Newbie, Does the grip matter

whatstherush

Hi all,

I'm starting out at golf, unfortunately I have been playing hurling down the years and when I try to grip the golf club with the orthodox grip (Left hand on top) it feels like I have no control of the club. When I switch to the hurley grip (right hand on top) it feels way better, and I hit the ball way better IMO. But I figure there must be a reason why everyone uses the other grip. Should I try to work on the orthodox grip or would I get away with the other grip.

Cheers

who_ru

i think grip does matter a lot. it dictates how the club face will impact upon the ball, ball flight, trajectory etc. and of course accuracy.

on the other hand, you must also feel comfortable with what you are doing.

i'm left handed, i previously used the baseball grip, left hand cupping right hand. slice after slice after slice followed.

now i place left hand above right hand, with little finger of left hand interlocked between 1st and 2nd finger of right hand. the club face is now at the right angle to impact the ball correctly, the number of slices i have has fallen dramatically. and i feel more confident ahead of hitting the ball, which makes a huge difference.

i'm still learning the game (when are you not really?) but this change of grip has helped me a lot.

at the end of the day you will have to go to the range, hit ball after ball with different grips, and see which works best for you.

good luck.

Jasonw

A good (read orthodox) grip is the building block of a good golf swing. If you are just starting out and feel you might get serious about the game, pay a visit to a professional or good amateur and just ask him to show you how to grip the club properly, nothing more. Take that away for a month and practice it on the range. I can promise you that it will feel horrible and alien at first but stick with it. It will be worth it in the end.
There is a good reason why none of the tour players play 'cack handed' as they call it. Before I get eaten by all the hurley grippers out there, there is no reason why you can't get to low single figures using a hurley grip, but in my opinion you would get there in spite it rather than because of it.

stockdam

The grip and the setup are most important. You can play well with a hurley grip but it's likely that it will hinder you.

Mr. Larson

Paramount. It's what connects you and the club.

k.p.h

Started playing pitch and putt 2 and a half years ago and luckily enough I decided to grip the club orthodox even after playing hurling all my life.

I found hitting the ball easy enough, coordination was good from playing other sports and I could really hit it a good smack. It didn't take long until I broke 90. The thing was I lost almost everything to the right. It was pretty annoying and it was really erratic score 100 one day 87 the next.

What I needed to do was get a bit more consistent so the grip was the first place to go. I had a weak grip (that is orthodox but in the wrong position). In the middle of last season I switched this grip to a strong position. This helped sort out loosing everything to the right a bit and it led to me being more consistent. I managed to shoot consistent low 80s rounds last year with one 79 coming near the end.

Started back this year and managed a few decent rounds but even with a good amount of range time I felt I was not improving. I was still suffering from inconsistencies and my ball flight was not predictable. I decided to address this and I realized that I was manipulating the club with my hands to try make the club face square at impact. This led me to changing my grip to a neutral position and trying to learn how to cock the wrists properly and release them.

Currently working hard trying to get used to this new technique. It's hard at times but I'v realized that good technique is the key to a repeatable swing. And key to this has been the grip. I have changed to now from weak to strong to neutral each time with noticeable differences that have effected my score and in turn my enjoyment of the game.

I think a rabbit hole is an adequate way to describe golf since it is such a technical skillful game. And thats what makes it great in my opinion. It's a journey to acquire the skill needed to play properly and challenge yourself against the course and competitor.

Often I hear people say " just grip it and rip it " but they are the guys that have never seen the left side of the course. Sometimes people put good score together with a swing sorted from random tips and occasional lessons. But occasionally you see guys swinging and hear that sound that a pure strike makes. It's then you realize that they did't grip it and rip it, what they have is hard earned. Its a skill learned and practiced with a lot of effort and time invested. Foundations are important if you are going to build and certainly the grip is the foundation of a golf swing.

Grip it the right way and in few months you will be well down that rabbit hole swearing, smiling and dreaming about par.;)

whatstherush

Thanks all for the replies. Going to work on the orthodox grip so, hopefully it will feel more natural the more I use it.

Cheers

VikingG

Heard a story about Seve over the weekend...when somebody spotted his son holding a golf club cack handed said to Seve why dont you correct his grip.
Seve replied..."When he gets older some one of his friends will tell him how to hold the club properly... and he will change .. but then he will be able to play both ways!"

Martin567

I posed a question on another thread recently and I was amazed that nobody even attempted to answer it. When I see people making disparaging comments such as "cross-handed" and "cack-handed" I assume that they have a good understanding of what they are talking about and are not just bluffing. Yet nobody could give me any sort of a technical answer.

The question was looking at hurlers taking frees as this is the most similar to golf. Henry Shefflin & Eoin Kelly hold the hurl with the right hand on top and look completely orthodox. Gary Kirby (although a great free-taker) was left-handed but hit from the right. Therefore he had his left hand on top and looked incredibly awkward while taking frees. Yet, if these three lads went out to play golf exactly as they play hurling, it is Kirby who would be considered orthodox while Shefflin & Kelly would apparently be "cross-handed".

I'm not suggesting that people should grip a golf club with the right hand on top as the case is obviously well-proven that left on top is the correct grip. This is just a genuine request for a technical answer from anyone familiar with both sports. To me, it just seems counter-intuitive to have your "weak" hand on top and therefore presumably controlling the swing. Also, terms such as "cross-handed" and "cack-handed" and how bad they look seem very arbitrary when the complete opposite view would exist in hurling.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056249888&page=2

k.p.h

Martin567 wrote: »

I posed a question on another thread recently and I was amazed that nobody even attempted to answer it. When I see people making disparaging comments such as "cross-handed" and "cack-handed" I assume that they have a good understanding of what they are talking about and are not just bluffing. Yet nobody could give me any sort of a technical answer.

The question was looking at hurlers taking frees as this is the most similar to golf. Henry Shefflin & Eoin Kelly hold the hurl with the right hand on top and look completely orthodox. Gary Kirby (although a great free-taker) was left-handed but hit from the right. Therefore he had his left hand on top and looked incredibly awkward while taking frees. Yet, if these three lads went out to play golf exactly as they play hurling, it is Kirby who would be considered orthodox while Shefflin & Kelly would apparently be "cross-handed".

I'm not suggesting that people should grip a golf club with the right hand on top as the case is obviously well-proven that left on top is the correct grip. This is just a genuine request for a technical answer from anyone familiar with both sports. To me, it just seems counter-intuitive to have your "weak" hand on top and therefore presumably controlling the swing. Also, terms such as "cross-handed" and "cack-handed" and how bad they look seem very arbitrary when the complete opposite view would exist in hurling.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056249888&page=2

Sound Martin :rolleyes: shur I answered you question fairly conclusively. It is because hurling is played with one hand on the hurley and the ball in the other. All stick sports that have both hands on the stick have conventional grips like golf because it works better to hinge the most powerful hand with the bad hand. This allows for more power and accuracy. Hockey is a good example of this or lacross or baseball. Its even a popular grip in shinty a game thats very similar to hurling.

If you wanted to get very technical on it just stand side ways in a door frame and push outwards with the back of your left hand . Most of your power is coming from you deltoid muscle on the outside of your shoulder. Not the most powerful muscle in the human body TBH.

Basically hurling is the exact same as golf in as the most powerful hand is conventionally placed in the most effective spot to generate power and accuracy.

TBH you shouldn't be comparing golf and hurling as they really share nothing other that a ball and a stick. The swings are completely different you might as well be comparing snooker and hurling IMO.

Martin567

k.p.h wrote: »

Sound Martin :rolleyes: shur I answered you question fairly conclusively. It is because hurling is played with one hand on the hurley and the ball in the other. All stick sports that have both hands on the stick have conventional grips like golf because it works better to hinge the most powerful hand with the bad hand. This allows for more power and accuracy. Hockey is a good example of this or lacross or baseball. Its even a popular grip in shinty a game thats very similar to hurling.

If you wanted to get very technical on it just stand side ways in a door frame and push outwards with the back of your left hand . Most of your power is coming from you deltoid muscle on the outside of your shoulder. Not the most powerful muscle in the human body TBH.

Basically hurling is the exact same as golf in as the most powerful hand is conventionally placed in the most effective spot to generate power and accuracy.

TBH you shouldn't be comparing golf and hurling as they really share nothing other that a ball and a stick. The swings are completely different you might as well be comparing snooker and hurling IMO.

Thanks for at least attempting to answer the question. Maybe it's just me but I'm still struggling to get what you're saying above. Just say a top-class hurler, who regularly slotted over frees from 90 yards in, retires and decides to take up golf (never having touched a golf club before). If he goes for a lesson with a pro, he will be told to change his grip. If I was that player, I would need a lot of convincing (detailed technical reasons) to convince me that my natural method would not work. I would need to fully understand why in my mind before I would even consider changing.

I can't agree with you about snooker above. Look at a free being taken in hurling. It has a fair degree of similarity with golf. Snooker has none.

I play golf like Phil Mickelson (I wish!!) in that I am right handed but play golf from the left. I never say that I play left handed in that, to me, there is nothing left handed about it. My grip is a conventional left handed grip (right above left). To me, the left hand is simply keeping the club steady and giving me extra power. All the work and feel in the swing is being done with my right hand. In that, I presume I'm the same as a left handed person who plays golf right handed. Presumably there are some well known Pro's who play like that although nobody ever comments on that.

Anyway, the point is that there are quite a few successful professionals who play with their strong hand on top. This seems to contradict the idea of hinging the strong hand with the weak hand. To describe right above left as "cross-handed" just seems arbitrary to me. The conventional grip of left above right could just as easily be seen as "cross-handed".

Osgoodisgood

Martin567 wrote: »

Just say a top-class hurler, who regularly slotted over frees from 90 yards in, retires and decides to take up golf (never having touched a golf club before). If he goes for a lesson with a pro, he will be told to change his grip.

He won't need to "change" his grip. Having never played golf before he won't have one.

If I was that player, I would need a lot of convincing (detailed technical reasons) to convince me that my natural method would not work. I would need to fully understand why in my mind before I would even consider changing.

So a guy who has never played before takes the trouble to book a lesson with a professional and then requires detailed explanations behind the advice he is being given before considering adopting the guidance?

Anyway, the point is that there are quite a few successful professionals who play with their strong hand on top. This seems to contradict the idea of hinging the strong hand with the weak hand.

Unless you're Jeremy Beadle the argument is largely semantic

To describe right above left as "cross-handed" just seems arbitrary to me. The conventional grip of left above right could just as easily be seen as "cross-handed".

99.999% (figures available at www.justpulledemoutofmybutt.com) of golfers play right handed with right below left and "they" are cross-handed?

Martin567

Osgoodisgood wrote: »

He won't need to "change" his grip. Having never played golf before he won't have one.



So a guy who has never played before takes the trouble to book a lesson with a professional and then requires detailed explanations behind the advice he is being given before considering adopting the guidance?




Unless you're Jeremy Beadle the argument is largely semantic



99.999% (figures available at www.justpulledemoutofmybutt.com) of golfers play right handed with right below left and "they" are cross-handed?

You haven't really addressed any point I've made but I'll humour you by replying anyway.

Of course a top-class hurler will have a "natural" golf grip even if he has never played golf before. He would surely get to a decent standard much quicker using that grip than trying to learn left above right. The conventional wisdom is that to be really good he would need to change. All I'm saying is that a good teacher would need to be able to explain why he should and why he will ultimately play better. A professional who simply says "you'll never be any good playing like that, you have to do it this way" but can't explain why would not be very good at their job in my opinion.

I have no idea what your reference to Jeremy Beadle is about. My point was that the theory behind the conventional golf grip is that you hinge your strong hand with the weak hand. 10% of the population is left-handed but lots of these play golf right-handed. Presumably what they are doing is completely unconventional despite appearing conventional at first sight? If two beginners turn up for a lesson, one left handed and one right handed but both with right handed clubs, doesn't it seem odd that they will both be advised to adopt the very same grip? How does this tie in with the concept of having the strong hand in the best place on the club and hinging it in place with the weak hand?

My point about "cross-handed" was simply that it is an arbitrary term. It wasn't meant in a negative way as you seemed to take it up. I am simply saying that you could just as easily say that the conventional golf grip is a "cross-handed" grip.

samdeman

Just remember the old saying- "never put your finger where you wouldn't put your mickey!" this old saying has always stayed with me and served me well:D

k.p.h

I understand where you are coming from martin asking about the grip and the real simple answer is that it dose not work playing golf "cross handed" hence it is called cross handed.

My mates younger brother is a talented hurler was panel member on Tipp minor team last year. He plays golf with us about once a week and I mentioned it to him about him using a proper golf grip and how come he did not use the hurley grip and his answer was "shur that would be pure stupid". He hit 280 yard draws with 20 yards of draw pretty much every time and he only hits a driver 14 times a week. Their is a lot to be said about some talent and a proper grip

Its as simple as that really people who hit with the left hand on the bottom are almost always less accurate and less powerful.

A top class hurler even one of the best of all time would not get too far playing golf with a cross handed grip. Here is a pic of 3 handicaper DJ Carey

carlito57

some inspiration

http://www.ruthlessgolf.com/2011/03/how-to-copy-josh-broadaway-if-you-dare.html

for a conventional grip - how you grip it matters alot - hogan dedicated 19 pages in the modern fundamentals on grip alone!!

Martin567

k.p.h wrote: »

I understand where you are coming from martin asking about the grip and the real simple answer is that it dose not work playing golf "cross handed" hence it is called cross handed.

My mates younger brother is a talented hurler was panel member on Tipp minor team last year. He plays golf with us about once a week and I mentioned it to him about him using a proper golf grip and how come he did not use the hurley grip and his answer was "shur that would be pure stupid". He hit 280 yard draws with 20 yards of draw pretty much every time and he only hits a driver 14 times a week. Their is a lot to be said about some talent and a proper grip

Its as simple as that really people who hit with the left hand on the bottom are almost always less accurate and less powerful.

A top class hurler even one of the best of all time would not get too far playing golf with a cross handed grip. Here is a pic of 3 handicaper DJ Carey

Thanks for that. I'm not for a second disputing any of the above. I'm just not the sort of person who could ever do something just because everyone else says so if it doesn't make sense to me. I would always need to understand why it is correct. It's interesting to me that there have been more than 600 views of this thread but you're the only one who even attempted to answer the question. It would seem to me that there are a lot of people like the guy you mentioned above who consider anything other than the conventional grip to be stupid but yet are completely unable to explain why.

I googled this quickly and I discovered that Greg Norman & Curtis Strange are both left handed. Presumably there are many more like them. Would you agree that Norman, Strange, Mickelson & Weir (both right handed) are just as unconventional in a way as those with a "cross-handed" grip? All four play with their dominant hand on top which runs counter to the rationale for the conventional grip as you described earlier.

I would imagine that the percentage of players in Ireland who play left-handed or or who play right-handed with a cross-handed grip is far higher than any other country. This would be due entirely to hurling.