2m high.

Planning on planting a hectare or so of mixed woodland for future copicing for firewood, How thick does the willow grow and is it suitable for chopsaw and firewood after giving it a year to season?

& to keep on topic how much (roughly) per harvested tonne of miscanthus are ye guys paid ............cc30

Oldtree

boatbuilder wrote: »

My father in law is "into moths" and is a wildlife warden over in Wales.
He reckons that willow is one of the best things for wildlife, as so many insects love to eat it. Can't imagine it being a massive problem though so long as you keep a good eye on it and spray if necessary.

Willow is very early in the year to flower and is excellent as an early source of nectar. A mature willow can have as many as 400 species living on it.

One thought of adding value to these crops is carbon sequestering in the roots. One figure I am aware of is that a maturing meadow sequesters up to 3 tonnes of carbon per hectar, I dont know what it is for biofuel crops. Could an extra payment be gleaned for this too?

may2001

crackcrack30 wrote: »

Planning on planting a hectare or so of mixed woodland for future copicing for firewood, How thick does the willow grow and is it suitable for chopsaw and firewood after giving it a year to season?

& to keep on topic how much (roughly) per harvested tonne of miscanthus are ye guys paid ............cc30

I'm not sure whether willow would be the best to plant for firewood - especially if you are going to sell the firewood.

Two years ago, I cut up a mature willow tree which was blown down in one of our field boundaries. Actually this was in preparation for planting willow in the field. The butt of the tree was about 500mm in diamater. I left the blocks of timber on a concrete yard to season, but found that it does not dry unless covered and in fact the blocks of timber all developed willow shoots until they were brought into a shed. When brought into a shed it did dry out quite well, but it is harder to split than ash of a similar diameter. When dry, the timber is very light compared to ash or even spruce. It burns quite well in an open fire, but does not last long.

I don't think that it would be a very popular seller as firewood. I would much prefer to plant ash for firewood.

The going rate for willow chip seems to be 60 Euro per oven dried tonne ex farm. This equates to about 30 Euro per tonne for freshly harvested willow chip which is about 50% to 60% moisture.

Alfasud

How did the allottments ever go? I don't hear much about them anywhere.

reilig

may2001 wrote: »

I'm not sure whether willow would be the best to plant for firewood - especially if you are going to sell the firewood.

Two years ago, I cut up a mature willow tree which was blown down in one of our field boundaries. Actually this was in preparation for planting willow in the field. The butt of the tree was about 500mm in diamater. I left the blocks of timber on a concrete yard to season, but found that it does not dry unless covered and in fact the blocks of timber all developed willow shoots until they were brought into a shed. When brought into a shed it did dry out quite well, but it is harder to split than ash of a similar diameter. When dry, the timber is very light compared to ash or even spruce. It burns quite well in an open fire, but does not last long.

I don't think that it would be a very popular seller as firewood. I would much prefer to plant ash for firewood.

The going rate for willow chip seems to be 60 Euro per oven dried tonne ex farm. This equates to about 30 Euro per tonne for freshly harvested willow chip which is about 50% to 60% moisture.

I'd prefer willow to spruce. Willow will burn for almost 50% longer in my gasifier. Of course Ash is the dream wood, but it can be 15 years before you can have any return from thinnings in an ash plantation - even then the return will be small. Willow can be coppiced from year 7 onwards and will continue to regrow. The other advantage of willow is that it will grow in poor or marshy soil - often the piece of land which isn't suitable for other agricultural activities.

may2001

reilig wrote: »

I'd prefer willow to spruce. Willow will burn for almost 50% longer in my gasifier. Of course Ash is the dream wood, but it can be 15 years before you can have any return from thinnings in an ash plantation - even then the return will be small. Willow can be coppiced from year 7 onwards and will continue to regrow. The other advantage of willow is that it will grow in poor or marshy soil - often the piece of land which isn't suitable for other agricultural activities.

That's interesting, that willow lasts 50% longer in your gasifier as the experts have always told me that the heat output from burning any timber is almost the same per unit of weight i.e. a kg of softwood will give approximately the same heat output as a kg of hardwood. With a dense hardwood you should be able to fit more kg of it in the boiler and hence you should get more heat from the fill. The willow I have used here was much lighter (less dense) than the spruce and maybe the densities vary with the different varieties of willow. I have only used it in an open fireplace with a back boiler and whilst it burned very hot it did not have the same lasting power as ash or hawthorn. Maybe your gasifier throttles back on the combustion and makes it last longer?

I think we need to be careful when saying that willow thrives on poor marshy ground as I have found a considerable difference in the growth in 2 fields, one of which is a bit boggy. Talking to other growers I have found that growth has been much poorer on poor ground. Willow takes up a lot of moisture from the ground (possibly more than any other similar plant), but I think it still needs good ground to thrive or alternatively needs enrichment from slurry, sludge etc. Thats probably why willow is so popular in reed beds for slurry/sewage treatment.

crackcrack30

reilig wrote: »

I'd prefer willow to spruce. Willow will burn for almost 50% longer in my gasifier. Of course Ash is the dream wood, but it can be 15 years before you can have any return from thinnings in an ash plantation - even then the return will be small. Willow can be coppiced from year 7 onwards and will continue to regrow. The other advantage of willow is that it will grow in poor or marshy soil - often the piece of land which isn't suitable for other agricultural activities.

Can you not coppice the Ash plantation after 7-10 years?

reilig

As you stated, the willow is more dense than the softwood and therefore burns for longer - well that's my experience. The boiler is thermostatically controlled. When it reaches a certain temperature, it reduces the air supply and continues to put out heat at a steady rate. Willow gets it to the base temperature very fast, and then when the air supply is reduced, it burns for a long time. Burning willow in an open fireplace does not give any control over the air supply and therefore it burns out at full pace - often giving out an awful lot of heat, but burning very fast.

Willow that I have planted for firewood definitely does better on damp and boggy ground. Again, it is probably type specific - the cuttings for the ground that I have planted were sourced from willow on boggy ground. I'm definitely not advocating that people plant willow for biomass harvesting on marshy ground. I was suggesting that people could put land to use that was unsuitable for farming because of wet conditions by growing willow for firewood on it (as I am doing myself quite successfully).

There can be no debate, Willow is one of the poorest hardwoods for burning - especially when you compare it to ash, oak, whitethorn etc. However, this is reflected in the growth time and the return from a willow plantation. It is definitely possible to replace an oil boiler in a large house which uses €3000 of oil per year with an acre of willow. Plant 1/5 of it every year. Harvest 1/5 of it every year from year 6. You'll have enough firewood to burn in your gasifying boiler and never have to replant. This cannot be achieved with any other type of hardwood native to Ireland.

may2001 wrote: »

That's interesting, that willow lasts 50% longer in your gasifier as the experts have always told me that the heat output from burning any timber is almost the same per unit of weight i.e. a kg of softwood will give approximately the same heat output as a kg of hardwood. With a dense hardwood you should be able to fit more kg of it in the boiler and hence you should get more heat from the fill. The willow I have used here was much lighter (less dense) than the spruce and maybe the densities vary with the different varieties of willow. I have only used it in an open fireplace with a back boiler and whilst it burned very hot it did not have the same lasting power as ash or hawthorn. Maybe your gasifier throttles back on the combustion and makes it last longer?

I think we need to be careful when saying that willow thrives on poor marshy ground as I have found a considerable difference in the growth in 2 fields, one of which is a bit boggy. Talking to other growers I have found that growth has been much poorer on poor ground. Willow takes up a lot of moisture from the ground (possibly more than any other similar plant), but I think it still needs good ground to thrive or alternatively needs enrichment from slurry, sludge etc. Thats probably why willow is so popular in reed beds for slurry/sewage treatment.

reilig

crackcrack30 wrote: »

Can you not coppice the Ash plantation after 7-10 years?

You could coppace ash at year 2, but you'd only have twigs. I have no experience of it, but have read a bit about it and it appears that the average age of ash plantations suitable for thinning is 14 to 17 years. An ash plantation on very good land may be suitable after 12 years, but it is rare.

may2001

3000 of oil per year with an acre of willow. Plant 1/5 of it every year. Harvest 1/5 of it every year from year 6. You'll have enough firewood to burn in your gasifying boiler and never have to replant. This cannot be achieved with any other type of hardwood native to Ireland. [/QUOTE]

Thats an interesting idea. There is an area in one corner of a field which I have planted with willow which is not machine accessible. A number of questions:

1) How did you prepare the area - did you spray off and plough etc?

2) How did you control competing vegetation for the first couple of years?

3) How did you plant?

4) What spacing?

5) Do you just harvest with a chain saw?

6) What diameter and height are they when harvested?

7) Where / how do you dry/season the cut timber?

8) Do you dry it in pole or log form?

9) Did you have any SFP issues resulting from doing this?

reilig

Thats an interesting idea. There is an area in one corner of a field which I have planted with willow which is not machine accessible. A number of questions: 1) How did you prepare the area - did you spray off and plough etc? 2) How did you control competing vegetation for the first couple of years? 3) How did you plant? 4) What spacing? 5) Do you just harvest with a chain saw? 6) What diameter and height are they when harvested? 7) Where / how do you dry/season the cut timber? 8) Do you dry it in pole or log form? 9) Did you have any SFP issues resulting?[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]


I planted mine on a piece of cutaway bog. I sprayed with Glyphosate to clear the ground and just planted the cuttings with a planting pole at 1 meter spacings. Its bogland so the only major competition for the first year is grass - however, I planted willow slips that were 1 meter long and they really took off. I cut them about 1 foot from the ground at the beginning of year 2 to encourage multiple sprouts from them. The piece of land that I have planted them on is not counted under my farm maps - but I imagine that anyone growing them like on land which is counted for SFP would need to remove the growing area from their maps - remember last year there was a big crack down on areas of scrub.

I'm in year 3 now. I have no useable wood yet. But in 2 more years, I should be able to cut out the heavier poles from it and i should have logs up to 4 inches in diameter. I might give it an extra year which will allow it to grow thicker if I can source enough wood till then to keep the boiler going.

I'm currently using willow wood from hedgerows that I had to coppice for REPS 4. Its diameter varies from 3 inches to 1 foot. I have a couple of years supply which should get me to the point where the willow that I have planted will be suitable for burning. I saw with a chainsaw - and expect to saw with a chainsaw when the willow that I have planted is suitable. Willow is very easy on chainsaw chains. I cut them into 6ft lengths and stack them in a hayshed with no sides and allowed to air dry for at least 12 months. Wood ic checked with a moisture meter and has to be below 20% before I can use it in the boiler - this is easily achieved. However, it is important that it doesn't go below 10% moisture either or it will drastically reduce the burn time in the gasifier. I saw them on a simple saw horse. Only the willow above 8" in diameter needs to be split so that the gasifyer will take it.

I can't say what height willow will be when its harvested - it varies. I'm trying to encourage multiple shoots from each plant - but i will trim off the smaller ones after year 2 so that the plant can push all its growth into 4 or 5 shoots.

boatbuilder

I'm heading down to the Bord na Mona "Willow open day" tomorrow.
I worked really hard this year on my land, made thousands of top quality hay bales and can't get them sold for anything over €1.50 a bale. So willow is looking attractive at the moment.

boatbuilder

Well, spent a day down at BNM last week and got a tour of the power staton at Edenderry. Its an impressive operation and I learned a few things.
One thing that I learned was that all willow establishment grants have been suspended pending a full review of government departments... which probably explains why there were only five people at the open day when I was there.

My feeling about the whole thing is that Miscanthus is a non-starter...don't even go there. Miscanthus has too much chlorine in it, so can't be burned safely in the power station as it forms an acid when burned, which damages the steel inside the boiler of the power station. (the power station is basically just like a massive wood/peat-burning stove with a back boiler).

Willow would be ok if you live fairly close to Edenderry. For larger distances, your haulage costs will come out of your profits! One thing I didn't like was that they said that if Bord na Mona help to plant the crop (in effect lend you the other half of the establishment cost to be paid back over 20 years), you cannot take cuttings from the willow to plant elsewhere, as the "royalties" would be due to BNM. A bit cheeky I thought, as its not like they are giving you the money....its a loan.

Insecticide spraying is essential because of leatherjacket damage....they burrow down under the ground and eat the roots of the willow.

The machinery and equipment for harvesting hasn't been perfected yet....basically only one easy way at the moment and thats to chip it. Unfortunately, this means delivering wet chip to BNM, which they pay less for than drier stuff.
Whole stem harvesting is tricky because its hard to handle bundles of tall willow. Experients have been done recently with a specially designed round baler, but apparently it doesn't do a good job and needs more work on the design to make it work properly. If this happened, I could see the round bale option becoming popular because its easy to handle round bales, plus you could stack it somewhere on your land to dry out, then ship it to BNM at a lower moisture content, which means more money per tonne.
The hope would be that if you planted this year, by the time it comes to your first harvest, the round baler would be in operation.

LK_Dave

boatbuilder wrote: »

Experients have been done recently with a specially designed round baler, but apparently it doesn't do a good job and needs more work on the design to make it work properly.

Do you know who is designing the baler? I’d be interested to know if it is one of the established baler manufacturers, a standalone engineering company or a back garden shed hero.

reilig

LK_Dave wrote: »

Do you know who is designing the baler? I’d be interested to know if it is one of the established baler manufacturers, a standalone engineering company or a back garden shed hero.

http://www.grpanderson.com/en/biomass/biobaler-system

boatbuilder

LK_Dave wrote: »

Do you know who is designing the baler? I’d be interested to know if it is one of the established baler manufacturers, a standalone engineering company or a back garden shed hero.

Don't know who designed it, but it was brought over from Canada on trial.

F.D

Anyone in ireland got one of these biobalers yet ? or is there a dealer appointed? Might have an area where it could be used
Boatbuilder thanks for the BNM info very interesting

may2001

boatbuilder wrote: »

you cannot take cuttings from the willow to plant elsewhere, as the "royalties" would be due to BNM. A bit cheeky I thought, as its not like they are giving you the money....its a loan.

I think that the royalties are due to the willow plant breeders in Sweden rather than to BNM. A similar clause was written into my planting contract - not my supply contract.

boatbuilder wrote: »

Insecticide spraying is essential because of leatherjacket damage....they burrow down under the ground and eat the roots of the willow.

Spraying for weeds, particularly nettles and thistles is also very important in years 1 & 2. I had substantial losses in one field in year 1 due to not paying enough attention to this. Careful choice of the spray is needed. Stomp is the best, but is no longer licenced for use on willow in the Republic but is still licenced for this use in the UK & NI.

boatbuilder wrote: »

Whole stem harvesting is tricky because its hard to handle bundles of tall willow.

I have seen the whole stem harvester working on willow in Oakpark in Carlow and it manages the stems quite well. The problem is that it introduces another set of handling costs in that the bundles must be collected from the field, placed in storage for drying and then chipped. Each time you handle the material adds to the costs of what is a relatively low value material.

boatbuilder wrote: »

Experients have been done recently with a specially designed round baler, but apparently it doesn't do a good job and needs more work on the design to make it work properly. If this happened, I could see the round bale option becoming popular because its easy to handle round bales, plus you could stack it somewhere on your land to dry out, then ship it to BNM at a lower moisture content, which means more money per tonne.
The hope would be that if you planted this year, by the time it comes to your first harvest, the round baler would be in operation.

I saw the bio-baler operating in Oakpark last year. The bale produced is about the same size as a 4 x 4 round bale, but is not very dense and almost certainly would need to be chipped before transport to the power plant as a truck load of bales would probably weigh a lot less than a truck load of straw bales.

The biobaler is manufactured by a Canadian firm, (Google for biobaler) and seems well made. It was driven by a 150hp tractor in Oakpark. I haven't researched the cost and if anyone knows please post. It should certainly be as economical a solution as the very expensive 600hp willow cut and chip harvesters.

By the way, did BNM give any projections as to annual yields from willow?

catp

LKDave .... I went thru the exact same as you. Just taut it was me. Are you still growing it??

LK_Dave

catp wrote: »

LKDave .... I went thru the exact same as you. Just taut it was me. Are you still growing it??

yep still growing it...just harvested today!!