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Totting ban, loss of licence, procedures

  • 08-05-2011 7:58pm
    #1
    Grass between the tracks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 122 ✭✭


    Hypothetical question. Maybe someone here can answer this for me?

    If a person is to be banned for amassing 12 points in a 3 year period, is the ban simply an administrative procedure by the department of transport or is the person banned by a court order? Is the person allowed to give reasons not to be banned, such as exceptional hardship to others etc?


Comments

  • #2
    ottostreet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭ottostreet


    If such a hypothetical situation were to arise, I'd say that person deserved it...12 points is a fair few offences to rack up that quickly!

    I believe it is a court order also, and non-appealable afaik. I stand to be corrected though


  • #3
    CiniO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    As far as I read something some while ago, it's an addministrative matter, and no appeals possible.


  • #4
    robtri
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    hypothetically speaking there are no excuses.. the driver should have thought of the hardship before amassing 12 points, he hypothetically didnt give a **** so why should the court....


  • #5
    CiniO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    ottostreet wrote: »
    If such a hypothetical situation were to arise, I'd say that person deserved it...12 points is a fair few offences to rack up that quickly!

    It's really hard to say, without knowing all the details.

    12 points over 3 years make average 4 points over a year.

    You can very easily earn that much.
    Sometimes even absolutely unfairly, like getting 4 points in the court for speeding, instead of 2, just because the fixed penalty notice letter was lost.

    You can get points even if you don't drive. Like if you are the owner of the car, and you are unable to state who was driving it while the car was caught on speed camera, so you get points.

    The same I'm sure it's way easier to collect 12 points for someone who drives 150 thousand kms a year, than someone who drivers only 5k.

    So I wouldn't generalise.

    I exceeded the points limit when I was 20 y.o. and must say it was just a bad luck. As I didn't really change my driving style since then, and barely got any points since then for last 9 years.


  • #6
    Reloc8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Reloc8


    ottostreet wrote: »
    If such a hypothetical situation were to arise, I'd say that person deserved it...12 points is a fair few offences to rack up that quickly!

    I believe it is a court order also, and non-appealable afaik. I stand to be corrected though

    No.

    The disqualification is imposed on the 12th point within a 3 year period, and applies until sufficient points have lapsed to bring the driver below the 12. There is no court order.

    To answer the OP's question, there are no exceptions possible.


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  • #7
    ottostreet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭ottostreet


    I made it to 8 points, which were accrued over 19 months. I should have been well over 12 between GATSO vans catching me but never receiving letters, and Gardai just plain letting me off after stopping me.

    After that, I knew I had to change my driving. The cars I drive now are far quicker than what I did when I picked up those points (mostly speeding, with a bit of mobile phone useage thrown in). I have not gotten any points in two years now, and am back down to 4 next month.

    You can be unlucky, but I think there is just enough leeway with 12 points to allow you to make the occasional mistake, but to actually make it to twelve without changing your driving means its moreso the driver at fault.

    Of course, thats just my opinion though!


  • #8
    CiniO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Reloc8 wrote: »
    No.

    The disqualification is imposed on the 12th point within a 3 year period, and applies until sufficient points have lapsed to bring the driver below the 12.

    That's not true.
    Disqualification is imposed on the 12th point, but applies only for 6 months. After that period, you get your licence back, with 0 points on it.


  • #9
    ottostreet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭ottostreet


    CiniO wrote: »
    That's not true.
    Disqualification is imposed on the 12th point, but applies only for 6 months. After that period, you get your licence back, with 0 points on it.

    WHAT?! really? Wouldn't that just mean anyone whos on ten points or so would be better off just going on holidays or stop driving for six months, and just get themselves disqualified just to get themselves a clean licence again?


  • #10
    CiniO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    ottostreet wrote: »
    WHAT?! really? Wouldn't that just mean anyone whos on ten points or so would be better off just going on holidays or stop driving for six months, and just get themselves disqualified just to get themselves a clean licence again?

    Generally - yes.

    But depends what you mean by saying "clean licence".

    Before assume someone has say 10 points, or so.
    I'm sure it might increase insurance premium, but within some limits.

    After, he has 0 points, but for a question "have you ever been disqualified from driving" answer will be "yes". I'm sure consequences will be much more severe.


  • #11
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,473 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Reloc8 wrote: »
    No.

    The disqualification is imposed on the 12th point within a 3 year period, and applies until sufficient points have lapsed to bring the driver below the 12. There is no court order.

    To answer the OP's question, there are no exceptions possible.
    Ah so it is not like in the UK, where they have to drag you into court to ban you. You can then tell the judge that you need the car to take your sick granny to hospital and they don't ban you.

    A bit like this chap. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-13277186


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  • #12
    Reloc8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Reloc8


    CiniO wrote: »
    That's not true.
    Disqualification is imposed on the 12th point, but applies only for 6 months. After that period, you get your licence back, with 0 points on it.

    I'm blushing - you're absolutely right - lazy/crap post by me.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2002/en/act/pub/0012/sec0003.html#sec3

    (Link to S. 3 RTA 2002).

    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    Ah so it is not like in the UK, where they have to drag you into court to ban you. You can then tell the judge that you need the car to take your sick granny to hospital and they don't ban you.

    A bit like this chap. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-13277186

    Nope - you just get a notice and that's it - you have to send your licence in to be marked up as well or you commit an offence.


  • #13
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    While the law says you can't appeal, surely you can bring a case to court against the ability of non being able to appeal ?

    I deem it wholey unfair that you can't appeal.


  • #14
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    While the law says you can't appeal, surely you can bring a case to court against the ability of non being able to appeal ?

    I deem it wholey unfair that you can't appeal.

    You can appeal individual points offences, but if those appeals are refused then I don't see why you should be allowed to appeal the 12 point disqualification, you've obviously amassed them all legitimately.


  • #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ottostreet wrote: »
    WHAT?! really? Wouldn't that just mean anyone whos on ten points or so would be better off just going on holidays or stop driving for six months, and just get themselves disqualified just to get themselves a clean licence again?

    Do you know many people who can go on a 6 month holiday or stop driving for 6 months?

    +1 on Cinio's comments about insurance implications of losing license due to 12 points accrued.


  • #16
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,473 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Reloc8 wrote: »
    I'm blushing - you're absolutely right - lazy/crap post by me.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2002/en/act/pub/0012/sec0003.html#sec3

    (Link to S. 3 RTA 2002).




    Nope - you just get a notice and that's it - you have to send your licence in to be marked up as well or you commit an offence.
    I bet some people would say that no letter ever arrived and carry on regardless or go away to Europe and carry on driving.
    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    While the law says you can't appeal, surely you can bring a case to court against the ability of non being able to appeal ?

    I deem it wholey unfair that you can't appeal.
    I would think you would have a fair chance of winning. Only the judiciary should have the power to ban someone.
    -Chris- wrote: »
    You can appeal individual points offences, but if those appeals are refused then I don't see why you should be allowed to appeal the 12 point disqualification, you've obviously amassed them all legitimately.
    Even so, in the UK and other states you are allowed to plead your case of hardship even if you accept the other offences.

    It is an interesting one folks to be sure.


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